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Thread: Ristretto Doppio Ristretto?

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    Ristretto Doppio Ristretto?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Had coffee training the other night and the teacher showed us her way of *making a D.R. *She let the 1st drop of espresso pass the cup and go down the drain. I was shocked...until all I could taste was sweet sweet crema. She explained the 1st tiny tiny drop of espresso is very dark and unpleasent, and to experiment letting this drop pass. Who has tried this and who thinks its a no go?

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    Re: Ristretto Doppio Ristretto?

    Renzo loves that over at at Di Bartolis.

    I reckon theres some merit in it somewhere. Personally not how I roll, but I havent really given it a chance. Itd be interesting to do a side by side evaluation. Just add it to the list of tests to do hehe

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    Re: Ristretto Doppio Ristretto?

    In my experience, it tends to help with dark overroasted stuff and when the beans are well past peak....but then I dont drink that stuff.

    I reckon not necessary with great beans and good technique but nevertheless, a good experiment to try....

    2mcm

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    Re: Ristretto Doppio Ristretto?

    Ive heard it done.

    Such an easy test to do too (cant believe that I havent got round to it). Drop it onto a teaspoon then capture the remainder in 3 separate cups. See if you can see what each portion contributes to a complete pour.

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    Re: Ristretto Doppio Ristretto?

    Worth trying with a naked PF. It could be enlightening to see whats going on.

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    Re: Ristretto Doppio Ristretto?

    Its got my vote - seems to take a lot of the bitterness out.

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    Senior Member redzone121's Avatar
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    Re: Ristretto Doppio Ristretto?

    Ill give it a go.

    CB

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    Re: Ristretto Doppio Ristretto?

    Letting the first bit go was a trick I used when I worked in cafes in the 90s seemed to make a nicer coffee. Will have to check it out to see if it holds with fresh beans and good technique.

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    Re: Ristretto Doppio Ristretto?

    When I started work at a cafe in Darwin I was trained to skip the first few dark drops when pouring an espresso/ristretto. But since Ive been making coffee at home its never crossed my mind - could be an interesting experiment though...

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    Re: Ristretto Doppio Ristretto?

    Yup, did it when I first started drinking real, fresh coffee as part of the experimental phase to determine the stages in coffee extraction, and also still do it for people who are quarter-strength please.

    Definitely reduces the acidity from the first part of the pour. When doing it for people who are occasional coffee drinkers, or new to espresso, I usually let nearly the whole first second of the pour go, catch the sweet mid-section and stop well before blonding.

    To use someone elses idea (I cant remember whose), use a spoon handle. Wave it under the pour a three or four times during the pour at specific times and taste each section. Youll pretty soon find out why people do this kind of ristretto. Yum. And if you use a bottomless PF at the same time, youll have a great head-start on the visuals.

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    Re: Ristretto Doppio Ristretto?

    its interesting because instaurator in his book claims this as a Data Free Observation and thinks the beginning few drops of the pour are the most flavoursome.
    in my experience the first few drops add body to an espresso or ristretto because they are so dense with coffee oils. but you could probably call this a DFO as well :-/

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    Re: Ristretto Doppio Ristretto?

    I was out for dinner with my karate master tonight and decided Id try the coffee on offer.
    Italian restaurant, food was good, everyone else ordered the coffee, why not?

    I asked for a doppio ristretto, "No problem" was the reply.

    When my coffee finally arrived, it didnt look right.
    The guy next to me got a short black delivered at the same time.
    However, mine looked like.....half a long black (Americano).
    The waiter took it away, checked with the "barista" and brought it back.

    I then described to him what I was after and off he went to give it another go.

    What came back was the right amount of coffee in an espresso cup.
    The taste was OK but there was no crema and no body or mouthfeel to the liquid.
    If I was a cynic Id say they managed to pour the original coffee into a new cup.

    Have I gone mad (dont even think about it)?
    In what world is a doppio ristretto a short long black?

    Has anyone else seen something like this arrive at their table?

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    Re: Ristretto Doppio Ristretto?

    WBC competitors never let the first drops pass...so im guessing its a no no? or maybe because they get marked down on dirty drip trays?

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    Re: Ristretto Doppio Ristretto?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5F637E656F6E796C646F0B0 link=1232489232/11#11 date=1234015316



    I then described to him what I was after and off he went to give it another go.

    What came back was the right amount of coffee in an espresso cup.
    The taste was OK but there was no crema and no body or mouthfeel to the liquid.
    If I was a cynic Id say they managed to pour the original coffee into a new cup.

    Have I gone mad (dont even think about it)?
    In what world is a doppio ristretto a short long black?

