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Thread: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

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    12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    When did a "regular coffee" become a 12 oz? It is becoming more and more common from my customers. I am pointing the finger at GJ and Maccas, when will consumers realise that bigger isnt better!!!

  2. #2
    Super Moderator scoota_gal's Avatar
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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Well, ever since I started and before at my current workplace, they have to my knowledge always had a 12oz as a regular and a 16oz as a large. And seeing as Ive been there for three years, its been like that for a while at least.

    I dont like the 8oz takeaway (though we have used them for our mobile machine) as I reckon that theyre a bit of a rip off...a 12oz is a perfect size for a takeaway imo...

    We charge 3.80 for a 12oz and 4.30 for the 16oz, incase that was going to be your next question... ;)

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    as long as the coffee/milk ratio is kept the same, this is good. too many places use the same amount of coffee for an 8oz as they do for 12oz and just add more milk, or they extract more water through the grinds and you end up with bitter lattes etc.

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    Senior Member Pavoniboy's Avatar
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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    I do get put off when I order a double shot flat white and the cafe worker with a huge smile (as if theyre about to make my day) holds up a porcelain bucket and says I could make you a big mug if you want. Noooo thanks, I would like a double shot flat white, not two (or three) flat whites in a bucket...we have some shocking cafes where I am from...they really are bucket size!

    I think a good range of sizes is best.

    And dont even mention the size of the coffee cups on NCIS on television! Who could drink that much of anything!

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Yep I have noticed this too, and I also think GJ, Maccas, $tarbucks etc are to blame for this.

    IMHO 16oz is stupid. its close to a godamn pint of milk!!!

    A double shot in a 16oz cup would be way way too weak methinks. Do people actually want to taste the coffee in australia?? Or do they just like warm milky drinks?

    Single shot in 8oz and double in 12oz seems to be a good enough balance. scoota gal, do you guys serve a single shot in the 12oz cup?



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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Quote Originally Posted by 506B746C6176040 link=1233898662/4#4 date=1233901254
    Single shot in 8oz and double in 12oz seems to be a good enough balance. *scoota gal, do you guys serve a single shot in the 12oz cup?
    The balance is out with this one as you double the coffee but only add 50% to the milk so you have changed the ratios.

    20 24 oz cups seem to be the norm on NCIS, for it to taste right you would need 4-5 shots of coffee!!! But it would be cold by the time you get near the bottom!!!!

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Yeah it is out a bit - ratio is small at 1:8 vs large at 1:6.

    But it just seems like its the common thing to do. 16oz is really, really big! Would it fit in the car cup holder?

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6358475F5245370 link=1233898662/6#6 date=1233902730
    Yeah it is out a bit - ratio is small at 1:8 vs large at 1:6. *

    But it just seems like its the common thing to do. 16oz is really, really big! *Would it fit in the car cup holder? * *
    Yep fits in mine and love it when they make TWO, off one shot....


    Ummmm Great tasting coffee er er I mean hot milk :o

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    unfortunately or fortunately we are seeing that many cafes are opting for 12oz only for takeaway...

    i agree with the comments made so far.... a. it depends on the clientele... b. you need to get the ratio right or forget about it c. vote with your feet...

    my preference...... coffee in a cup in a store, enjoying the ambience and artistry that is involved.....

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Quote Originally Posted by 7342554C4D4A414C5A230 link=1233898662/3#3 date=1233900654
    I do get put off when I order a double shot flat white and the cafe worker with a huge smile (as if theyre about to make my day) holds up a porcelain bucket and says I could make you a big mug if you want. Noooo thanks, I would like a double shot flat white, not two (or three) flat whites in a bucket...we have some shocking cafes where I am from...they really are bucket size!
    I am too afraid to ask for a double shot out where we live --> in fear of what we will get.

    Often they just hit the button a second time and let the water pour through the spent puck - there you go - a double shot!!!! *<yuk>

    No wander coffee tastes so much better at home ;D

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    On the other side of the coin, as a fairly regular consumer of take away lattes, I always get the large or jumbo (I guess 12 oz or 16 oz) because it lasts longer back in my workplace. Youll probably all take after me with a large cricket bat, too, because I usually ask for it to be Extra Hot.

