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Thread: Double dipping - Got to love it.. Works for all

  1. #1
    A_M
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    Double dipping - Got to love it.. Works for all

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Warranty or Billing

    Cockroach issues:

    Spilt coffee / coffee grinds / dust and exploded groups... Thus many brown splatters and teh average tecs can not tell - dont care..... OR do not want to.

    Power Strike: Prove it either way - Yea or Na (average tecs can not tell - makes an guess at best)

    User generated: Not always so easy to determine..

    Other Warranty claims: ?????

    1: Service Agent Quotes = Bills a standard fee under warranty to the Importer / Manufacturer....

    2: Service Agent advises user = $270 as due to cockroaches / user etc / not covered under warranty etc ..

    3: User says YES - Go a head - Do teh repair....

    4: Service Agent does repair = Bills User for $270

    5: Service Agent bills Importer / Manufacturer for warranty repair :o :o :o :o

    Is every one happy...

    A: User is pissed with Importer / Manufacturer
    B: Importer / Manufacturer is non teh wiser
    C: Service agent has a smile a mile wide :-)

    Welcome to let all play creative accountancy with few cheques and balances...

    Well here is ONE method to make it a bit more of an even playing field....

    If your paying for it; DEMAND to have the faulty part handed over at the end of teh process.. If possible... Mark it before hand... Not un comon to give dead parts from another system / user ::)

    Where expensive parts are in question - The Importer / Manufacturer usually wants them back.. And thus their only way to try to manage their costs.. What the service agent does or does not do is an issue of ethics and morals of teh service agent..


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    TC
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    Re: Double dipping - Got to love it.. Works for all

    We always offer the dead parts to the user and I am delighted for them to go back in somebody elses bin ::)

    In the case of warranty claims, the parts go back to the importer- and usually then to the manufacturer.

    As for what the appliance companies do, dunno, dun care....

    As far as Im concerned, if youre paying, you can do what you like with the bits. If were paying, we repair the machine and you take it ;)

    I am sure that all CS sponsors act with a whole heap more integrity than dodgy bros. inc. *;D

    Chris

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Double dipping - Got to love it.. Works for all

    Quote Originally Posted by 784D4047736F434A4A49492C0 link=1276653145/1#1 date=1276657542
    We always offer the dead parts to the user
    Maybe AM was referring to Sunbeam agents Chris? ::)

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    Re: Double dipping - Got to love it.. Works for all

    Quote Originally Posted by 1D3C3737302A590 link=1276653145/2#2 date=1276658092
    Quote Originally Posted by 784D4047736F434A4A49492C0 link=1276653145/1#1 date=1276657542
    We always offer the dead parts to the user
    Maybe AM was referring to Sunbeam agents Chris? *::)
    Thanks Den... ;)

    Ooooo *I did not name names.... But it is possible that some Service Agents that might do this sort of thing might *have a large number of importers / manufacturers that they provide a service for and I guess Sunbeam could be one of them *:-X


    I am still amazed that even with car services that many do not ask or expect to see the dead parts etc..

    My car never went in with out any number of traps... Sorry... Quality Audit points identified.

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Double dipping - Got to love it.. Works for all

    Quote Originally Posted by 06292022350A26292620222A222933470 link=1276653145/3#3 date=1276659107
    I did not name names.
    Very true and sorry if it seemed I was putting words in your mouth. I was just adding 2+2 together to get 5. ;) ;D


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    Re: Double dipping - Got to love it.. Works for all

    Quote Originally Posted by 05242F2F2832410 link=1276653145/4#4 date=1276664886
    Quote Originally Posted by 06292022350A26292620222A222933470 link=1276653145/3#3 date=1276659107
    I did not name names.
    Very true and sorry if it seemed I was putting words in your mouth. *I was just adding 2+2 together to get 5. ;) *;D
    Yep, all OK... I got where you might have been leaning to... Good maths always helps *;)


    But depending on the value of the 2s it could be others as well... *I am sure you would agree; that it would not be isolated to one product and or *imported/manufacturer....


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    Re: Double dipping - Got to love it.. Works for all

    Quick AM, before there is a rush, how do I get a job like that where I can charge twice, and get paid twice, for the same job.... ;)

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    Re: Double dipping - Got to love it.. Works for all

    Quote Originally Posted by 6C5B4242475A5A2E0 link=1276653145/6#6 date=1276725101
    Quick AM, before there is a rush, how do I get a job like that where I can charge twice, and get paid twice, for the same job.... ;)
    Not every one is open / honest..

