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Thread: Sunbeam sucks!

  1. #1
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Sunbeam sucks!

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I got the following email today. *It appears that Welly doesnt think CoffeeSnobs can be trusted with a service manual.

    Sheeze! *It would be different if it was a document that we were editing but as a PDF it is still their original document, CSrs would have just been using it to save a warranty call. *You would think that would save Sunbeam money... besides they get plenty of free exposure here.


    SUNBEAM SUX *
    SUNBEAM SUX *
    SUNBEAM SUX *
    SUNBEAM SUX *
    SUNBEAM SUX *
    SUNBEAM SUX *
    SUNBEAM SUX *
    SUNBEAM SUX *
    SUNBEAM SUX *
    SUNBEAM SUX *
    SUNBEAM SUX *
    SUNBEAM SUX *
    SUNBEAM SUX *
    SUNBEAM SUX *
    SUNBEAM SUX *
    SUNBEAM SUX *
    SUNBEAM SUX *
    SUNBEAM SUX *
    SUNBEAM SUX *
    SUNBEAM SUX *
    SUNBEAM SUX *

    I dont know who uploaded it but I have removed it.

    If you need a copy Im sure a query in this thread might source a copy from another CSr direct.

    Grrrr!

    ====================================

    Thu 9/07/2009 10:57 AM
    WKhouw@sunbeam.com.au


    Andy,

    My name is Welly Khouw and work for Sunbeam Corporation Limited.

    I noticed that you have a copy of the service manual of EM6910 as per link below.
    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/attachments/EM6910.pdf

    Please note that the documentation is confidential and commercially sensitive. Can you please take it of your website immediately.

    Thanks


    Regards,
    Welly Khouw [ch35377][ch20553][ch21033]
    Service Manager, Sunbeam Corporation Limited
    Tel: +61 (2) 9695-8911, Fax: +61 (2) 8336-9877, Email: wkhouw@sunbeam.com.au

  2. #2
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Tell us what you really think Andy haha ;D

  3. #3
    TC
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by 5E42425D46270 link=1247127310/1#1 date=1247127768
    Tell us what you really think Andy haha ;D
    I get it...Sunbeam are scared that some other company will want to steal their I.P to produce a range of unreliable appliances that look like theirs and fall to bits as well...::)

    Also, how can they charge big bux to do trivial work if an owner has the service manual.... :-?

  4. #4
    A_M
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    A Service Manual ... Really??? :o

    I have seen some pdfs of parts and a layout.... with some basic electrics...

    But a MANUAL...


    If someone actually has a SERVICE manual... Please drop me a PM...


    I would like to compare 8-)

    If it was very detailed and went into heavy technical stuff that would be usefully to other manufacturers.. I could understand...


    But a exploded document of parts.. :o :o :o :o

    Created in MS word - 4/6/2008 EM6910.doc...

  5. #5
    Super Moderator scoota_gal's Avatar
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    I knew it... ::)

    ;D

  6. #6
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by 485854544F5A645C5A573B0 link=1247127310/4#4 date=1247129717
    I knew it...
    thought of you!

    ;)


    Quote Originally Posted by 7A555C5E49765A555A5C5E565E554F3B0 link=1247127310/3#3 date=1247129354
    But a exploded document of parts..
    Yeah, that was my point. It was nothing you couldnt find with a screwdriver (or as I now recommend, a big hammer)

    8-)

  7. #7
    A_M
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by 7659534E370 link=1247127310/0#0 date=1247127310
    Thu 9/07/2009 10:57 AM
    WKhouw@sunbeam.com.au


    Andy,

    My name is Welly Khouw and work for Sunbeam Corporation Limited.

    I noticed that you have a copy of the service manual of EM6910 as per link below.
    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/attachments/EM6910.pdf

    Please note that the documentation is confidential and commercially sensitive. Can you please take it of your website immediately.

    Thanks


    Regards,
    Welly Khouw [ch35377][ch20553][ch21033]
    Service Manager, Sunbeam Corporation Limited
    Tel: +61 (2) 9695-8911, Fax: +61 (2) 8336-9877, Email: wkhouw@sunbeam.com.au

    Actually a very poor request and not worded in the manner that one might expect form a company as big as Sunbeam.... Pleasant and an attempt to not come across too heavy handed.... But lacking true professionalism and client focus.

