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Thread: Barista wage 2012

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    Barista wage 2012

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    I have seen a few posts on this topic, but theyre quite out dated now.* I wonder what would be the going rate for hiring a top class Barista in 2012?* Not talking about minimum wage workers, but for someone that has the looks, the experience for making consistent shots after shots in a busy environment and of course be able to put latte art on the cup.

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    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Re: Barista wage 2012

    I really dont know the answer but have heard figures from $16-$40/hr
    ...not many get the pointy end and typically they have to create a lot of business to get the big bucks.

    Are you asking the question to know what to ask for in a new job?

    Full time, part time, casual will also make a big difference to the cafe owner. Paying you top dollar in the quiter parts of the day can be hard to justify.

    If you are "that good" then why not see if you can work on a unit price. I dont know if its legal but a set figure of say 70c a cup might be a win-win for both the owner and the barista in a busy cafe as long as you were happy to work for $60hr when you were getting pumped and then work a few hours at $7hr when it was quiet.

    Of course this is the math that the owner is doing to justify a full time wage anyway.

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    Re: Barista wage 2012

    I saw Campos advertised for a barista in a new company owned shop and they were offering $60-$65,000

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Barista wage 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by 3A313D352320323531233C3529500 link=1337605623/2#2 date=1337655270
    I saw Campos advertised for a barista in a new company owned shop and they were offering $60-$65,000
    Yep, Campos will even pay more than that for a full-time, gun barista. However most places in Sydney typically offer between $20-$25 per hour.

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    Re: Barista wage 2012

    Thanks Dennis for bringing some realism to this. ("...typically offer between $20-$25 per hour....")

    I have seen enough scenarios of espresso machine operators wanting big bucks, but their performance fell short of the expectation and they didnt last long.....

    This really is an individual thing negotiated between individuals (proprietors and "baristas"), and from the experienced proprietor point of view it goes something like ".....prove it..." (that you are worth the money). A quick trial will sort it out.

    The problem is, that there are enough "newcomer cafe proprietors" with no experience, that rely on employing someone that presents as being a "gun", and they are more likely to deliver a demanded pay rate which in turn delivers a false impression on rates to the market.

    You also have the age old psychological effect of employees inflating in conversation with others, what they are really being paid and their nett worth as a barista, by a considerable margin. In short....who do you believe?

    I dont know how you get a genuine answer (in terms of $) to this topic. And of course, a "gun" barista is not just an espresso machine operator. He/she is an ambassador to the business, keeps the established clients, brings new business, and increases the dollar spend from the captive clients. Its an attitude / ethic that you either have or you dont have, and that has nothing at all to do with snobbish bad attitude as in...."attitude".....

    There arent many of those around.


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    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Re: Barista wage 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by 0629233E470 link=1337605623/1#1 date=1337654095
    f you are "that good" then why not see if you can work on a unit price. I dont know if its legal but a set figure of say 70c a cup might be a win-win for both the owner and the barista in a busy cafe as long as you were happy to work for $60hr when you were getting pumped and then work a few hours at $7hr when it was quiet.

    Probably not 100% kosher on a normal employer-employee barista deal, but would certainly be ok if the employer paid whatever the obligatory bare minimum hourly wage is + a smaller per unit bonus.

    I suspect a number of the baristas who do singificantly better than average are probably doing a fair bit of managerial work too (certainly the 3 or 4 I know are in that category...not a big sample though).


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    Re: Barista wage 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by 282E322C29362A2B450 link=1337605623/5#5 date=1337668202
    + a smaller per unit bonus.
    How* do you give a bonus for quality?

    Barryd.

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    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Re: Barista wage 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by 7A594A4A41677C4D565B5956380 link=1337605623/6#6 date=1337668679
    Quote Originally Posted by 282E322C29362A2B450 link=1337605623/5#5 date=1337668202
    + a smaller per unit bonus.
    How* do you give a bonus for quality?

    Barryd.
    Very informally (and may take a number of forms)......and obviously the person deciding it has to know their stuff. I was just commenting on the legality of potentially paying an employee less than the hourly minimum.

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    Re: Barista wage 2012

    Thanks for the answers so far guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by 426D677A030 link=1337605623/1#1 date=1337654095
    Are you asking the question to know what to ask for in a new job?
    Nope, Im planning to open a new cafe soon so Im researching for the figure now.* Preferably to get a full time barista.* Right now we have a cafe but not really concentrating on coffee, so the staffs are more of an allrounder rather than dedicated barista, so I thought to ask and get some ideas :)

    $20-25 is a reasonable.* Hopefully inclusive of sick leaves / super etc.

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    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Re: Barista wage 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by 77716D73766975741A0 link=1337605623/5#5 date=1337668202
    Probably not 100% kosher
    I agree but I like the concept.