    Times get tight... They do not see it as wrong... They see A big company that can afford it so see it as taping the company not the user..

    Like insurance scams and other things... People that often do it; do not see it as wrong, but as getting something back.. Talk to any shop lifter man the majority will say that DJ / Myer / Coles/ Woolworth etc can afford it they have insurance..

    Not saying those companies and others are Clean.... But the reasons given do not excuse the actions.

    Secondly... I doubt that the Double Dipping happens every time.. But when opportunity presents and a platter... How many little service agents/places can look the other way.. Is it a management action or one of the person in charge or just the tec ?

    Just know ya rights when it comes to warranty and paying for stuff..

    PS. A motorbike mechanic I worked for (about 3 days) would get dead bits from teh wreckers.. 2/3 of teh work that was done was nothing more than OVER charging for work not done..

    The work was good and things fixed... But most got an extra added on...

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    Re: Double dipping - Got to love it.. Works for all

    AM

    i dont disagree that dodgy stuff goes on in many places i have seen it, maybe even done it.......

    but if you were the service agent for a major brand with 100s of jobs coming in the door because XYZ.pty ltd had set up a contract with you.
    which could easily be 80% of the work you do in some cases.

    are you sure they would be trying to rip off the hand that feeds them? if they were to be caught most of there work would be gone and their business as well.

    as for getting paid for warranty claims (the service agent getting paid) the amount you can charge is normally set by the manufacturer. eg replace clutch on new landcrusier, toyota pays dealer service XXX$ for Xhrs work no more no less. if a slow mechanic spends more time or has a problem repairing well thats the dealers problem. I have worked in this area for a while and its normally a lot less than you would charge the customer for a same job.

    I can only assume coffee machine sellers have a similar arrangement.

    maybe you should have reported the mechanic to the fair trading office.

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    Re: Double dipping - Got to love it.. Works for all

    Quote Originally Posted by 303C353838315D0 link=1276653145/8#8 date=1276738813
    are you sure they would be trying to rip off the hand that feeds them? if they were to be caught most of there work would be gone and their business as well.
    YES..

    Opps... How many pollies / sports peopel double dip and what happens... NOTHING.. In fact; many get rewarded for it...

    Quote Originally Posted by 303C353838315D0 link=1276653145/8#8 date=1276738813
    *the amount you can charge is normally set by the manufacturer.
    YES... And ya point is , poor contract management skills ?

    Besides when the contract amount might, in some cases, be so pitiful for a warranty repair... I can understand why some say - NOT warranty..

    Quote Originally Posted by 303C353838315D0 link=1276653145/8#8 date=1276738813
    maybe you should have reported the mechanic to the fair trading office
    Further more unless ya get 2Day2Night or CA to get or another body involved. As the average poor Joe; no one really cares...

    My first hand experience back then was all new to me... He did a great job... Worked hard for locals in teh town, well respected... But visitors and tourists and any other unknown got ripped big time...... (Best motor bike mechanic I ever knew)

    If ya have issues, take it up with those involved...

    I am not here to debate what is correct or not.. Just stating a fact in relation to observations; that some should look at the warranty work or non warranty work that they expect to be done from some suppliers.....


    I am just reminding people, to go into Warranty / Not warranty claims; with their eyes open....


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    Re: Double dipping - Got to love it.. Works for all

    well i think your rant is painting all service agents with the same brush

    unless you have proof a service agent is doing this why post it?
    you should be complaining to the importer / manufacturer to start with, they would be most interested in your proof i would think.

    site sponsors are defending their procedure against what you are suggesting might be common practice. Most agents regardless of sponsor or not mostly have the customers interests in mind.

    although its a nanny state most do have their eyes open, its just many are apathetic to poor service.

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    Re: Double dipping - Got to love it.. Works for all

    If this thread related to behaviours in other industries, it should be in the off topic forum.

    Clearly, by placing the thread here, AM is implying that it relates to the coffee industry.

    Yesterday, I stated that I couldnt give two hoots about what the coffee appliance industry does with warranty and repair processes nor for the machines they produce for that matter. My thoughts have not changed.

    A couple of months ago, I received a very old Giotto (a NZ one) with a dead RL-30 board. ECA dont supply them anymore. It just so happened that I had a old and perfectly servicable board with minimal use hanging around. Owner saved a heap as the replacement board is over 2 x the price and a new loom would have been required as well. Everyone won and the owner threw the old bits in my bin..

