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Thread: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

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    Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Query: I have a small pizzeria - been trying to convince customers that good plunger coffee is an acceptable alternative to espresso...often people just laugh...customers ( especially the over 50s) love their cappucino after a meal *...and as we run small staff that all do many tasks and already very busy ( answering phones / making pizzas/waiting tables) we feel like no one can spare the 15 minutes for example it may take if a table of 10 all want cappucino * ..and Im the one who can make good coffee ( barista experience) - and as Im the pizza maker on busy nights Im often the busiest * ...... a colleague told me the other day that a busy coffee cart in the cbd expresses the shots earlier and just squirts them into cup and only has to do the milk " live" *...Im trying to work out if this is viable and if not why not..had a few failed experiments. obviously cups would have to be heated. To be honest It doesnt have to be superb coffee just good coffee . I only have a small cheap breville machine but i can make a good coffee in it using fresh beans

    ...what do you guys think...uphill battle...possible? ..pitfalls ? *any advice appreciated

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Given that it takes about as long to pour the shot as it does to texturise the milk, I dont understand how refrigerating the espresso beforehand would be of benefit.

    Regarding the busy coffee cart guy, I really think thats just a sloppy, unprofessional way of conducting business. You either serve espresso or you dont.

    From my perspective, plunger takes longer to prepare than an espresso. Though if youre intent on the idea, perhaps you could convince your customers by offering this to them freely as a limited time promotion?


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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Hi,

    I use refrigerated double shots in my Iced Coffees at home and while the rate of Crema disapation seems to slow in the fridge it is all but gone after an hour. Taste quality is a bit hard to determine as the icecream and milk masks any sublteties. If I saw this being done I to make hot drinks wouldnt ever ask for another ;)

    A few other options you could consider maybe is a Bunn or similar style drip brewer, these take less coffee/cup so production costs are way down and the brewing is automatic and it can be kept hot for a while without much loss in quality. Generally these will give a better result than plunger. Other options include stove top syphons which range from 9-12 cups and only need 3-4 minutes for the entire brew process, but there is a little art in the production so these may not suit.

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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Sounds dodgy. If I ordered coffee and saw the guy get the shot out of the fridge, theres no way I would be parting with my money.

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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Hi grapsta, Im squirming at the thought of espresso coming from the frig. I think most of your clients go for the pizza, if you havent got the capacity to serve good espresso why bother.
    I think you either dont serve coffee or get a decent machine and staff it with someone capable, if the coffee is good turnover should increase and cover the extra running costs. Just my two cents worth.
    cheers gm

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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    You could solve all your problems and just tell your customers that you only do instant coffee...then they wont bother you with this at all.

    I say this because youre only using a cheap domestic machine in a commercial venue??

    Seriously, if you had a proper commercial machine in your shop, then I have no doubt at all that making coffees would take no time whatsoever for 10 people, if this is the case. However, using a small domestic appliance which can only do one thing at a time is of no use to you, in that environment.

    Along with our two group Brasilia, we have a good Iberital LAnna and of late, we have been using it to do our coffees whilst our big machine is away getting serviced. It is a one group machine that can steam and pour coffee at the same time. Only just yesterday, I did 65 coffees on it. It cost us around 3 grand but is a worthwhile investment that has just about paid for itself. (we also use it for functions.)

    Seriously, if you have proper equipment in your place, then it is easy enough to train your staff to make coffees on. And believe me, even they will do better than pre making shots and steaming milk.

    Keep your customers and spend the money by getting proper equipment. Using domestic appliances in a commercial situation just doesnt cut it if youre truly passionate about providing the best for your clients...or are you more concerned with the money?

    IMPO, if customers want something, generally they are prepared to wait. And if your shop has the whole package, then I am sure that theyre not about to race out the door to go home. Customers come because they like what you have. They leave because they dont like it. Do yourself a favour and keep your customers by serving up what they like...

    Im with the other blokes too. If I saw someone making coffee that way, Id not be having it either.

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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    :oSomebody please out this place so I can be sure I never go there....

    Honestly grapsta, would you apply similar logic to the pizza process?

    You could bake them all during the day and then just reheat them for a couple of minutes in the oven prior to serving..

    Please just dont serve coffee if this is the best you guys can do....

    2mcm

    PS- Coffee rule #1. If you cant spell it, you shouldnt sell it....;)

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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Yeah i think that you either get serious with the coffee or dont do it at all. If you have good quality pizza and quality coffee it will increase your business anyway. Good profit in both. Or you could put a big urn on a bench with a sachets of instant and just let them help themselves.