    Yeah, I know, Im an heathen, but its still better than making an instant back in the office, nest pas?

    Ive always gone for the largest for as long as I remember and it actually pre-dates my (now long gone) days of Maccas or GJs. I was doing it about 10 years ago when I travelled down to Sydney for meetings on a monthly basis and when I went to a cafe under the building at our Head Office. I would sometimes have so many of these during one day that, by the time I went back to my motel room at night time, I couldnt sleep! I needed them to get through the meetings, though... :-? They always used a double shot in the larger cups, though, so they didnt skimp on coffee:milk.

    Cheers
    Di

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Quote Originally Posted by 290E180A12610 link=1233898662/10#10 date=1233905566
    ..... I usually ask for it to be Extra Hot......

    Cheers
    Di
    :o Hoyks!,

    PLEASE buy a sipper traveller and get them to make your coffee in that!

    A milky coffee held at correct temperature is much better than a vulcanised coffee allowed to cool.

    oO(cardboard milk with complimentary skin...EWW)

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Mmmm A double in 12 oz is weak to my taste triple baskets needed as to 16oz time Starbucks went home !!! As to Coffee volume my 12 oz (3cup Syphon berw) in the mornings is just perfect :)

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    :-? 12oz / 16oz ???

    In case anyone else couldnt picture the sizes in question *:-[ , *the conversion is: 1 fluid ounce is appx 28.5ml. *
    So 12oz is 342ml & 16oz is 456ml.

    -Carrie *:)

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Quote Originally Posted by 032E05222B2B26470 link=1233898662/8#8 date=1233903820

    my preference...... coffee in a cup in a store, enjoying the ambience and artistry that is involved.....

    Agree........ on the subject, I notice that lots of people now ask for takeaway cups even though they are staying in to drink. Its not just where I work either.......is this another GJ thing??? Most say they just like it that way - a few reckon that it stays hotter longer, each to their own, but I dont really get it. :-?

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Quote Originally Posted by 68456E4940404D2C0 link=1233898662/8#8 date=1233903820
    my preference...... coffee in a cup in a store, enjoying the ambience and artistry that is involved.....
    I absolutely agree, coffee tastes better out of ceramic and enjoyed not just consumed. Mind you my customers dont have that option unless they bring their own.

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Quote Originally Posted by 0A312E363B2C5E0 link=1233898662/4#4 date=1233901254
    Yep I have noticed this too, and I also think GJ, Maccas, $tarbucks etc are to blame for this.

    IMHO 16oz is stupid. its close to a godamn pint of milk!!!

    A double shot in a 16oz cup would be way way too weak methinks. Do people actually want to taste the coffee in australia?? Or do they just like warm milky drinks?

    Single shot in 8oz and double in 12oz seems to be a good enough balance. scoota gal, do you guys serve a single shot in the 12oz cup?

    16oz is a crazy size that is for sure, however, we have customers who just love that size! Yes, they probably do like only warm milky drinks with about half a ton of sugar in them. Yes, it makes me cringe. Yes, they make us money. Yes, the customers want them! So...who am I to tell them they cant have them!?

    Single shot in the 12oz and I still get people asking me to cut back on the strength! Double shot into the 16 oz is how I make them...

    I think that our coffee is a pretty strong dark roast. Not my favourite at all really, hence why we have a second Mazzer grinder to put through coffee that we like to showcase. I get a lot of requests for Espresso Wow of course! ;)

  18. #18
    Super Moderator scoota_gal's Avatar
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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Quote Originally Posted by 664B60474E4E43220 link=1233898662/8#8 date=1233903820
    my preference...... coffee in a cup in a store, enjoying the ambience and artistry that is involved.....
    Amen Di Bella! 8-)



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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Quote Originally Posted by 624F64434A4A47260 link=1233898662/8#8 date=1233903820
    ... my preference - coffee in a cup in a store, enjoying the ambience and artistry that is involved ...
    Ahh, sorry Phil but a groovy chic feel about a cafe with choice music resonating in the background, AND a pretty fern on my latte just doesnt cut the mustard.

    Surely thats peripheral ... Im paying for whats in the cup, not the managers choice of design/music or a baristas flick of the wrist after texturing.

