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Thread: Coffee related injuries

  1. #1
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    Coffee related injuries

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Recently, at a local coffee shop, I was unaware that a trainee barista was on the machine and the coffee came out way too hot and....my fault entirely, I scalded my hard palate leaving the skin in tatters. So when I caught up with professor of surgery D.C.Charles buying beans at a busy Brisbane Torrefazione he said that this type of injury was not unusual. "We call it shredding of the hard palate" he said and most commonly occurs after a good night out at a restaurant when you MUST order an in-house coffee and you know that this restaurant type does not have a coffee culture. Furthermore, he said, if you notice that the barista and his/her machine are not as one, and the barista is not wearing black then sit back and let the others order coffee.
    "So what is my treatment for this injury?" I inquired.
    "Ring me immediately" he replied. "I can always do with a good laugh after a long day in theatre."
    Cheers, CJM.

  2. #2
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Re: Coffee related injuries


    ** cack **
    ;D

    On a similar line of thought, does anyone know of an official standard or maybe a local council regulation on the temperature of a coffee served?

    We know that the circa 65C is the "right" temperature but I wonder if as part of any local health regulations the maximum temperature is set?


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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Got a very bad burn out of a Coffee vending machine once as a kid acidently tipped it over the arm of a woollen jumper I was wearing. 2nd degree scalding and blistered skin, location at the time 30m from the Casualty department of Prince Henrys Hospital in Melbourne *::)

    Most likely this spillage saved me from the problem above *;)

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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    I doubt that councils will ever set a temp for coffee serving as they would have to do the same for tea and I dont know too many tea drinkers that would cop drinking it at 65 C.

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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    The councils could employ temperature rangers to monitor for correct temps. It would be a sure way to boost employment and the economy *;D

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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by 5A7960736F160 link=1243894211/4#4 date=1243914242
    The councils could employ temperature rangers to monitor for correct temps. It would be a sure way to boost employment and the economy *;D
    Yeah, they could bust into places serving their coffee too hot and yell














    wait for it





















    FREEZE

    Groan now.

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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Man, thats so bad, its good! *:D

    The only one real time I scalded the top of my palate and took skin off was about 6 weeks ago and it was my own fault!

    Made my normal take away for work and, because I work 30 minutes away and like my coffee to last at least until 9.30am (I start at 7.30am), I usually take it up to about 72 degrees and put it in a Bodum Thermal Mug.

    Made it as per normal that morning, picked it up and went to sip the foam off the top that comes out of the opening, as I usually do, and managed to tip it a bit and take a big swig of coffee - ow! *Havent made that mistake since...

    Silly, silly girl! *:-[

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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by 70534A59453C0 link=1243894211/4#4 date=1243914242
    The councils could employ temperature rangers to monitor for correct temps. It would be a sure way to boost employment and the economy *;D
    I still need a job.
    Sounds good to me.

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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Only problem with this as a Job apart from having to look at more bad coffee than good would be the obvious "Well you know where you can place your Thermometer " :o

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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    If you wanna start talking about things being hot and burning your mouth, have you ever bit into a meat pie out of the warmer only for the gravy to pour down the front of your chin? Now that hurts. I would prefer to run that risk though than to constantly get warm pies!! Same would apply with everything else I guess.


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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by 645B5D5A4740716C4157424B2E0 link=1243894211/9#9 date=1243923616
    have you ever bit into a meat pie out of the warmer only for the gravy to pour down the front of your chin?
    Not for many years, since I learned to turn bite into the pie with the crust on the bottom.

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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    I was told by a cafe owner that it was against the law to sell take away coffee without a plastic lid on it. I have no idea if this is true.

  13. #13
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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by 75727679717B6E7E7970170 link=1243894211/2#2 date=1243907025
    Got a very bad burn out of a Coffee vending machine once as a kid acidently tipped it over the arm of a woollen jumper I was wearing. 2nd degree scalding and blistered skin, location at the time 30m from the Casualty department of Prince Henrys Hospital in Melbourne *::)

    Most likely this spillage saved me from the problem above *;)
    That happened to me as a three-year-old, but it was all over my forehead. Luckily my mum is the worlds quickest thinker and had me under a tap before I even knew what had happened.