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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    is it really that bad? Not that I have ever done it, but I would have thought it would come out average but acceptable? I cant imagine it much worse than the usual coffee I am served at most cafes (even though they have thousands of dollars of wquipment!). But how could you steam 10 caps quickly on a breville?

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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    The steamed milk is just as important - if youve got people trained to do that well and fast, they should be able to handle doing a shot of coffee fresh too. If you cant invest the time in a decent machine and training the staff, refrigerating the shots isnt going to save you much time, and its certainly not going to give you decent results!
    The sort of customers who really like a pizza followed by a coffee will be unhappy with the coffees you serve and wont worry about coming back! If its coffee they want after pizza, give them the real stuff, or they will just go somewhere else next time.

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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Mate if it was anything like the Breville i used to have you would have made and eaten ten pizzas in the time it would to steam ten caps

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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Scoota gal is right on the money.
    Correct and appropriate equipment will go along way to quality output.
    Using a domestic machine in your scenario is like me trying to run the IT server infrastructure for a $60M company on a home PC.

    Just wont work, no win situation for company and clients.

    Perhaps start out with a 2nd hand unit and/or a demo unit of an acceptable machine from one of the site sponsors.

    Mal

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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    ok I didnt quite explain myself well.... I only sell plunger coffee in my restaurant. I have a breville that I make coffee with upstairs in my house but downstairs in restaurant only plunger !. People ask all the time if we do coffee...when we say yes we do plunger they dont want to know about it ( someone told me their friend wouldnt come bakc becuase we didnt do coffee ???!!!)...those who do try the plunger usually like it as we buy good fresh coffee and know how to make a decent plunger coffee I think ....but most people want capucino. I can make really good coffee on my breville ( well FW / latte/ caps anyway) but no way do I have the time or staff time to bang out 8-10 cups in heat of the night rush. If there was a way to heat up 4 cups of coffee for example with the steam wand and then do milk and add it would save heaps of time....but if their is no way of making good coffee this way I wouldnt think of selling crap coffee...no ones actually told me the science of why this wont work. Ive actually been offered a free commercial machine..but if i dont have time to make coffee i dont want a machine sitting there for customers to see...would rather keep pushing the plunger - much as Id love to have a commercial machine in my shop ( and house ! )

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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    ..some more points :

    we are a small and new restaurant - 30 seats max...just starting to break even when the crash happened..now were struggling but crawling back slowly..thi means staff is minimal. some days we do $300 ! some days $1500 ...so we have to keep staff at bare minimum...my girlfriend/partner should just be waiting tables and doing phones...but now she has to help make pizza as we cut back to survive - so when a table of 8 or 10 on a busy night order a coffee - especially on a unexpectedly busy night when understaffed ( happens on the odd very welcome weeknight) it can throw a spanner in the works ( and plunger is way faster than espresso when your making for that many - boil one lot of water etc etc ) so to be honest theres no way at the moment we could do espresso unless there was a way of doing it quicker.

    .......and scoota girl - 2 points : " if people really want something they are prepared to wait" .. you gotta be kidding - have you ever worked hospitality - Im guessing not. people are impatient. very. especially in Sydney. and the funny thing about coffee in restaurants is people will wait 20 mins or whatever for entrees and again for mains but for some reason they expect their coffee straight away. not sure why....although to be honest the sort of people who mostly ask for coffee are 55 yr plus couples -especially when in groups - and theyre the demanding ones. ( ps - we also sell veal parma /schnitz and the like which is what these customers eat)
    ..and second point - " more concerned with the money?" ..nope. if i was id can coffee altogether ...coffee in cafe is a big earner - not in most restaurants....if I made great espresso coffee here I reckon Id sell about 5 -25 cups a week ( with plunger its 2 - 10) ..thats not an earner ! ..and Id sure many good restaurants dont do coffee because theyd rather turn the tables over...coffee makes people hang around for an extra 30 mins on their $3.50 cup . ....but. I love coffee - and can make it pretty good..so I would like to give my customers a good coffee to finish a great meal of nicely

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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Quote Originally Posted by 1F40584E454E424B4B4848404C432D0 link=1240105425/6#6 date=1240121269
    :oSomebody please out this place so I can be sure I never go there....

    Honestly grapsta, would you apply similar logic to the pizza process?

    You could bake them all during the day and then just reheat them for a couple of minutes in the oven prior to serving..

    Please just dont serve coffee if this is the best you guys can do....

