Did you mean use by 2007?
I was at my local Coles Supermarket today when I noticed a new supermarket coffee. I sat up and took notice when I saw that Justin Metcalf was the roaster/spokesperson.
The other thing that caught my attention was the pack included a roast date. Now that is a good thing, but unfortunately that roast date was Oct 20th 2006, with a use by date of Oct 20th 2007...
The asking price was $7.99 for 200g ie nearly $40/kg, thats pretty steep for old coffee *:(
I didnt buy any...
edit for date mistake
Did you mean use by 2007?
The only way to get fresh coffee is direct from the roaster.....
I use a roaster here for the emergency "20 people coming over for coffee tomorrow" requests, just when my home roast supplies are low. Their coffee is always really fresh but they are now supplying Supermarkets - with a best before date 6 months hence - and no roasted date to be seen (both at the request of the supermarket chain).... :o
There is one brand Ive found in a supermarket which is locally roasted- has a "roasted on" date - and is generally less than the 3 weeks old (the "life" of roasted beans)...
Even several of the better cafes - which also sell locally roasted beans - generally have supplies that are many months old - in fact the owners of one who attended the same commercial coffee machine course with me was really upset when told their stock of roasted beans should be discarded within a month if not sold..... they admitted having some almost 12 months old!!!
So if you want fresh coffee- the only place is from your local roaster direct (or roast your own - even better ;))
I saw these in coles last week too. I was impressed that there was a roast date but like you it was months old. I an never understand why locally roasted offee is so far from the shelves when its roasted. what does it do for 4 months before being sold in a supermarket?
Either sitting in the warehouse somewhere waiting for distribution or in the reserve stocks at the back of the store waiting for the "old" stock on the shelves to be sold - would be my guessOriginally Posted by muppet_man67 link=1173085905/0#3 date=1173091780
Likewise I looked at some coffee beans in the stupid-market the other day from one of Australias best known celebrity chefs, beautifully presented they were in a clear plastic bag, all puffed up from the heat, and sweating like mad, and 14 months old!
And I thought to myself, jeez... if I turned up to work looking as old and tired as these beans theyd put me out to pasture!
I wasnt looking to buy any supermarket coffee. When I need coffee I tend to roast some of the 60 kgs of green Ive got with my 1kg roaster. I was however surprised to see such a highly respected coffee identity endorsing coffee that had virtually no chance of being used within an acceptable timeframe.So if you want fresh coffee- the only place is from your local roaster direct (or roast your own even better )
I guess Coles made him an offer he couldnt refuse.
Originally Posted by muppet_man67 link=1173085905/0#3 date=1173091780
Well, from prior experience the supply chain is something like this:
1) Roaster can recieve an order which must be shipped immediately, therefore stock of 1 order must be held.
2) Roaster supplies a company who distributes to the supermarket, who also holds 1 order as stock.
3)supermarket carries stock in back and on shelf
if the supermarket orders every month, than you are looking at 2-3 months before it hits the shelf. It is unfortunate but just the way it is.
The trend for the supermarkets these days is moving toward Just In Time supply. Especially when supplying the big 3 - Woolworths, Coles and IGA.Originally Posted by Pioneer Roaster link=1173085905/0#7 date=1173153360
The end game for these guys is they dont want to be holding much out the back in the future.
This approach could work in favour of a product like coffee, but is a bit of a pain for things that really do have a longer shelf life. Soft drinks, frozen goods etc.
Still wont ever beat roasting your own or a good relationship with a roaster!
I bought some stale Diet Pepsi once.
The sweetener goes off.
Pepsi wernt too happy with the warehouse that was holding that stock for so long.
Ive since forgotten as I dont drink it any more but the Pepsi guys taught me how to read their secret codes on the boxes so Id know the manufactured date.
Long story short, the local rep came and picked up the bad stock and replaced it for me with a few cases of really fresh stuff.
Hey I worked for the manufacturers of Pepsi until recently and Ive already forgotten how to read the batch codes :-[ . Rule of thumb these days is it lasts for around a year. So look at the use by and work back.
Diet soft drinks are quite nasty when they pass their use by. The artificial sweetener really does make it rather orrible. And believe me, most of the stuff does not sit in the warehouse getting old. The stuff is made and often on a truck within 24 hours. Especially in Summer.
