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Thread: creama

  1. #1
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    creama

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi all,

    I would just like to get an idea of how much creama CSers are producing when they make their coffee and what machine/technique they are using. Also what blend/bean is best (?? 5%robusta). I currently have a 1group Krups machine and I get about 1mm creama "head". At first I thought this was great, but I hear stories of people getting half an inch of creama. Is that right?? My Krups makes a pretty good coffee but I would love a thicker creama. Is the creama machine dependant.

    Great site Andy. My first post and I am expecting my first batch of CS beans this week.

    cheers

    J&L

  2. #2
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: creama

    Welcome to CoffeeSnobs jimandlet.


    You get more crema from fresh beans.

    I can get 1/2 inch crema from a good shot with fresh beans.

    Where do you get your beans from?
    Do you know how long before you buy them, that theyve been roasted?

  3. #3
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    Re: creama

    Hi TG

    I only use freshly roasted beans (mainly PNG and columbian varieties). I roast twice weekly (dog bowl method) with excellent consistent results, however I only achieve about 1mm or so of creama. Im amazed that people get 1/2 inch creama. im jealous. In the past I have purchased green beans from an online Aussie place. I wont mention the name, as I dont know whether its appropriate (they are not a sponsor of this site) but the beans and the service is pretty good, having said that, they dont really stock much variety. I managed to get some Indian Monsoon in the november poll, Im hoping to blend some in to improve creama.

    As a last resort, i may have to upgrade the old Krups machine.

    cheers

    J&L

  4. #4
    Super Moderator scoota_gal's Avatar
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    Re: creama

    Welcome Jim. :)
    Ive moved your thread to a more appropriate forum. The one you started in is generally used for news etc.

    Crema has been discussed around here heaps. It seems to be something that can vary with atmospheric conditions, machines, technique, freshness of beans etc, etc.

    Dont get too caught up with exactly how much crema you are supposed to have as more importantly, IMO, is taste!

  5. #5
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: creama

    Others know more about the Krups than I.
    Hopefully theyll be along soon to comment on that aspect.

    Yet some others will know more about bean varieties and their crema properties.

    How long after roasting do you use the beans?

    I dont roast my own yet but have oredered my starter pack.
    Ill probably see it tomorrow.

    Another thought in case it makes a difference.

    What grinder do you have?

  6. #6
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    Re: creama

    jimandlet - creme is wonderful stuff but I agree with scootergal its the taste youre after.... but the creme is all wrapped up in the taste too ::) Firstly dont be afraid of robusta- it is a controversial subject but let me tell you when I got my hands on some indian kaapi and pulled a single origin shot with masses of creme- It was wonderful! AND THATS AS AN S.O!! ;D

    But robusta aside- Im wondering if the machine might be at fault because any freshly roasted bean should produce plenty of creme.
    Perhaps a look n the "hardware for sale" section today might interest you... Theres a nice silvia and it would do wonders to your shots... :-?

    Im not an expert on machines though- does yours have a pressurized portafilter?
    I would think that a presurized one would (at least artificially) produce creme.
    Apart from that I really dont know what it could be... Others may have more insight.
    RH

  7. #7
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    Re: creama

    Quote Originally Posted by jimandlet link=1161683944/0#0 date=1161683944
    My Krups makes a pretty good coffee but I would love a thicker creama. Is the creama machine dependant.
    J&L
    Welcome to CS...

    Crema is somewhat machine dependant... but more bean (freshness), grinding and technique (tamping) dependant.

    You say you have a Krups - what model is it? Might give us a better idea.

  8. #8
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    Re: creama

    having just bought some st ali blend X, roasted on the 17th i think, i am getting a good 1cm or so of crema..... it will depend on the glass you are brewing into as well. before i smashed my 30ml/60ml marked shot glass from coffeeparts (dropping the portafilter on a shotglass will do that!!) i was getting about 1/2 cream....the narrow glass made a bigger crema...

