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Thread: Decaf Beans

  1. #1
    Senior Member C-man's Avatar
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    Decaf Beans

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I was talking to my roaster and he said he has to carry decaf for those who want it, but does not recommend it.

    he said between the 2 methods of removing 98% of the caffeine, the water washed method is what he chose as he did not want to get involved in Chemicals, fair enough.

    according to him it is really no longer coffee and you can not get much if any crema from the shot.

    thoughts and other opinions please.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Decaf Beans

    Your roaster doesnt know what hes talking about.

  3. #3
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: Decaf Beans

    Quote Originally Posted by 650B4B4748260 link=1341528404/0#0 date=1341528404
    according to him it is really no longer coffee and you can not get much if any crema from the shot.
    Buy a bag of CS Decaf Wow from Andy and see for yourself. As many whove tried it have commented, it if wasnt for the lack of caffeine effect, you wouldnt know you arent drinking decaf. I agree with them.

    I think you need to visit a different cafe C-man. Im not sure your current guy is feeding you correct info. Good decaf can provide good coffee; short blacks dont deteriorate that quickly (but the flavour does change as it cools, not necessarily for the worse)

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    Re: Decaf Beans

    Yup, agreeing with others, Decaf Wow is excellent, and behaves pretty much exactly like "real" coffee, also tastes just like "real" coffee. The only discernible differences are that the roast looks really dark and theres no caffeine hit.

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    Re: Decaf Beans

    Quote Originally Posted by 4D4555425054534255270 link=1341528404/3#3 date=1341531141
    Yup, agreeing with others, Decaf Wow is excellent, and behaves pretty much exactly like "real" coffee, also tastes just like "real" coffee. The only discernible differences are that the roast looks really dark and theres no caffeine hit.
    This has been my experience to the T.
    I get just as much crema in a shot as regular coffee.

    Has been great for learning some basic espresso technique without sending me off the rails...

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    Senior Member benandfaith's Avatar
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    Re: Decaf Beans

    Ive never really had a good go with decaf, but have just started and I am pretty amazed by it: great crema, nice flavour... you really couldnt tell it was decaf from look and taste. (Im using Di Bellas decaf - have to try Decaf WOW soon!)

    Heres a pic of my effort last night. Looks bit washed out... crema looked a little darker in real life.

  7. #7
    Senior Member insomnispresso's Avatar
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    Re: Decaf Beans

    Quote Originally Posted by 036D2D212E400 link=1341528404/0#0 date=1341528404
    according to him it is really no longer coffee and you can not get much if any crema from the shot.
    Crema definately not an issue - see my attachment, Im pouring a 100% crema shot from Decaf WoW!!* :D

    Made to order for your thread, what service ;)


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    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Re: Decaf Beans

    C-man, tell your roaster to learn to adjust his/her grind. As well as the Decaf WOW, Ive tried several great Swiss Water method decafs which beat the #@$ out of many full strength blends as far as taste and crema go.

    To be fair....Ive tried coffee on the Sunshine Coast and hinterland and havent had much luck.

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    Senior Member C-man's Avatar
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    Re: Decaf Beans

    WOW! thanks guys, fantastic replies!!!!

    I am now convinced and will order some,

    Does Andy post green beans or only roasted ones?

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    Re: Decaf Beans

    Quote Originally Posted by 127C3C303F510 link=1341528404/8#8 date=1341606069
    Does Andy post green beans or only roasted ones?
    Yes.

    Go to BeanBay where you have a choice of how you pay and how they are sent for both greens and browns.

    In my experience they arrive by post in Sydney the day after ordering.

    It may take a little longer for the postal pony to arrive in Qld.

    Barry

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    Re: Decaf Beans

    Be aware though, Decaf is a very different beast to roast, there is a quite a learning curve to it (two roasts down, first was severely under roasted, the second Ill find out tonight).

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    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    Re: Decaf Beans

    From memory Andy recommends roasting to just prior to second crack, ie roasted by temp not colour. This is relatively easy to achieve if you use a data logger in your roasting setup as the the cracks occur at consistent temperatures.

    Cheers

  13. #13
    Senior Member C-man's Avatar
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    Re: Decaf Beans

    Quote Originally Posted by 0F09150B0E110D0C620 link=1341528404/7#7 date=1341574777
    To be fair....Ive tried coffee on the Sunshine Coast and hinterland and havent had much luck.

    yes, we only have Costa Noosa and poineer roasters up here

    not so spoiled for choice like you guys in the cities.

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    Senior Member C-man's Avatar
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    Re: Decaf Beans

    Talked briefly with the roaster again today (while he was super busy), I told him about the Great decaf you guys are talking about and told him it was a blend, he thinks that maybe why his single Origin Decaf does not work because it is not blended,
    he also agrees that decaf needs to be roasted differently.

    does it need a different grind as well?

    But now I have him looking into it.

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    Just like any different bean/blend you'll probably have to grind it differently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by artman View Post
    From memory Andy recommends roasting to just prior to second crack, ie roasted by temp not colour. This is relatively easy to achieve if you use a data logger in your roasting setup as the the cracks occur at consistent temperatures.
    See, that's the odd thing, the first roast I went to 212C and smoke, pulled it then in spite of having not heard first crack, it was WAY under done.