    Has anyone else seen something like this arrive at their table?
    I took my mum out for a coffee last year, found a great looking cafe and ordered mum a cap and an espresso for me. Mums cap looked ok, milk was froth etc but normal for most cafes, but to my amazement my "espresso" came in a 200ml capo cup and was half full, Americano yes, espresso no....but on looking at the young coffee maker behind the machine, the doser full to the brim with stale grounds I drank my long black vowing never to return. :( :( :(

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    Re: Ristretto Doppio Ristretto?

    Quote Originally Posted by 30253232393A3639570 link=1232489232/13#13 date=1234387339
    Quote Originally Posted by 5F637E656F6E796C646F0B0 link=1232489232/11#11 date=1234015316



    I then described to him what I was after and off he went to give it another go.

    What came back was the right amount of coffee in an espresso cup.
    The taste was OK but there was no crema and no body or mouthfeel to the liquid.
    If I was a cynic Id say they managed to pour the original coffee into a new cup.

    Have I gone mad (dont even think about it)?
    In what world is a doppio ristretto a short long black?

    Has anyone else seen something like this arrive at their table?
    I took my mum out for a coffee last year, found a great looking cafe and ordered mum a cap and an espresso for me. Mums cap looked ok, milk was froth etc but normal for most cafes, but to my amazement my "espresso" came in a 200ml capo cup and was half full, Americano yes, espresso no....but on looking at the young coffee maker behind the machine, the doser full to the brim with stale grounds I drank my long black vowing never to return. :( :( :(
    I usually ask for a doppio ristretto as I am under the assumtion that if the coffee is bad it should make it a little better (blonding, I have been told, is the start of bitterness, due to extracting acid, not oil. Enough commas?).

    Doesnt this go against the idea of letting the first drops go?
    Maybe this idea works on machines with no preinfusion?

    It is also funny/sad when the "barista" has a blank look in his/her eyes when you ask for one.
    I think that the order of learning to make coffee on an espresso machine should be;
    1. espresso (short black)
    2. Ristretto
    3. doppio ristretto
    4. THEN cafe latte

    Thats when I realise that ordering a doppio ristretto to minimise the chance of a bad coffee is pointless (and realise Im going off topic!)
    If a barista doesnt know what a doppio ristretto is, its likely to be bad.
    If a barista does know what a doppio ristretto is, its more likely to be good!?!?

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    Re: Ristretto Doppio Ristretto?

    Quote Originally Posted by 7D7E6C6C687E661F0 link=1232489232/14#14 date=1234393809
    If a barista doesnt know what a doppio ristretto is, its likely to be bad.
    If a barista does know what a doppio ristretto is, its more likely to be good!?!?
    In my case they appeared to know what I was asking for when I placed my order, so theres no guarantees what youll get.

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    Re: Ristretto Doppio Ristretto?

    Quote Originally Posted by 292A38383C2A324B0 link=1232489232/14#14 date=1234393809
    It is also funny/sad when the "barista" has a blank look in his/her eyes when you ask for one.

    Usually a good time to say, "Umm, actually Ill have tea."

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    Re: Ristretto Doppio Ristretto?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5F637E656F6E796C646F0B0 link=1232489232/11#11 date=1234015316

    I think that the order of learning to make coffee on an espresso machine should be;
    1. espresso (short black)
    2. Ristretto
    3. doppio ristretto
    4. THEN cafe latte
    too true, but the fact is, that prob around 90% of coffee orders are milk based, maybe 1% is for a doppio ristretto, so cafe owners train staff to pump out something resembling a milk based drink. i also presume that most cafe owners themselves dont know what doppio anything is... :-[

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    Re: Ristretto Doppio Ristretto?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3509140F050413060E05610 link=1232489232/15#15 date=1234394610
    Quote Originally Posted by 7D7E6C6C687E661F0 link=1232489232/14#14 date=1234393809
    If a barista doesnt know what a doppio ristretto is, its likely to be bad.
    If a barista does know what a doppio ristretto is, its more likely to be good!?!?
    In my case they appeared to know what I was asking for when I placed my order, so theres no guarantees what youll get.
    Thats the same with the coffee truck that comes to my workplace. Knows what a doppio is but still tastes like battery acid.

    I worked as a field tech for a long time. 90% of the venues had espresso machines. 99% of the staff who worked on the machine had never heard of a ristretto. Oh the stories I could tell! :(

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    Re: Ristretto Doppio Ristretto?

    Quote Originally Posted by 322F2B2E2525400 link=1232489232/17#17 date=1234395827
    Quote Originally Posted by 5F637E656F6E796C646F0B0 link=1232489232/11#11 date=1234015316

    I think that the order of learning to make coffee on an espresso machine should be;
    1. espresso (short black)
    2. Ristretto
    3. doppio ristretto
    4. THEN cafe latte
    too true, but the fact is, that prob around 90% of coffee orders are milk based, maybe 1% is for a doppio ristretto, so cafe owners train staff to pump out something resembling a milk based drink. i also presume that most cafe owners themselves dont know what doppio anything is... :-[
    Sad isnt it.
    You think that you should get the basic right first.