  9. #9
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: creama

    What model of Krups do you have? Most of the ones Ive seen use a crema enhancing portafilter, which pretty much ruins real crema. :(


    Java "Whered the crema go?!" phile

  10. #10
    chris002200
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    Re: creama

    I used to have a Saeco VV which had a pressurised portafilter. The crema was always there but not "real" crema. Only about a few mm.

    Since changing machines, now a sunbeam em 6900, I am producing a good 1cm of crema.

    Same beans (5 senses) and grind as before with the VV.

    As mentioned before coffee isnt all about the crema but it certainly does give the "OOO Ahh" factor.

    Try giving all your equipment a complete clean along with the cups / glasses. updose the coffee and keep your tamp uniform.

    Just as an option, have you tried using some beans from a commercial roaster to rule the roasting process out? Just a thought.

    Good luck and let us know how you go.

  11. #11
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    Re: creama

    Hi All,

    Thanks for all the comments.
    Talk about learning something new everyday. It seems that my Krups has a pressurised portafilter. Oh well I had been looking for an excuse to upgrade.

    Speaking of upgrading, Rahzurhed mentioned silvia. Obviously a good machine, but what makes it stand apart from the others. I really dont want to spend more than $1K. Any suggestions

    cheers
    J&L

  12. #12
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: creama

    Quote Originally Posted by jimandlet link=1161683944/0#10 date=1161766574
    Speaking of upgrading, Rahzurhed mentioned silvia. Obviously a good machine, but what makes it stand apart from the others. I really dont want to spend more than $1K. Any suggestions
    Ill let other Silvia owners speak up for their quality and simply direct you to the For Sale section where there is currently a Silvia available at a price that would leave you enough for a matching grinder and still leave you change from your $1k. 8-) ;D

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1161579354

    And another with a nice grinder.

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1161488062


    Java "Redirector Service" phile

  13. #13
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    Re: creama

    Quote Originally Posted by jimandlet link=1161683944/0#10 date=1161766574
    Hi All,
    Speaking of upgrading, Rahzurhed mentioned silvia. Obviously a good machine, but what makes it stand apart from the others. I really dont want to spend more than $1K. Any suggestions
    J&L
    In a word - quality!!

    It is ultra reliable, produces great espresso, produces it with minimum "fiddles" and fuss..... and lots and lots of CS members can attest to its reliability.

    There ARE cheaper (and of course dearer) machines... but value for money the Silvia is hard to beat! And some of the cheaper machines have real reliability issues (at least at the moment!)

    HX machines (which allow you to steam and pour at the same time) are more convenient than the silvia..... but cost quite a bit more!

    For a single boiler machine you wont go wrong if you buy a silvia! ;)

  14. #14
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    Re: creama

    If possible Jim,

    Id recommend talking to anyone or all of our esteemed site sponsors about your needs, budget limits, etc. They are all professionals and there are many members here who have dealt with them over time and sing their praises long and loud. You wont be steered into something that is neither suitable or outside your budget but you will receive the benefit of decades of professional knowledge and experience. Itd be a shame to not take advantage of that :),

    Mal.

  15. #15
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    Re: creama

    Welcome to CoffeeSnobs :)

    A new Silvia is considerable less than $1k - many of our site sponsors can help you and I can personally recommend Cosmorex Coffee. Also, if you look in the Coffee Hardware for Sale section of these forums, there are a couple of second hand Silvias for sale, one including a Rocky grinder for around the same price as a new Silvia alone.


  16. #16
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    Re: creama

    Quote Originally Posted by jimandlet link=1161683944/0#10 date=1161766574
    Speaking of upgrading, Rahzurhed mentioned silvia. Obviously a good machine, but what makes it stand apart from the others. I really dont want to spend more than $1K. Any suggestions
    The silvia has a commercial, 58mm portafilter, which means that (a) you can put a larger commercial basket in it than the stock basket and, so, get more coffee in and (b) the portafilter retains heat very well indeed once it is up to temperature. It also has a steam wand that is is relatively long and has a proper tip on it, rather than the turbofrother that many machines have, which makes it almost impossible to get decent microfoam out of them. The boiler seems to be relatively large compared with other similar machines, with the result that it is possible to get a massive amount of (wet) steam out of the machine. The machine is exceptionally simple internally. Basically, it seems to have been cobbled together from cheap standard parts that rancilio had lying around, such as a really crappy commercial group head. This means that with proper cleaning, TLC and replacement of the wearing parts there is no reason why your grandkids couldnt potentially still be using it.

