Results 1 to 29 of 29

Thread: Distribution and tamping

  1. #1
    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    3,156

    Distribution and tamping

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Read this interesting article, thought it might be of interest to CSers:--

    http://www.fivesensescoffee.com.au/news/2009/04/22/perfecting-your-distribution

  2. #2
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    5,113

    Re: Distribution and tamping

    Nice pictorial article
    However I dont use any of those methods

    I just tap the PF on the bench a couple of times and Tamp
    KK

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Toronto, New South Wales, Australia, Australia
    Posts
    305

    Re: Distribution and tamping

    All these methods seem to allow for a lot of wastage!
    Tap n tamp seems just fine to me - does the trick and you try to get the right amount to begin with. Plus no fingers all over the place. I dont think Id mind, as a consumer, seeing a finger brushing aside grinds, but some of those pics show whole hands all over the place.
    Even tho Im a clean freak and wash hands constantly, Id still not like to be showing customers a hand all over their coffee before pulling the shot.
    Looks like a badger pawing at its burrow!

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    759

    Re: Distribution and tamping

    Interesting, I was reading this same article the other day.

    I just bought a mazzer mini to go with my EM6910, so am having to re-learn a little bit going from a doserless to doser. The biggest problem I have is that the em6910 likes to be updosed. Simply dosing to the top of the basket then tamping wont do as it leaves too much headroom.

    Stockfleths has been working ok for me, but Id like to work out a simpler routine. I liked watching Gwilym in the WBC as his routine is so no fuss.

    As for the cleanliness of stockfleths, just like any other food prep, the person doing it should have clean hands.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Toronto, New South Wales, Australia, Australia
    Posts
    305

    Re: Distribution and tamping

    Quote Originally Posted by 5E5C50585856514C3F0 link=1241046158/3#3 date=1241049806
    As for the cleanliness of stockfleths, just like any other food prep, the person doing it should have clean hands.
    That they should, but you cant always know when you walk in the door!
    If it was just for me, Id try it, but I dont think it would look very nice for the customer.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Stan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Just North of Brisbane
    Posts
    943

    Re: Distribution and tamping

    I fill my PF to the edge then place the tamper on the coffee and press very lightly. I then dose to a small mound then scrap the coffee grounds excess off with a straight edged tool (knife/spatula) and then tamp. I have found that this gives me just the right dose for the EM6910.

    Different horses different courses - do what works for you. ;)

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    759

    Re: Distribution and tamping

    Quote Originally Posted by 0225303F510 link=1241046158/5#5 date=1241053910
    I fill my PF to the edge then place the tamper on the coffee and press very lightly.I then dose to a small mound then scrap the coffee grounds excess off with a straight edged tool (knife/spatula) and then tamp.I have found that this gives me just the right dose for the EM6910.
    I found this dosed too much for me. I need to play around a lot more before I find something that suits. For now, stockfleths move is getting me my coffee.

    Im just a little precious about my hands getting covered in grounds. :(

  8. #8
    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    3,156

    Re: Distribution and tamping

    Quote Originally Posted by 27252921212F2835460 link=1241046158/3#3 date=1241049806
    Interesting, I was reading this same article the other day.

    I just bought a mazzer mini to go with my EM6910, so am having to re-learn a little bit going from a doserless to doser. The biggest problem I have is that the em6910 likes to be updosed. Simply dosing to the top of the basket then tamping wont do as it leaves too much headroom.

    Stockfleths has been working ok for me, but Id like to work out a simpler routine. I liked watching Gwilym in the WBC as his routine is so no fuss.

    As for the cleanliness of stockfleths, just like any other food prep, the person doing it should have clean hands.
    Ive just gone from a Rocky to MM with doser, its taken me a while to become accustomed to using the doser, Im starting to get a routine, I start grinding and flick doser continually before it fills so that I can fill the basket evenly by moving it around a little giving a tap occasionally to settle grinds and then I let it mound until measured dose is finished, I then use spatula tool in ewns action and level off, then I tamp and pull shot, good results so far. I purchased a little Breville handheld vacuum to clean up my messy dosing!!