    The implication of a thread here is that this issue is affecting members and therefore that sponsors are involved. My thoughts are put up or shut up (or take it up with your appliance manufacturer)... :-?

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    Re: Double dipping - Got to love it.. Works for all

    Quote Originally Posted by 303C353838315D0 link=1276653145/10#10 date=1276750245
    well i think your rant is painting all service agents with the same brush
    Really *:-?

    I would suggest the majority of service agents are doing their best..

    Quote Originally Posted by 303C353838315D0 link=1276653145/10#10 date=1276750245
    unless you have proof a service agent is doing this why post it? *
    What makes you think I have not already done so as to the Importer and the Authorities ???

    In addition to another complaint re a formal breach of the Electrical Safety act..

    Unlike some.. I act on my commitments and responsibilities.

    AND as Den implied and rightly so....... http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1276653145/4#4


    I am not naming... The courts and relevant publications do that...

    Quote Originally Posted by 303C353838315D0 link=1276653145/10#10 date=1276750245
    site sponsors are defending their procedure against what you are suggesting might be common practice. Most agents regardless of sponsor or not mostly have the customers interests in mind.
    Only two Sponsors have commented and one I think, did the maths.. Got top marks as well..

    Sorry... If I had a problem with a sponsor... On this subject. You would not read about it here...

    " have the customers interests in mind." ya maybe, but lets not put a value on it...In the real world... *Most of the suppliers have Business outcomes as their primary goal... Very few can afford to ignore the bank and their financial commitments..

    As I said before...

    I am just reminding people, to go into Warranty / Not warranty claims; with their eyes open....
    Plenty of COFFEE machines and USERS that are not *involved with the sponsors.. *I thought it was about Coffee not *a Sponsor user/client forum...

    If your happy for them (users and public) *to have rose coloured glasses on.. *Your entitled to your opinion.....

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    Re: Double dipping - Got to love it.. Works for all

    Time for a group viewing of Conspiracy theory I reckon ::)

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Double dipping - Got to love it.. Works for all

    There are service agents and then there are Site Sponsors. And I dont think ever the twain shall meet!

    For example, I recently sold a Lelit that made its way to QLD only to find that it had a dead solenoid on arrival. Its the first time Ive ever sold a machine that needed a warranty repair.

    I paid for the machine to be couriered back to me, and to prevent any delay, sent a new one, again at my expense as a replacement. A four day turnover. The kicker was that the owner ended up with two panarellas and had managed to scratch the stainless in the short time the original machine was in his possession. It took over two weeks for the panarella to be returned to me, and the scratched unit is now my demo machine and humming along nicely.

    Im not blowing my own trumpet (though those blasted World Cup horns are still ringing in my ears) and not complaining either.

    I only mention this example (and I have plenty more) as I think its a fairly typical of the level of service that Site Sponsors provide.


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    Re: Double dipping - Got to love it.. Works for all

    you didnt name a name, your using a broad brush *

    yep sponsors commented thats plural

    you didnt say you reported them 1st up

    looks to me like your implying its widespread behavior..... *

    your rants growing............

    meh

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    Re: Double dipping - Got to love it.. Works for all

    Quote Originally Posted by 634249494E54270 link=1276653145/14#14 date=1276755280
    Im not blowing my own trumpet (though those blasted World Cup horns are still ringing in my ears) and not complaining either. *

    I only mention this example (and I have plenty more) as I think its a fairly typical of the level of service that Site Sponsors provide.
    Agree fully.....


    Quote Originally Posted by 4A464F42424B270 link=1276653145/15#15 date=1276756081
    your rants growing............

    meh
    AND

    Quote Originally Posted by 4A464F42424B270 link=1276653145/8#8 date=1276738813
    AM

    i dont disagree that dodgy stuff goes on in many places i have seen it, maybe even done it.......

    Enough said.... *::)

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    Re: Double dipping - Got to love it.. Works for all

    Quote Originally Posted by 16393032251A36393630323A323923570 link=1276653145/16#16 date=1276757306
    Quote Originally Posted by 4A464F42424B270 link=1276653145/8#8 date=1276738813
    AM

    i dont disagree that dodgy stuff goes on in many places i have seen it, maybe even done it.......

