Results 1 to 26 of 26

Thread: Long black

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    69

    Long black

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi all just would like if someone could clarify for me what's the correct way to make a long black. ATM I'm making it in a cappucino mug 190 ml, fill the mug 2/3 water from my machine, then top up with the extracted brew, is this correct? Also I'm making a milk base coffee in a espresso cup, have a shot of brew then top it off with heated milk, what is this called?

    Cheers
    Kike

  2. #2
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    26
    Hi Kike, yes your long black is correct, hot water first then 60ml of espresso on top (a double shot)
    your small milk base would be a Piccolo Latte (mini latte) assuming it has a small amount of froth with the milk

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    69
    Hi Logar, thanks for info. So it's a Piccolo latte then, yeah it has froth.

    Cheers

  4. #4
    Senior Member mwcalder05's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Sunshine Coast
    Posts
    437

    Long black

    Here is an example of a piccolo mate. Sometimes it's made with just a ristretto rather than a full shot.

    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1356598981.994467.jpg

  5. #5
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    2,095
    Nice glass mw.

  6. #6
    enjoy black coffee JamesM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    672
    I always hated long blacks and prefer other filter brew methods for black coffee... until I visited a well known Perth espresso bar on Howard St and the owner served me one up, knowing I like filter brews... it blew me away, it was actually nicer than the same coffee on v60 pour over.

    Some people just know how to nail coffee on specific brew methods (or perhaps even all brew methods)!

    Re-kindled my love for no-milk espresso based drinks.

  7. #7
    Senior Member mwcalder05's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Sunshine Coast
    Posts
    437
    Thanks chokkidog! got 6 of them from santa!

  8. #8
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    6,825
    My method of making a long black differs from the norm.
    I grind coarser than I would for a shot.
    Adjust grind for a flow of approx 160ml in 30 seconds, 18 grams in a double basket, no hot water.
    This results in a long black with excellent crema, more viscous mouth feel and great flavour, give it a go, I doubt you will be disappointed.
    Have described this in the past with little interest shown, guess the standard method is too well entrenched.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Central Coast NSW
    Posts
    679
    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    My method of making a long black differs from the norm.
    I grind coarser than I would for a shot.
    Adjust grind for a flow of approx 160ml in 30 seconds, 18 grams in a double basket, no hot water.
    This results in a long black with excellent crema, more viscous mouth feel and great flavour, give it a go, I doubt you will be disappointed.
    Have described this in the past with little interest shown, guess the standard method is too well entrenched.
    Never heard / read of this, but I will be giving it a go.

    I guess it goes against everything that is indoctrinated about espresso machine extraction.

    Cheers

  10. #10
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    6,825
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve82 View Post
    Never heard / read of this, but I will be giving it a go.

    I guess it goes against everything that is indoctrinated about espresso machine extraction.

    Cheers
    Would be interested to know what you think of the result.

  11. #11
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    10,496
    I understand where you're coming from Yelta but don't remember you mentioning it before.
    I'm tempted to give that a go this weekend.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    6,825
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundergod View Post
    I understand where you're coming from Yelta but don't remember you mentioning it before.
    I'm tempted to give that a go this weekend.
    Was quite some time ago TG, let me know what you reckon, I would value your opinion.

  13. #13
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Illawarra
    Posts
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    My method of making a long black differs from the norm.
    I grind coarser than I would for a shot.
    Adjust grind for a flow of approx 160ml in 30 seconds, 18 grams in a double basket, no hot water.
    This results in a long black with excellent crema, more viscous mouth feel and great flavour, give it a go, I doubt you will be disappointed.
    Have described this in the past with little interest shown, guess the standard method is too well entrenched.
    roughly this is the method I have used for over a decade, sometimes I get great coffee..... sometimes I get dirty water.

    After reading these forums and others have found out that you need consistency in grinding etc and that I something I have lacked. Also I used to grind coffee and put in an airtight container and use that for a week or two and I think thats a no no.

    Anyway I am waiting for my new machine to arrive ( the way its going it will be next year ) and will be going the hot water in microwave then add a double shot..............

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    2,615
    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    My method of making a long black differs from the norm.
    I grind coarser than I would for a shot.
    Adjust grind for a flow of approx 160ml in 30 seconds, 18 grams in a double basket, no hot water.
    This results in a long black with excellent crema, more viscous mouth feel and great flavour, give it a go, I doubt you will be disappointed.
    Have described this in the past with little interest shown, guess the standard method is too well entrenched.
    I've never had a long black, and being an espresso purist don't appreciate the concept. Having said that, I would have thought that running the extra water through the coffee would be preferable to straight water with coffee on top.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    6,825
    Quote Originally Posted by wlsutton View Post
    roughly this is the method I have used for over a decade, sometimes I get great coffee..... sometimes I get dirty water.