    On looking at the document - there really is nothing that indicates true copy write and or that it is confidential !!!! As to it being commercially sensitive, I think some one was drinking Pablo and should have had their morning coffee from a Sunbeam EM6910.


    I mean who wants to know who did the drawings and who checked (Kaing and Robert) and that is was done by the GEW Corporation Pty ltd.. IN 2006 and that the Elect schematics was in 2004...

    OH... Google... That public investigative tool :D


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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Might start calling them out for every little squeak out of place since my machine is still under warranty. Thats right, water leaks slightly out of hot water spout every time i pour a coffee. Time for a phone call rather than looking to ask here and fix it myself.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    May I please ask

    Is BIG Brother (Sunbeam) watching Coffee Snobs [smiley=huh.gif]
    if so can we charge them for the service we provide
    I mean to say how many mods have we invented for them so far

    KK

  10. #10
    Super Moderator scoota_gal's Avatar
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Not just that, KK...but how many service calls have we saved them by helping their customers out? How many machines have we sold for them here by advising potential new owners? Seriously...Andy should be getting sponsorship money from them and justly deserved, IMHO. Rather than getting such a rude and stupid email instead.

    If anything, Andy would well be within his own rights to just delete every single Sunbeam thread here...

    (and I would not care if he did...) ::)

  11. #11
    TC
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Given that the manual is probably not too hard to find elsewhere, what would happen if we just told Sumbeans to go take a flying?

    Give it to BT and just host a link ::)

  12. #12
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by 4C5C50504B5E60585E533F0 link=1247127310/10#10 date=1247141265
    If anything, Andy would well be within his own rights to just delete every single Sunbeam thread here...

    (and I would not care if he did...) ::)
    Yes and it would save 50% of CS data storage space ;D

    KK

  13. #13
    brett230873
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Inconceivable!!!! :(

    Coupled with the lack of reliablility of their products in general, I agree: Sunbeam SUCsssssssssssssssssss

  14. #14
    A_M
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by 12020E0E15003E06000D610 link=1247127310/10#10 date=1247141265
    Not just that, KK...but how many service calls have we saved them by helping their customers out? How many machines have we sold for them here by advising potential new owners? Seriously...Andy should be getting sponsorship money from them and justly deserved, IMHO. Rather than getting such a rude and stupid email instead.

    If anything, Andy would well be within his own rights to just delete every single Sunbeam thread here...

    (and I would not care if he did...) *::)

    But the the rest of us would get board and have a life... ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8-) :-? :(


    Every new purchase, where some one has teh internet and CS gets bombarded with the same questions over and over again...

    I am happy to help out... Where I can and in most cases it is about users not understanding the complexity of coffee...

    I also feel for those on teh SB help desk.. Most may not even have a machine and get told to follow a script... What they should all say is...

    Come back after your SB training session... if you still have a problem.

    Less stress for all.

    As to...

    Quote Originally Posted by 09001B0209040C610 link=1247127310/8#8 date=1247132339
    would like to say that Service Manuals most certainly can be commercially sensitive and depending on the product category, downright dangerous in the wrong hands without the correct training.
    I fully agree... Some times it is what is not said - Test equipment / Methods / etc and the implied prerequisites / skill sets that that are required before a service manual even makes sense...

    However in this case.. It is a parts list and a rough schematic.. Nothing that most other manufacturers dont already provide on the web page alongside the Users manual...

    If it was a REAL service manual it would have txt and instructions and test points and calibration information etc etc.. It does not.. Oh... And no prices either :-/ ::) ;)



  15. #15
    A_M
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by 015E46505B505C555556565E525D330 link=1247127310/11#11 date=1247141405
    Given that the manual is probably not too hard to find elsewhere, what would happen if we just told Sumbeans to go take a flying?

    Give it to BT and just host a link ::)
    e-mule *;)


    Problem with this thread is the the equipment is not that bad... I know... But its like ya first love... Some times ya can not let go :-* :(


    The issue is that users expect it to be simple... Get sold a line of "words" by a white goods sales person and then the average user get pissed that they spent hundreds on something that does not work... When in fact the blame is not always with teh machine...

    What we should do is actually look at it from a Quality perspective...

    Come on TG; jump in...