    2mcm

    PS- Coffee rule #1. If you cant spell it, you shouldnt sell it....;)
    Are you serious ? I havent sold coffee like this - instead Ive come on a coffee website to get feedback about the process and see if its viable or not...how does that make me worthy of your boycott ?

    ..and anyways - do you never frequent restaurants that do good food but not as good coffee...Im not a cafe ! I am trying to make the best Pizza in Sydney....where as my coffee targets as not so lofty - I just need to make it good. and my definition of good is pretty high..not by coffeesnobs standards perhaps but certainly of a standard that my customers will be satisfied . *


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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Relax, grapsta... Im pretty sure that the place 2mcm was talking about wasnt your place but the coffee stand with the cold coffee stored away. * 8-)

    By the way, coming to a website called coffee snobs is probably the wrong place to get info like this as the people here are friendly, but also looking for the perfect coffee. *The best way to find out would be to put a few shots in the fridge yourself, heat the milk and test it out and see if its ok to serve to customers... hope all goes well and best of luck with your business! * :)

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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Maybe you should look into a fully automatic machine that grinds beans and does your milk for you. (never thought id recommend one) as things pick up. This would be quicker than plunger. Maybe someone who has used one could chime in here and validate whether they are good for this number of people. I think at your stage this would be ideal. One of the sponsors could help you with this.

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    Super Moderator scoota_gal's Avatar
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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Quote Originally Posted by 2F3A29383B3C29480 link=1240105425/13#13 date=1240150044

    .......and scoota girl - 2 points : " if people really want something they are prepared to wait" .. you gotta be kidding - have you ever worked hospitality - Im guessing not.
    Grapsta...

    You guessed WRONG...

    I do work in hospitality...have worked in it for a very long time.

    Im sorry youre working with impatient Sydney people. So, youre telling me that they wont wait for you to make pizza or a coffee? Well, theyre probably customers you dont want anyway, I reckon.

    Have you thought about taking their coffee orders when you take their pizza orders?

    You know, I dont know what your experience is in this game but you tell us some pretty basic information and we can only go on that. Even what you say about how you currently run your staff has got me puzzled because I have friends who run restaurants that only have two staff...the chef and the waiter and they seat 40 people. Everyone gets served and also gets great coffee...

    Maybe you need to go to a few other businesses and see how they are doing it...

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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    .....
    Quote Originally Posted by 4F5A414E4E5B5C4D5A280 link=1240105425/15#15 date=1240151961
    Relax, grapsta... Im pretty sure that the place 2mcm was talking about wasnt your place but the coffee stand with the cold coffee stored away. * 8-)

    * :)
    ....oh - . to be honest when my friend told me of a coffee stand doing that i found it hard to believe...those carts in cbd usually make good coffee - they have to - theres so much competition. Ive been meaning to go and check them out...maybe it was for an iced coffee

    have thought about automatic machines....If I had a grand Id buy one...although guess the 2-3 grand ones are really the go

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    A_M
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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    grapsta

    I just read All the posts and depending on where you mind set was... I can see how some of the comments may or may not been taken the way their meant..

    I guess the issue for people who are passionate about coffee, is about doing it right and short cuts only where the true coffee essence is not compromised..


    The issue I see is that not all the variables have been taken into account...

    1: You Coffee equipment is not meant for more that a few people in a row..
    2: The proposed effort to pre pour and then store and then steam and then serve is NOT cost effective or efficient. *It also introduces any number of unknowns..
    3: You pre do 10 shots, but 20 turn up 4 coffee or You do 10 and only 5 want coffee
    4: Having to refill ever couple of steams...

    A machine not unlike this one http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1239776171 would be a step in the right direction...

    Thus any of the so called time restrictions are covered off.

    1: Will steam much quicker
    2: Will allow you to steam and pour at the same time..

    I could go on... But I wont...

    The other point is that if people ask how you do your coffee and or think your cutting corners in one area... Their thoughts will be that may be you also cutting corners in other places as well...

    Coffee is not your main focus... *But it is a complement to great Pizzas etc so give it some level of importance in the pizzeria.

    AM






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    TC
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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Quote Originally Posted by 76637061626570110 link=1240105425/18#18 date=1240184436
    .....
    Quote Originally Posted by 4F5A414E4E5B5C4D5A280 link=1240105425/15#15 date=1240151961
    Relax, grapsta... Im pretty sure that the place 2mcm was talking about wasnt your place but the coffee stand with the cold coffee stored away. * 8-)

    * :)
    ....oh - . to be honest when my friend told me of a coffee stand doing that i found it hard to believe...those carts in cbd *usually make good coffee - they have to - theres so much competition. Ive been meaning to go and check them out...maybe it was for an iced coffee

    have thought about automatic machines....If I had a grand Id buy one...although guess the 2-3 grand ones are really the go
    Hi grapsta,

    Pizza and coffee go together. If you have a good business, shell out for an espresso machine or if you must, align with a company which will provide "free on loan" and hopefuly will provide you with decent quailty beans. You will pay, just more slowly.