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    569

    Re: Distribution and tamping

    Quote Originally Posted by 60626E6666686F72010 link=1241046158/3#3 date=1241049806
    I just bought a mazzer mini to go with my EM6910, so am having to re-learn a little bit going from a doserless to doser. The biggest problem I have is that the em6910 likes to be updosed. Simply dosing to the top of the basket then tamping wont do as it leaves too much headroom.
    Well done on the upgrade!

    When I moved from a Sunbeam Grinder to a MM with my Sunbeam 6910 I also struggled with the doser and dosing. Quick flicking and moving the PF around to get even distribution definitely helped.

    The other option was to dose slowly so not to flick coffee to the left in a bunch at a time. I seem to switch between the two methods depending on my mood. Yes, I know, lack of consistency :)

    In terms of dosing - found it much easier to choke the sunbeam with the MM. When I eventually figured things out, I tended to grind at a finer level, dose slightly less and not tamp as hard to make up for the adjusteability of the grinder.

    I think, because of the stepless grinder, you did not have to change your tamp pressure to make up for lack of grinder adjusteability

    B

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    59

    Re: Distribution and tamping

    The assumption here is that the basket needs to be filled to the brim (untamped ofcourse) for the right dosage.
    With my Gaggia Classic, I find that doing that on the double basket give me quite an OD. With the single basket, it wont even go on the machine after tamping (shower screen hits the coffee bed and PF wont fit).
    I checked (Salter digital kitchen scales), and a filled to the brim, untamped single basket ends up with 12 grams of coffee...

    Are the baskets supposed to be filled to the brim?
    If so, am I grinding wrong (Im using a Rocky, which clumps a bit)?

    thx.,

    RJ

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    921

    Re: Distribution and tamping

    Each machine is made differently and you must dose to the machine. What I believe is commonly done is to dose so that the dry puck just touches the showerscreen and so has some room to expand when the water hits it, however that is just from reading forums not from experience on lots of machines. (works on mine though)

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    1,077

    Re: Distribution and tamping

    I dose to top of basket, tap on bench a few times and fill to top of basket and level of with a finger then tamp. The top of the dry puk generally sits just below the screen.

    Providing i am consistent it all works for me. The trouble is that generally i know when i am being inconsistent but keep going rather than dumping the grounds back into the doser and starting again.

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    62

    Re: Distribution and tamping

    Quote Originally Posted by 4F474E4B414B4D5751220 link=1241046158/4#4 date=1241051474
    ACog wrote on Apr 30th, 2009, 10:03am:
    As for the cleanliness of stockfleths, just like any other food prep, the person doing it should have clean hands.


    That they should, but you cant always know when you walk in the door!
    If it was just for me, Id try it, but I dont think it would look very nice for the customer.
    Just a quick point - Bacteria dies at 80C, espresso is brewed at over 90C so theres no issue in terms of bacteria and cleanliness with man-handling coffee.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    4,512

    Re: Distribution and tamping

    Quote Originally Posted by 293B3C2B2B20590 link=1241046158/12#12 date=1241307890
    Just a quick point - Bacteria dies at 80C
    I believe with a little research youll find that to be incorrect. For example, thermophiles will thrive at a temperature of 80C and beyond. You would need a rolling boil of 5 minutes to kill most forms of bacteria.

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    62

    Re: Distribution and tamping

    I had a laugh, i love when you guys get so nit-picky over tiny little points (i bet i get quoted here). * ::)
    Just for reference; "A thermophile is an organism a type of extremophile that thrives at relatively high temperatures, between 45 and 80 C" (Madigan MT, Martino JM (2006). Brock Biology of Microorganisms (11th ed.). Pearson. pp. 136. ISBN 0-13-196893-9.)
    It is extreme Hyperthermophiles that thrive at temperatures above 80C

    Sure, some bacteria may exist beyond the normal operating temperature of an espresso machine (keeping in mind that it *is not just the temperature, but also the pressure of extraction (130+psi) that kills the bacteria). *But for the sake of basic OCH&S and sticking to the basic food and beverage operating guidelines passed by the health authority, we are not required to eliminate ALL bacteria. Rather, to get it to a reasonable quantity. *

    Most bacteria does die at or around 80C. *Commercial dishwashers have a rated operating rinse temperature of between 80 and 90c (most set to 85C) because of this. *Espresso machines also maintain a normal operating temperature of *above this. *Ergo, the coffee is safe to consume, even if stockfleths (etc etc) was used.