    AT the end of the day it comes down to a marketing issue and many sales agent pushing something they know little about..

    We should be focused on driving changes to the way SB do business and or support / Not support their product... As well a getting users to feedback to SB that it does not make coffee / take out the garbage and feed the cat... As they had been told it would..

    SUNBEAMS SUCKS in their new approach to end user support... :-[

    Their products are not that bad... :o

    Thus there is a risk when purchasing a Sunbeam Coffee Machine... :-/

  16. #16
    Super Moderator scoota_gal's Avatar
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    You guys... ;D

    Funny.... ;D

    Im so lovin this thread...

    :D

    AM...I swear...(no I dont really) but youve just about used every emo in your post... [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]

  17. #17
    A_M
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by 27373B3B20350B333538540 link=1247127310/16#16 date=1247142183
    You guys... ;D

    Funny.... ;D

    Im so lovin this thread...

    :D

    AM...I swear...(no I dont really) but youve just about used every emo in your post... [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]

    Like my new tag line :) [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

  18. #18
    hazchem
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by 1D323B392E113D323D3B39313932285C0 link=1247127310/15#15 date=1247141999
    there is a risk when purchasing a Sunbeam Coffee Machine...
    yep, there sure is - you get what you pay for! Ive had one of their devices and got the sort of quality one would expect for $99.

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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    This doesn`t surprise me - as Andy stated they really do suck!
    I have to deal with their stuff being returned every other day.
    There is a reason there is a 12 mth replacement warranty on just about every other machine they sell.
    They need it!!

  20. #20
    Super Moderator scoota_gal's Avatar
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by 79565F5D4A755956595F5D555D564C380 link=1247127310/17#17 date=1247142730
    Like my new tag line :) [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

    Now thats got me...



  21. #21
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    In all seriousness
    What would it cost Sunbeam to produce/manufacture a 6910 coffee appliance in China

    KK

  22. #22
    A_M
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by 4454585843566850565B370 link=1247127310/20#20 date=1247143576
    Quote Originally Posted by 79565F5D4A755956595F5D555D564C380 link=1247127310/17#17 date=1247142730
    Like my new tag line *:) *[smiley=vrolijk_26.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

    Now thats got me...



    Look down.... Help desk / Charter boat

  23. #23
    Super Moderator scoota_gal's Avatar
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    No...I know...Im just about on the floor laughing here... ;D

    ...did my emo link not work for you?? :D

  24. #24
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!


    So Andy, next time you need to travel in a hurry I suggest you dont use Air China. They probably have your name on a list marked, "Arrest for treason" if you ever make a stopover.

    Welly has provided his direct phone line ((2) 9695-8911) in the email he sent. I always think that when someone is kind enough to do this its an invitation to by-pass the customer service line and deal direct with that person. As Welly is the Service Manager, I suggest anyone having problems with their appliance, or just wishing to say a friendly, "hello" to give Welly a call. Hes not at work at the moment - but does have voicemail. ;)

    That number again is... (2) 9695-8911


  25. #25
    A_M
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by 22323E3E25300E36303D510 link=1247127310/23#23 date=1247143922
    No...I know...Im just about on the floor laughing here... ;D

    I have a Shirt from Novel that states:

    "My HelpDesk beats your Helpdesk"

    May need to get teh Wife to patch and get it to read;

    "Coffee Snobs helpdesk beats Sunbeam helpdesk hands down"


    I feel sick.... I actually like teh product... Oh well such is life.

  26. #26
    A_M
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by 6D4C4747405A290 link=1247127310/24#24 date=1247144053
    So Andy, next time you need to travel in a hurry I suggest you dont use Air China. *They probably have your name on a list marked, "Arrest for treason" if you ever make a stopover.

    Welly has provided his direct phone line ((2) 9695-8911) in the email he sent. *I always think that when someone is kind enough to do this its an invitation to by-pass the customer service line and deal direct with that person. *As Welly is the Service Manager, I suggest anyone having problems with their appliance, or just wishing to say a friendly, "hello" to give Welly a call. *Hes not at work at the moment - but does have voicemail. ;)

    That number again is... (2) 9695-8911
    Poor content in teh e-mail... *He tried to retract after he sent it, as he forgot that he set his sig to Auto on...