    In my (admittedly very limited) experience first crack generally happens (working from memory, my logbook is at home) ~180C, and second crack ~210C.

    Second batch I ignored the smoke and kept going, this time I *did* get what sounded like first crack, at about 220C, rolling at 225C which seems rather high, and it looks like some of the beans have gone through second crack too... Didn't get around to trying it yet though, maybe tonight.

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    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbrewster View Post
    See, that's the odd thing, the first roast I went to 212C and smoke, pulled it then in spite of having not heard first crack, it was WAY under done.

    In my (admittedly very limited) experience first crack generally happens (working from memory, my logbook is at home) ~180C, and second crack ~210C.

    Second batch I ignored the smoke and kept going, this time I *did* get what sounded like first crack, at about 220C, rolling at 225C which seems rather high, and it looks like some of the beans have gone through second crack too... Didn't get around to trying it yet though, maybe tonight.
    I think those temps are all going to be relative to your roasting / thermocouple setup. I use a bead thermocouple dropped into the bean mass in the I-Coffee, and hit 1st crack typically at about 205C and 2nd crack at or just above 225C. I have a memo to myself to try cutting the Decaf at 223C next time (just a touch oilier than ideal at 225C in my setup). I think there's a thread somewhere that explains that if you use the 'probe' type thermocouple (at least in some roasters) the temperature is consistently understated. Someone stripped back the outer casing of the end of the probe and then the temperatures were closer to 'normal'. Guess it doesn't matter as long as it is consistent on your setup.
    Barry O'Speedwagon

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    Quote Originally Posted by C-man View Post
    yes, we only have Costa Noosa and poineer roasters up here

    not so spoiled for choice like you guys in the cities.
    You need to look harder! Try Clandestino Roasters in Belmondos, half way around Rene Street, Noosaville. They are very good, excellent consistant coffee, syphon brews, chemex etc and just sit there drinking looking at the plane strapped to the roof!

    Also there are a few naturally low decaf beans around that I've seen.

    If you interested, I've arranged a social gathering up on the Sunshine Coast. http://coffeesnobs.com.au/showthread...s-Get-Together

  19. #19
    Senior Member mwcalder05's Avatar
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    My roaster does quite a dark roast for the decaf and It's does not taste bitter or burnt at all! And when I say dark, i'm talking almost black and oils.

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    Senior Member C-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lacehim View Post
    You need to look harder! Try Clandestino Roasters in Belmondos, half way around Rene Street, Noosaville. They are very good, excellent consistant coffee, syphon brews, chemex etc and just sit there drinking looking at the plane strapped to the roof!

    Also there are a few naturally low decaf beans around that I've seen.

    If you interested, I've arranged a social gathering up on the Sunshine Coast. http://coffeesnobs.com.au/showthread...s-Get-Together
    I know Belmondos, hadn't been there for some time, thus we did not know about the roaster there now,
    dropped by there today and had a Mexican Decaf pretty good!

    YES! we hope to come on Saturday
    Last edited by C-man; 10th July 2012 at 06:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mkwilson View Post
    I think those temps are all going to be relative to your roasting / thermocouple setup
    That's correct the absolute temperatures are not comparable between my setup and others, they are however comparable between different roasts on my setup, I've never had to push non-decaf beans anywhere near 230C as read on my setup.

    I use a bead thermocouple precisely for the reason that the junction on a probe type has significant heatsinking in the form of the body of the probe and as a consequence will read lower than "real" temperature, you're actually seeing something akin to the average temperature of the whole probe but within one setup it is going to be consistent, bead types also react faster to change (for the same reason).

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    Senior Member insomnispresso's Avatar
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    I've noticed with the Decaf WoW that if you have a lower rate/ramp going into first crack you may only get a handful of pops and they are quite spread out

    Guessing that the rolling cracks were second crack - try taking it 30-60 secs lighter than that point based on time & temp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by insomnispresso View Post
    I've noticed with the Decaf WoW that if you have a lower rate/ramp going into first crack you may only get a handful of pops and they are quite spread out

    Guessing that the rolling cracks were second crack - try taking it 30-60 secs lighter than that point based on time & temp.
    Thanks for the tips but my latest roast was much better, I had a look at my logbook and apparently my memory is faulty (no news there...) as my profiles for other beans actually look very much like the one I got out of this one.

    The first roast was under-done, but still tasted OK (to my complete and utter surprise), this one tasted sour (suggestive of being underdone) when I first tried it but on a whim I bumped the temperature on my Silvia's PID up 2 degrees, and whaddayaknow pretty smooth (just a shade of brightness but I prefer lighter roasts anyway), balanced and very, very tasty It would seem that it likes a higher extraction temperature than most of the other beans I use.

  24. #24
    Senior Member insomnispresso's Avatar
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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Glad to see you're enjoying it!

    Keep in mind higher brew temperature mutes acidity. I try to roast to a depth where I don't need to change from the default temp. Not to say either is right or wrong!



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