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Thread: where can I buy copper washers??

  1. #1
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    where can I buy copper washers??

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Taken the copper pipes of my boiler machine and now it is leaking after reassembly at the connections. Anyone know where I can buy replacement copper washers locally without ordering them online from coffee suppliers or that large online auction site? Really want to get the machine running and not have to wait for postage delay.

    Cant seem to find them at Bunnings. Not sure where to try next. Plumbing store Reece maybe?? Thinking of using the old washers + teflon tape if I cant track down the right sizes. Has anyone tried that before with machine repairs

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    Re: where can I buy copper washers??

    Dont use teflon tape. What you want is Loxeal Thread Sealant. We use it regularly to reseal pipes and fittings in machines whee the mating surfaces are damaged or pitted enough not to seal by themselves. You just need to take a look at each joint to see where the seal occurs and make sure you smear the sealant there without getting any inside the pipe or fitting. You should be able to get it at Reece or any plumbing supplier.

  3. #3
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    Re: where can I buy copper washers??

    You can usually get copper washers from car parts shops eg Coventrys etc.

    Cheers

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    Re: where can I buy copper washers??

    Also look at bearing supply and hydraulic shops.
    Some stock them

  5. #5
    KJM
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    Re: where can I buy copper washers??

    If you cant get hold of Loxeal conveniently - you can get Loctite 561 (in a stick) or 565 in a squeezy thing[TM].

    Both work well. You can then just smear a little on the copper washer and re-use. Loctite stuff is widely available.

    I know the 561 is food grade, but I dont have a data sheet for the 565 stuff. The 565 is (if I recall correctly) somewhat harder to remove.

    Dont (whatever you do) use permanent sealers!

    /Kevin

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    Re: where can I buy copper washers??

    Just wondering why shouldnt I use teflon tape? I would of thought it should handle the temperatures.

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    Re: where can I buy copper washers??

    Quote Originally Posted by 373C2E3B303C34363A3A38590 link=1323876721/5#5 date=1323939506
    Just wondering why shouldnt I use teflon tape? I would of thought it should handle the temperatures.
    I believe it has something to do with how the stuff degrades, it tends to form strands and peel off, Imagine that stuff ending up in your boiler, or worse.

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    Re: where can I buy copper washers??

    Quote Originally Posted by 715C485A5554535A7C497B5C49583D0 link=1323876721/6#6 date=1323941557
    I believe it has something to do with how the stuff degrades, it tends to form strands and peel off, Imagine that stuff ending up in your boiler, or worse.
    Vibiemme for one uses teflon tape in some areas where one would normally think to use a copper sealing washer. The teflon tape is sort of twisted as it is applied and wrapped around so many times that unless you carefully inspect it, the tape appears to be a white, teflon washer seal. It is an effective method for areas that have a small contact area. I used it to seal a leak of a threaded part that was originally sealed with a liquid sealer.

    Teflon tape, properly applied, cannot get into the machines water path.

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    Re: where can I buy copper washers??

    It all has to do with proper application.

    I use high density Teflon tape quite a bit in rebuilds and it works just fine. If applied properly there is not risk of it entering the system. The same is true with any other sealant.


  10. #10
    KJM
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    Re: where can I buy copper washers??

    Quote Originally Posted by 795440525D5C5B52744173544150350 link=1323876721/6#6 date=1323941557
    I believe it has something to do with how the stuff degrades, it tends to form strands and peel off, Imagine that stuff ending up in your boiler, or worse.
    I suspect the issue is small bits breaking off. And then settling in the various fine restrictions - like the valves! Having a tiny bit in the steam valve (in all the 3 machines I have owned this is a needle and seat type valve) will cause it to leak.

    I find the liquid/solid stuff much easier to apply in a controlled way than the usual PTFE tapes. The Loctite 561 works just fine for me. The 565 does also (I have both in the shed). So does the pink PTFE tape - because Ive used that too on the machine at work to fix a leak after the technician fixed the machine ::) The hottest thing Ive actually measured was the boiler in the Silvia - which peaked at 154C. So any product with a temp of 180C or so will do (probably).

    /Kevin

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    Re: where can I buy copper washers??