    Bugger.... *Some things in life you just wish you could un do * ;D

    Now what was that number for the Sunbeam help desk... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

  27. #27
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by 0D222B293E012D222D2B29212922384C0 link=1247127310/15#15 date=1247141999
    Come on TG;jump in...
    Happy to sit back and read.

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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Im not sure shouting out the guys number is a good call to tell the truth. It could be judicial to keep hold of it, and just give it out to people that have had appalling customer service from them.

    Oh, what am I thinking...thats everyone that has problem isnt it?

    Seriously, a few calls from here, and I imagine they will just disconnect it, and give him another extension number.

  29. #29
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by 404542424D49422C0 link=1247127310/28#28 date=1247145141
    Seriously,a few calls from here, and I imagine they will just disconnect it
    Nah, it will just break, and then THEY will have to make a service call. ;D


  30. #30
    brett230873
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    All jokes aside, two of my closest friends are/were about to purchase 6910s. When they are directed by me to this thread, it will be the nail in the coffin for their potential Sunbeam experience and send them to Silvia Land (take a number) . They were both iffy in regards to Sunbeams reputation and there is nothing like a little secrecy to sow the seeds of doubt! I tell two... they tell ??? ... word of mouth is a most powerful form of advertising.

  31. #31
    Super Moderator scoota_gal's Avatar
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by 5D7C7777706A190 link=1247127310/24#24 date=1247144053
    Hes not at work at the moment - but does have voicemail. ;)

    That number again is... (2) 9695-8911
    Brilliant...GOLD even!

    Meanwhile, Ive been laughing about how it only takes one letter to change "Welly" to...

    Wally...

    ;D

  32. #32
    A_M
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    I wonder if any one will sent the link to this thread, to Sunbeam ?

    OH NO.. A coffee story shoot out on Today Tonight ( opps 7 Vs 9)

  33. #33
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by 0D2C2727203A490 link=1247127310/24#24 date=1247144053
    Hes not at work at the moment - but does have voicemail.
    **Cack**


    Really, I think it was a fair request but common sense should have told Welly that Sunbeam get far more good exposure than bad exposure in CoffeeSnobs and poking a stick in the ants nest was just plain silly.

    I still fail to see what they think they are protecting by asking a local coffee community forum to remove it while it is freely available all over the internet.

    Oh yeah I forgot to say...

    SUNBEAM SUX

  34. #34
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Poor taste by sunbeam *;)
    Geez this forum has helped the sale of many a Sunbeam. Last week I went out and bought an EM6910 because of the recommendations from this forum and my somewhat limited funds. I was even looking at buying their EM0480 grinder next week. Now I think I will just save up a few more pennies and buy a Rocky. *>:(

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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Heh, I probably shouldnt play devils advocate with hardly any experience around here, but this is so unbelievably close to something I went through a few years ago I hope no-one minds if I relate it.

    Just a little note, Im not affiliated with sunbeam, I use their products but other than that have no loyalty one way or another. Never tried their customer support and Im about as far as you can get from being a coffee hardware guru. I just have a bit of experience with leaked manuals.

    Story is back from when I was a part owner in an automotive performance parts workshop. We were an authorised dealer for an Australian manufacturer of performance car parts (Sorry I dont mean to sound vague, but Im not going to give names, things you type on the net tend to have a habit of remaining for a long time.) A customer had a part fitted and went back up north with it, but decided he wanted to adjust it, rang us and asked for help. Normally wed get the customer to swing by and tweak the part free of charge, but because of the distance involved our mechanic who took the call emailed over a section of the service manual for the part so the customer could do it himself. The customer then quite innocently posted that part of the manual to an online forum for that make of car, to help other people in his position.

    Took about two weeks from there for the sh!t to hit the fan. Another member in the dealer network caught wind that the manual had been leaked. While my workshop was a pretty casual affair and would do small tweaks for free, his charged a tuning fee. He was not happy. He complained to the company, who was not happy. The company followed it up and through the forum got in touch with the customer and found out it was our mechanic who leaked it.

