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Thread: Stones in commercial roasts?

  1. #1
    Roz
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    Stones in commercial roasts?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    So whilst I was in Melbourne last weekend I picked up a bag of beans roasted from SS at BBB, they are one of my favorite roasters who come up with some seriously funky roasts.

    So Luckily tonight I spotted a small asteroid size stone in the shot of beans I was about to dump into my grinder, the size of this one would of done some damage that is for sure.

    Im just wondering if I should let them know about it? Im not sure of their sorting process whether they have a de-stoner or not but a $12 bag of beans would of cost me at least a new set of burrs not to mention it would take me ages to run the burrs in as I only go through 1kg a month.

    Ive only encountered one stone in my home roasts in a bag of mexican and the size of that was a 10th of that stone.


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    Senior Member topshot's Avatar
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    Re: Stones in commercial roasts?

    Ouch!
    It wouldnt do any harm to let them know in a nice (calm) way!
    If I was them, I would like to know if that happened :)

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    Re: Stones in commercial roasts?

    Looks like someone isnt using a destoner or something is wrong with their destoner.

    That is typical of rubbish found in the coffee, that should be removed by the destoner in a professional roasterie, and by the way it isnt actually a "stone", it is a* piece of compressed mud from the green coffee processing. Hit it lightly with a hammer and it will pulverise back to dirt.....that one would probably go through your grinder without a hitch, but the thing is what if it had been a real stone or other material we get coming out at the destoner.

    A small sample below


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    Re: Stones in commercial roasts?

    Its always a good idea to let your roaster know what you have experienced. There may be an issue with their destoner that they may not know about. If they dont have a destoner, it may inspire them to think about getting one.

    Good roasters always appreciate feedback.

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    Coffee+carbon=heaven Mono's Avatar
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    Re: Stones in commercial roasts?

    Quote Originally Posted by 102433253E09153930303333560 link=1331109700/2#2 date=1331160462
    A small sample below
    :o :o :o OMG

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    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
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    Re: Stones in commercial roasts?

    Quote Originally Posted by 526671677C4B577B72727171140 link=1331109700/2#2 date=1331160462
    A small sample below
    Dont you hate it when the coffee-cherry pickers forget to separate the screws from the cherries! ::)

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    Roz
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    Re: Stones in commercial roasts?

    you were correct about it being compressed mud, hard to tell because it feels like a solid piece of stone in the fingers, smacked it with my pestle and it crumbled, would of been fine in the grinder but I wouldnt want to taste the mud with a good shot of espresso.

    Im amazed by the things in that bowl :o

    I havent had a reply from the roasted whether they use a destoner or not.


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    Re: Stones in commercial roasts?

    thats very much par for the course from the quality high grown coffees we roast. Imagine what comes out of low quality stuff where the processing doesnt need to be so good.

    Better than it used to be, in the old days we used to get a lot of cigarette butts from cigies sold in the third world, but we dont get them anymore, also dont get coins or money any more......

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    Re: Stones in commercial roasts?

    I havent purchased roasted coffee for some years now but always make it part of my routine to check the beans after roasting (actually its my wifes job to check them ;D )

    Some are a lot worse than others. I have found that the Yemen tends to have a fair bit of inclusions.

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    Re: Stones in commercial roasts?

    Ive yet to see any stones in the beans that come from beanbay, but I am slightly worried that I might get an inclusion thatd destroy the burrs on my grinder...

    I figured that most inclusions will be sandy/light coloured post-roast, but that batch of things from the destoner worry me.

    Is there anything to look out for to visually check to make sure that the roast is free of detritus?

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    Senior Member fatboy_1999's Avatar
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    Re: Stones in commercial roasts?

    Ive caught the odd piece here and there. The Yemen a couple of years ago came with a more vocal than usual warning as it did tend to have a bit more non-coffee in it than your other beans.

    I usually cast my over over the greens when weighing and the dumped roast when cooling and stirring. Found a few small stones or compressed mud, corn kernels, string etc. Only ever seen one stone that would have potentially hurt the grinder. It was a blueish piece of stone about the size of a bean and very solid.

    Its just a good habit to get into to check your greens and beans that you roast.

    Purchased roasted beans would hopefully have all gone via a de-stoner, but I have not bought any for a long time myself.

    Brett.

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    Re: Stones in commercial roasts?

    Ive only ever had one stone (that ive spotted anyway) which was in a bag of CS greens. Andy does give fair warning being a raw product so im always on the lookout

    The odd bit of string in the beans from the cotton bags but otherwise stone free for me

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    Re: Stones in commercial roasts?

    With the small batch sizes I assume you are all roasting at home, it shouldnt be a problem to spread each batch out on a flat surface and cast a very careful eye.

    I roasted a couple of 70 gram samples this morning, no problem & very easy to handle with regard to checking for "stones".

