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Thread: Cafe reviews

  1. #1
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    Cafe reviews

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    any good websites that review cafes in australia? Real independent reviews?

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    Re: Cafe reviews


    Hey

    As a cafe owner cafe reviews websites on line are terrible. Its a hit and miss with these guys and are their palates really that good? Ive had several of these reviews and i have tested these guys myself to see if they know anything. Some guys order lattes and judge your coffee on just that latte. Is that really the right way to review someone? They question and make judgements on your ability, but who questions them?. Can they make a coffee? Can they make a coffee 10 hours a day 7 days a week? Do they roast? Anyone can hide behind a computer and write reviews, i challenge any of these guys to come and work behind a machine. Reading anything on line check out the persons background

    You really have to be a regular at a cafe to know how good the coffee is. Ive had bad and good coffees at my favourite cafes. But i understand the work behind it and sometimes you can get an average coffee at the best cafes.
    Recommedations from coffeesnobs or geeks is great. Which city do are you interested in?

    Andrew

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Most review sites Ive seen take input from the general public and as AndyL said they look a bit hit and miss.

    Id trust the recommendations from here before gambling on a review site.

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Yep, gotta agree. Bad coffee reviews are plentiful. Good reviews are as rare as hens teeth. I wouldnt trust any review that doesnt disclose the identity of the reviewer and any vested interests they might have, their level of experience and the number and type of coffees that they have had. Im also very wary of anyone that gives the full allocation of points or describes espresso as "strong," as it raises the question of whether or not the reviewer is actually capable of discriminating between different coffee.

    Off the top of my head, here are some attrocities that I have seen:

    -Public coffee review webpage lists a cafe as the best based on a single hot chocolate.

    -Coffee review blog gives cafe a caning without saying much about the coffee itself, but making it clear that they dont like the roaster.

    -Coffee review book with many contributors doesnt disclose who reviewed what. Mecca Espresso gets an OK review, but full marks go to a cafe that uses stale beans from Italy.

    I have to say, though, that The Age seems to have lifted its game a bit recently.

    Cheers,

    Luca

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    A few more for you Luca, whats a "smooth" or "Melbourne-style" coffee? ;)

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    I would rate a smooth coffee as probably a latte. and if the description takes the form of a review, I would say it was written by someone who didnt know what they were talking about - either that or dumbed down for a so-called uneducated audience.

    Coffee reviews should be based on a 30ml (or less) espresso only, as the espresso is the basis for all good coffee.

    And I would describe an espresso in terms of complexity, mouth feel, balance, acidity, palate profile, aroma, and individual flavour characteristics.

    As for a "Melbourne-style" coffee, I would say that it doesnt exist, except for a handful of places which are paving the way with leading edge innovation, and remarkable consistency.

    If anything, a Melbourne-style coffee might be more mocha flavoured than the so-called citrus influence of the Sydney style!

    Every coffee experience should be treated on its individual merits, and whats true one day, aint necessarily true the next!

    pat

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    "Every coffee experience should be treated on its individual merits, and whats true one day, aint necessarily true the next! "

    My guiding philosophy - comparisons between cafes are a mistake and I reckon youd have to go more than once if you want to understand their style and check for consistency.

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Yes grendel,

    And then a few brews from each of their Baristi at different times of the day to make sure you sample a good cross-section of the product from each premises.... A not insignificant task :o,

    Mal.

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyL link=1170561610/0#1 date=1170566481


    You really have to be a regular at a cafe to know how good the coffee is. Ive had bad and good coffees at my favourite cafes. But i understand the work behind it and sometimes you can get an average coffee at the best cafes.
    Recommedations from coffeesnobs or geeks is great. Which city do are you interested in?

    Andrew
    north brisbane area, ive been going to a few places and ive found one im really happy with. I just wanted to check i hadnt overlooked any good places.

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Quote Originally Posted by askthecoffeeguy link=1170561610/0#5 date=1170584806

    Coffee reviews should be based on a 30ml (or less) espresso only, as the espresso is the basis for all good coffee.
    I wouldnt agree with that, you can still make a bad latte with a good shot.