    I find this a strange thread, Teflon tape is a simple easy, safe and cheap method of sealing threaded connections.
    Temperature wont affect it (stable to + 500F) and if applied correctly there is no way it can find its way into the plumbing.

    Follow these simple instructions.

    Wrap in Direction of Tightening

    * * Wrap the tape in the same direction--usually clockwise--that you will tighten the pipe or fitting, such as a shower head. Stretch the tape slightly as you wrap so that it embeds into the threads.

    Start on Right Thread

    * * Place the tape1/8 inch from the top of the first thread, then wrap the tape around the threads of the pipe. Stop wrapping 1/8 inch before the threads end.

    Cover All Threads

    * * Use your thumb to hold down the tape as you start to wrap it around the threads. Pull hard on the tape to tear off your end point when the wrapping is complete or cut with a pair of scissors.

    Overlap the Tape

    * * Overlap the tape around the joint three times to make a tight fitting. Make sure the overlap stays inside the threads.

    Needs No Other Adhesives

    * * Resist the temptation to add other adhesives or compounds. Teflon tape provides enough lubrication for attaching pipes and fixtures. In addition, it does not harden or dry out, so you dont have to worry about joints freezing up.

    Versatile

    * * Rely on Teflon tape to use on all kinds of piping materials, including plastic, brass, copper, aluminum, galvanized steel and black iron.

    Withstands Heat and Cold

    Teflon tape is made to withstand conditions from 500 degrees Fahrenheit to minus 450 degrees Fahrenheit.

    I would suggest that if you have any concerns re doing the job yourself then get it done by someone who knows what they are on about, i.e. plumber, gas fitter or espresso machine repairer. ;)

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    Re: where can I buy copper washers??

    Quote Originally Posted by 507D697B7475727B5D685A7D68791C0 link=1323876721/6#6 date=1323941557
    Quote Originally Posted by 373C2E3B303C34363A3A38590 link=1323876721/5#5 date=1323939506
    Just wondering why shouldnt I use teflon tape? I would of thought it should handle the temperatures.
    I believe it has something to do with how the stuff degrades, it tends to form strands and peel off, Imagine that stuff ending up in your boiler, or worse.
    Does not degrade at the temperatures we are talking about and will only finish up in the boiler or plumbing if applied incorrectly. ;)

  13. #13
    KJM
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    Re: where can I buy copper washers??

    Quote Originally Posted by 497B746E7B766F771A0 link=1323876721/10#10 date=1323990521
    sealing threaded connections
    Unfortunately - the discussion was about copper washer sealing ::) Thread sealing is a real doddle.. The connections Ive been dealing with have compressible copper washers that do the sealing and the threads just enable you to put load on them. Tees, nipples and sockets are different bunch-o-stuff, but I tend to use the same sealers there too - just because I have them to hand.

    The technique that Randy G. described involves making a replacement washer out of either PTFE tape alone or wrapped cunningly around the now flattened and work-hardened copper washer I think.

    /Kevin

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    Re: where can I buy copper washers??

    Quote Originally Posted by 5051561B0 link=1323876721/12#12 date=1324006009
    Quote Originally Posted by 497B746E7B766F771A0 link=1323876721/10#10 date=1323990521
    sealing threaded connections
    Unfortunately - the discussion was about copper washer sealing* ::)* Thread sealing is a real doddle..* The connections Ive been dealing with have compressible copper washers that do the sealing and the threads just enable you to put load on them.* Tees, nipples and sockets are different bunch-o-stuff, but I tend to use the same sealers there too - just because I have them to hand.

    The technique that Randy G. described involves making a replacement washer out of either PTFE tape alone or wrapped cunningly around the now flattened and work-hardened copper washer I think.

    /Kevin
    Having reread the original post I agree with you, copper washers it is, old ones can be annealed if in reasonable condition, although why you would bother if a new one is available for 25 cents escapes me, perhaps in a remote situation to get you out of a jam. Noticed you took time to explain the ins and outs of thread seal in post#9 in this thread ::) BTW, nothing being discussed here is exactly difficult. Thanks for the welcome. ;)

  15. #15
    KJM
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    Re: where can I buy copper washers??