    We had a pretty good relationship with the manufacturer, and I cant speak highly enough for the local area representative who went in to bat for us when things turned nasty and the lawyers started circling. Basically the upset workshop owner plus several more hed by that time gathered together to form a lynch mob, came after us guns blazing, fairly enough claiming that our workshop had breached confidentiality agreements and wanted to sue for lost earnings. Eventually with the help of the manufacturer we bargained our way out of a court case, but our workshop had to surrender our authorised dealer status which cost us a pretty penny and forced us to send a lot of customers over to the other dealers.

    Anyways, thats my story. I dunno if it really relates to this Sunbeam situation, I dont know about their policies regarding dealers, intellectual property etc. But if its anything like what I went through Id say having the manual available online would not be great from an intellectual property viewpoint but it might also be leaving them open to a pissed off dealer network which i think theyre really pushing hard in Australia. By that I mean the free training courses their providing and here in Perth theyve got no less than ten authorised repairers! Put it into perspective, LG phones has one authorised repairer in Perth and its seriously a drive down a dark alley and knock three times on an unmarked door affair (dont get me started on LG...)

    Not taking any sides, just throwing in my two cents from someone who went through something that sounds similar. Sorry bout the length of the post! Always been something that bugged me losing that authorised dealer... I mean Ive made my peace with it, and it was fair enough, but yer, getting that phonecall to find out my mechanic had accidentally put the entire workshop at risk by being helpful... really opened my eyes to the truth about business. Its not about being a good guy or a bad guy, sometimes its about making sure your not leaving an opening for someone to take advantage of.

  36. #36
    A_M
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by 2B2E3D223C3B3D2021284F0 link=1247127310/35#35 date=1247160375
    Heh, I probably shouldnt play devils advocate with hardly any experience around here, but this is so unbelievably close to something I went through a few years ago I hope no-one minds if I relate it.

    Just a little note, Im not affiliated with sunbeam, I use their products but other than that have no loyalty one way or another. Never tried their customer support and Im about as far as you can get from being a coffee hardware guru. I just have a bit of experience with leaked manuals.

    Story is back from when I was a part owner in an automotive performance parts workshop. We were an authorised dealer for an Australian manufacturer of performance car parts (Sorry I dont mean to sound vague, but Im not going to give names, things you type on the net tend to have a habit of remaining for a long time.) A customer had a part fitted and went back up north with it, but decided he wanted to adjust it, rang us and asked for help. Normally wed get the customer to swing by and tweak the part free of charge, but because of the distance involved our mechanic who took the call emailed over a section of the service manual for the part so the customer could do it himself. The customer then quite innocently posted that part of the manual to an online forum for that make of car, to help other people in his position.

    Took about two weeks from there for the sh!t to hit the fan. Another member in the dealer network caught wind that the manual had been leaked. While my workshop was a pretty casual affair and would do small tweaks for free, his charged a tuning fee. He was not happy. He complained to the company, who was not happy. The company followed it up and through the forum got in touch with the customer and found out it was our mechanic who leaked it.

    We had a pretty good relationship with the manufacturer, and I cant speak highly enough for the local area representative who went in to bat for us when things turned nasty and the lawyers started circling. Basically the upset workshop owner plus several more hed by that time gathered together to form a lynch mob, came after us guns blazing, fairly enough claiming that our workshop had breached confidentiality agreements and wanted to sue for lost earnings. Eventually with the help of the manufacturer we bargained our way out of a court case, but our workshop had to surrender our authorised dealer status which cost us a pretty penny and forced us to send a lot of customers over to the other dealers.

    Anyways, thats my story. I dunno if it really relates to this Sunbeam situation, I dont know about their policies regarding dealers, intellectual property etc. But if its anything like what I went through Id say having the manual available online would not be great from an intellectual property viewpoint but it might also be leaving them open to a pissed off dealer network which i think theyre really pushing hard in Australia. By that I mean the free training courses their providing and here in Perth theyve got no less than ten authorised repairers! Put it into perspective, LG phones has one authorised repairer in Perth and its seriously a drive down a dark alley and knock three times on an unmarked door affair (dont get me started on LG...)

    Not taking any sides, just throwing in my two cents from someone who went through something that sounds similar. Sorry bout the length of the post! Always been something that bugged me losing that authorised dealer... I mean Ive made my peace with it, and it was fair enough, but yer, getting that phonecall to find out my mechanic had accidentally put the entire workshop at risk by being helpful... really opened my eyes to the truth about business. Its not about being a good guy or a bad guy, sometimes its about making sure your not leaving an opening for someone to take advantage of.
    I would suggest that most of us... Including Andy would agree and support your comments...