    Like moto, Im a mobile op ... repeat business depends on my brew, and consistency, and not so much about ambience. Unlike shop fitouts, where the counter is a barrier, my customers stand by me/watch/interact, and gratefully get involved with what Im doing as a barista.

    THATS rewarding, because they learn as I show & teach, and that in turn keeps me on the boil ... it also educates a usually indifferent consumer that making a delicious cup is not just about pressing a button.

    The nature of my op avoids the lipstick stains on the rim or residue tannins marking the interior of the cup ... all too often, thats been my ambience in cafes because the idiots dont know basic dishwashing practices.

    After 6 years of operating, Ive never had the need to resort to 16oz t/a - its actually a logistical pain in the arse, because it would require firstly a 40ml doppio ristretto from a double pf & then a single ristretto added separately via a single. If youre adamant about quality, you can see the probs.

    Moto, its a long way around addressing your question mate! ;D

    But, being in the like field, I can say that ...

    An 8oz t/a has as the base 20ml of espresso via a double pf of 16-20grams packed. Thats a true ristretto, IMHO.

    A 12 oz t/a has the same compacted version in the double pf, but extracted longer as a doppio - ie 40-50ml.

    A 16oz t/a ... forget it.

    BTW, all my t/as go with a lovely rosetta, before I put the lid on ...

    :)











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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1D2833343E15341E3F373B343E5A0 link=1233898662/18#18 date=1233972939
    Quote Originally Posted by 624F64434A4A47260 link=1233898662/8#8 date=1233903820
    ... my preference - coffee in a cup in a store, enjoying the ambience and artistry that is involved ...
    Ahh, sorry Phil but a groovy chic feel about a cafe with choice music resonating in the background, AND a pretty fern on my latte just doesnt cut the mustard.

    Surely thats peripheral ... Im paying for whats in the cup, not the managers choice of design/music or a baristas flick of the wrist after texturing.

    I disagree. A good coffee in a real cup which you can sit down and enjoy in a nice place will always beat the same quality in a takeaway cup.

    I also think the ratios dont necessarily have to stay the same when the coffee gets larger.

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Ive often wondered if (many) people actually like coffee at all.

    I make my coffee with 19 gm of beans giving a 25ml ristretto, and topped with steamed milk to a total of 100ml!!

    Thats a 4 oz latté for those on non-metric measures!

    Interestingly, when my friends come round, they rarely ask for it any other way.

    Greg

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Quote Originally Posted by 577A51767F7F72130 link=1233898662/8#8 date=1233903820
    vote with your feet...
    exactly!
    I only go to a place where coffee and atmosphere suit me. And its not a secret, most of the places that sell coffee are not particularly good for an average coffee snob. So I dont care if those guys sell single shot with 400ml of milk. Someone will buy it, but then again, someone will also buy coffee at Maccas.. who cares about them
    I guess cafe owners should cater for all sorts of customers and its fine, as long as they make proper drinks, not only hyper-super-muggaccinos with sprinkles on top of cream on top of ice on top of cinamon stick dipped in strawberry yogurt...

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Where I work, we call the 8oz small or regular. 12 oz large and 16 oz extra large. Prices are $3, $3.60 and $4.80 respectively. The cost of the small is too cheap imo....

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    My local cafe sells a small coffee for $2.50 - decent stuff too.

    I cannot fathom how anyone could drink so much milk, I my "regular" is just a shot with an equal amount of steamed milk (whatever you call that :P)

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6650585C59595A5B350 link=1233898662/23#23 date=1234264493
    I cannot fathom how anyone could drink so much milk, I my "regular" is just a shot with an equal amount of steamed milk (whatever you call that Tongue)
    Mezzo-mezzo (half/half)

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    my regular is a single shot of espresso poured slightly short with nothing else - so should I ask for a single oz when out?

    p

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Just another couple of data points...

    Where I work, we have "Small", "Standard" and "Tall".
    Small = 8 oz takeaway, 9oz ceramic, single shot (~8g)
    Standard = 12 oz takeaway, 13oz ceramic, double shot (~16g)
    Tall = 16oz takeaway, 19oz ceramic, 1.5 double shots (8g + 16g)

    90% of our coffees are drunk in the cafe (in ceramic - sorry to use that term, which has been Hudsonised!).

