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Thread: Production Rate On a Single Group Machine?

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    Production Rate On a Single Group Machine?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    most cpmmercial single group machines (commercial NOT prosumer) will do 40-60 per hour in regards to water volume, steam, heatup time and element size, eg my rancillio s27, 4 litre boiler, rated 60 per hour, if you can grind, tamp, etc at that rate. Prosumer machines usually have 1.5-2 litre boilers, so not sure what the recovery times on those would be like.

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    Re: Production Rate On a Single Group Machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by 01061717061102170B0C0E06630 link=1305005582/6#6 date=1305305564
    if you can grind, tamp, etc at that rate.
    Thats a very big if... ;)

    Were talking rates which would generate $8-10k (coffee only) in a cafe from a 1 group machine. Very few (if any) operators would be able to manage 40-50 from any 1 group, let alone a domestic machine.

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    Re: Production Rate On a Single Group Machine?

    My comments are general and not directed at this particular make of machine.

    Dont know how some of these ratings are determined, though feel they are pretty irrelevant.* Whether in a commercial or domestic situation, coffee isnt prepared at regular intervals.

    In my own commercial situation we will usually get hammered at a particular hour on a Saturday, and at home, we may want to prepare 6-8 coffees throughout the day, or consecutively for guests.

    I think its more important to know and understand how any machine will behave with these irregularities.

    Anyway if anyone is hell bent on ratings per hour, on a non-commercial HX machine, with or without PID, try pouring off say 100ml of water from the group, steam for 30 seconds, then repeat the process every minute.* I think you may change your view on how many coffees you and your machine can produce in an hour at an acceptable temperature for extractions.

    The machine for sale reminds me of the Andreja, a very nice machine.

    All the best with the sale!


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    Re: Production Rate On a Single Group Machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by 7B243C2A212A262F2F2C2C242827490 link=1305005582/7#7 date=1305320906
    Quote Originally Posted by 01061717061102170B0C0E06630 link=1305005582/6#6 date=1305305564
    if you can grind, tamp, etc at that rate.
    Thats a very big if... ;)

    Were talking rates which would generate $8-10k (coffee only) in a cafe from a 1 group machine. Very few (if any) operators would be able to manage 40-50 from any 1 group, let alone a domestic machine.

    i think you havent seen a good barista!

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    Re: Production Rate On a Single Group Machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by 16322838333A5B0 link=1305005582/9#9 date=1305329396
    i think you havent seen a good barista!
    :-? Your hand and any of my one group machines any day you like Misha.

    BYO grinder, just so youre in your comfort zone.

    Im well over a million shots in and the last time I pushed a machine, it was well over a kilo per hour for 8 hours straight. ::)

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    Re: Production Rate On a Single Group Machine?

    60 shots an hour from any single group machine is just about mathematically impossible, say nearly 30 secs for the pour, leaves you 30 secs to grind, dose, tamp, lock in, empty portafilter, wipe clean, draw breath & start again.

    I will have $100 with Chris thanks!

    Interesting sounding machine by the way, should go in a flash i imagine.

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    Re: Production Rate On a Single Group Machine?

    [movedhere] Coffee Hardware For Sale [move by] Mal.

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    Re: Production Rate On a Single Group Machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by 7274796078746C150 link=1305305565/5#5 date=1305352080
    60 shots an hour from any single group machine is just about mathematically impossible,
    Are we assuming that all drinks have a double espresso base?

    A 6 - 8 ounce drink may only require one, so there is always the possibility of making 2 drinks at once.

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    Re: Production Rate On a Single Group Machine?

    Ive been trying to resist jumping in, but now this thread has split...

    Galumay, with my grinder back in the default grind one dose ahead config, that would be one less thing to worry about.

    The original target was 40-50 coffees an hour. Even at 60 that is only 30 double shots into two separate cups. At that rate it seems quite achievable. There would even be time to steam an occasional hot milk for the girlie men that cant take real coffee ;D Especially so considering Chris can keep up a rate of 1kg/hr for 8hr. Assuming 25gm per double shot that would be 80 coffees an hour, or 640 in the day. You only need to be 75% as quick as Chris and only for 12.5% as long.

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    Re: Production Rate On a Single Group Machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by 565E50585A40405C5058330 link=1305305565/8#8 date=1305361768
    Assuming 25gm per double shot that would be 80 coffees an hour, or 640 in the day.
    Not something I am ever planning on doing again and at a cost to quality. Think full dosers and mass production strategies. These days Id rather make a few good ones than many decidedly average ones and nope, Ill never do cattle runs for an Aromafest again.

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    Re: Production Rate On a Single Group Machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by 060E00080A10100C0008630 link=1305305565/8#8 date=1305361768
    Ive been trying to resist jumping in, but now this thread has split...

    Galumay, with my grinder back in the default grind one dose ahead config,* that would be one less thing to worry about.

    The original target was 40-50 coffees an hour. Even at 60 that is only 30 double shots into two separate cups. At that rate it seems quite achievable. There would even be time to steam an occasional hot milk for the girlie men that cant take real coffee ;D Especially so considering Chris can keep up a rate of 1kg/hr for 8hr. Assuming 25gm per double shot that would be 80 coffees an hour, or 640 in the day. You only need to be 75% as quick as Chris and only for 12.5% as long.
    I must admit i hadnt considered the potential of singles, I didnt think anyone drank them in Australia!

    Mind you if you use 25gm of coffee per pour, thats basically a quadruple so you could get 2 doubles out of it if you could actually cram that much coffee in a basket!

    Takes the nouveau habit of overdosing to new levels though!!

    Anyway, I think you have exposed my claim of mathematical impossibility as bollocks, so I will resort to stating that i cant imagine why anyone would wish to try and pull 60 coffees per hour on a single group machine.

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    Re: Production Rate On a Single Group Machine?

    Im with you Galumay,

    Regardless of what the machine is rated, its simply impossible. With a multi group machine, yes- doable but with a one group in the real world with a variety of requests, forget it. I think the original question was a somewhat unrealistic one ::)

    Ill pass on the hundy on me!

    Chris

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    Re: Production Rate On a Single Group Machine?

    Dont know about a pumped machine but with the slight extra delay on a Lever just under the 2 minutes with a double base is possible JUST. So work on a max of 40 if your good and 30 is more feasible and realistic for a single operator with reasonable skills to keep up. To do this you are still going to need a 4 or 5L boiler running on full power at a minimum.

    If you NEED to punch out more than this then with a second on milk while one does shots you MAY get near the theoretical 60 an hour but then the machine will likely fall over on boiler recovery I suspect.

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    Re: Production Rate On a Single Group Machine?

    The reason I ask is that I sometimes (twice a month at most) I make coffee for a large group of people and for the rest of the time the machine will (ideally) sit in my kitchen. I currently use a very old (and cheap) 2nd hand 2grp boema that does a so so job. I want something that is a bit more portable. It seems a waste to go all out for a machine that will only be used to its potential very rarely.
    I tried searching for a thread that would point me in the right direction but im a bit SE challenged

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    Re: Production Rate On a Single Group Machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by 27212C352D2139400 link=1305305565/10#10 date=1305370864
    Mind you if you use 25gm of coffee per pour, thats basically a quadruple so you could get 2 doubles out of it if you could actually cram that much coffee in a basket!
    There are 28g baskets available. I have a whole pile of them sitting here for 58mm portafilters. :)


    Java "Hhhmmmm...Quad shots from a bottomless. Yums!" phile

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    Re: Production Rate On a Single Group Machine?

    Oh, and I should mention that I have a friend who does the milk and I do make two coffees from one 18g basket just to keep up with the demand as the second group doesnt work on the Boema anyway :(

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    Re: Production Rate On a Single Group Machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6E7A696C080 link=1305305565/15#15 date=1305373392
    the second group doesnt work on the Boema anyway
    But what you have going for you is the reserve of power with the bigger boiler from the 2 group ;)

    Maybe worth your while looking at a 2grp compact to keep the bench space needed down but still give you a bit more poke for your ocasional job. Also a little more room for 2 of you to work on the machine.

    Size matters ::)

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    Re: Production Rate On a Single Group Machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by 24302326420 link=1305305565/15#15 date=1305373392
    Oh, and I should mention that I have a friend who does the milk and I do make two coffees from one 18g basket just to keep up with the demand as the second group doesnt work on the Boema anyway :(
    Ahh....so 2 operators, not one. Id think it would struggle.

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    Re: Production Rate On a Single Group Machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2E3A292C480 link=1305305565/15#15 date=1305373392
    Oh, and I should mention that I have a friend

    I would also like it noted that I have a friend ;D

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    Re: Production Rate On a Single Group Machine?

    If you had 2 portafillers and only a few drinks with milk and making the shots 2 at a time you would still be busy.

    Assuming you didnt run out of cups :-[

    but how many group heads can a average bartista manage?

    If you had a highly trained octopus that may change things completely. ;D

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    Re: Production Rate On a Single Group Machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by 67525F586C705C55555656330 link=1305305565/4#4 date=1305330037
    Im well over a million shots in

    That would be an average of 200+ shots per day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year for 20 years

    Very impressive!

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    Re: Production Rate On a Single Group Machine?

    With credentials like that... whos to argue?

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    Re: Production Rate On a Single Group Machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1B242324392C3E3E284D0 link=1305305565/20#20 date=1305384140
    200+ shots per day...
    ...nearly my personal consumption before lunchtime average. Worse the last fews days with the Bani in the grinder at work and home.
    :P


    (Back towards the topic)

    Big rate per hour, two on the machine and low amp elements will mean the recovery will be a big problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2F282C232B213424232A4D0 link=1305305565/16#16 date=1305373731
    Maybe worth your while looking at a 2grp compact
    Yep, agree.
    Second group and more amps in the boiler should help get to those figures with far less of a sinewave effect on the brew and steam performance.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2B3F2C294D0 link=1305305565/15#15 date=1305373392
    as the second group doesnt work on the Boema anyway
    Worth getting it fixed?

    If this "very cheap" Boema could do the job then maybe spend a little of your money on getting it working on both groups to see how it keeps up?

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    Re: Production Rate On a Single Group Machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by 697D6E6B0F0 link=1305305565/13#13 date=1305373142
    I want something that is a bit more portable.
    It might only be slightly more portable than your 2 group but what about a Iberital LAnna (or Handy). 4 litre boiler, rotary pump, volumetric...

    See scoota gals review in this thread:

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1163235000

    Sniff

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    Re: Production Rate On a Single Group Machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by 7B7D7069717D651C0 link=1305305565/10#10 date=1305370864
    Mind you if you use 25gm of coffee per pour, thats basically a quadruple so you could get 2 doubles out of it if you could actually cram that much coffee in a basket!

    My thinking was to keep the maths easy and assumed something like a Synesso basket and wastage.
    If it was a regular double, that would be even more coffees in the day.


    Quote Originally Posted by 567D6A7D6C747570791C0 link=1305305565/14#14 date=1305373344
    There are 28g baskets available. I have a whole pile of them sitting here for 58mm portafilters.

    Now that sounds like what I need for my morning kick start. I currently use standard 14g baskets which actually hold 16-16.5g and that gives me a 40-50g shot.

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    Re: Production Rate On a Single Group Machine?

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    [split] [link=http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1305461208/0#0][splithere][/link][splithere_end]



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