    The issue as I see it is not the time factor, its training. You do everything and your staff are just gophers, no? *:-?

    FWIW, I dont see this as a good business model. You get ill, hit by a bus or simply need a night off? Then what?

    I have run a number of successful businesses and the mantra is make yourself redundant mate. Then you will have well trained staff who can fall into any role in your business as required. You are sitting on a ticking time bomb....

    Have someone come out to visit you or better still, pay to send your staff to a good training course so that everybody can make a very good cup.

    You will make good margins on both the pizza and the coffee that way.

    Business #101 as I see it ;)

    2mcm

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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Quote Originally Posted by 227D657378737F767675757D717E100 link=1240105425/20#20 date=1240185048
    The issue as I see it is not the time factor, its training. You do everything and your staff are just gophers, no? *:-?

    FWIW, I dont see this as a good business model. You get ill, hit by a bus or simply need a night off? Then what?

    I have run a number of successful businesses and the mantra is make yourself redundant mate. Then you will have well trained staff who can fall into any role in your business as required. You are sitting on a ticking time bomb.....


    2mcm

    no its not training its time...I think I said somewhere that everyone multi tasks. have chef and kitchen hand who also *does back up *deliveries when necessary. upfront is my girlfriend and me who are both run off our feet on busy nights doing phones,dough,pizza,tables. once business jumps we can get separate dough guy or 2nd driver which will free up my girlfriend to do coffees...but that could be a while off..so *I was just thinking if there really was a way to heat pre expressed ( is that right?) coffee with steam wand then I could do it myself....despite what many of you have said this would save loads of time...could do 4 or 5 at once..then froth milk for 4 or 5. no one has told me what will happen during this process that will spoil the coffee. I will experiment with it and if it isnt acceptable i wont serve it. As far as the machinery goes as I said Ive been offered a free commercial machine - but only if Im going to pay to get it hooked up to plumbing and actually use it

    ...I understand your point about making yourself redundant and no doubt thats a good way to build a business model...but its not my way. My role model is *Pizzeria Bianco rather *than *Crust or Pizza Hut ....I do have emergency back up from business partners who run another restaurant...but theres plenty of people who start small businesses who simply cant really take sick days for first couple of years..Im okay with that...havent had many sick days in last 10 years anyway. .....besides its hard to find people who have the same concern that every pizza comes out perfect...another reason why I wont be training the non coffee drinking kitchen staff anytime soon to make coffee

    appreciate all the advice though. thanks

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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Perhaps then, youre just 1 staff member short.

    Everything you say sounds good and I appreciate the dough process as a friend runs a place in Melbourne which won Epicure pizzeria of the year. If youre aging them, that takes time...

    Get rid of the domestic machine and do it properly- even if you do need to go down the free on loan route or lease or whatever. You will find the milk texture process is much faster and can be completed in the time you pull the shots.

    Just as a domestic oven wont cut it for pizza, I think that you need a 2 group machine. Perhaps there might be a passionate CSer or two around who would like a bit of part time a little later in the evening when coffee time arrives...Worth a thought *:-?

    Seems you dont want to cut corners with the pizza. At least do good coffee. Its profitable, will help sell desert lines, grappa/limoncello etc (If you do that) and will help you to grow and complete your business.

    I cant think of how many great food experiences I have had where the last memory of the evening was awful coffee. Some of those were enough to ensure that I never returned.

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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Quote Originally Posted by 500F17010A010D040407070F030C620 link=1240105425/22#22 date=1240255058


    Just as a domestic oven wont cut it for pizza, I think that you need a 2 group machine. Perhaps there might be a passionate CSer or two around who would like a bit of part time a little later in the evening when coffee time arrives...Worth a thought *:-?
    I cant think of how many great food experiences I have had where the last memory of the evening was awful coffee. Some of those were enough to ensure that I never returned.
    I think this is good advice too Grapsta. There are plenty of Passionate people willing too volunteer or accept minimal wage to do coffee.