    And yes, you did read correctly; Talls are 19oz. EVERY SINGLE new customer who orders a Tall makes a comment when theyre given their drink... "whoa, now THATs a coffee!" or "geez, its a bloody soup bowl!" - dont know how many times a shift I hear those words...

    Frankly, a pint is a stupid amount of coffee. For the Imperially impaired, its about 550mL, people... I made myself a mere Standard the other day and was milked-out by the time Id finished it. Dont know how people cope with a pint of milk! In which case I agree with you, moto!

    On the other hand, our coffee:milk ratio is good. Ive fiddled with the volumetrics so that our shots are slightly shorter than usual - say 50mL per double shot - and that seems to be just right. Also gives some leeway for some of the other baristas who dont care about their shots!

    FWIW, at home I drink either a double shot (generally ristretto) in a 250mL cup or half a double shot in those funky brown 5-6oz (160mL) cups.

    Cheers
    Stuart.

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    19 oz, :o ouch, I just couldnt drink that much milk and enjoy it my limit is 12 oz before it gets too much. Each to their own I suppose.

    I hope you charge accordingly for the 19oz with the 1.5 doubles the time taken to make the drink makes it annoying when things are busy.

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Ive worked in a place where our biggest cup was 20oz, we put 3 shots of coffee in that (90mls). We only sold them very rarely though. We started calling the 12oz regular simply to try and get more money out of customers (owners idea not mine). I was instructed to not display the small and only sell it if the customer specifically asked for it.

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Me I would love to sell small all day, I can make 2 small (8oz) with the same milk, coffee and a little extra from the extra cup in about the same amount of time and charge $6 instead of $4.50. Smells like extra profit to me.

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Dont you people know? Less is more!

    Piccolo latte should be the standard.

    No wonder they say Australia is the fattest nation on earth.

    -ACog (very confused)

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Hey guys,

    moto - I forgot to mention prices. Small = $2.95, Standard = $3.80, Tall = $4.50... seems about the same and the prices you mentioned. I totally agree though; I cant stomach that much milk.


    ACog - I agree, less is more. For me, that means balancing the coffee-to-milk ratio as well. I hate when the first thing I taste in a coffee is milk, but I also dislike piccolos. Thats a personal thing, obviously, but I dont think the regular regular will ever be a piccolo...

    Cheers
    Stuart.

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Sorry to revive an older topic, but as a self-employed barista who is sensitive to what people want, I must say that I hate the growing expectation of the 12oz regular. 8oz is perfect in my opinion. 12oz - 2 shots for a large and a 16oz only if the customer beggs me (3 shots too, i wont serve mildy flavoured milk unless asked)

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    Senior Member Luke_G's Avatar
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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Im with you mega!

    I only stock 8oz and 12 oz cups at work @ $3.50 and $4.00 with 1 and 2 shots respectively.

    Die hard coffee lovers take the 8oz but most go for the 12. I rarely get asked for a 16..maybe 1 in 100?

    I recently made a trip to Sydney and Canberra where finding an 8oz cup was impossible and i refused to pay $4.50 for a half full 12oz.

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Revisiting this topic for me 1 year later is interesting.

    I find the 8 oz T/A lack flavour balance...the 12 oz just right and the 16 oz grossly oversized.

    Given the choice of 8 oz, 12 oz and 16 oz; most consumers will choose the 12 oz. This is great for cafes as:

    1) They make more money. When comparing cup sizes customers will probably be like "8 oz is too small, 16 oz is way too large, Ill take the 12 oz."
    2) Has a better flavour balance than the 8 oz.

    12 oz FTW (unless its a 3/4 poured 8 oz :P)

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Interesting too as I am doing my first large session in a few weeks time.

    Single shot in 8 oz will optional :P . Shot and 1/2 the norm and doubles in 12s and doubles in 8s for me :) and I am not doing buckets either ;)

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Quote Originally Posted by 74737778707A6F7F7871160 link=1233898662/35#35 date=1266749951
    Interesting too as I am doing my first large session in a few weeks time.