    As a strong supporter of the EM 6910 and until recently Sunbeam... The issue for me is that their support for a highly marketed product has not been as positive and very hit and miss depending on who you might get.

    In addition... The so called manual is a parts list... *Nothing more.. *No instructions, no values, no supplier information etc etc.... *Even the electronics is not a detailed drawing etc etc

    A parts list, nothing more or less. *Then if you look at CS and the support provided to Sunbeam customers and the effort taken to ensure the product is used correctly and thus reduce warranty and other calls to Sunbeam for HELP...

    One would have thought they could have approached it differently...

    If it was a company call and there was something in the Parts list they did not want people to know.. *A smart deal would have been to be Open with Andy and offer something in return...

    Every one would have been happy and Sunbeam would not get slammed along with even more positive support form many within CS...

    As it is, an e-mail sent with little thought and just a TACT *approach- has damaged the *Sunbeam rep more than they might realise.


    Technical Ass Covering Today (TACT )

  37. #37
    A_M
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by 5F707A671E0 link=1247127310/33#33 date=1247147969
    Quote Originally Posted by 0D2C2727203A490 link=1247127310/24#24 date=1247144053
    Hes not at work at the moment - but does have voicemail.
    **Cack**


    Really, I think it was a fair request but common sense should have told Welly that Sunbeam get far more good exposure than bad exposure in CoffeeSnobs and poking a stick in the ants nest was just plain silly.

    I still fail to see what they think they are protecting by asking a local coffee community forum to remove it while it is freely available all over the internet.

    Oh yeah I forgot to say...

    SUNBEAM SUX
    Oh did they also hit up the other coffee forums, that also have much to do with the Sunbeam EM6910 and also promote the said download ??? *

    Or was this a direct approach to CS alone... * Maybe CS it getting too big :-)

  38. #38
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Actually I think the way in which the Sunbeam rep approached this was quite good. I used to work for an internet service provider, and these kind of things usually arrived with a solicitors letterhead threatening litigation if the offending material was not removed immediately.

    Welly simply asked politely.

    This "service manual" is after all, their copyright and no one here sought their permission to distribute it so I dont see any problem with asking it to be removed.

    yes, this forum gives them a lot of exposure and Im sure tens if not hundreds of machines have been sold as a result of this forum. Engaging with the community a bit more would be nice.

    I just think its a little unfair to start bashing them because of this.

  39. #39
    TC
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Did somebody use a pdf editor and include the word Tibet? :-?

  40. #40
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by 3633203F2126203D3C35520 link=1247127310/35#35 date=1247160375
    getting that phonecall to find out my mechanic had accidentally put the entire workshop at risk by being helpful...

    really opened my eyes to the truth about business. Its not about being a good guy or a bad guy, sometimes its about making sure your not leaving an opening for someone to take advantage of.
    yeah i kind of agree with this post, we know sunbeams are both good and bad in ways, they have asked CS (Andy) to remove the material its still out there in PM land.

    someone host it on "megadownlad" etc etc and pass on a link to those that ask

    IMO delete the thread too..........those weasels (lawyers) have a way of figuring out ways to get you.

    not saying SB would be bothered but...... no one wants the grief of it do they?


  41. #41
    A_M
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by 505C555858513D0 link=1247127310/40#40 date=1247181932
    Quote Originally Posted by 3633203F2126203D3C35520 link=1247127310/35#35 date=1247160375
    getting that phonecall to find out my mechanic had accidentally put the entire workshop at risk by being helpful...

    really opened my eyes to the truth about business. Its not about being a good guy or a bad guy, sometimes its about making sure your not leaving an opening for someone to take advantage of.
    yeah i kind of agree with this post, we know sunbeams are both good and bad in ways, they have asked CS (Andy) to remove the material its still out there in PM land.

    someone host it on "megadownlad" etc etc and pass on a link to those that ask

    IMO delete the thread too..........those weasels (lawyers) have a way of figuring out ways to get you.

    not saying SB would be bothered but...... no one wants the grief of it do they?
    The other issue is that the Parts list/ Manual / Service Manual etc etc has been posted and uploaded a number of times...