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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    2much coffeeman your right - we are 1 staff member short...but it will stay that way for little while as too many quiet nights when everyone is standing around or going home early ( I could roast , grind and make coffees on these nights ;) )

    ...see this is the thing with training staff to make coffee...you can pay $100 for a 1 day course to teach your wait staff to make a good coffee...but you cant teach them the passion to make sure every coffee they make on a busy stressful night is a good one - theyre waiters not barista....thats why Id really rather do the coffee myself .... and I think for this reason its a bit harsh to not return to a restaurant that gave you good food but bad coffee ...although admittedly they should be endeavoring to be good at everything

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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Hi

    Quote Originally Posted by 62776475767164050 link=1240105425/24#24 date=1240278918
    ... theyre waiters not barista....thats why Id really rather do the coffee myself .... and I think for this reason its a bit harsh to not return to a restaurant that gave you good food but bad coffee ...although admittedly they should be endeavoring to be good at everything
    Not to return to a restaurant that gave bad coffee, but good food though, is what people do - harsh or not. I had a very nice hamburger at a Mittagong place on my way back from Wombeyan but they made the espresso and I could see it sitting there waiting ... when it was delivered there was no crema at all and it tasted flat. I wont be going back as that coffee was as important as the meal - its a single experience for a consumer.

    I dont know your staff but maybe they could be interested in serving good coffee. Giving them training will make them feel wanted and valued and if they are good they will try and maintain the coffee standards set in their training. (PS Is the Breville visible to customers !)

    Mike

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    A_M
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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Quote Originally Posted by 5A4F5C4D4E495C3D0 link=1240105425/24#24 date=1240278918
    and I think for this reason its a bit harsh to not return to a restaurant that gave you good food but bad coffee .
    I go out to enjoy the WHOLE experience... There are many places I will not return to due to ONE part of their service being well below par..

    It shouts at me that they are not interested in ME, but THEIR bottom line...


    A local place down the road does some good meals, but I do not suggest to any one to go for a meal, but only TakeWays at best.. The coffee is drip that has sat all day and they use a wisk to try to make frothy milk and pass it of as something else.. I wonder if the special sauce is a bulk purchase and frozen as well ???

    They miss out on sit down clients and that great Atmosphere.. Another place, a bit further, does not do so good with teh food.. But the service is great, the smiles light the place up and the coffee is not bad...

    Other places on either side; offer cheaper food, specials etc and while I have tried them... I dont bother to go back..

    I am older, have some disposable cash and know what I want... I want the whole package, not just what some one else thinks I should have...

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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Quote Originally Posted by 53465544474055340 link=1240105425/24#24 date=1240278918
    .... and I think for this reason its a bit harsh to not return to a restaurant that gave you good food but bad coffee ...although admittedly they should be endeavoring to be good at everything
    I disagree grapsta,

    Apathy kills businesses and if you dont bite the bullet, it will ultimately kill yours too when someone sees an opportunity to outcompete you by doing what you do, but better.

    You want to cut corners here, so I cannot but wonder where else?? :-?

    Good luck....because I suspect youre going to need it...

    2mcm

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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    I think the key to it here is either do it properly or better to say you dont.

    My local pizza place runs a machine that gets used by the waitressing staff and they do a better than average job, the girls in particular have been at this place for over 3 years and their method is consistant which is the key. This is in a small country town and at a venue that seats anything from 2 to 40+ at a full house. I am happy to finish off a meal and leave them some more $ even though I have enough gear at home to open 2 coffee shops :) Tony the owner of the business never goes near the machine.

    There is a fish and chip customer of Andys from Torqauy in Victoria that only does coffee when he is on the machine to maintain consistancy, there is nothing wrong with that either if your patrons get used to that.

    Some of my favourite haunts in Lygon St in Melbourne you would order coffee at the end of the meal and ask for a Grappa or a Port generally this would bring the owner out with the bottle for a quick chat and a thanks for the meal and our patronage.

    My idea of a good coffee to finish off a good meal is important and doing it in a half baked manner is best left alone. You will loose more than you gain done poorly.

  30. #30
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    My turn to chime in.

    I generally dont drink coffee after a meal so it wouldnt bother me if you didnt offer it.
    I think I was conditioned a long time ago to expect bad coffee at restaurants so I just dont bother.

    grapsta Im a process auditor (so you know my qualifications) and I have worked in hospitality.
    I even used to manage a Pizza Hut in my younger days so know what its like to do 300+ orders of multiple pizzas plus sides on a State of Origin footy night when the rush is so fast you cant think you just do.

    Ive been waiting to try a pizza joint that has a very good reputation for the food but left it to the last minute and didnt book.
    I was happy enough on this occasion to order take away just to sample the food.
    Ill go back and try the table service to see what a full service dining experience is like.
    However they also have a rep for being "pizza nazis".
    They have "Rules" posted on the wall.
    Things like "NO half and half", "NO pineapple" etc.
    The rules dont stop the place being packed out every night.