The supermarkets (mostly driven by Woolworths) have decided the best place to try and save squillions of money is the supply chain. Specifically getting the goods the last 50 meters. I think the stat they rolled out was something like.
50% of their distribution costs occur getting the goods the last 50 meters. So a range of things were being touted.
Holding less stock.
Suppliers to load into the supermarkets own roll cages so they come off the truck and can be rolled right to the aisle in question.
Packing the cage in reverse order to the required shelf stock and so on.
Fascinating stuff for a boring nerd like me!
When I packed shelves at night stock was manually rotated.
A bugger in the drinks aisle.
Ive got some red wine in my wine rack from 1998....Should I call the winery and get them to replace it with some fresh wine?Originally Posted by Thundergod link=1173085905/0#9 date=1173159773
Hehe...I couldnt resist! :P
1998 red wine IS fresh!
Couldnt resist either!
Touche` ;DOriginally Posted by fatboy link=1173085905/0#13 date=1173168793
Youre not wrong. Even when the stuff (or any diet drink) is fresh my SO has to avoid it. Anything with artificial sweetener will give her head spins after just one sip, so much so she has to sit down until it passes. I avoid it too, mainly because it tastes like crap.Originally Posted by fatboy link=1173085905/0#10 date=1173163278
While shopping with my wife yesterday I found myself at the coffee section of the aisle while waiting for her to catch up.
I noticed a few prices of the beans and pre-ground.
The was a large range between the brands.
Any where from about $26kg down to (drumroll...............) $9.99kg.
I thought that was bad enough but then spotted the pre-ground bricks and most were around either $6 or $9 per 200g brick with the exception of one.
The same one that was $9.99 for the kg of roasted.
Its 200g pre-ground brick price was $2.85!!!
Thats not a typo folks.
What hope is there to educate the masses when they are surely tempted to buy at prices like that?
Odds are that some of them dont know any better and will never know any better that theres coffee out there that leaves that stuff for dead.
Some people are happy with it, I guess. Or maybe they cant justify shelling out the big(ish) bucks for a nice home setup, or (more likely) cant be bothered. Perhaps we should organise little stands in the city, and give out fresh coffee thats well made. Surely some would be interested and realise what they are missing out on.
A better idea would be a "strength in numbers" approach -- perhaps a small, but more importantly free exhibition of finer foods by interested amateurs/experts, eg. sourdough, good cheese, vinegar, espresso, etc. Id certainly chip in, as raising awareness is the main thing.
I went into a local coffee retailer to purchase a basket for my daughters Saeco VV, while waiting at the counter to be served I listened to a conversation between a customer who had purchased a fully auto Saeco and had a leak that they fixed, the salesman was telling the client how good this machine was and the quality coffee it produced, he then said that if he purchased 8kg of their special coffee beans he would get a free service (what about the steak knives?). The client asked which coffee was the best, salesman replied the white packet is good but the brown is the best!!! This poor schmuck had probably spent around $2-3gs on this machine when he could have purchased a real espresso machine for the same $$ and be producing amazing coffee.
Sadly people in general accept sub standard coffee because they dont know any better or cant be bothered making the effort, we will all have to do our bit to educate the masses! ::) ::) :-/ :-/
I know when i first started out into coffee i was happy buying those bricks only because i hadnt experienced fresh coffee. A lot of people i think will continue on that path as they love a bargain also. I also wonder what the quality of the beans would be like and where they scource them from.
I agree with you and i also see parallels to mainstream beer and boutique beer.
The general masses are content either to purchase mainstream because they either dont know any better or its a matter of price that relates to their budget or on principal as they believe an item should not be more than $X.
They only way to educate is to keep doing what we all do, show people how good a fresh well made coffee can be, some will still say no and that they prefer instant (like my father in law) and thats fine but it makes them think when you get them to compare it against their liquer or wine selections that they are prepared to spend a little extra on. ;D
People - how do we put up with them ;)
I cant comment on the quality but you reminded me that I read the packet and they were roasted in Australia from imported beans.Originally Posted by 467364663530010 link=1242125632/3#3 date=1242128227
So that price included Aussie labour prices.
:o *:o *:oOriginally Posted by 536F7269636275606863070 link=1242125632/5#5 date=1242138227
I have no idea how they are buying ANYTHING that cheap.