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Quote Originally Posted by askthecoffeeguy link=1170561610/0#5 date=1170584806

    As for a "Melbourne-style" coffee, I would say that it doesnt exist, except for a handful of places which are paving the way with leading edge innovation, and remarkable consistency.

    If anything, a Melbourne-style coffee might be more mocha flavoured than the so-called citrus influence of the Sydney style!

    pat
    As opposed to the charred, burnt style favoured in many Adelaide establishments. ::) :(

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    You sure theyre not serving sumiyaki style coffee?

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Coffee in Australia

    just got back from the U.S and Australia baristi i believe are better. However there a so many more great baristi and amazing cafes in the U.S. The Australians work a lot faster because our customers will not wait. If there is a line people will just walk away. In the U.S they will line up forever and lines will last for the whole day. I didnt see anyone in the U.S working in a complete zone, which i see in Australia. So many top guns in Melbourne and Sydney. All over Australia is getting better. Generally coffee in Seattle in better and more skilled. Every where you go there is a La Marzocca. The local 24 hour supermarket has amazing equipment. Seattle had too many great places.

    Australian cafes have a long history of espresso. Thats all we really drink now.

    As a country i think we make amazing coffee.
    Kiwis are pretty good too.
    Ok your norwegians, swedes and danish are up there. The best there are scary
    But generally they drink garbage and huge lattes.
    Everywhere has bad coffee, but there are so many establishments that are doing amazing things.


    Andrew

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyb link=1170561610/0#8 date=1170634560
    north brisbane area, ive been going to a few places and ive found one im really happy with. I just wanted to check i hadnt overlooked any good places.
    Try Caffiene espresso in Tennerieffe(sp?)

    or depending on how north, try me at Pioneer Roastery - Yandina

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Have tried Pioneer many times and in all honestly i love the coffee. Thru the synesso its really good. I wish Jas and Luke could taste it, because it was really good


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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyb link=1170561610/0#9 date=1170634740
    I wouldnt agree with that, you can still make a bad latte with a good shot.

    Actually, I would say that it is much harder to make a quality espresso than it is to make a cafe latte, as you can disguise a lot with the milk, but you cant get away with much when it comes to 30ml of pure unadulterated caffeine bliss!

    P ;)

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Agreed, but what if you are not an espresso drinker but like lots of different milk coffees; does that exclude you from being a coffee reviewer.

    Conversely, if you only drink espresso are you able to make a quality judgment of a coffee with milk?

    You might be the best espresso judge on the planet but lactose intolerant.

    So a lot more needs to be known about the reviewer before an objective judgement can be made of their review.

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    But the reviewers never state their credentials nor what they based their reviews on.

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Exactly.

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Check out http://cafesmelbourne.com/article/53/the-maling-room

    I got a 12 out 20!! Typical of reviews. People love to rip into you.

    These guys wouldnt have a clue what it takes to open a cafe and work.

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyL link=1170561610/15#19 date=1170836607
    Check out http://cafesmelbourne.com/article/53/the-maling-room

    I got a 12 out 20!! Typical of reviews. People love to rip into you.

    These guys wouldnt have a clue what it takes to open a cafe and work.
    Worry not, Andrew. Seems like some opinionated tool who wouldnt know what good was if it turned around and bit him on the butt ::). What you need to do is switch to 12 month old Italian import coffee...Whos on his self-appointed team of two and what real qualifications or experience do they have? Serve him International roast next time :P

    Nevertheless, I have always thought that reviews are very dangerous territory.

    On a positive note, the Sydney guide people send at least three people to buy coffee and average the results. Gotta be a start if we have to go this way....

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    At least you got a rating.
    Some reviews didnt get a score despite a positive review.

    "The coffee was quite good, but not up to our expectations*"
    NO explanation of what the expectations were, despite the asterisk.

    I got a bit lost though trying to find the coffee reviews amongst the gushings about the food and decor.

    This guy just wants his own website.

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Hi, (Andrew / 2muchcoffeeman)

    Firstly, Andrew - 12/20 is not so bad! Read our review fully to see that along with our particular criticism; we give credit too.

    After reading the review, a person will gather that its the atmosphere of the cafe which we were not drawn to on this occasion, and that the coffee wasnt bad at all -- only not up to our expectations.