    Where it has the same name the forum will block it as it is identified as being on teh system... However, people then just rename the file and attach as another name... But it still the same product / document / pdf but stored under a different name on the server.....

    For the CS forum to be totally clean.. *

    Andy will have to trawl all the uploaded PDFs and potentially look at more than a few to clean the system... Further more he will have to trawl every post and then remove that post or topic or implied link... Lots of work for someone..


    At the end of the day, regardless of a nice request or otherwise... *

    The person who sent it could have managed it much better and retained a good working relationship on the forum.


    AM

  42. #42
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    The request was not unreasonable but as noted on other posts its still out there in WWW land

    Just as a comparison on company policy
    If one goes to the Barazi Bezzera site a full parts list schematic is available on all current Bezzera machines *

    KK

  43. #43
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by 496D646467675D496D716F6D020 link=1247127310/42#42 date=1247182685
    The request was not unreasonable but as noted on other posts its still out there in WWW land

    If one goes to the Barazi Bezzera site a full parts list schematic is available on all current machines *

    KK

    Yea... but they are client focused and a sponsor... Besides, who needs the full parts list schematics except for consumables... They dont break down ;D

  44. #44
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by 2D2F232B2B25223F4C0 link=1247127310/38#38 date=1247180409
    Actually I think the way in which the Sunbeam rep approached this was quite good. I used to work for an internet service provider, and these kind of things usually arrived with a solicitors letterhead threatening litigation if the offending material was not removed immediately.
    Getting an email rather than a letter from a solicitor translates to a better approach? Sorry Grant, but thats just garbage.

    Oh I know this is the way the world has become, but has anyone heard of picking up the phone first and actually talking to each other?


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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by 48676E6C7B446867686E6C646C677D090 link=1247127310/41#41 date=1247182505
    At the end of the day, regardless of a nice request or otherwise...

    The person who sent it could have managed it much better and retained a good working relationship on the forum.


    well i think he did ok with his wording, i notice (highlighted)

    kept it simple explained why and gave his contact details ?

    did not bang on about stuff etc

    Quote Originally Posted by 48676D70090 link=1247127310/0#0 date=1247127310
    Andy,

    My name is Welly Khouw and work for Sunbeam Corporation Limited.

    I noticed that you have a copy of the service manual of EM6910 as per link below.


    Please note that the documentation is confidential and commercially sensitive. Can you please take it of your website immediately.

    Thanks


    Regards,
    Welly Khouw [ch35377][ch20553][ch21033]
    Service Manager, Sunbeam Corporation Limited

  46. #46
    A_M
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by 58545D505059350 link=1247127310/45#45 date=1247184040
    well i think he did ok with his wording, i notice (highlighted)

    kept it simple explained why and gave his contact details ?

    did not bang on about stuff etc *
    Do not disagree... However the point is a mute one... *e-mail and emotions and reading between teh lines is what causes misunderstandings and stress for all..

    As a [s]bercurate[/s] contract manager and paper pusher (ex government in teh medical field) :-) *Still think it could have been managed much better and a positive marketing outcome.. *As I said before TACT...

    Just look at all the posts on this subject.


    Quote Originally Posted by 71505B5B5C46350 link=1247127310/44#44 date=1247183974
    Quote Originally Posted by 2D2F232B2B25223F4C0 link=1247127310/38#38 date=1247180409
    Actually I think the way in which the Sunbeam rep approached this was quite good. I used to work for an internet service provider, and these kind of things usually arrived with a solicitors letterhead threatening litigation if the offending material was not removed immediately.
    Getting an email rather than a letter from a solicitor translates to a better approach? *Sorry Grant, but thats just garbage.

    Oh I know this is the way the world has become, but has anyone heard of picking up the phone first and actually talking to each other?

    *
    You mean Human to Human ?

    Sorry, it is becoming a lost art; as you can be any one - on the net and behind an e-mail *::)

  47. #47
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by 0C232A283F002C232C2A28202823394D0 link=1247127310/46#46 date=1247184554
    Just look at all the posts on this subject.
    I am, and I think people are overreacting.

    Quote Originally Posted by 09282323243E4D0 link=1247127310/44#44 date=1247183974
    Getting an email rather than a letter from a solicitor translates to a better approach?Sorry Grant, but thats just garbage.
    Yeah, it may not be as personable, but it means theres a written record of the request. A phone call 12 months down the track when you need to provide proof is largely useless. OK, so maybe an email following up on the phone call.