The NY-C puts beans at US$1.2x a pound... circa AU$5/kg and thats low grade at origin before expensive freight, customs / AQIS and brokers fees. *You also assume that the roaster has some expenses too?!?!
Gotta be pretty nasty coffee.
Originally Posted by 49666C71080 link=1242125632/6#6 date=1242140438
I have worked on a project (at a previous job/life) where we roasted coffee for a company putting it on the shelf at $2.50 per 250gm. When you are talking about tonnes and tonnes a week and using 100% robusta at a super cheap price of around $1.75, it is more than possible (although less than palatable).
Would they be using 100% robusta Jason? That would have a kick like a mule wouldnt it? By the way hows the new job going?
In the last month at work i have sold more automatic machines circa $1.5-2K than in the 1/4 before that and in the last week more Nespresso machines than in the 6mths before it. I sold 3 yesterday alone.Originally Posted by 687D6A6A61626E610F0 link=1242125632/2#2 date=1242127872
I explain the difference between machines as we have the ES800 & 6910, also the EM0480/0450 on the shelf next to them and it comes down to ` i just want to push a button`. Yet the brands Like Jura sell less than the DeLonghi which both are at very similar prices, its the Auto Frother that people want.
Its interesting that youre seeing sales go up, obviously people want that buzz and maybe they are investing for home thinking theyll spend less while out, but its the bit Ive quoted that I want to talk about.Originally Posted by 5F7C69697C130 link=1242125632/9#9 date=1242168254
I think it hits the nail on the head. For a lot of people coffee is just a drink with the caffeine kick and they dont care for the nuts and bolts of how it gets to them, from fair trade and consideration of growers up the chain through suppliers, the art of the roasters who put care into blending it for them and the (long suffering) barista at their local, to even now in making it for themselves at home, they just dont care as long as its hot and their for them in the morning.
Cheap and fast is the spirit of this age, it seems, or maybe Im just feeling a bit out of place today. :-/
Yes, 100% Robusta. By the time the supermarket put it on the shelf it was 8-10weeks old. We had enough stock to fill 1 order, and the contract packers had enough stock for 1 order, and the supermarket had 1 order waiting to go on the shelf, and the supermarket had 1 order on the shelf. (and this was fast for them as we are talking major supermarket chains not independents)Originally Posted by 013423217277460 link=1242125632/8#8 date=1242167241
Yes, it tasted awful. Have you tried supermarket coffee in that price range? It all tastes various degrees of awful.
Dont start new job until 15 july. At the moment Im getting everyone trained up for a smooth exit by me.
That is just all kinds of wrong.
What are people drinking?
I once purchased a 1kg bag of beans for $2 (and you thought the stuff within the use by date was stale :o ), and at that stage (sans real grinder) ground it with my magic bullet blender into a powder.
All I can do now is hang my head in shame and thank CS
I guess that an automatic machine will probably make as good a coffee as Gloria Jeans.
I went there the other day and they had beans with a used by date of june 2010.
Also, if you didnt like that yuckie coffee flavour you could get hazelnut flavour, chocolate, vanilla etc
If you dont like coffee ask for a hot milkshake!
Spot on - and most of them get their beans from the supermarket, about 1 in 8 will already buy their beans from local roasters like DiBella , but most have said they buy from the supermarket, i explain the difference in terms of stored beans and roast usage times, but it`s all ` i want it now sort of stuff.Originally Posted by 5850595C565C5A4046350 link=1242125632/10#10 date=1242171945
it`s like the people that buy $20-30 K worth of kitchen appliances, stoves,ovens, dishwashers etc and always eat out because they are so busy!
Just to add some noise to the conversation...
A couple of months ago when visiting my parents in Chile, I went to the supermarket and they had several brands of beans with roasted-on dates. Some were roasted less than two weeks ago.
Needless to say, I was very impressed, especially since in Chile there is not much of a coffee culture. In fact, most people drink instant.
Perhaps, including a roasted-on date is a legal requirement in Chile. Dont know. I guess, that if there was such a requirement here in Australia, then people would automatically tend to buy the freshest there was on the shelf, provided the price looks "fair".
