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Thread: Steaming for macchiato/piccolo

  1. #1
    Senior Member David8's Avatar
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    Steaming for macchiato/piccolo

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    In the interest of not wasting milk. What are people thoughts on the minimum volume milk jug that can be successfully used to produce high quality milk for macs and piccolo's? I'm talking for my diadema perfetta, which has quite a lot of steam power - which will probably be a large issue.

    I'm talking 300ml jugs? Preferably smaller? I've seen a 140ml jug?

    What are people's thoughts?

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    Senior Member specialpants's Avatar
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    My thoughts: definitely doable. What have you got at the moment?

    I'm using a 400ml jug which I can get away with - i just tilt the jug to create a bit of depth (as opposed to keeping the jug level). I suspect it'd be more manageable with a 300ml jug.

    It'll develop with time. For me, it was impossible with the duetto at first because it was too quick. I think the trick is to know where the sweet spot is and get it spot on from the start (introducing the right amount of air).

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    very noble of you, but at some point you're going to have to choose between either delivering a quality product for yourself and wasting 30c worth of milk, or suffering a less than quality product for the sake of a bit of milk. i would choose the former because in the case of the latter, aren't you really wasting more than 30c worth of milk?

    or just drink espresso unless you have a buddy to pull a latte for?

  4. #4
    Roz
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    As far as I know there is no stocker of anything smaller than 300ml in Aus not that I have been able to find.

    I purchased a 150ml from OrphanEspresso but it is very hard to get right in such a small jug even with the fairly "relaxed" steaming capabilities from the Breville DB but you can steam the perfect ammount for a piccolo without waste.

    The lowest I can go with good results in 300ml jug is enough for a piccolo and a bit more so there is wastage when I make one but if I make a piccolo I usually split a double shot between two cups and just make two haha

    Trying to steam milk in the 150ml jug with a machine capable of commercial type steam you would end up with it all on your face and bench.

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    Senior Member GrahamK's Avatar
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    While you would not do it for customers or guests, and I'm probably putting myself in the firing line for suggesting a cardinal sin, but instead of "wasting" the milk could you not pour the left-overs back into the bottle, and re-use it after it has chilled again?

    GrahamK

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    Steaming introduces structural changes in the proteins in the milk, you'd likely end up with very strange tasting milk that is very difficult (read, little to no chance of microfoam) to texture.

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    I am a big fan of the machiato and piccolo's. I have some really small jugs- maybe 100 ml or less that I use. These small stainless jugs can often be found in op-shops- they are the type used to serve milk with a tea or coffee pot... The fact is: it is very hard to get the same quality and richness as you can get using a larger volume of milk. But you can do it if you are lucky. It is very easy to go too far- or to get big bubbles.

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    Senior Member David8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrentinacoffee View Post
    I am a big fan of the machiato and piccolo's. I have some really small jugs- maybe 100 ml or less that I use. These small stainless jugs can often be found in op-shops- they are the type used to serve milk with a tea or coffee pot... The fact is: it is very hard to get the same quality and richness as you can get using a larger volume of milk. But you can do it if you are lucky. It is very easy to go too far- or to get big bubbles.
    Exactly. These are the jugs that i saw as well. Catering supply companies sell them really cheap. I will have to grab one and give it a try.

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    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Hhhhmmmmm......Maybe this jug would be small enough for ya. Yes it's stainless steel, and yes that's a 1.5oz shot glass next to it for comparison.


    Java "Small enough?" phile
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    I think you will need a smaller steam tip also ! ....
    ......just to fit in that jug !

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    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blend52 View Post
    I think you will need a smaller steam tip also ! ....
    ......just to fit in that jug !
    Nah. The Cimbali steam tip fits just fine!


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    TC
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    Nice one Java...

    ....and I thought the 100ml jug I use for minimal milk was small!

  13. #13
    Roz
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    tiny jugs are difficult to master, I think I would require more practice with mine even with slowing the steam on the Breville the milk comes to temp very fast.

    It's sitting next to my 300ml jug which gets most of the use for single coffees
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    Wega Mininova Classic Seeya_Latte's Avatar
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    For my mac's & piccolo lattes, I generally use a half filled 300ml InCasa cheapy.