    That said, there are plenty of down-sides to the silvia. Many people feel that it is necessary to "temperature surf" it in order to get the water temperature within the ballpark of what we would like to brew our espresso at. That means that water needs to be run through the boiler to cool it down, so that you are starting from a repeatable point, then the thermostat kicks in the boiler element. Once the boiler element has finished heating, the water is too hot, so it is then necessary to wait a bit. This means that it takes a bit more time to brew a shot. One misconception is that the silvia needs to be temperature surfed to be acceptable and other similar machines do not. Id imagine that most similar machines would exhibit the same temperature variation ... its just that there is a vast bulk of writing on the internet about silvia and temperature ... in other words, silvia owners tend to be concerned about such things. Then there is the waiting time from brew to steam. Unfortunately, here, too, the operator really needs to know what theyre doing. The way that the machine is intended to work is that the steam thermostat is engaged and that starts the water heating to produce steam. When the element (and the indicator light) goes off, you start steaming. If you do that, you will have a blast of very powerful steam that will then dribble down to a pathetic hiss. My preferred way of doing it is to start steaming with the element on, so that the steam thermostat keeps the element producing more steam. This results in heaps of pressure, even compared with some of the more expensive prosumer machines, although the steam is a lot wetter than with those machines.

    How good a silvia is is a question that can only be answered relative to what else you are comparing it with. Compared with anything else in the price bracket that you mention, it has a lot going for it. Compared with prosumer machines like the Maver Marte or the Giotto, it is pretty bad .. but such machines cost multiples of what the silvia costs. Unfortunately, we arent yet in a position like that in the US, where the prosumer class of machines is a lot cheaper.

    The new "dark horse" is the sunbeam EM6910. There seem to be a few people who are fans of the previous model, the EM6900, despite having multiple machines fail on them and new ones replace them. I dont know what the quality of the milk coming out of the new machine will be like, but if sunbeam has learnt from the guinea pigs that bought the EM6900, it might be a bit more of a convenient machine than the Silvia. Another machine in the price bracket is the ECM Botticelli, which seems to be very similar to the Silvia on paper.

    I hope that I wont be repeating everyone ad nauseum and boring you buy saying that the grinder is more important than the machine. I have used both the Rocky and the Mazzer Mini with my Silvia and there is no doubt that the shots from the various Mazzers that I have had were A LOT better than from the Rocky. Also, with the stepless adjustment on the mazzers I was able to dial the extraction in exactly how I wanted it, rather than having to work within the limits of what the Rocky gave me. The Compak K3 Elite seems to perform similarly to the mini for a few hundred dollars less, but it has a motor that is a bit less powerful. Hopefully the new doserless K3 will arrive soon, at a hundred or so less than that again. That said, the current best value grinder, IMHO, is probably the Iberital Challenge.

    Lastly, it took me a lot of effort and experimentation to be able to make great coffee on the silvia (and even then, its inconsistent). Given that some people are amazed since day one, it might just be that Im setting the bar ridiculously high by comparing the silvia to commercial machines, but I still think that even those people would agree that getting some proper training will skip you ahead several months in the learning curve.

    ... hope thats of some use,

    Luca


  17. #17
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    Re: creama

    Ha, you just love posting that picture, dont you Luca! ;)

  18. #18
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    Re: creama

    Quote Originally Posted by scoota gal link=1161683944/15#16 date=1161901034
    Ha, you just love posting that picture, dont you Luca! ;)
    Guilty!

  19. #19
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    Re: creama

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    well it is artistic at a number of levels. . .



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