    A problem with being told that coffee at an establishment is fantastic either by recommendation or advertisement is that one tends to expect just this. Melbourne cafes serve up the best tasting coffee Ive ever had, so I can only say... theres some hot competition out there.

    And 2muchcoffeman -- what can I say? Your name says it all!

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    PS... Thundergod

    Some reviews dont get ratings because that contributor doesnt believe in them -- no other reason!

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Quote Originally Posted by nunu link=1170561610/15#17 date=1170814570
    But the reviewers never state their credentials nor what they based their reviews on.
    Without choosing up sides, looks like theres an opportunity to rectify that....

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    As I see it, there is no side, really. Our site is, well, just a site. Only by reading and visiting the cafes weve reviewed will a person form an alignment or lack there-of of our commentary.

    There are no credentials.

    Our reviews are based on two things, primarily:

    1. Coffee quality
    2. Atmosphere

    Atmosphere is a big one and takes into account a lot of things - lighting, music, layout, people, feeling or vibe, to name some. And theres no really formula to the reviews, they change in form. Thats why our site is no good for some -- they might want an expert coffee opinion by some important person. Or perhaps a quick, fast rating (we hope people will read).

    When we judge a coffee its generally a long black, and youll find this mentioned.

    I would hope in the reading that one does not come to the opinion of high-minded, all knowledgeable coffee-testers. Our site is a small one. We attempt to get across the feeling of a place.

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Important note -- the two points, coffee quality and atmosphere are not in order of importance.

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Constructive criticism is the best review.

    Giving a rating is a bit worthless. Each particular criterion has a set value. A cafe that lacks in one criterion cannot possibly make it up by being great in others. At the end, the total is summed up to give you the final rating.

    Like hats/stars, a restaurant can get two of them on food alone. Why then are cafes not majority rated on the coffee they produce?

    One visit doesnt necessarily make a good review. Its consistency that really counts. You need to compare the consistency between busy and slow times. If a cafe pulls god shots when theyre empty, and produces swill when theyre flat out, its not very representative if you only go when theyre flat out/not busy.

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    martini Im an auditor so in my professional opinion you need consistancy.
    Rate or dont.
    If you want to leave things as they are, then how about an explanation up front.

    While you are explaining, how about offering up your credentials.

    I did like the fact that you mentioned taking a "cappuccino tester".

    But what qualifies her or you for that matter?
    If you are just like me, a passionate good coffee drinker, then say so.
    If you are a barista competition judge, then say so.

    Do you have your own equipment?
    Have you worked behind a machine in a cafe?

    And how can you expect AndyL to not think 12/20 is bad?

    By the way, your attempt at humour at 2muchcoffeemans expense was bordering on insulting in my books.

    We dont know you.
    You register just to post a defence to AndyLs complaint and to me have made a very good first impression.

    I hope you stick around so we can get to know you better.
    I dont judge a book by its cover, best to read it and see how it turns out.

    Back to you..............

    EDIT: Cross posted. Feel free to answer any points you dont think you already have while I was writing the above.

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Fair enough....youve cleared that up, which is more than a lot of reviewers are willing to do. Not overly rapt in the criteria, but to each their own..

    but 12/20 suggests to me a pretty ordinary coffee, especially when most of the other places reviewed seemed to be getting 15, 15.5, 16/20...

    And from my (admittedly limited) experience with Maling Room, pretty ordinary coffee wasnt something that they had...

    I know that a lot of this score gets put down to vibe, but thats a pretty subjective thing, isnt it?

    Im not bashing the site - but I can see why people would take issue with the review. Your comments about taking the positives out of the 12/20 score - well, there werent really any positives, apart from saying that the coffee was pretty good, but not up to expectations. Which isnt really overly positive....

    (and dont go thinking Im a high-minded, all knowledgeable coffee-tester. I just like the stuff... :))

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Expectations are things that completely ruin a review. Objectivity is completely thrown out the window.

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Atmosphere means nothing if the coffee is no good.

    Of course you could always ask for a water.

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundergod link=1170561610/15#28 date=1170852109
    By the way, your attempt at humour at 2muchcoffeemans expense was bordering on insulting in my books.
    err....he did call the guy an opinionated tool.....

    wanna throw some, gotta wear some....