    I have a friend who bought coffee at a fast food joint in Thornleigh (more fool him) and reckoned it was still too hot to drink when he got off the F3 at Gosford. :o

    As for policing coffee temps, I cant see how you could. If a long black can be 90C, I guess you cant insist a milked one must be cooler ... unfortunately ...




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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    i always say if you are desprite and get a Mc coffee then plan 1hr ahead it might be almost col enough to drink then

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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by 7E727B7B7878426E73727F1D0 link=1243894211/13#13 date=1243943654
    i always say if you are desprite and get a Mc coffee then plan 1hr ahead it might be almost col enough to drink then
    hahahhahaha I was thinking that as I read through the posts. Might be testament to how good their cups are!!!

    Ive always found that something heated in the microwave seems to be hotter to touch without having any real warmth in it. What I mean by that is that it burns but doesnt really warm you up going down. In comparison something heated in an oven or stove tends to have a different warmth to it and does warm you up without burning. My experience is the same with water from a thermos. Perhaps it is a similar thing to the takeaway coffee cups.

    Does anyone get what I am going on about here or am I talking a pile of !@#$?

    JB

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by 033C3A3D2027160B2630252C490 link=1243894211/14#14 date=1244000770
    something heated in the microwave seems to be hotter to touch without having any real warmth in it.
    Bizarre! I could swear that anything warmed on the stove stays warmer, longer. I dont know if its my imagination or if its true.

    Perhaps one of our resident CS scientists would be able to provide more info?


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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Microwave ovens work by the microwaves vibrating teh particles causing friction and hence warmth.

    Usually the opposite happens: the container doesnt feel that warm but the water may become superheated (ie above 100oC).

    Perhaps in the phenomenon Justin described, the containers are good conductors of heat.

    Steve (armchair scientist)

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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    ehehe, burnt my mouth a few times but now ive developed a habit of smelling the coffee before i drink it cos that way you can easily tell if its too hot or if theyve burnt it. (so you are prepared for the bad taste)

    But i mostly drink piccolo lattes, short blacks and ristrettos now which cool quickly. With manual brewed coffee ive prepared it myself so i rarely burn myself now (:


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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by 4E616B760F0 link=1243894211/1#1 date=1243906438
    ** cack **
    ;D

    On a similar line of thought, does anyone know of an official standard or maybe a local council regulation on the temperature of a coffee served?

    We know that the circa 65C is the "right" temperature but I wonder if as part of any local health regulations the maximum temperature is set?
    This was a question I asked a little while ago as in a fave motorcycle magazine it was reported that in Nana Glen (I think thats correct) a cafe was said to have told the writer that they had to have their machine set to 70 degrees as it was a council law...I was wondering how much of the story was just that...a story...

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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    To assist in the problem on the rate at which coffee cools, I rang my aforementioned contact at Cambridge (Milk, Froth, Bubbles/Plunger Frothing). He said that Newtons Law of Coffee Cooling(Google it) states that the rate of change of the temperature of the coffee with time is proportional to the difference in temperature between the coffee and its surrounds. This means, in effect, that the higher the temperature, the faster the coffee will cool.
    (My personal theory is that there must be exceptions to this rule e.g. the coffee mentioned by Michelle in reply 12)
    Furthermore, he said, that because the relationship between the temperature and time is exponential, the temperature will exhibit a half-life just as in radio-active decay! Thus if a coffee halves its temperature in 10 minutes, its temperature will halve again in the next 10 minutes.
    I pondered this for a moment and then asked , "Are you saying that if the half life of a cup of coffee is 10 minutes, then in 10 minutes half of the temperature is gone and in another 10 minutes all of the temperature is gone?"
    There was silence at his end and then the phone went dead.
    Cheers, CJM

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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    I think that the stories of your prof are very funny, CJM...but did you ring him back to see if everything was ok at his end? ;D

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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    I remember Professor Julius Sumner Miller posing the question of whether it was better to add milk to your tea or coffee if the phone rang as you were about to, knowing you wouldnt drink it until you finished the phone call.
    Your intention was to have the drink as hot as possible when you got back to it.

