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Thread: Naked Extraction - Improvement tips?

  1. #1
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    Naked Extraction - Improvement tips?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Dear Coffee snobs, lovers and all,

    I have been dabbling with domestic coffee and have been trying to perfect the skills for the past 5 years. I recently got myself an Izzo Vivi, after moving from a Silvia and Brevilles Dual Boiler.

    You cannot imagine the disappointment that came crashing down on me when I learned that my espresso extraction skills were not up to par upon the purchase of a naked portafilter.

    To achieve perfection (or close to it), I now have included the weighing machine in my routine. 20-21g of freshly ground coffee is the magic number that lands into my double pf.

    DOSING: I perform a single tap at 18g, followed by 3g to overfill the basket. Then comes a little sweeping action with the flat side of a takeaway plastic knife is what I use for distribution. The karate-chop style that I see a number of people incorporating into their routine does not seem to work for me as I tend to push the grounds into the bed; thus creating an uneven and unpredictable dose.

    TAMPING: I developed a tamping technique which seems to work well for me 95% of the time. I will first let the weight of the tamp lie flat above the coffee bed. Upon my exertion of pressure, I will push the tamp leaning towards the north, and then south, followed by west and then east. And finally a flat push down the middle. Sorta like a joystick action going on there. This addresses my channeling problem on the sides of my basket during extraction. I will then sweep the side of the filters for any existing coffee grounds before gently pushing it on the grouphead. I strongly believe lightly tapping the basket during tamping is a big no. It may look cool to the onlookers, but no one is going to come back to you for coffee if the flavor is thin due to the underextraction resulted as part of the channeling issue you have made from your tap action.

    Seems like an awful strict routine, but after a week of practicing, it seems to come natural. I can now blame it on my blender settings if my coffee extracts a little too fast.

    Can you please review my extraction and let me know if there are any more "best practices" I need to include in my routine?
    [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8KPtcoKgOo[/media]

    50ml of extraction is what I like. It captures the oozing rich and creamy flavors of the first few seconds, followed my mid-range characteristics and a wee bit of the finishing, which is usually acidic. that will go well with my skim milk.

    The finish product is attached.


  2. #2
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    Re: Naked Extraction - Improvement tips?

    Its really down to personal taste with the sort of coffee you are making, when you are up-dosing to that extent you are in a different world to the espresso i drink - but if that extraction gives you the flavours you enjoy then thats really all that matters.

    To me the big advantage of using a naked PF is that its easier to judge my consistency of process, i weigh beans in and coffee out so i know roughly what my extraction ratio is, then I tweak to suit the particular bean and roast.

    As I said if your process is giving you the taste you like, consistently, then thats all that really matters!

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    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    Re: Naked Extraction - Improvement tips?

    Looks pretty good, maybe a smidge on the fast side? You could try grinding finer to slow it down a bit and compare the taste.

    Cheers

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    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Naked Extraction - Improvement tips?

    I think Ill go with artman, try a finer grind and see how you like it.
    Youre getting 50 ml in about 20 seconds.
    I generally like it a fair bit slower for my double ristretto--say 25 ml in 25 sec.

    Greg

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    Re: Naked Extraction - Improvement tips?

    Thanks, galumay, artman and Greg.

    Ive tweaked my grinder setting from 1.3 to 1.1 on my Macap M4. Filled up the basket with 21g of coffee.

    Resulted in 40ml in 45 seconds extraction. Im sure this isnt the best when going to competition.

    I blame it on that additional 1g of coffee, and maybe I should have set my grinder to 1.2.

    [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9L0w7hUDoE[/media]

    Latte art for the masses are attached.


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    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Naked Extraction - Improvement tips?

    I never weigh coffee
    Its my preference to dose to the machines tolerance
    That tolerance being the depth required of the tamped puck to just clear the machines shower screen when the PF is locked in
    That rule applies to all size baskets

    If one wants a stonger coffee then its preferable to use a larger basket than to overdose

    Have a look at Witch Strega thread of a naked video pour I posted

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1319882086/103

    KK


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    Re: Naked Extraction - Improvement tips?

    KK - great to hear from you. Been an avid follower of your posts.

    One of the biggest lessons for me while getting used to my current Izzo Vivi was the distance between the shower screen and puck. Prior to my learning to use the weighing machine, I tend to overdose. I remember it was an average of 27g of coffee on a double basket. The PF still fitted the grouphead perfectly, but channeling occurred very frequently. I have a feeling it has something to do with water dispersion - the "first drop" may not hit the puck (which is already touching the grouphead) on the centre, and hence create this uneven pressure down the puck. If there is space for water to build up, the pressure created at the grouphead will push this water down the puck in an even manner. Just a theory.

    Weighing ground coffee that fills the basket, in my opinion, is a good learning step to newbies to maintain consistency, as we do not get a chance to practice hundreds of times like in a cafe environment. I find weighing beans a not possible feat to attain consistency as more often than not, there is about 1-2g of ground coffee stuck in the chute or between the grinder blades.

    And dude, I love the video you posted on that thread. Wasnt that the Bezzera you sold a couple of weeks back? I didnt know it was a lever machine.

    Two questions though - at the first second of extraction, I notice the extraction comes uneven - like a sweeping motion from left to right. Does that matter? I always aim to have it come down in a circular motion inwards.