    Dont forget, this is a company who until recently were known for excellent after sales customer service, provided FREE training with purchase of their equipment and whose product made real espresso very accessible at home. Yes, there was always silvia and other low end machines, but they dont have the exposure that Sunbeam do.

    Just because theyre tightening their belt when it comes to after sales service in an economic downturn and request a single PDF be removed, everyone starts bashing them? Talk about mob mentality!

  48. #48
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    A smart deal would have been to be Open with Andy and offer something in return...
    Saw that and I thought it sounded a little odd... far too productive a suggestion for an internet forum *;) Then read the bit about ex-government contracts manager and illumination was shone, your one of my kind! Im a crat with the SS agency in Perth. (Starting to suspect there might be a few government employees around these parts, dependance on the brown bean before wading into the fray seems to be an occupational hazard.)

    Not wanting to make work for anyone but also not wanting to overstep my bounds either, can I make a suggestion? How about "engaging in a dialouge". AMs suggestion of asking for something in return is an excellent one, plus opening up communication between Australias biggest coffee machine manufacturer and Australias biggest coffee consumer forum cant be a bad thing. Perhaps an email to them saying something along the lines of "wed like to work together on this one" and see their response. At best it could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship and at worst Id be really curious to see the response, at the moment were all (myself included) trying to read between the lines on a very short email.

    As for the email itself I gotta side with Maheel, its really quite pleasant compared to a letter of demand that could have been sent in its place. Has a Please n Thankyou plus Welly left his personal contact details. My only bugbear is not using a salutation. I know its the way the wind blows these days in business communications, but when people leave out a simple "Hi" I feel it always reads like a drill instructor bellowing your name. And as for why we got emailed, google search on "EM6910 service manual" to find the smoking gun... yeah ok, I admit I was curious to see the manual causing the fuss.

    Although that said, Im starting to suspect that perhaps sunbeam is reading the forum. Have a looky at what I found in my new EM0480 grinder. Didnt find any mention of it in the parts list, seems theyve just started throwing them in with the grinders. *sorry about putting them in as attachments and the camera phone quality, for those who cant be bothered clicking, the mod to the EM0480s of attaching a extra bit of piping to guide the grinds all the way into the receptical appears to now be factory supported*

    Like I said, Im not gonna be a one eyed supporter one way or another, and if my machine goes wrong and I get treated harshly expect me to be wandering around here beating the war drum, but at the moment Ive got a machine that makes a pretty darn fine expresso plus a free grinder (bargained my way into getting the grinder thrown in with the 6910 at harvey normans). Came with a training DVD, good manual and a training course. 12 month warranty and 3 year warranty on the pump with ten service centres in the state, and cost $300 less than the competition. And I gotta say, as a diehard tinkerer my heart did flutter a little when I realised a major manufacturer had taken on board a modification that was created by their consumers, most places tend to create their product and leave it at that. Oh, and just on the topic of the grinder, been noticing some folks have been reporting the grind selector didnt line up so was looking for it on mine. I dunno if I just got lucky or if there has been a factory reworking, but mine lines nicely atm, will be keeping an eye on it and reporting again tho.

    Im guessing most folks in my position are going to probably make the same choice I did, and yeah, itll definately be in my interest if Sunbeam worked with the forum, but I think it might be in the interest of quite a few members. But approaching them about this is just an idea, I dont wanna be overstepping my bounds.

  49. #49
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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Just a little afternote,

    Really sorry bout my post lengths! Im sorting out a new coffee setup as some mighta noticed and Im a little wired ;D




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    Re: Sunbeam sucks!

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    As fun as its been reading this, my concern is that there may be aspects of what has been written here which may attract the attention of lawyers regarding a public bagging of either individuals (Welly/Wally) or a corporation as a whole.

    I like Cafe Racers thought...seeking to open a meaningful dialogue despite what has bean perceived to be an aggressive approach can have positive flow ons. What is the least that can happen..they dont respond? Then we have lost nothing.

    But I would be seeking to trawl through this thread and at the very least remove those words which may draw the vultures, which could certainly have severe ramifications for this forum.



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