  23. #23
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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by 7E425F444E4F584D454E2A0 link=1243894211/21#21 date=1244077570
    I remember Professor Julius Sumner Miller posing the question ....
    Do you remember the answer to this question and "why is it so?"

  24. #24
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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by 7C766374747B6F691A0 link=1243894211/22#22 date=1244078512
    Do you remember the answer to this question and "why is it so?"
    Sure do...It was "shut up and eat your cereal!" ;)

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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by 7D776275757A6E681B0 link=1243894211/22#22 date=1244078512
    Quote Originally Posted by 7E425F444E4F584D454E2A0 link=1243894211/21#21 date=1244077570
    I remember Professor Julius Sumner Miller posing the question *....
    Do you remember the answer to this question and "why is it so?"
    I thought Id get a bite.

    IIRC he said to add the milk before answering the phone.
    The temperature drop of the hot beverage would be less than if added later.
    So youd come back to a hotter coffee/tea than youd get by adding the milk upon your return.

    I believe that fits in with CJMs professors explanation of how fast coffee cools.

    -----------

    My favourite show was the one where he boiled water until it froze. :o

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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Quite correct the cooling of any liquid with an elevated temperature to its surroundings will take a very very long time to arrive at the temp of its surounds. It cools on a logarithmic basis and not on a linear basis so discussion on thermonuclear coffees and half lifes are right in keeping ;)

    I have an idea figure out how to make coffee brews slightly exothermic and your coffee would keep hotter for even longer :)

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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by 1E223F242E2F382D252E4A0 link=1243894211/24#24 date=1244081448
    Quote Originally Posted by 7D776275757A6E681B0 link=1243894211/22#22 date=1244078512
    Quote Originally Posted by 7E425F444E4F584D454E2A0 link=1243894211/21#21 date=1244077570
    I remember Professor Julius Sumner Miller posing the question *....
    Do you remember the answer to this question and "why is it so?"
    I thought Id get a bite.

    IIRC he said to add the milk before answering the phone.
    The temperature drop of the hot beverage would be less than if added later.
    So youd come back to a hotter coffee/tea than youd get by adding the milk upon your return.

    I believe that fits in with CJMs professors explanation of how fast coffee cools.

    -----------

    My favourite show was the one where he boiled water until it froze. *:o
    Would that have been a "glass and a half of dairy cream milk" he was using? Interesting to see that Julius was a student of Einstein.

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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Re: reply 26
    Took me a few moments but I remembered the "glass and a half".....thats a long while ago!
    Einsteins lecture theatre at Vienna University was still there when I passed through in 2003....old blackboards pulled up and down with a hook!
    Best coffee (in my opinion ) in Berlin is a franchise which must put a lot of high level thought into their product.....guess the name?

  29. #29
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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by 6F736361723935000 link=1243894211/27#27 date=1244091891
    Best coffee (in my opinion ) in Berlin is a franchise which must put a lot of high level thought into their product.....guess the name?
    Err... Espresso Mensa?

    Strangely enough there is Einstein Kaffee (which is what you must mean) or Cafe Einstein which is not a coffee chain but gets a rap in travel guides by the looks of it.

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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by 437661633035040 link=1243894211/26#26 date=1244085924
    Would that have been a "glass and a half of dairy cream milk" he was using?
    Nope; a Petri dish of water.

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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Scoota Gal did write..
    This was a question I asked a little while ago as in a fave motorcycle magazine it was reported that in Nana Glen (I think thats correct) a cafe was said to have told the writer that they had to have their machine set to 70 degrees as it was a council law...I was wondering how much of the story was just that...a story... [/QUOTE]


    Ill check that as its my local council.. Coffs Harbour.. Im guessing BS..