    I think as long as you were over the minimum wage for the week then it would be fine.

    eg:
    If $16/hr is the minimum hourly rate then as long as an 8 hour shift is more than $130 then it would be legal.

    So:
    7am-10am - 200 coffees @ 0.70 = $140
    10am-3pm - 50 coffees @ 0.70 = $35

    $175 for the 8 hours = $22/hr

    If the gun barista could attract another 100 coffees in the 10am-3pm slot (20 more an hour) then it becomes

    7am-10am - 200 coffees @ 0.70 = $140
    10am-3pm - 150 coffees @ 0.70 = $105

    $245 for the 8 hours = $30.60/hr

    Pay for performance instead of paying so the barista can spend half the day facebooking friends.

    Quote Originally Posted by 706462627874736476767070110 link=1337605623/8#8 date=1337679934
    Im planning to open a new cafe soon so Im researching for the figure now. Preferably to get a full time barista.
    How many coffees a day do you think he/she will make?


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    Re: Barista wage 2012

    That is quite a good idea paying per cup made.

    Quote Originally Posted by 0D2228354C0 link=1337605623/9#9 date=1337681855
    How many coffees a day do you think he/she will make?
    As many as possible of course :)* but Im aiming for 45kg / week as a minimum on weekdays, so that is about 450 cups / day.* At $0.7 a cup, that might be a bit rich.. considering at peak hour, 2 baristas might be required.* - One to pull shots and another for milk.

    Actually which is more important? Shots / Milk barista?* At least from customers perspective anyway.

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    Re: Barista wage 2012

    It depends on the size of your new business,If it was a small specialty cafe doing 200-300 coffees then you probably arent going to be turning over enough to warrant paying someone big dollars.

    If it is a large operation with 2 or more coffee machines doing high volume+ plenty of food etc you might be able to pay your standout top class barista more money but I would be expecting them to manage the whole coffee operation and train staff too.

    I think you will have your work cut out for you, there arent that many top class/competition level ones around and they mainly work for specialty cafes or are the face of certain coffee company signature stores or chains.

    good luck.

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    Re: Barista wage 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by 726660607A76716674747272130 link=1337605623/10#10 date=1337684959
    As many as possible of course but Im aiming for 45kg / week as a minimum on weekdays, so that is about 450 cups / day. At $0.7 a cup, that might be a bit rich.. considering at peak hour, 2 baristas might be required. - One to pull shots and another for milk.
    Wow I had a laugh if I were working by myself doing 45 kg mon-fri I would be flat out exhausted :o I would want a good hourly rate at least $25hr full time. You would most definately need 2+ baristas if you wanted your customers to be served with a good product and not have to wait too long for it either.

    Probably add another minimum $3-$5hr for managing other staff/the coffee operations in general

    Most top baristas who have worked in cafes for a long time can also allround.....cash register etc.

    This my opinion anyways.


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    Re: Barista wage 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by 243036362C20273022222424450 link=1337605623/10#10 date=1337684959
    450 cups / day
    At that work rate... pay em heaps.* They will be getting smashed all day and if you are paying "average" they will nick-off to a softer job pretty quickly.

    Quote Originally Posted by 243036362C20273022222424450 link=1337605623/10#10 date=1337684959
    Shots / Milk barista?
    Of course "both" is the answer but good milk is noticed by more (Australian) customers.

    Quote Originally Posted by 243036362C20273022222424450 link=1337605623/10#10 date=1337684959
    At $0.7 a cup, that might be a bit rich
    It was just a random figure, the concept is the same though and might be a balance of minimum wage and a per cup bonus to encourage them to:

    a: care about quality (to keep customers)
    b: generate new business (which will improve their bottom line)
    c: generate more business (eg: sell the second cup)
    d: lessen the freebies ;-)

    The problem I have with minimum wage (or any fixed wage for that matter) is that it encourages minimum performance.

    I heard once that the scottish hamburger place worked on the rule of 3s when pricing items.
    1/3rd costs
    1/3rd wages
    1/3rd profit
    ...of course the "want fries with that?" or "upsize?" adds a higher % in the profit line but you get the idea.

    Seems that not too many business owners want to share that much wage but if more did then they might find a more loyal work force that help build a business not just sponge from it.

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    Re: Barista wage 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by 213533332925223527272121400 link=1337605623/10#10 date=1337684959
    That is quite a good idea paying per cup made.

    Quote Originally Posted by 0D2228354C0 link=1337605623/9#9 date=1337681855
    How many coffees a day do you think he/she will make?
    As many as possible of course :)* but Im aiming for 45kg / week as a minimum on weekdays, so that is about 450 cups / day.* At $0.7 a cup, that might be a bit rich.. considering at peak hour, 2 baristas might be required.* - One to pull shots and another for milk.