    Enough said.... *::) *

    yeah i admit it, i have done dodgy things. i even sold ice that was not ice to Eskimos and worse. least i admitted it up front, and it was when I was young and dumb and worked for idiots (who may have pressured me to do what they wanted)

    #now rule no 1 is: i dont work for idiots any more (or ever again)

    you have never done something dodgy?

    what i am saying is unless you name a name (service agent) your implying its widespread and could even be happening at sponsors

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    Re: Double dipping - Got to love it.. Works for all

    Quote Originally Posted by 7D717875757C100 link=1276653145/17#17 date=1276757875
    you have never done something dodgy?
    Maybe *;) *Join CS *:o


    Quote Originally Posted by 7D717875757C100 link=1276653145/17#17 date=1276757875
    what i am saying is unless you name a name (service agent) your implying its widespread and could even be happening at sponsors
    There is the option for this behaviour to happen every where and every day..

    Qld based NON sponsor coffee service centre has been identified as per observations that suggest breaches of *the electrical safety requirements...

    As part of a follow-up to a clients complaint; A NON sponsor service agent *that looks after any number of appliances; including coffee machines from different importers... *in under review / audit of processes..

    As stated / implied before...

    Names can only be made public once the matter has been fully dealt with... Even then; it is not always made public as circumstances are always changing *::) *The Electrical commission only publish where they think it will be of a warning to others..

    Another contractor in Qld has just been fined and under work type restrictions.. But still kept their licence; be it now restricted, for the moment.... Name not made public!!!

    A service agent gets a slap on the wrist for breaching contract conditions.. *Some work may / does gets taken away... Are the public and other imported advised... NO... It is between the Service agent and the Importer involved...

    If warranty... Then you usually do not get any parts back...

    If you pay for parts etc... Your the owner and have the right to have those parts handed over.. *The service agent does not own them... You do..

  20. #20
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Double dipping - Got to love it.. Works for all

    AM, sometimes I think you started this thread just to wind people up. And if so, it seems to have worked. ;D

    The fact that there are, and always will be, dodgy repairers is no revelation and has been happening since Moses was a boy. Despite any and all legislation that is, or will ever be in place, it will continue to occur. Everyone knows it, and its by no means limited to coffee related gear.

    The warning or advice you give here, while correct, is the stuff that is regurgitated every now and then on what we loosely call current affairs programs.

    Cheers!


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    Re: Double dipping - Got to love it.. Works for all

    Quote Originally Posted by 48696262657F0C0 link=1276653145/19#19 date=1276762652
    AM, sometimes I think you started this thread just to wind people up. *And if so, it seems to have worked. *;D

    The fact that there are, and always will be, dodgy repairers is no revelation and has been happening since Moses was a boy. *Despite any and all legislation that is, or will ever be in place, it will continue to occur. *Everyone knows it, and its by no means limited to coffee related gear.

    The warning or advice you give here, while correct, is the stuff that is regurgitated every now and then on what we loosely call current affairs programs.

    Cheers!
    No... Not to stir...

    A reminder; as it just happened again up here and people I know first hand are involved... And no, many today fail to understand that not every one is their best friend...

    But for some reason/s - *people seem to panic / jump to strange conclusions; when I post.

    However to imply that the current affairs programs actually care ... leaves me shaking in my boots... *Not to say they dont stir the pot... But way to much paid advertising.

    In essence - I agree / concur fully with your post above; as a closing comment...


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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Double dipping - Got to love it.. Works for all

    Quote Originally Posted by 76595052457A56595650525A525943370 link=1276653145/20#20 date=1276763397
    But for some reason/s -people seem to panic / jump to strange conclusions; when I post.
    In a past profession, it was suggested, "When 9 out of 10 people misunderstand, then theres a problem with the delivery. When 1 out of 10 people misunderstand, the problem is likely to be that one individual."

    We have had our differences. Im sure they will continue, as there are times when I think you may have forgotten to take your meds, or that I may need to increase the dosage of mine.

    Im also sure your heart is in the right place.


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    Re: Double dipping - Got to love it.. Works for all

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by 79585353544E3D0 link=1276653145/21#21 date=1276763984
    Quote Originally Posted by 76595052457A56595650525A525943370 link=1276653145/20#20 date=1276763397
    But for some reason/s -people seem to panic / jump to strange conclusions; when I post.
    In a past profession, it was suggested, "When 9 out of 10 people misunderstand, then theres a *problem with the delivery. *When 1 out of 10 people misunderstand, the problem is likely to be that one individual."

    We have had our differences. *Im sure they will continue, as there are times when I think you may have forgotten to take your meds, or that I may need to increase the dosage of mine.

    Im also sure your heart is in the right place.
    WELL SAID.......

    "and ditto"- there are times when I think you may have forgotten to take your meds, or that I may need to increase/ double the dosage of mine ;)



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