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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    A few (well, maybe more than a few) years ago when Choice reviewed coffee machines they mentioned the Australian standard for hot coffee from a machine. From memory it was 96C. They were a bit confused to find that the only machines that passed the standard produced the worst coffee!

    Ooops.

    Greg

  33. #33
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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    I had a look at Standards Australia and couldnt find anything referencing coffee temperature.

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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Andy, im not sure about australia as a whole, but in queensland, our milk based beverages are to be served at 70 degrees, unless requested. we steam with thermometers for that reason. however when making my own drink, hot to touch is aprox 55 degrees, which for me is perfect.

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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by 404844456C6667090 link=1243894211/33#33 date=1244246976
    in queensland, our milk based beverages are to be served at 70 degrees
    Why?
    Who says so?

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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by 1C203D262C2D3A2F272C480 link=1243894211/34#34 date=1244248166
    Quote Originally Posted by 404844456C6667090 link=1243894211/33#33 date=1244246976
    in queensland, our milk based beverages are to be served at 70 degrees
    Why?
    Who says so?
    Leon

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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    And is that a max or a min is that finished temp with the shot??? If it is a max for safety sake then thats fine finished Lattes or flat whites with 65 degree milk should just get there.

    If that is the case for hot beverages then I would expect Tea drinkers to be up in arms ::) If it is for psuedo safety then where do long black drinkers go :-?

  38. #38
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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by 6661656A62687D6D6A63040 link=1243894211/36#36 date=1244249950
    If that is the case for hot beverages then I would expect Tea drinkers to be up in arms. *If it is for psuedo safety then where do long black drinkers go
    Its a whole new phohibition.
    Itll spawn a range of illegal underground cafes, or Heat-easys where people in the know can gain admittance with a special password
    "Death to Instant!"
    Once inside, no State Nanny rules apply.

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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Currently hiding my Syphoned 90 degree and cooling brew under the counter incase there is a raid ;D Honestly officer I wasnt going to drink it till it gets to 70 ::)

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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    ;D ;D ;D

    Watch out for them care bears,

    they are everywhere!!!


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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by 5057535C545E4B5B5C55320 link=1243894211/25#25 date=1244082031
    I have an idea figure out how to make coffee brews slightly exothermic and your coffee would keep hotter for even longer
    Might get a pour over happening while beans still in the BM ;D

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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    of course its only milk based beverages, due to the bacteria that are active below 65 degrees and above 5 degrees, and its serving temp after shot is added.


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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by 5B677A616B6A7D68606B0F0 link=1243894211/34#34 date=1244248166
    Who says so?
    Leon, Im an auditor.
    If you cant supply me with the AS or ISO standard or regulatory body that dictates this 70 degrees, then I can only take your comments as hearsay not evidence.

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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Well in that case it is a crock. As soon as the temp falls below 65 is the customer supposed to stop drinking ;D

    This is unenforceable and insane it bears NO resemblance to the bay marie type of food thing where food has to be kept above 70. To kill off any bacteria you need to maintain high temps for a period of time and in the case of milk from a fridge to 65 then made into a drink there is NO WAY in Heck that bacteria can breed in that time :D ;D

    Only coffee related injury here is me breaking a rib laughing ;D

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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    ok, so in the paperwork i recieved when i was employed by Zarraffas, as determined by health department of queensland, we must warn all customers who as for a beverage made cooler than 60 degrees as bacteria that cause food poisening thrive between the tempratures of 5 and 60 degrees. we for that reason serve our drinks at 65+ degrees.

    here straight from the qld health dep website, you can see in comical form.... http://www.health.qld.gov.au/ehworm/documents/29799.pdf

    oh also we are evaluated every couple of months to ensure our store keeps with these regulations, they weigh and take temps of our drinks.

    the health dep also checks for this quarterly, along with all other safe food handling procedures.