    Quote Originally Posted by 093B342E3B362F375A0 link=1323876721/13#13 date=1324015922
    BTW, nothing being discussed here is exactly difficult. Thanks for the welcome.
    Nothing inside an espresso machine is particularly complicated full stop. Coming from a Software/Electrical background - those are the things I find the simplest though! The only thing with many espresso machines is that it is a bit tight inside, so you tend to need exactly the right tools...

    BTW: most of the copper washers Ive needed to replace have been a major pain. Inevitably it is a size I dont have in my copper washer jar (I think there is an actual theorem about that situation!) and theyve been crushed by a 400lb Gorilla, so theyve spread. So annealing wont help, sadly...

    Anyway - welcome! ;D

    Cheers
    /Kevin

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    Re: where can I buy copper washers??

    Quote Originally Posted by 7574733E0 link=1323876721/14#14 date=1324018475
    Quote Originally Posted by 093B342E3B362F375A0 link=1323876721/13#13 date=1324015922
    BTW, nothing being discussed here is exactly difficult. Thanks for the welcome.
    Nothing inside an espresso machine is particularly complicated full stop.* Coming from a Software/Electrical background - those are the things I find the simplest though!* The only thing with many espresso machines is that it is a bit tight inside, so you tend to need exactly the right tools...

    BTW: most of the copper washers Ive needed to replace have been a major pain.* Inevitably it is a size I dont have in my copper washer jar (I think there is an actual theorem about that situation!) and theyve been crushed by a 400lb Gorilla, so theyve spread.* So annealing wont help, sadly...

    Anyway - welcome!* ;D

    Cheers
    /Kevin
    In the old days they were seldom replaced, simply used over again until they were paper thin, even then they were reused, still happens in the bush.
    Know what you mean about trying to get the right size. :)

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    Re: where can I buy copper washers??

    Im a DIY nut and trying to restore a project machine without want forking out heaps of money for someone to repair to do it for me. They arent complicated machines. Its frustrating having a leaking machine after reconnecting all the pipes. Been an uncommon machines parts cannot simply be ordered easily online. To give you a guide as to the lengths I went to. The following places dont sell them: bunnings, reece, plumbtec, automative stores (only one size for sump plug too large), gavins plumbing and fasteners division, conventrys, even my local coffee shop who does repairs couldnt find the right size ones to fit.

    Enzed was the place I eventually found some but I still had to modify the washers with the dremel as the internal diameter was too small. There was still a leak with replacement washers be it less so I ended up using some carefully placed teflon tap and all is watertight now. I think I might buy a set of 150 online from that large auction site next time.

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    Re: where can I buy copper washers??

    My suggestion is to try an automotive parts distributer rather than a dealer or 3rd party parts place. Maybe one that imports and distributes and not one connected to an OZ/local manufacturer. Dont know about now but these types of place used to stock spare parts for generations of models spanning decades not just the common/popular/recent ones. They are also used to finding the unusual.

    I worked at just such a place (for FIAT agricultural gear) 30 yrs ago and in those days they stocked or could source a humongous range of different sized nuts, bolts, screws, washers, bearings, seals, o-rings etc and in different materials too. We were asked for and found all types of things not related to farm machinery. Importantly we knew who did stock things we didnt carry.

    Most same sized washers for diesel pumps/injectors and hydraulics were often available in copper/aluminium/fibre as maufactuers changed specs for one reason or another, and all previous incarnations had to be supported. This was mainly because it was considered important to keep a forty year old tractor running and as a distributer they didnt expect a dealer to stock these sometimes rarer tems but needed have one on hand if asked. As much as I love em, Im not sure if Bunnings think this way.

    Anyway, if youve exhausted other options, phone calls or emails to such a place cant hurt. Hopefully times havent totally changed and Im not as old as this story sounds.

  19. #19
    KJM
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    Re: where can I buy copper washers??

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    newbiemocca - thats always my problem.. There is never the right size I want in the shed... Despite having already purchased a "kit" of about 100 :o

    Just saying!

    /Kevin

    Glad it worked out. I know what it is like to be so close to finishing the project and not having the last little bit to finish it...



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