    Single shot in 8 oz will optional *:P . Shot and 1/2 the norm and doubles in 12s and doubles in 8s for me *:) and I am not doing buckets either ;)
    same here, got 200 8oz takeaway cups, really looking forward to it! :)

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Who finds these topics!? ;D ;)

    Interesting alright, David to read old stuff like this.

    Yep, were still flogging 16 and 12 oz sizes off though. (somethings dont change!) But again, were using a very strong flavoured coffee, which has quite a bit of dark roast included in it and so the drinks dont taste watered down at all in a 12 oz.

    Dont ask me about the 16oz because even I refuse to drink from one!

    However, I also keep hearing about how the Sydney crowd are going for a milder brew rather than stronger, so I guess I can see why youd be wanting to have smaller sizes or double shots in the 16oz sizes.

    I bought one of those Keep Cups in the 8oz size the other week and there must be something in the illusion of what you see as I could swear it was the same size as a 12oz...anyway, Ive been testing it out to see if it will be a good product to sell to our regulars as a replacement to the paper cup. So far it seems pretty good and has all the right things going for it...like looks, feel and ease of cleaning. My only concern was if the plastic was going to end up tainting the coffee but only time will tell on that one I think.

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    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Hmmm, very interesting... I know at GJ we have small, regular and large being 8oz, 12oz and 16oz (for hot drinks, colds are bigger)... and 1, 2, and 3 shots of espresso respectively in each...

    so the ratios for a flat white would be (rounding up 1 fl. oz to 30mls, and keeping in mind this is all in approximation, ie the cup wouldnt actually be filled to the brink, but for calculation purposes)

    Small= 30ml shot : 210ml milk (1 : 7)
    Regular= 60ml shot : 300ml milk (1 : 5)
    Large= 90ml shot : 390ml mik (1 : 4.3)

    Interesting! Has there ever been an optimal ratio devised within the espresso community? Juuuust curious! ;D ;D ;D

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Quote Originally Posted by 756F6B6968756D3E74060 link=1233898662/38#38 date=1266757928
    Interesting! Has there ever been an optimal ratio devised within the espresso community? Juuuust curious

    World Barista Championship Rules:

    "2.2.2. Cappuccino
    A. A Cappuccino is a beverage of ratios, producing a harmonious balance of one (1) single
    shot of espresso, steamed milk and frothed milk.
    B. A traditional cappuccino is a 5 to 6 ounce / 150 to 180 ml beverage.
    C. A cappuccino should be served in a 5 to 6-ounce / 150 to 180 ml cup with a handle.
    D. Any additional toppings, spices or powdered flavourings are not allowed."

  41. #41
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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Quote Originally Posted by 23243F37302225510 link=1233898662/39#39 date=1266762156
    producing a harmonious balance
    Hmm a harmonious balance??? I thought we agreed (or that its been said) that there is no balance of ratios in a cappuccino, as the shot is only 30ml, and the rest is going to be however much milk and froth...

    I guess what i was referring to was: has there ever been a ratio devised in which there is an amount of milk added that really brings out all the flavours of the espresso shot?

    But now that i think about it thats just silly to think that there is (regarding milk-based coffees), drink a shot of espresso, thats the optimal ratio ;D

    Quote Originally Posted by 23243F37302225510 link=1233898662/39#39 date=1266762156
    D. Any additional toppings, spices or powdered flavourings are not allowed.
    Wow, its interesting that no powders are allowed! I like that, just so it doesnt cover up any important details...

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Quote Originally Posted by 716B6F6D6C71693A70020 link=1233898662/40#40 date=1266836360
    Wow, its interesting that no powders are allowed! I like that, just so it doesnt cover up any important details...
    From what I understand, its the traditional way.

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    Re: 12 oz as a regular coffee?

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by 6973777574697122681A0 link=1233898662/40#40 date=1266836360
    I guess what i was referring to was: has there ever been a ratio devised in which there is an amount of milk added that really brings out all the flavours of the espresso shot?

    If you look at the WBC rules then you can do the math! (Only allowed one shot of espresso) However, what you will also hear referred to is 1/3 espresso 1/3 steamed milk and 1/3 foam for a cappuccino. Now the numbers just dont add up and as Luca has pointed out in the past this possibly has to do with the height and not actual volume in a tulip cup! You are really looking at a volume ratio of 1:2:2.




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