    I see the answer to your problem, given what youve said, is to not offer coffee until you feel the business can afford the time.
    Then do it properly.

  31. #31
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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    At the risk of disagreeing with our more venerable members, 95% of restaurants I go to I simply wouldnt order coffee - but 95% of the general populus would, even if it wasnt at "coffeesnob standard".
    You guys are projecting your views on coffee to the general populus, which really isnt indicative of how the public will react.

    If I go to a pizza place, I want good pizza. If I order a coffee and its bad I wouldnt order another, but it wouldnt stop me coming back for another pizza if it was good. Cut the guy some slack, hes asking how he can prepare coffee quickly - if he wasnt concerned about quality, hed just go ahead and do it, rather than asking enthusiasts if it was viable.

    One response I read above was interesting - offering one free plunger coffee for each person dining in could be a way to bring them around to what you have available, with a minimal cost to yourself. A one week promo may even bring in more customers if its marketed well.

    Good luck!

    Grant

  32. #32
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Quote Originally Posted by 407C617A707166737B70140 link=1240105425/29#29 date=1240290141
    However they also have a rep for being "pizza nazis".
    They have "Rules" posted on the wall.
    Things like "NO half and half", "NO pineapple" etc.
    The rules dont stop the place being packed out every night.
    I think people enjoy this sort of experiential thing; bragging right and all that - like going to France and expect to be insulted by the waiters in French.

    I also dont usually have coffee after a meal but if someone said to me, "you really must try the coffee here - its second to none", Id make an exception.

    Asking people in a forum called "Coffee Snobs" about what sort of coffee should be served, you would expect the sort of responses that you have seen. If I go to a pizza joint, then the quality of the pizza will get me back there. If the coffees not good, I wont order coffee.

    What sort of patrons do you attract? If they usually visit the pub before they visit your pizza shop then quality of the coffee probably wont matter.

    What sort of patrons would you like to attract? If you would like to attract a more discerning customer then a plunger is not good enough but this sort of customer probably doesnt often choose pizza as a cuisine.

    To answer your original question, I think your customers have already answered it and they are always right. Get yourself a good machine and serve them a proper cappuccino.

  33. #33
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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Quote Originally Posted by 2D3922252C2E142F3C2E27272E394B0 link=1240105425/30#30 date=1240291877
    If I go to a pizza place, I want good pizza. If I order a coffee and its bad I wouldnt order another, but it wouldnt stop me coming back for another pizza if it was good. Cut the guy some slack, hes asking how he can prepare coffee quickly - if he wasnt concerned about quality, hed just go ahead and do it, rather than asking enthusiasts if it was viable.
    exactly - thanks . Ive always stated that Im not prepared to serve bad coffee...just trying to find out if its possible to speed up the process in this way. Most of the people who ask for coffee are far from being coffeesnobs

  34. #34
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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Quote Originally Posted by 0B544C5A515A565F5F5C5C545857390 link=1240105425/27#27 date=1240283742
    Quote Originally Posted by 53465544474055340 link=1240105425/24#24 date=1240278918
    .... and I think for this reason its a bit harsh to not return to a restaurant that gave you good food but bad coffee ...although admittedly they should be endeavoring to be good at everything
    I disagree grapsta,

    Apathy kills businesses and if you dont bite the bullet, it will ultimately kill yours too when someone sees an opportunity to outcompete you by doing what you do, but better.

    You want to cut corners here, so I cannot but wonder where else?? *:-?

    Good luck....because I suspect youre going to need it...

    2mcm
    your being a tad cynical I reckon...Im trying to speed up a process so its viable..but Im researching to see if it can be done with an acceptable quality level...thats hardly apathetic . Most people running restaurants are constantly trying to find ways to speed up the service .


  35. #35
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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Quote Originally Posted by 6E7B68797A7D68090 link=1240105425/32#32 date=1240307756
    exactly - thanks . Ive always stated that Im not prepared to serve bad coffee...just trying to find out if its possible to speed up the process in this way.Most of the people who ask for coffee are far from being coffeesnobs
    All the big boys such as maccas, Hungry Jacks etc are always looking at ways to speed up the process from cooking and serving food and making coffee, and the only way to do that is by automatic machine. press a button and wait. I know that doesnt fit your budget grapsta but thats the quickest way in my opinion.

  36. #36
    TC
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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Im gonna open a cafe with Roburs and Synessos or FB80s wall to wall and serve microwaved Pappa Guiseppe pizzas as my food offer...