Thats great DanQ, Im heading to Chile (and Brazil, Argentina and Malaysia) in November for my honeymoon and have bought a hand grinder and aeropress for travelling. Glad to hear i can get fresh beans in Chile, at the supermarket of all places! ;D
I have started a friend down the long path of coffee snobbery.
Gave him my old Melitta machine, which produces an ok espresso and okish milk and ran him through how to make a basic coffee. At this stage, he was using preground (plunger grind) freshly roasted coffee (same coffee I use from time to time). Word back from his wife is that he gets up early to make coffee before work, he enjoys it that much.
Have told him that he will need at least an espresso grind to get a better coffee as the shot is wayyyyyyy to fast (as would be expected).
Next step will be the grinder (if I work it right, he can buy mine then I can buy a Mazzer).
Still, he thinks its leaps and bounds ahead of the plunger that he had been making and is "happy" so I guess everyones idea of what is a good coffee is quite different.
I do know that Di Bella do have a stand at the new markets at the top of the Queen St Mall on a Wed. arvo. They arent allowed to do the full espresso set up due to a coffee business situated nearby, but do make coffee with a plunger and pass a few cups around to passers by. I guess thats as good a way as any to spread the word.Originally Posted by 41585F564442505C310 link=1242125632/1#1 date=1242126976
I have found a few coffee lovers at my work who are more than a little astounded when I bring some of my beans in for a try. "Wow, thats even better than the beans I buy at Glorias" seems to be the usual response. I find that most are happy to try the good stuff when I tell them of the differences that Ive found. But as has already been said, there are those who are happy with their ground floor sweepings in a cup. *shudders
I think the key element in coffee appreciation (or any other kind of appreciation) is "interest". A good palate is optional. Like many coffee lovers I am also a wine fanatic. I have never claimed to have a great palate but I have always had a high level of interest in anything I eat or drink. My wife and many of my friends simply dont care as long as something does not taste unpleasant. You can give them great coffee (or food or wine) and it will be wasted because they are simply not that interested. Some have pointed out to me that I have a problem, as they can enjoy mediocre coffee, food, & wine whereas my enjoyment of an occasion is ruined if I have to drink bad coffee or wine. Last week after seeing a show with friends we all trooped off to Maccas (nowhere else open in Rocky at 10.30pm) where they all happily drank big milky "coffees" whilst I watched. So it can be a disadvantage to get people hooked on something as difficult to obtain as great coffee.
IMO the people who dont care about taste are living a fantasy if they also think they "enjoy" what they eat and drink as much as someone who does care and is fussy.
BTW--Do supermarkets actually sell coffee??? Does anything brown and hot therefore qualify as coffee?
Oh my my... I will leave that ALONE :DOriginally Posted by 5B6E797B4B736E717D70781C0 link=1242125632/21#21 date=1242376138
That would bring a whole new meaning to having a sh*t coffee *::) (I just couldnt leave it alone).
It is not a sin to like the good things in life, such as a fine wine or a fine coffee. *Why should one bring their standard down to that of the masses. *Viva Coffee Snobs for educating all.
I suggest the only coffee beans that will be purchased within the next 5 years from supermarkets will be the instant coffee market.... one would hope anyway....)
It goes against all coffee logic.... specialty coffee that is....... and with websites like this... thank god.... more and more people will start to experience what drinking real coffee is like...
However until this day comes... and hopefully very quickly.... it is up to all of us to spread the word and be accomodating with people experiencing real coffee for the first time.... as i believe most coffee snobers are....
We are doing our part by ensuring we have a very strong presence in the retail market.... via education (ie.. roasting warehouse stores.. currently Victoria and soon Adelaide)..... location and even website such as www.coffeecentral.com.au..... where it is freshly roasted and sent direct to your door asap....
Do any of the sponsors send fresh beans overseas? Im moving to Thailand soon and am wondering where I will be able to get a supply from?
Once you get over there, make contact with the local community...Originally Posted by 796D6B6B717D7A7761472A2B180 link=1242125632/25#25 date=1242644060
There has been posts here previously and in Bean Scene and in addition, other mags have often done a special on some of the growers and roasters outside of Australia.
Part of the coffee experience is to embrace the culture... If I was going to stay / live over there for any length of time... I would be doing the same as I do here... pester the local cafes and roasters so that I become one of teh locals...