    Correct me if I am wrong but the base for a strong cafe latte is a doppio ristretto?
    I have heard both, double shot (60-80ml) from a 14-18g basket or a double ristretto (30-40ml) from the same basket. The latter came from a very good barista who knew his stuff.
    So, therefore shouldnt a "barista" know how to do a doppio ristretto?

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    Re: Ristretto Doppio Ristretto?

    In most cafes the base for a strong latte is "that button" from a single basket!!! :o So call that what you like!!! I would agree that a doppio ristretto should be the base for a strong latte but dont hold your breath.

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    Re: Ristretto Doppio Ristretto?

    i would suggest it depends on the type of coffee, age of coffee and of course the last one.... your personal taste....

    if the group is cleaned perfectly, the coffee is not too old (past 21 days) and the roast is not dark... then you should not have much bitterness.... again this will depend on the beans used... as some will naturally be more bitter than others...

    a little bit like using beans straight from refrigerated storage compared to air temp... the cooler beans will always taste smoother....

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    Re: Ristretto Doppio Ristretto?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1D213C272D2C3B2E262D490 link=1232489232/11#11 date=1234015316
    I was out for dinner with my karate master tonight and decided Id try the coffee on offer.
    Italian restaurant, food was good, everyone else ordered the coffee, why not?

    I asked for a doppio ristretto, "No problem" was the reply.

    When my coffee finally arrived, it didnt look right.
    The guy next to me got a short black delivered at the same time.
    However, mine looked like.....half a long black (Americano).
    The waiter took it away, checked with the "barista" and brought it back.

    I then described to him what I was after and off he went to give it another go.

    What came back was the right amount of coffee in an espresso cup.
    The taste was OK but there was no crema and no body or mouthfeel to the liquid.
    If I was a cynic Id say they managed to pour the original coffee into a new cup.

    Have I gone mad (dont even think about it)?
    In what world is a doppio ristretto a short long black?

    Has anyone else seen something like this arrive at their table?
    ]
    Opal Cove Coffs Harbour many years ago/ Asked for a short Black and got a small cup of brewed coffee / Took them to task and they drove a short black out of Coffs harbour 10 minutes by taxi. told them that was shite as well. They did try but sadly failed..

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    Re: Ristretto Doppio Ristretto?

    Not meaning to be rude, but why not just as for a "Double ristretto" instead of "Doppio Ristretto"? Whenever the rare customer comes in asking for a Doppio Ristretto, almost always with a smug look on their face (waiting for the blank look on ours in return), we simply roll our eyes and repeat back to them in plain Engish "one double ristretto coming up".
    For those Baristas who dont know what a double ristretto is, then theres buckleys chance of them knowing what "Doppio" means.

    SC64

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    Re: Ristretto Doppio Ristretto?

    Isnt a double ristretto when they push the brew button twice on the same grounds? :(
    Greg

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    Re: Ristretto Doppio Ristretto?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1C293E3C0C3429363A373F5B0 link=1232489232/24#24 date=1234439580
    Isnt a double ristretto when they push the brew button twice on the same grounds?
    Greg
    ;D ;D ;D

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    Re: Ristretto Doppio Ristretto?

    Quote Originally Posted by 7167626273717D74747777120 link=1232489232/25#25 date=1234477357
    Quote Originally Posted by 1C293E3C0C3429363A373F5B0 link=1232489232/24#24 date=1234439580
    Isnt a double ristretto when they push the brew button twice on the same grounds?
    Greg *
    ;D ;D ;D
    What ..... I thought that was a Long black :-/

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    Re: Ristretto Doppio Ristretto?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4B5B2E2C180 link=1232489232/23#23 date=1234437017
    Not meaning to be rude, but why not just as for a "Double ristretto" instead of "Doppio Ristretto"? *Whenever the rare customer comes in asking for a Doppio Ristretto, almost always with a smug look on their face (waiting for the blank look on ours in return), we simply roll our eyes and repeat back to them in plain Engish "one double ristretto coming up". *
    For those Baristas who dont know what a double ristretto is, then theres buckleys chance of them knowing what "Doppio" means.

    SC64
    Then why not ask for a restricted double short black? Or a single shot from a double basket?

    Both the doppio and ristretto are italian words.

    Having said all that I have always asked for a double ristretto, I have yet to ask for a doppio ristretto! ;)
    If the Barista doesnt know, I ask for them to put a double basket into the group head and push the single button. :-[

    This is really going off the original topic isnt it?

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    Re: Ristretto Doppio Ristretto?

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    recently i went to a campos vendor in the city, normally i just ask for an espresso but knowing that campos usually provides training i ask for a ristretto.
    What came out was the right volume for a ristretto, but there were marks on the cup were an espresso had been. ie. an espresso was poured and then half of it was thrown out! :o



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