  16. #16
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    16,878

    Re: Distribution and tamping

    Even so,

    I wouldnt be happy to spot a barista who was making a coffee for me or mine, poking his fingers in and around the PF just before pulling the shot. I dont do it and I would expect the same from anyone preparing foodstuffs in a commercial situation.... regardless of the affect of hot water on little nasties,

    Mal.

  17. #17
    A_M
    A_M is offline
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,381

    Re: Distribution and tamping

    Quote Originally Posted by 4E63676B660A0 link=1241046158/15#15 date=1241329706
    Even so,

    I wouldnt be happy to spot a barista who was making a coffee for me or mine, poking his fingers in and around the PF just before pulling the shot. I dont do it and I would expect the same from anyone preparing foodstuffs in a commercial situation.... regardless of the affect of hot water on little nasties,

    Mal.
    That may be fine for the coffee, but where have their hands been and what else do they touch... The outside of teh Mug / cup as well.. Then you pick it up and transfer :D

    We did an experiment in one of the labs that was having issues with DNA carry over.. No that is touchy..

    Stained one persons hands in the morning and scanned every one that evening and the next morning..

    Needless to say some very interesting and disturbing results.. Why to men always end up touching the front and rear of themselves SO much ;) Then, some staff from sections far removed from the experiment also showed staining.. Interesting just how far some things travel..

    6 degrees of separation ;)

    Some even returned the next day... Still stained... Did they ever wash ?

    AM

    PS. Of to pick my nose and go to the loo... OH, have to make coffee for guests as well. :o


  18. #18
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    5,113

    Re: Distribution and tamping

    AM
    Thats serious and seriously funny at he same time

    A comedian can have a field day with this material :)
    KK

  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    62

    Re: Distribution and tamping

    Quote Originally Posted by 507D797578140 link=1241046158/15#15 date=1241329706
    I wouldnt be happy to spot a barista who was making a coffee for me or mine, poking his fingers in and around the PF just before pulling the shot.
    Youre kidding me right?! Previous to the age of timed grinders just about every single competitor who made it to the finals of every WBC used their fingers in some sort of dose distribution including world champions Klaus Thompson, Tim Wendelboe, Paul Basset, James Hoffman (no, not when he used the k30s) not to mention a plethora of other baristas such as David Makin, Scottie Callaghan, Sammy picolo, Carl Sarah, the list goes on and on and on and on. :-?

  20. #20
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    4,512

    Re: Distribution and tamping


    I like the phrase, "Clean enough to be healthy, dirty enough to be fun." Sometimes I think weve become so sterile, that we dont get the opportunity to build up any resistance to bugs. So, I dont think Im precious enough to think I might die if a basket has been scraped off with someones finger, though I do appreciate cleanliness.

    At work, the coffee is ground into the basket and tamped. I dont stick my fingers in it. Apart from temperature, my glasswasher is loaded with a chlorinated detergent. I know of some places that rely on the water alone to do the job.

    Anyway, Im pretty glad to think if I ever need surgery, the instruments have been through an autoclave rather than rinsed off from the group of an espresso machine. ;D




  21. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    62

    Re: Distribution and tamping

    ;D

  22. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    1,077

    Re: Distribution and tamping

    AM, as usual your post is just priceless.

    Keep em coming. ;D

    Mal

  23. #23
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    16,878

    Re: Distribution and tamping

    Yeah well,

    I was alluding to the fact that we dont know just how seriously complete strangers take their personal hygiene.... Ive got enough problems to be concerned about without picking up something extra and unwanted :o

    Mal.