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Touché.

    Maybe just my dry sense of humour too. ;)

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Hi martini,

    Firstly let me say that living in Western Australia I have no knowledge of the coffee quality served in that part of the world (other than the occasional visit)...

    But reading that review.... Id say the atmosphere is cr@p.... and the coffee is only a bit better..... certainly not a place Id even think of visiting...

    So - not knowing the establishment at all, it seems a pretty negative review.... and your comments here seem to indicate otherwise....

    To me 12 / 20 i.e. 60% is a failing grade (sure was when I went to school...) so maybe a review of how you rate is called for - or is it really that bad?

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundergod link=1170561610/30#33 date=1170852589
    Touché.

    Maybe just my dry sense of humour too. ;)
    I see your Touché, and raise you an Author! Author!

    Well played, sir.

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Quote Originally Posted by JavaB link=1170561610/30#34 date=1170852824

    To me 12 / 20 i.e. 60% is a failing grade (sure was when I went to school...)
    Not anymore. Isnt it called deferred success now?

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Conceded pass is 45-49%. 60% is still passing at uni.

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Quote Originally Posted by nunu link=1170561610/30#37 date=1170853136
    Conceded pass is 45-49%. 60% is still passing at uni.
    Actually, at my uni, 60% scrapes in for a C grade. But dont get me started on that....last thing this thread needs is a 3 page off-topic rant about slipping academic standards.....

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    In my day.... (not talking Uni but school)... you had to get over 60%

    Probably just so more students got the edge of a rule across the knuckles :( (kind of gives my age away).....

    And not everyone thinks Uni scores (I never do - the pain of 60% or less made too much of an impression so to speak ;) ::)).... Uni was far less painful!

    Just to get back on topic.... I, and Im sure many others, wouldnt give anything with a 60% rating a look in ----- Its just too low!

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    I have to be thoroughly convinced to go to a cafe to have coffee. No offense to those doing it tough. Its just that the city(Sydney) or Melbourne are just too inconvenient for me to go just for coffee. The coffee in my neck of the woods is barely drinkable(to my standards anyway).

    This community knows enough, and gives recommendations where theyre due. The Maling Room would be highly recommended by many here, and thats what really counts.


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    Re: Cafe reviews

    I think we need to bring the heat down a couple of degrees here folks, I see a lot of collars starting to become saturated with sweat...

    Reviewers-- of any kind, do not have to have any credentials. *Their credibility determines their fate. If a film reviewer consistently is out of kilter with his/her audience, over time no-one will read the material. *

    Credentials? You dont have to be Steven Spielberg to write a film review, or Stephanie Alexander to write a restaurant review.

    But the review does have to be literate, sound credible and mature. Ive never been to the Mailing Room, but as a review the piece did have those elements. Now, were I to go there and find the reviewer really had no clue....I would be very sceptical about being influenced by the next cafe to be placed under the microscope.

    In Melbourne, a Herald-Sun restaurant reviewer, Stephen Downes, was nick-named Close-em Downes because of his destructive critiques and the effect they have on establishments.

    He still flourishes....

    --Robusto

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Are we rating coffee or cafes? If were really rating cafes then Id be really irritated if I had to crane my neck or actually get off my butt to get to the cake display *::). Read a few more reviews...Seems like the quality of the eggs is waaaay more important...Andrew doesnt serve eggs...Mark that as a major strike and deduct 5 points? Sheesh...

    If its coffee that is being rated, then there are a whole heap of criteria used to judge a coffee. Perhaps some useful information to help rate a coffee might come from something like a WBC judges sheet? Where was there anything about flavour, aroma, body and acidity? Was there any note about what the reveiwer didnt like about the coffee? Nup... Anything about say perhaps specifics of the flavour tasted? Nup...Maybe the capp. reviewer prefers overheated milk crud on underextracted stale swill?? Who knows??

    All in all about as useless as the proverbials on a bull if you ask me.....

    Might I suggest that a good sampling of any cafes espresso wares is in something like an espresso and then a strong milky drink- after all, their blend is designed to cater primarily for milk coffee and shorter drinks.