That way when they rip me off.. They know that I know ;)
Besides... Think of the many local and different types of coffees and preparation you can get into..
Im not sure why Id write this in (and forever more be flamed, condemned as a basket case, etc, etc), but I just had to.
Im relative new at the game (since January), but 700 cups later, I can make and pour nice rosettas (even with my most basic of equipment!). Anyway, I always bought the line on here that supermarket coffee is junk, and Ive always bought mine freshly roasted from Tasmanian Coffee Roasters (after many trials, have settled on dark Columbian).
Anyway, ran out the other day (I get through 250g every 2-3 days, so theres no surprise in running out, eh?!), and it was after hours, so I went to the supermarket. I thought it would be interesting to do it just this once. I usually pay $10 per 250g, and I saw the Vittoria there for the same price, so that seemed silly to pay the same price for <put scowl on face, spit out words with disdain> super-market-coffee... Eventually settled on the 500g of Harris beans - Strong (4 beans out of five, black packet, with green artwork, as I recall) for $10.
Was a little surprised to see that the packet had a breathing valve, and wondered who these beans were pretending to be.
Anyway, got them home, into the grinder and made two cups. Ive got to say, I was surprised. The crema was what I was used to with my "fresh" beans (and yes, I use unpressurised baskets).
After a few more days, I think Im missing my original beans, but Im thinking its more a matter of personal taste that something fundamentally hopeless about the beans. Maybe they were fresh - they were bought from a busy Coles, and wonders of wonders, they had a sticker on the shelf saying when they were put there.
Now, Ive done a professional wine tasting course, complete with blind tastings, etc, and am well aware of what some peoples egos, and bluff will do. You know, some professional show judges dont even get the grape variety right in blind tastings, let alone judge the wine! Google that, eh!
Anyway, Im wondering now what all the fuss about hopelessly crappy supermarket beans is all about? Are we really that far up ourselves?
What do you reckon? Arm the flamethrowers!
Never tried the Vittoria but was tempted the other day. The beans that i was looking at were really oily so I figured they might be reasonably fresh. The aroma was intense and they smelt really good. I didnt buy them for the fact that they are the same price as beans I usually get. I will buy them one day though. I recall about 3 years ago trying some moccona beans. They were alright but also quite expensive. In WA we have the choice also for Braziliano which is roasted locally. The shops that I shop at dont have any variety unless you want ground so limits the options.
Hmmm interesting I am going to do an experiment shorty on some beans I have stored in a cool environment for a few months (been meaning to do it for a while but had forgotten). The plan was to see the difference in the same beans after months and fresh and see the difference. I suspect what I would end up with is a flatter version of what I am used to, not bad just not as good. What you could have there is good beans (not likely for $20kg) stored correctly, or they could actually be fresh (ish) beans. Anyway interesting post (no flamethrowers here) but I will still be staying away from the supermarket.
I agree with Moto to some extent.
I think you may have lucked out on a very recent delivery.
look i am no snob, i try all sorts of beans
i like "Sibonis" singel orgin Pymble
i have had stuff from "the source" Mosman
I got some at "not just bread?" at Crows Nest where they have a small roaster
some from "bay roasters" in neutral bay junction
used to live in Melbourne within walking distance of Veneziano....
but right now i am drinking PRIMO i bought from ALDI
500gm for $6.99
tastes pretty good to me.....
says on the back roasted in wetherill park nsw
has a vent in the bag but no "roasted on"
i am working on my latte art and they have a nice crema so cheap beans and cheap milk mean i can dump more cups in the sink without to much guilt of waste
but as for taste they are not to bad
not sure about bigger supermarket range as i used to work retail and no how long stuff can hang on the shelf years and years :(
I shudder to think of what out of date, low quality [s]floor sweepings[/s] greens they must be using to sell at $2x/kg.... ::)
here they are "show and tell"
i guess this is how they do it (price that is)
hey mister Primo you ordered some more green *coffee beans?
this was on berrys bay SYD 5 mins ago out my window ;)
i suppose some roaters want cash flow and they might sell beans cheaper to "big chains" at cheap prices in bulk bags under "no name brands" and then sell more of the same beans in smaller "pretty brands" bags to retail customers at higher prices?
i dont really know NFI?