    Anyone wanna come? *;) :P ;D

  37. #37
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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    In this sick world you may just get a following there.

  38. #38
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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Just make the pizza. Work out about what time people start ordering coffee and ring a mobile van tell him to park out the front, and make coffee as your customers are leaving. That way you can plonk some more bums on the seats to eat the pizza. Then take a cashy kick back from the mobile coffee van sitting out the front. Everyones happy then.

    PS. Make sure its not the idiot selling cold shots.


  39. #39
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    When I go out with friends for dinner, if they want coffee its usually back to my place.

  40. #40
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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Quote Originally Posted by 102C312A202136232B20440 link=1240105425/29#29 date=1240290141

    However they also have a rep for being "pizza nazis".
    They have "Rules" posted on the wall.
    Things like "NO half and half", "NO pineapple" etc.
    The rules dont stop the place being packed out every night.
    well half and half is a pain in the ass ..and not traditional

    ....and pineapple to a pizza snob is like robusta beans ( or reheated shots by the looks ;) ) to a coffeesnob

  41. #41
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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    [QUOTE=202A3F2828273335460 link=1240105425/31#31 date=1240292782]
    Quote Originally Posted by 407C617A707166737B70140 link=1240105425/29#29 date=1240290141

    What sort of patrons would you like to attract? If you would like to attract a more discerning customer then a plunger is not good enough but this sort of customer probably doesnt often choose pizza as a cuisine.
    rich people and foodies eat pizza too. ..plus the whole reason I started doing plungers was after reading pro -french press articles in coffee mags and websites....but try selling punters on the idea of this being an acceptable way to drink/serve coffee. one day. Anyways - guess Ill just keep trying with the plungers

  42. #42
    TC
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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    ...and Ill stop feeding the trolls. Suggest we all do likewise ::)

    Thread referred to mod team.....

    2mcm

  43. #43
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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    what you wanna lose my thread down?. jeez Im just asking questions.

  44. #44
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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Smells like toast? Italy praises perfect espresso
    4 days ago

    ROME (AFP) ó Seventy million cups a day, or 2.92 million cups an hour, or 48,600 per minute, or 810 per second. No matter how you count it, Italians do love their espresso coffee.
    And on Friday, Italys first-ever national espresso day, they were reminded by no less an authority than the National Italian Espresso Institute what makes the perfect "caffe".
    "An espresso must have a light, finely textured, noisette-coloured foam, and its colour must be uniform," the institutes president Gianluigi Sora told AFP. "Its aroma must be that of grilled bread."

    To explain as much, 350,000 pamphlets setting out the golden rules of espresso went out to 3,500 coffee bars, including one that stipulates that a barista must fill a 25-millilitre cup in 25 seconds -- no more, no less.

    Not overlooked was the cappuccino -- an espresso topped with hot milk and a steamed-milk foam that must, according to the pamphlet, be freshly made for each and every cup.

    Based in the northern city of Brescia, the National Italian Espresso Institute is an industry group founded in 1998 that is committed to "safeguarding the philosophy of espresso".

    I am done.

  45. #45
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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Quote Originally Posted by 6B444D4F58674B444B4D4F474F445E2A0 link=1240105425/43#43 date=1240358758
    Smells like toast? Italy praises perfect espresso
    4 days ago

    ROME (AFP) ó Seventy million cups a day, or 2.92 million cups an hour, or 48,600 per minute, or 810 per second. No matter how you count it, Italians do love their espresso coffee.
    And on Friday, Italys first-ever national espresso day, they were reminded by no less an authority than the National Italian Espresso Institute what makes the perfect "caffe".
    "An espresso must have a light, finely textured, noisette-coloured foam, and its colour must be uniform," the institutes president Gianluigi Sora told AFP. "Its aroma must be that of grilled bread."

    To explain as much, 350,000 pamphlets setting out the golden rules of espresso went out to 3,500 coffee bars, including one that stipulates that a barista must fill a 25-millilitre cup in 25 seconds -- no more, no less.

    Not overlooked was the cappuccino -- an espresso topped with hot milk and a steamed-milk foam that must, according to the pamphlet, be freshly made for each and every cup.

    Based in the northern city of Brescia, the National Italian Espresso Institute is an industry group founded in 1998 that is committed to "safeguarding the philosophy of espresso".

    I am done.

    Well done!

  46. #46
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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    hang on...coffees supposed to smell like toast ???

  47. #47
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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Gday Gapsta!