    Youd also get a good idea of whether the cafe actually knew anything about standards that way.

    So, no change to my opinion....Nothing to suggest that they actually know anything about good coffee and therefore no cred. An absolutely useless review....

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Quote Originally Posted by robusto link=1170561610/30#41 date=1170877874
    Reviewers-- of any kind, do not have to have any credentials. Their credibility determines their fate. If a film reviewer consistently is out of kilter with his/her audience, over time no-one will read the material.
    Not necessarily:


    Quote Originally Posted by robusto link=1170561610/30#41 date=1170877874

    In Melbourne, a Herald-Sun restaurant reviewer, Stephen Downes, was nick-named Close-em Downes because of his destructive critiques and the effect they have on establishments.

    He still flourishes....

    --Robusto
    The Herald-Sun also has a film reviewer (Leigh Paatsch), who is also flourishing. I, and quite a few people I know, gauge whether a movie is worth seeing based on the opposite of what he says. So by being out of touch with a section of the audience, he does alright...

    Youre right, in that you dont need any credentials to be a reviewer. But I generally treat a review with less skepticism when the reviewer demonstrates to me (by their background or general knowledge in an industry, or formal training, education etc) that their opinion is one worth listening to. For example, if Im going to go and buy a new grinder, Im more inclined to listen to people on this forum, who have day-to-day experience using the things, than, say, Choice magazine, that may have tried each item once, and have maybe never ever used one before that.

    All this doesnt mean I expect Dr Coffee, or Dr Movies, PhD etc next to a reviewers name, but from what I read in that review (and it was a cafe review, not a coffee review), was that not only should I avoid the place based on the atmosphere, but the coffee is nothing special either. This doesnt fit with the general impressions I had, from reading posts on CS about the place (which was why I checked it out in the first place).

    My point is - while you can be critical of the actual coffee part of the review, you dont have a WBC sheet for funkiness; its all subjective - you could give Starbucks 20/20 for atmosphere, if you happened to like that atmosphere, and thered be people whod agree with you. As a coffee review, it really doesnt give any information at all, but I dont think (and correct me if Im wrong, martinl) that this is what it purports to be. As a cafe review, however, it has its merits, if you treat it as a subjective review of a particular place on one particular day.

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Its the type of site we are that allows us to write as we do... its not a professional column... were no professioanls! The tone of the writing is of someone just sitting and musing.

    Im no barrister, dont work at a cafe, no machine. (edit: errr, no barista either -- we are not pros! Wew.)

    If this were the case, and I was a pro, I would face the site differently. Theres be more photos and probably a section dedicated to coffee tasting. The site probably wouldve been called something else, with more an emphasis on coffee. Note the name is cafe reviews -- not coffee reviews. We do love coffee of course,and a good crema!

    The concept is maybe a bit different, in that were writing as much about the cafe itself, (the building and the people inside, and music, etc.) as the coffee... in fact, the coffee is only part of it... its very important, but only a part.

    The cafe experience is a bit like a film (now I’ve lost you all hahahaha). There’s a beginning, middle and end. There’s lighting, music, and people. There’s conversation. There’s continuity too, which can be broken, like receiving a wrong coffee or not knowing how to order. Unlike the film, there’s coffee. A good cafe session will, like the film, see you walking back out into the real world a bit dazed, or hyped up, or in some ‘state’ at least.

    (Like film being damn hard to make right, so’s the cafe.)

    I have thought about a how we do a review, section, but at the time it just seemed a boring and self-interested. We just like to write about cafes cause we like em!

  46. #46
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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Quote Originally Posted by martinl link=1170561610/30#44 date=1170886506
    Im no barrister
    Huh?

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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Martini,

    These days every man and his dog has a cafe review webpage. I actually like yours a fair bit more than some of the others, but I think that you need to work on your coffee vocabulary. I skimmed through your last few reviews and the coffee was basically only ever described as "good," "strong," "fair trade" or "organic." If you would like to do some palate-building exercises, please feel free to send me a PM and Ill see what I can do.

    Cheers,

    Luca

  48. #48
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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Quote Originally Posted by luca link=1170561610/45#46 date=1170895325
    These days every man and his dog has a cafe review webpage.
    *
    That gives me an idea...