    And finally, what is the timing guideline to when the multiple droplets converge into one single pour? I notice mine takes awhile, but yours seem to come down within 1-2 seconds.

    I hope those questions are not being too anal.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Naked Extraction - Improvement tips?

    Quote Originally Posted by 61657E740C0 link=1339214387/6#6 date=1339298635
    And dude, I love the video you posted on that thread. Wasnt that the Bezzera you sold a couple of weeks back? I didnt know it was a lever machine.
    I have a few videos of all my past machines and roasters under the Koffee Kosmo name on You Tube
    The machine I sold recently was a Bezzera BZ40


    Quote Originally Posted by 61657E740C0 link=1339214387/6#6 date=1339298635
    Two questions though - at the first second of extraction, I notice the extraction comes uneven - like a sweeping motion from left to right. Does that matter? I always aim to have it come down in a circular motion inwards.

    It all depends on how the water distribution is pushed through the puck that determines the start of a pour & it could change every time :o
    All that matters is that the pour when it settles is in the center and it doesnt squirt everywhere ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by 61657E740C0 link=1339214387/6#6 date=1339298635
    And finally, what is the timing guideline to when the multiple droplets converge into one single pour? I notice mine takes awhile, but yours seem to come down within 1-2 seconds
    That will also change with every machine and its optimum operation
    Coupled with ones unique technique, tamp pressure, grind used, coffee type ect

    Dont get to stressed out with time as some machines have pre-infusion and may take a little longer

    Note there is no specific rule in the professional Barista competition that one must adhere to with regards to time of shot to produce XYZ ml of liquid

    If you want to stop your shot at 20 seconds because you like it? then who am I to stop you

    Enjoy the coffee as life is to short 8-)

    KK


  9. #9
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Naked Extraction - Improvement tips?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1C3831313232081C38243A38570 link=1339214387/7#7 date=1339310308
    Note there is no specific rule in the professional Barista competition that one must adhere to with regards to time of shot to produce XYZ ml of liquid
    Actually, there is. ;)

    13.6.1 Station Management

    D. The competitor should try to achieve extraction times within a 3.0 second variance and shot volume of 25-35 mL (30 mL +/- 5 mL).

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    Senior Member dski's Avatar
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    Re: Naked Extraction - Improvement tips?

    Quote Originally Posted by 27060D0D0A10630 link=1339214387/8#8 date=1339314823
    D. The competitor should try to achieve extraction times within a 3.0 second variance and shot volume of 25-35 mL (30 mL +/- 5 mL).
    Watching some Barista Championships recently, I got the impression that some of them would explain their rationale to the technical judges, when their technique varied from the standard expectations. Though actually its hard to hear what the baristas said. That would give certain leeway for creative choices.

    Is that accurate, or did I miss the point?


  11. #11
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Naked Extraction - Improvement tips?

    Quote Originally Posted by 11303B3B3C26550 link=1339214387/8#8 date=1339314823
    Quote Originally Posted by 1C3831313232081C38243A38570 link=1339214387/7#7 date=1339310308
    Note there is no specific rule in the professional Barista competition that one must adhere to with regards to time of shot to produce XYZ ml of liquid
    Actually, there is.* ;)

    13.6.1 Station Management

    D. The competitor should try to achieve extraction times within a 3.0 second variance and shot volume of 25-35 mL (30 mL +/- 5 mL).*
    I would consider the words " should try" more of a guide
    If that was replaced with the words " must archive" then it would be a rule

    Quote Originally Posted by 31263E3C550 link=1339214387/9#9 date=1339323032
    Quote Originally Posted by 27060D0D0A10630 link=1339214387/8#8 date=1339314823
    D. The competitor should try to achieve extraction times within a 3.0 second variance and shot volume of 25-35 mL (30 mL +/- 5 mL).
    Watching some Barista Championships recently, I got the impression that some of them would explain their rationale to the technical judges, when their technique varied from the standard expectations. Though actually its hard to hear what the baristas said. That would give certain leeway for creative choices.

    Is that accurate, or did I miss the point?
    I have also seen this by Baristas
    And wrightly so - coffee needs to be prepaired and brewd to bring out its full potential
    Prepaired meaning - roast profile and level

    KK

  12. #12
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Naked Extraction - Improvement tips?

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by 53777E7E7D7D4753776B7577180 link=1339214387/10#10 date=1339325714
    I would consider the words " should try"* more of a guide
    Yes, I understand where youre coming from, however, my quote comes from a document entitled, "20 12 W o r l d* *B a r i s t a* *C h a m p i o n s h i p* O f f i c i a l* *R u l e s* *a n d* *R e g u l a t i o n s".* No guidelines there.

    Theres plenty of use of the word should Paul.* For example, "the barista should purge the steam wand before steaming".* If the barista doesnt do it, they will be marked down and this is repeated throughout the document.*

    You can and would also lose points if you fall outside the 3 second variance or 25 ml to 35 ml extraction. My quote above is intended as an explanation to the technical skills espresso (part 2) of the espresso evaluation score sheet.* Therein the judge will mark either yes or no as to whether the extraction was within the 3 second variance allowance.*

    I understand this rule was changed recently to allow the barista contestant to nominate the timing of the shot outside what it should be prior to the pour, and this will permissable, but also timed.

    They carry a stopwatch to check. ;)

    Apologies for taking this further off topic.



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