    The sample in the photograph has to be taken in context. It has been collected over a large quantity of beans, and these days I only pick out and throw in the most interesting finds! You could probably roast 2 or 3 tons of high grade coffee and only get that much rubbish.....

    That said, you only need one genuine stone or nail to muck things up pretty badly for you.....

    Also consider this. The start up cost on a small low end roasting machine is somewhere under 20 thou. The cost of an add on stand alone destoner at somewhere around say 5 thou can then seem to be very expensive in the scheme of things to newcomers trying to break into the industry.

    But without a destoner, theyre in big trouble.

    So in terms of newcomers wanting to break into the industry in a metro area, I would say the real cost of their start up equipment needs to include a destoner as well as a suitable afterburner. It then starts to look (rightly) a little more daunting.

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    Re: Stones in commercial roasts?

    Wow, now im super paranoid about the beans that im pouring into my grinder. Pouring veery slowly and checking any suspicious looking ones...Thanks guys!

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    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    Re: Stones in commercial roasts?

    I always check my eans before I roast but Ive seen stones that look exactly like beans so Im sure ill miss one one day.

    DiBella in Melbourne have a big glass jar on display full of stones they have rescued from their coffee roaster

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    Re: Stones in commercial roasts?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4741565D4740585A330 link=1331109700/14#14 date=1331291066
    I always check my eans before I roast
    I check post roast using the theory that those rocks/mud lumps are going to be a similar size (are they screened?) and (usually) colour to the greens whereas the browns will be somewhat larger and significantly different colour - so easier to spot.

    It only takes a minute or two for some peace of mind.* I got a large flat tupperware from a $2 shop - tip in a handful of beans from the cooling sieve, quick eyeball, tip into container on scales, repeat until finished. Easy.

    I think however that Im seeing less stones now than a few years ago, particularly in the Eth. & Yemen.* Maybe they are being more careful with the premium beans, or maybe thats where all my luck has gone.

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    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
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    Re: Stones in commercial roasts?

    Do u think any of it was to increase the weight per bag or nothing so insidious?

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    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    Re: Stones in commercial roasts?

    I dont think a couple of screws, a cigarette butt or small stone will affect the weight of a bag of coffee. [smiley=cheesy.gif]

    Must say I have not found anything in all the kilos I have roasted, but having said that I dont look for them that carefully (I guess I should), and if there was anything foreign, it ground up ok!

    Might look into a DIY destoner.

    Cheers

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Re: Stones in commercial roasts?

    Ive found half a dozen or so small stones in about 3 years of weekly roasting, all bean size or smaller and mostly soft crumbly stuff that would do no harm to the burrs, a couple looked like granite or similar and may well have been a problem had they found their way into the grinder.
    As far as Im concerned stones are not really a problem, I roast a little over 700 grams of beans at a time and the stones are easy to spot in my gem sieve cooler. :)

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    Re: Stones in commercial roasts?

    Quote Originally Posted by 7C6E60766A0F0 link=1331109700/16#16 date=1331336284
    Do u think any of it was to increase the weight per bag or nothing so insidious?
    Bags are often under weight from what I have heard.
    There are various reasons, some innocent, some not. Once you have the 60kg bag and it actually has 59.5 or less, what are your options? Its been through several hands by now and most end customers just make a note for their own reference and push on.

    I doubt the foreign stuff that makes it in there is put there on purpose.

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    Re: Stones in commercial roasts?

    There is nothing sinister about the foreign material being in there.

    Some origins can come in under, and others will come in over.

    You use a weigh bridge or scales of some kind, and advise your broker what you found so he can adjust the invoice (if you have a good relationship and he trusts what you tell him). That means you have to be honest and let him know when the weight is over, just as when it is under.

    This is what you can do when you buy inside Australia from a green bean broker in Australia ie you bought so many kilos and were invoiced in Australia. Then you have a case to make a claim on short delivery.

    If you buy from O/S, forget it.

    You have to consider the weight of the pallets, therefore you either work on an average weight taken over many pallets....

    Or you unpack each and every pallet of coffee and weigh each bag individually, then put the bags back on the pallets. You have to consider the weight of the hessian bags if you want any of this to be accurate.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Stan's Avatar
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    Re: Stones in commercial roasts?

    I have been home roasting for just over three years and have found small stones in several batches.* It is not uncommon but some have had quite a few.* Once I went through a bag of Yemen Bani Ismail and found a handful of small stone but they all fell apart with a little pressure so I doubt they would have hurt the grinder.

    I have found a stone or two in other coffees but nothing that I feel would hurt the grinder.* I do however have a good look at the beans before I roast and am thinking of building a destoner for home.* There is the plans for one somewhere* on this forum.* :)

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    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Stones in commercial roasts?

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    One of the advantages of a hand grinder: I doubt if I would be turning the Pharos hard enough to hurt a burr. I think it would just stop.

    Greg



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