    This may have come up previously, so my apologies if that is the case.
    Could we have a section on this forum dedicated to cafe reviews? Well, itd really be coffee reviewing, with a slight acknowledgement of the other factors that constitute a cafe *;)
    Maybe have someone with some knowledge of such things set out some criteria for reviewing. I know I, for one, am more inclined to trust my fellow snobs than anything I read elsewhere.

    I suppose theres dangers legally? Or of people joining up to self-promote?

    Anyway, just a thought...

  49. #49
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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Quote Originally Posted by luca link=1170561610/45#46 date=1170895325
    These days every man and his dog has a cafe review webpage.
    My cats only comment on the aroma of the roasted beans. They cant be bothered to try espresso or any other coffee drinks.

    Review a cafes espresso first and foremost. Then review a milk-based drink (latte/flat white). Both without sugar of course. You really need to be able to distinguish whether the coffee was made properly in the first place. Thats where the spresso comes in. Then you can rate the preparation of the milk in the milk-based drink. You can easily tell if the milk is burnt by both taste and texture of the milk.

    Lucas offer to help build your palate is a boon, and you should accept wholeheartedly. Once youve become familiar with the nuances of the espresso, the rest of coffee is academic.


    Food and atmosphere are of slightly less importance than the coffee. If the building is rustic, it should be reflected in the decor and ambience. It should feel like your nans place. If its more industrial/modern, you can get the idea. A cafe shouldnt have an extensive menu. Its not a restaurant. Light meals and pastries should be as far as the menu should go. The exception of course is if the place does nightly trading. For dinner mains, simplicity should be the order of the day.

  50. #50
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    Re: Cafe reviews

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by mwatt link=1170561610/45#45 date=1170894806
    Quote Originally Posted by martinl link=1170561610/30#44 date=1170886506
    Im no barrister
    Huh?
    ;D ;D ;D ;D

    Well seeing Ive criticised the review process, I though I should put my "money where my mouth is" and offer some suggestions....

    Thinking about the cafes Ive visited in Perth....

    Rating 0-1
    There are cups, plates left on tables etc, the cafe looks untidy, the ambiance is zero, there are coffee grounds of some unknown mass bean roaster sitting in the doser (and have been for god knows how long). The staff look disinterested and non professional. The steam wand you can see is coated with milk, the other is in the jug of milk waiting to be textured (again) and that is done by just turning on the steam!!
    The long black is extracted by passing the full cup through the PF, and the coffee is the right colour and served in an actual cup..... and thats about all you can say.....
    The sort of place you would give a very wide berth in future!

    Rating 10-11
    The establishment is clean and tidy, ambience is nothing to feel warm and fuzzy about. The beans are your average chain type bean, You get polite and courteous service from the staff who are neatly attired... all the equipment appears to be well maintained, fresh milk is textured each time and the staff appear to know what they are doing. The coffee tastes reasonable - but nothing to write home about.... The long black is extracted properly with creama on the surface. The cups used are preheated....
    Its your typical franchise cafe where most of the equipment and the beans themselves are dictated by the franchise..... You would drink the coffee there if there was nothing better on offer..... and its just your "average" coffee!

    Rating 19-20
    There is a superb ambience (which is a very subjective call as some like busy, active areas with music etc - others prefer a quiet area.) The whole area is spacious and inviting. The staff are in really smart, professional looking clean uniforms, the equipment is the best available (e.g. LM or synesso) and there is a range of speciality beans on offer with cupping notes displayed etc. The staff can recommend a variety and discuss the varieties on offer. The milk is textured so it is ultra fine and creamy.... and flat milk drinks have latte art on the surface.... The long black is full bodied and great flavour with dark crema on the surface. You are so impressed by the environment, service and quality of the coffee served that you would go out of your way to get there. It is a truly memorable experience!

    Now with those three points defined, it would be easier to slot the range of cafes into a rating system. For example in Perth there are quite a few in the 0 -5 category..... you would then jump to the 8-12 range (where I would rate most) - then a diminishing number as the ratings increased with one cafe miles ahead at the 19-20 mark (Im going there this afternoon)!

    Just my second crack worth!



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