    Actually which is more important? Shots / Milk barista?* At least from customers perspective anyway.
    It depends on the equipment you are using, ie a Robur E with a temperature stable machine like a Linea, will not take much training so long as the person pulling shots is being supervised and has a consistent tamp. Milk on the other hand is harder to do consistently. There is lots more to account for when texturing milk and managing your flow, it definitely takes more mental organisation.

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    Re: Barista wage 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by 08272D30490 link=1337605623/13#13 date=1337688746
    Of course "both" is the answer but good milk is noticed by more (Australian) customers.
    Quote Originally Posted by 243C39392C3D162428277F7E490 link=1337605623/14#14 date=1337689109
    It depends on the equipment you are using, ie a Robur E with a temperature stable machine like a Linea, will not take much training so long as the person pulling shots is being supervised and has a consistent tamp. Milk on the other hand is harder to do consistently. There is lots more to account for when texturing milk and managing your flow, it definitely takes more mental organisation.*
    Cool. Milk it is then.* Thats what I saw in most cafes.* The one with the "looks" does the milk.* ie. The face of the business just before the product gets to the customers.

    Yes, most likely the Linea or the FB 80 + Robur (non-E)

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    Re: Barista wage 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by 6870757560715A68646B3332050 link=1337605623/14#14 date=1337689109
    It depends on the equipment you are using, ie a Robur E with a temperature stable machine like a Linea, will not take much training so long as the person pulling shots is being supervised and has a consistent tamp.
    Hmm... Sorry, but I disagree.

    I have been pulling shots since I was a kid and there is still rarely a week where I dont learn something about espresso and revisit what I do in some way or another. To assume that a newb will have shots mastered if they have the "right equipment" and tamp. Sorry, but nope.

    The milk learning curve may be steeper but its also shorter. Microfoam is achievable pretty quickly. Its refinement and pour skills from there.

    Espresso is the foundation of all milky coffees and if the person doesnt have the skills to diagnose and adjust on the fly, the foundation is sure to crumble and its game over and youre losing money...Espresso is not to be trivialised.


    Quote Originally Posted by 647076766C60677062626464050 link=1337605623/15#15 date=1337693468
    Yes, most likely the Linea or the FB 80 + Robur (non-E)
    This introduces another level of difficulty as you then need to assume consistent dosing and the skills to manage distribution etc. Its also likely to lead to much more waste.


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    Re: Barista wage 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by 2C34313124351E2C202F7776410 link=1337605623/14#14 date=1337689109[/QUOTE
    It depends on the equipment you are using, ie a Robur E with a temperature stable machine like a Linea, will not take much training......
    Rubbish. It will take as much training and supervision and hard work and time as with any equipment.......


    ....and, what Chris (cjn) wrote...."...Hmm... Sorry, but I disagree......To assume that a newb will have shots mastered if they have the "right equipment" and tamp. Sorry, but nope...."

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    Re: Barista wage 2012


    My response was specifically about where you put the more skilled barista when two up on a machine. I stand by my comment that some equipment that helps enable consistency can help swing that balance. I use both a Linea a Robur E and a Robur doser at work.

    To be honest I found your comment about "the internets favourite equipment" a little out of line.

    When under the pump with 20 people waiting for coffee the Robur E is an absolute lifesaver. It does not make life easier simply because the internet says it does. I couldnt care less what "the internet" says about it.

    It takes 5 seconds and only one hand to get the coffee dosed and distributed, I then tamp the mound. I have pulled many shots done like this with a Naked porta filter. The shots look great.

    With the doser I would say it takes closer to 20 seconds to do all this. It takes practice to prevent wastage, it take care and practice to get an even looking extraction on the naked portafilter. Imo it takes a very highly skilled barista with a refined technique to get more consistency dosing manual then from the E.

    The same goes for big dual boilers compared a spluttery HX (obviously there are some good HX machines out there too) You can get great shots from both, but it takes more skill to do it all day long on lesser equipment.


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    I do approx. 7 kilo's a day at my workplace..
    what am i worth?

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    Some interesting numbers there.

    450 coffees per day from 45 kg (I'm assuming they are all ~ 20g shots - although I prefer mine as doubles).

    At the going rate in Perth (~$4 for a small) thats $500k of coffee a year... Is that typical?

    Assuming those numbers are correct, a single barista would be pumping out a coffee every single minute, every hour, every day of every week of the year. Talk about busy!
    None of the espresso places I frequent are ever that consistently busy (and most have 2-3 baristas working together).

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motorcycles4eva View Post
    I do approx. 7 kilo's a day at my workplace..
    what am i worth?
    Depends on how good they are.



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