    Welcome to CoffeeSNOBS

    Have a look around. Notice anything compared to other internet forums?
    I do.
    This is from another forum site;

    ďSince i,ve been on this website i,ve lost count of the anount of artists(solo) &bands that advertise &make themselves out to be "professional" &business-like in attitude but are anything like/far from it!.For example ads i,ve applied to &have recieved calls from only to be told "i,ll call you next week" only not to hear from them again or to call them & be told to call i half an hour&you get there voicemail&it takes them 3 days or more for them to return your call &only then to be told that consider yourself lucky because there was other people in the cue before me that she had to call!.Not to mention bands that don,t say wether or not they,re playing covers/originals or a tribute band&if they,re a covers or tirbute band what versions(&whos) are they doing the covers of! .All solo artists or bands should at the very least say what time(s) best&conveniant to call or that they dont check there ads every day or week!.But the worse is when your told the bands folding only to see a ad for a guitarist! c,mon people get your business&professional act together! i answer all &every ad that answers mine! &some of you wonder why you dont have a gig!.Ē

    Now my gramma and speeling inst the best.
    But what is above is just terrible. It is so bad you can barely read it.

    Are coffee snobs just better at the English language?

    I could be completely wrong or full of it but heres my theory;

    The people that come to this site and stay are people that want to do things better. People who expect a bit better from the world. People who expect a bit better products/services that companies provide.
    This site just seems to attract those types of people.

    At this point time 99% of coffee served in Australia is just crap. The closest cafť to my home that sells acceptable coffee is 70kms away.
    The easiest, cheapest way to get around this is to do it yourself. Including roasting.
    Where do you get info on this?
    HERE!

    So for someone like me who thinks; ďThis knife isnít sharp enough, Iíll learn how to sharpen knives, itís hard and expensive to get good beer, Iíll brew it myself, BiltongÖ$50 a kilo? Unacceptable, canít be that hard, Iíll make it myself, my average fingers donít fit the average 44mm nut guitar and chords buzz, Iíll get one custom made with a 49.5mm nut, my boiler temp control has a 10C dead band, unacceptable Iím putting a PID on it, that paragraph doesnít look right, Iíll rewrite it, will tend to end up on Coffeesnobs (here I am!)

    Myself and I would guess other Coffeesnobs, when posed the statement ďInstant coffee, Maccaís, one billion people canít be wrong!Ē say, YES THEY CAN!!

    You are in a business. As such you need to make a profit, by selling to those one billion people. What is the current Coffeesnob member level? 7886.
    I know, a bit extreme. What do I mean?
    Example:
    The coffee van that comes to my work serves really, really bad coffee. The machine is a good machine, the grinder is a Mazzer. The problem is the bean is bad. In the building we have 12 coffee drinkers. 10 of them buy coffee from the van. I bring in my cold press. The other person drinks instant over the stuff from the van (yes, it is that bad). The point is, to get my money he may have to pay double for his bean. Not worth it.
    The general public, just donít care or canít taste the difference.
    Coffee isnít the only product like this.

    If you have come to ask ďHow do I make better coffee?Ē you are in the right place.
    If you have come to ask ďHow do I cut corners to make more money?Ē right question, for business, wrong site to pose that question.

    Enough of my rantÖ.sorry, Iíll get back in my box!

    Back on topic.

    Can you refrigerate shots then serve later. Sure can. Donít know what it will taste like.
    But if you are then selling it as espresso, thatís wrong. Not just from a Coffeesnob point of view. As explained by Angermangment, it isnít espresso.

  48. #48
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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Considering that the best espresso shot is one made from freshly roasted and ground beans, a refrigerated shot would lose its freshness and as such, the quality would be so much less than what you would want to drink. If you had to add milk later, I would prefer to drink it black to make sure it was fresh

  49. #49
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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Grapsta. Just curious to see how you are getting on.After some of these ideas/suggestions and opinions have you now a better idea or are close to making up your mind which way you will approach this? Is there one suggestion here that suits your requirements/budget.

  50. #50
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    Re: Is it possible to refrigerate shots then add milk later ????

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    there is a coffee shop in Balmain in SYD on darling st that uses "cold shots" in their ice coffees. In the fridge over night i was told.....

    its popular shop with the crowds on weekends......... hole in the wall style no real seating inside . you know a "real coffee shop" ....? ::)

    they dont use them in normal coffee (i hope)

    i had one, nothing fantastic tasted like iced coffee to me....

    I really like pizza.... :D
    we talking wood fired or oven here?
    do you cut and chop all the stuff by hand?
    hand rolled dough ?





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