  46. #46
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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by 5A525E5F767C7D130 link=1243894211/44#44 date=1244362183
    ok, so in the paperwork i recieved when i was employed by Zarraffas, as determined by health department of queensland, we must warn all customers who as for a beverage made cooler than 60 degrees as bacteria that cause food poisening thrive between the tempratures of 5 and 60 degrees. we for that reason serve our drinks at 65+ degrees.

    here straight from the qld health dep website, you can see in comical form.... http://www.health.qld.gov.au/ehworm/documents/29799.pdf

    oh also we are evaluated every couple of months to ensure our store keeps with these regulations, they weigh and take temps of our drinks.

    the health dep also checks for this quarterly, along with all other safe food handling procedures.
    The usual miss information and and those that know not... Inspecting and making life a pain for all..

    As it states - Storage is above 60C and I agree...

    "is when potentially hazardous foods are stored in the temperature danger zone before and after preparation. "

    There are many foods / drinks that are served outside teh temps recommended in this guide... Why.. Because it is about STORAGE and not the temp that food and drink is to be consumed...

    Another reason why the good old Doggy bag is a NO NO... Because people take the food home and leave it on the bench or ??? and then warm and re use...

    Most food poisoning bacteria thrive in
    the TEMPERATURE DANGER ZONE.
    [ch9733] Store HOT foods above 60C
    [ch9733] Store COLD foods below 5C.

    Interesting... Most fridges do not run at 5C but ( 4 - 8) and within a minute or two... many products will warm up quite quickly..

    Thus in a attempt to keep their noeses out of teh paper and the courts due to FOOLS doing teh wrong thing...

    Thus - Over zealous ill informed inspectors and tick teh box upper management and gov policy makers; get a clean run... Tis a shame a few people do not stand up and be counted when dealing with fools..



    Sorry... Off the soap box for now but still can not believe how today society has become lambs to the slaughter... [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]

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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Thanks AM.
    Bureaucrats that dont even understand their own "rules". ::)

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    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Quote Originally Posted by 764A574C464750454D46220 link=1243894211/46#46 date=1244390835
    Thanks AM.
    Bureaucrats that dont even understand their own "rules". *::)
    Yep... It is a little like ISO 9001 / NATA / Electricity Act etc and many other regs...

    1: There is a REQUIREMENT..
    2: Some one does their best to explain it / put it into a document...
    3: Others that may or may not fully understand or comprehend; get to Audit / Enforce.

    As often stated (for good reason) - A little knowledge can be dangerous.

    Thus you end up with confusion, miss management, frustration on both sides and often more expense for all; with little or no value adding.. Some may say it is safer, but what happens is that the approach to ensure a tick in the box results in teh real ROOT CAUSE being masked or hidden and the real problem remains..


    It is just like making a coffee :D ;)

    There are some Guides to Temp / Tamp / Pressure / Recipes etc but the real story requires an understanding, not just a blind following of some guide lines.

    A coffee shop may get hung up on temp of water / head / roasting / cup/ quality of water etc etc... But will store milk in a Fridge with a gauge placed ??? and if it shows 5C they and the inspector will be happy.

    Now if they were to apply the same focus on the fridge (If it is that critical); they would have it data logged (calibrated temp sensors to 0.5C) with 9 test points as to the Standard for review of the spacial of the temp controlled device (TCD). With the unit Empty, then with the unit loaded with a test load and positioned as per the standard (Check recovery rate and flow rates). Then they would map and plan the shelves for loading of the shop products, to ensure consistent temp across the unit. You would also do that at least once if not twice a year..

    Guess what - Food NO. Medical products - Some and some not.

    It is / should be about FIT for Purpose NOT a TBM approach.

  49. #49
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    174

    Re: Coffee related injuries

    had a coffee at mcdonalds hervey bay double shot lattee 2 weeks ago.burnt the roof of my mouth very hot!!!!!

  50. #50
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    224

    Re: Coffee related injuries

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    I get a coffee at maccas when I am really desparate in the wee hours of the morning on the F3 (sydney Newcastle link for all you non-new-south-welsh peoples.

    I dont touch it for 20 minutes at least.

    Having said that - many burnt tastebuds might improve the flavour...



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