  24. #24
    A_M
    A_M is offline
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,381

    Re: Distribution and tamping

    Quote Originally Posted by 777A7977150 link=1241046158/21#21 date=1241343024
    AM, as usual your post is just priceless.

    Keep em coming. *;D

    Mal
    Quote Originally Posted by 517C787479150 link=1241046158/22#22 date=1241361883
    Yeah well,

    I was alluding to the fact that we dont know just how seriously complete strangers take their personal hygiene.... Ive got enough problems to be concerned about without picking up something extra and unwanted :o

    Mal.

    Mal.... OLD age, will not be kept a bay.. 8-) 8-) The problem is you already have caught it ;)

    They say coffee is helpfully but it is not working too well for me.. :o

    My Wife also reckons that she has caught enough from me over the years and after coming down with two kids... Does her best to keep well away from me :( :(

  25. #25
    Senior Member Stan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Just North of Brisbane
    Posts
    943

    Re: Distribution and tamping

    Just tell her constant exposure creates resistance. ;D ;D

    Old age isnt catching but it seems to affect everyone eventually. :( The good thing about it is that we have made it to our age (whatever that may be) those who are younger still have to get there. Half the fun is the journey.

    In respect to the topic - I avoid coffess houses where I am suspect of their hygiene practices - I have seen some grotty shops over the years, I do like to see sparkling stainless. However a busy shop may look untidy (coffee grounds on the bench etc but it should not be dirty. If one uses their own finger to spead the grinds for their own coffee I would expect they have already been exposed to the germs comntained thereon. However when making coffee for others I use a clean spatula/straight edge to clear the top.

  26. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    466

    Re: Distribution and tamping

    Lets see,

    In most coffee shops distribution is mostly done by hand, whether it is stockfleth, NSEW or one of many others. I and everyone else I know keeps their hands as clean as possible. Using an implement adds time (mostly where did I put that damn spatula etc.) and I find using my hands lets me feel a better distribution any way. *Last Friday I burned through around 4kg - 5kg of coffee and had a continous 5 hours (no breaks even to pull a shot for myself) of pulling shots. If I had any extra time spent on distro I would have fallen further and further behind leaving customers without a coffee for longer and longer. I will continue to use my hands thank you very much.

    The only bad thing about using hands from distro is how having to continuously touch and press a very hot pf (particularly if you have been favouring *one group and suddenly using another to run two shots at the same time - yowch)

  27. #27
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    10

    Re: Distribution and tamping

    First post! Yay!

    I quite agree with you Martial Monkey. I use Stockfleths move and in a commercial envioronment you have to be fast and consistent. I pretty much find anything using a tool too fiddly and slow, and anything less of distribution too inconsistent. My stockfleth looks a little different to the one illustrated in the 5 senses article (a little less hand coverage!). My boss used to use stockfleths move; he now uses the "Chicago Chop", mainly because he was getting a sore wrist.

    I also agree with Dennis. If we box ourselves into a pristine, sterile environment well either eventually be living in safety suits or well drop dead as soon as we walk out the front door.

    I like to think Im hygienic. I try to wash my hands as often as I can, in between rushes of drinks. I have no problem with a barista who uses their hands. If I see those techniques I will already be hopefully looking forward to a tasty coffee!

  28. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    790

    Re: Distribution and tamping

    i used to coat my right (stockfleth-favouring) hand in raspberry essense, to faciliate the presence of berry-fruit in my heavy bodied chocolate laden short blacks.... :P

  29. #29
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    4,512

    Re: Distribution and tamping

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by 263B3F3A3131540 link=1241046158/27#27 date=1241522561
    i used to coat my right (stockfleth-favouring) hand in raspberry essense, to faciliate the presence of berry-fruit in my heavy bodied chocolate laden short blacks.... :P
    Damn, I wish Id thought of that!

    ;D



Similar Threads

  1. Distribution--between dosing and tamping
    By GregWormald in forum General Coffee Related...
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 12th May 2010, 10:11 PM
  2. Distribution
    By mrnaive in forum General Coffee Related...
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 22nd June 2007, 08:41 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •