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Thread: A Picture tells a thousand words, so what do these pictures tell me?

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    A Picture tells a thousand words, so what do these pictures tell me?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi Friends,

    These shots are coming out of an: Expobar Ruggero. Coffee Used: Merlo.
    Coffee Roasted:3-4 Days prior, so still fresh but has had time to climatize to my environment.

    The first picture, I believe is blonding. Is the only reason for this because its being pulled too long? Although it was pulled to 28-30ml. Dosing 16g, and the tamping technique seems fine. Tell me more....

    The second picture, why the dark spots?

    Also I have noticed, that my Crema dissappears rather quickly some days, I wouldent say it was sitting there that long, possibily 1minute.

    Thanks in Advance,

    Brett




  2. #2
    Super Moderator scoota_gal's Avatar
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    Re: A Picture tells a thousand words, so what do these pictures tell me?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3728293429257870707000282F342D21292C400 link=1318850575/0#0 date=1318850575
    Coffee Used: Merlo.
    Therein lies your problem... ;D ;D ;D



    Ok...so that was not helpful, I know. ;)

    So, were talking about what a bit of crema looks like after a pour...but you never said anything about the taste!

    How did it taste?

    Id be more concerned about taste than crema quite frankly. Unless of course youre planning on being the next World Latte Art champ, then you might have an issue...

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    Re: A Picture tells a thousand words, so what do these pictures tell me?

    Funny you say that, because thats where I was heading....World Latte Art Champ =-) better start with State Latte Art Champ first though..

    Taste was alright but I believe could be improved. Looking at the canvas I think its trying to tell me something, pressure problem? grind problem? temperature problem? Really though, Im just curious why it does these patterns though.


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    Re: A Picture tells a thousand words, so what do these pictures tell me?

    Scooter Girl
    Quote Originally Posted by 42525E5E45506E56505D310 link=1318850575/1#1 date=1318850890
    Therein lies your problem.
    Just registered what you wrote here, I had a laugh. Whats wrong with Merlo, go on explain......

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    Super Moderator scoota_gal's Avatar
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    Re: A Picture tells a thousand words, so what do these pictures tell me?

    Merlo, to my taste has no great flavour. The blend that most of the cafes are using is just barely strong enough to be cutting through the milk and be called coffee.

    Ive not had it as an espresso and dont think Id even bother considering what I have tried.

    My own home roasted coffee is about a gazillion miles better than Merlo, IMHO. As far as my tastes go, Merlo and a dozen other or more roasters are roasting coffee for those who like hot milk. If I must drink a coffee with milk then I at least would like to taste the coffee!!

    For example, the feedback I got from a function I catered for on Sunday just gone was high praise for the coffee. What blend was I using...Espresso Wow of course!!

    Ill have a look at my own crema today when Im churning out coffee at work and let you know if I get anything similar... ;)

    Though, my guess at your second picture is probably a bit of under extraction and the darker spots are the oils staining your crema.

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    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: A Picture tells a thousand words, so what do these pictures tell me?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5F40415C414D101818186840475C45494144280 link=1318850575/0#0 date=1318850575
    it was pulled to 28-30ml. Dosing 16g
    With 16g of coffee you should be getting ~60ml in ~30 seconds. Try adjusting your grind to get those results and see what happens with the crema.


    Java "Fun with variables." phile

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    Senior Member sidewayss's Avatar
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    Re: A Picture tells a thousand words, so what do these pictures tell me?

    OT.

    Im not keen on merlo either. :P

    I prefer a more full bodied cabernet or a shiraz, also preferably Australian due to their more up frontal and mid fruity palate. ;D ;D

    Oh dear, sorry. I just had to throw that in. Made my day though.

    Do the 30ml in 30 seconds or 25ml in 25 seconds for a single basket. 60ml in 30 seconds or 50 ml in 25 seconds for a double basket.
    That is for the traditional 7gm single and 14 gm double baskets.

    Easier and better results if youre using larger baskets like 8-9 singles and 18gm+ doubles and triples.

    If no joy, then theres other variables to consider, like grinder issues, brew head temperature stability, coffee bean quality just to name a few.

    Do one thing at a time, so that you can trace the problem.

    Gary at G

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    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Re: A Picture tells a thousand words, so what do these pictures tell me?

    Quote Originally Posted by 7E61607D606C313939394961667D64686065090 link=1318850575/0#0 date=1318850575
    The first picture, I believe is blonding. Is the only reason for this because its being pulled too long? Although it was pulled to 28-30ml. Dosing 16g, and the tamping technique seems fine. Tell me more....

    The second picture, why the dark spots?
    Hi Whitey
    Cant comment on the coffee used, but from my experience, the darker stains can come from either coffee getting stale (which you also taste as a bitter flavour - but you said yours was pretty fresh) or coffee too fine or tamped too hard. When I see that in my pours, I tend to coarsen up the grind a fraction, or tamp slightly lighter.
    With the blonding - doesnt seem excessive from the pic - more important to get enough coffee into the cup to taste!
    Of course - if your pour refracts light Pink Floyd style, youve gone too far :)
    Matt

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    Re: A Picture tells a thousand words, so what do these pictures tell me?

    Hey Friends,

    Thanks for the input so far. With all the Expobars Ive used (Commercial), they all come with the bigger baskets. So the single filter basket holds around 14-16g, and the double 20-22g. Ive been on few different machines, and I dont believe Ive ever come across the traditional 7gram basket.
    Quote Originally Posted by 6F7578796B7D656F6F1C0 link=1318850575/6#6 date=1318909036
    Im not keen on merlo either.

    I prefer a more full bodied cabernet or a shiraz, also preferably Australian due to their more up frontal and mid fruity palate.
    I enjoy a glass of Merlot and a Glass of Merlo. (You wouldent be the first to use this one liner, try doing coffee at a Winery that specializes in Merlot, and your using Merlo Coffee, the amount of times you hear it I couldent count on my fingers and toes...


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    Re: A Picture tells a thousand words, so what do these pictures tell me?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5A4A46465D48764E4845290 link=1318850575/4#4 date=1318888503
    Though, my guess at your second picture is probably a bit of under extraction and the darker spots are the oils staining your crema.
    Please explain more!

    I have tried 5 of Merlos coffee blends,were using their Espresso Blend. I find it alright for milk based coffees, its keeps the majority of people happy. As a short black, I find its quite alive, quite full on. Once you get passed the initial crema the rest is quite fruity and zingy I guess. I have quite a few regulars who come in just for their Doppios. Currently though I reckon my temperature on the Ole Ruggero is running a bit hot, contacted Merlo and they recommend brewing temperature at 85-88, so I need to search for a temperature gauge thingie. For the customers who like to taste their coffee a little more, I recommend 45ml shot or a double, which they have been happy with.

    Might look into getting some of this Espresso WOW, have been reading quite a few good comments on it.


  11. #11
    Senior Member sidewayss's Avatar
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    Re: A Picture tells a thousand words, so what do these pictures tell me?

    Quote Originally Posted by 233C3D203D316C646464143C3B2039353D38540 link=1318850575/8#8 date=1318922841
    I enjoy a glass of Merlot and a Glass of Merlo. (You wouldent be the first to use this one liner, try doing coffee at a Winery that specializes in Merlot, and your using Merlo Coffee, the amount of times you hear it I couldent count on my fingers and toes...
    Shouldnt give anybody a headache ;D
    In fact, its a catchy way of engaging customers and having a laugh with them and making them comfortable with the barista/customer relationship.

    If technique and machine is not the issue here, perhaps you could quietly sneak in perhaps 250 gms of a different coffee into the grinder from another reputable roaster and give it a whirl.
    Just for curiosity sake. What u think?

    Gary at G

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    Re: A Picture tells a thousand words, so what do these pictures tell me?

    This has also got me curious, as Ive never had it happen before today.

    Im a bit puzzled as to why the staining has occurred actually. The shot was a clear under extraction (7 seconds to start, 22 seconds to finish). Roast date was 4 days ago. Tamp was standard. 18g basket, dosed to ridge.

    It was mentioned that it can occur due to grinding too fine or tamping too hard, but the under extraction would suggest its too coarse. Obviously this would then imply Im tamping too hard. Does anyone have a definite explanation?

    Taste was pretty indicative of what youd expect too. :(


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    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Re: A Picture tells a thousand words, so what do these pictures tell me?

    Maybe a backflush & dose of machine clean?
    I start to get a bit more staining as the week goes on, and thats in a home setup with only a couple of hits a day. I also backflush at the end of every session, as the taste of any old grinds is much more noticeable in the short bevvie I have at breakfast. But I still notice the taste/look of old rancid oils building up towards the weekend, so cleaning once a week with cleaner is on the cards & seems to fix that.
    Another thing to try?
    Matt

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    Re: A Picture tells a thousand words, so what do these pictures tell me?

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    I might try playing around with the grind some more, Im using a Mazzer Super Jolly, the burrs were only replaced 1-2months ago, but I still believe the ground coffee is rather warm once grounded*, this could possibily be the issue or apart of the issue.

    I keep my Group Heads as clean as possible, constanly doing a blind flush, and the portafilters are always washed out and cleaned of oils.

    Question: What are people dosing their standard Expobar (Commercial Machines) baskets with; single and double? Ive found with a single its 14-16g, with a double its 20-22g.

    Also with the Grinder (Mazzer Super Jolly) the dial sits around 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, What are others dialled in at?




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