    I have a no name brand 150ml which usually gets the better of me (I also doubt it was specifically designed for milk frothing but anyway...)

    Because things happen a hell of a lot faster, I find for my skill level, it's more miss than hit. 150 doesn't allow me a lot of time to compensate and make adjustments mid stream (which I can do with the bigger jugs). I reckon 6 out of 10 attempts I've either successfully over heated or didn't quite get the texture right. Fun to hone my skills yes, but as a go to jug especially if making macs for others, I always go to the smallest jug I know I can deliver consistent results with....and for me it is the 300.

    If I was using the 300ml 4 or 5 times a day and using only 20mls each time, then yes I would consider this a bit of a waste but sinking a bit more milk every now and then is fine with me. But luckily for me I don't have a lot to sink because more times than not, when I do macs and piccolo lattes, I'm making two of them at a time.

    Seeya

  15. #15
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    The main problem will not be the jug (although a small diameter base helps) but the steaming power of the machine.

    By reducing the size of the steam holes on my commercial Izzo I am easily able to get good micro foam of 50 ml or so.

    The steam holes are readily reduced by taking off the tip, winding a small amount of copper wire through the holes, tighten with a pair of pliers, and then replace the tip.

    Greg

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregWormald View Post
    The main problem will not be the jug (although a small diameter base helps) but the steaming power of the machine.

    By reducing the size of the steam holes on my commercial Izzo I am easily able to get good micro foam of 50 ml or so.

    The steam holes are readily reduced by taking off the tip, winding a small amount of copper wire through the holes, tighten with a pair of pliers, and then replace the tip.

    Greg
    Exactly my solution on my Isomac since i mostly do piccolo's.
    Reduced to single hole tip works nicely.

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    I use a small stainless steel Turkish coffee pot or briki to steam small amounts of milk.

    I didn’t like the Turkish coffee it makes but it works well to steam a small dose.

    It is much bigger than the Javajug.

    Barry
    Last edited by Barry_Duncan; 10th August 2012 at 10:23 AM.

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    Senior Member David8's Avatar
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    Alright. So these are the sort of jugs I've seen. From memory 'jug1' or the jug with straight sides had two volumes (at least at the shop I went to) 140mL and 300mL. But it's quite short, so I'm worried that the whirlpool will force milk out of the top. 'jug2' (with angled sides) only came in 300mL (? i think) - although another website has a 140mL in this shape as well. In my opinion jug2 seems like a better shape, what do others think?
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    My sister in law found this at a Vinnies, thought it was 'cute' but didn't actually know what to use it for, I nabbe it when she move house.
    It holds about 190ml to the brim (pic shows size compared with my S26) and was quite challenging to use, especially after increasing my steam capacity (drilled out one of the steam tip holes, a latte worth of milk in 8 sec.)
    It really is about practice, I make sure I give the steam wand a really good purge before I start, I guess that gives the dryer steam, but then don't have the steam fully open when I texture te milk. If I get it wrong the milk swirls right out the jug and goes everywhere!
    Now days I can do enough milk for an espresso cup bubbachino for the little one. The spout isn't good enough for any kind of art on the piccolos or mac's though, oh well.

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    Sorry all, can't seem to upload pics from my phone. Will post tomoro.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Rocky's Avatar
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    Hi David. We must be long lost brudders. I have a Diadema Perfetta and my usual tipple is a Piccolo Latte plus a Macchiato. Admittedly I usually also make a small Cappuccino for my Son at the same time. When it's only me, I use my 300ml jug and just resign myself to wasting a small amount of milk because I find it so easy to steam in this sized jug whereas smaller jugs are more difficult to handle (what are we discussing here?)
    Because Perfettas steam like a steam locomotive, a jug that is too small with too little milk tends to end up over everything.
    I could see a 200ml jug being OK with practice, however.
    Good Luck.

  22. #22
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    This is an old thread but I have used jug 2 (with angled sides) lately for my double shot flat white with good results. On reflection, it's sort of similar to a Motta jug.

    There is a much smaller margin of error obviously but I don't like wasting milk out of respect for the animal that it comes from.

    There don't seem to be many 150ml traditional shaped jugs in Australia, but it appears they are pretty cheap on AliExpress if you're patient.

  23. #23
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Any excess I steam I drink so no wastage.



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