    After reading these forums and others have found out that you need consistency in grinding etc and that I something I have lacked. Also I used to grind coffee and put in an airtight container and use that for a week or two and I think thats a no no.

    Anyway I am waiting for my new machine to arrive ( the way its going it will be next year ) and will be going the hot water in microwave then add a double shot..............
    Why not continue with the the way you have been doing it WLS, once you get the method down pat, in my opinion makes a far superior long black to the hot water and shot/s on top method, I'm drinking one right now.
    Good luck with buying a new machine, do you have anything in mind?

  16. #16
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    6,825
    Quote Originally Posted by robusto View Post
    Having said that, I would have thought that running the extra water through the coffee would be preferable to straight water with coffee on top.
    To my taste it certainly is, others don't seem to share my enthusiasm.

  17. #17
    Senior Member brokenvase's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Chapel Hill, QLD
    Posts
    273

    Long black

    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    To my taste it certainly is, others don't seem to share my enthusiasm.
    You got to try everything once to rule it out or get pleasantly surprised... I'll give it a shot tomorrow

  18. #18
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    6,825
    Quote Originally Posted by brokenvase View Post
    You got to try everything once to rule it out or get pleasantly surprised... I'll give it a shot tomorrow
    I've said it before, let me know what you think? as yet no one has bothered.
    Perhaps it's because there are not many among us who enjoy a long black.

  19. #19
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Illawarra
    Posts
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Why not continue with the the way you have been doing it WLS, once you get the method down pat, in my opinion makes a far superior long black to the hot water and shot/s on top method, I'm drinking one right now.
    Good luck with buying a new machine, do you have anything in mind?
    have had the Rancho Silvia and Rocky Grinder and am try some blends from here

    my current recipe is a mid black :-) 40mm of water in a cup that is microwaved for 30 secs then sugar and then a double shot for between 25 to 30 secs

    Not bad .... the major difference is the pressure on the tamper ... not enough and the cup fills a lot faster

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    2,615
    Quote Originally Posted by robusto View Post
    I've never had a long black, and being an espresso purist don't appreciate the concept. Having said that, I would have thought that running the extra water through the coffee would be preferable to straight water with coffee on top.
    I've been giving this matter a lot of thought---more than I should seeing how I've never had a long black and don't intend to have one.

    But just applying the science of espresso to the concept of the long black, I suspect the reasoning behind my earlier post may be...well, somewhat suspect.

    There is a point where a well-dosed, tamped and extracted espresso is perfect. Any further extraction, and it becomes bitter, the crema pales as unwanted compounds filter through the puck into the shot.

    So, by trying to turn the espresso into a long black by virtue of extra water volume through the puck, bad things will probably happen.

    Perhaps it is indeed better, then, to make up the volume with unadulterated hot water.

    The proof will be in the taste, of course.

  21. #21
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    10,496
    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Was quite some time ago TG, let me know what you reckon, I would value your opinion.
    Sorry, haven't gotten around to this yet.
    It will have to wait a bit longer as I'm going away this weekend but I do have a couple of freshly roasted beans (last night) I can crack open and use when I get back.

  22. #22
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1

    Long black

    Hey all.

    I've been lurking for a while and found some really great info, but this is my first post.
    I work in a small coffee bar in sweden using a marzocco linea fb70 and using a fair trade blend from Ethiopia/Indonesia.

    Yelta- I have been testing out your method for the long black and was surprised tbh. But I still couldn't get a taste as balanced as with a double shot and hot water. It still tasted a bit bitter from the over extraction.

    I want to persevere though because I like black coffee but prefer a good filter or press to a long black and would like a better method to serve at the cafe.

    Any other tips you have for balancing against the extra bitterness?

    Thanks!

  23. #23
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    6,825
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevemilstenen View Post
    Hey all.

    I've been lurking for a while and found some really great info, but this is my first post.
    I work in a small coffee bar in sweden using a marzocco linea fb70 and using a fair trade blend from Ethiopia/Indonesia.

    Yelta- I have been testing out your method for the long black and was surprised tbh. But I still couldn't get a taste as balanced as with a double shot and hot water. It still tasted a bit bitter from the over extraction.

    I want to persevere though because I like black coffee but prefer a good filter or press to a long black and would like a better method to serve at the cafe.

    Any other tips you have for balancing against the extra bitterness?

    Thanks!
    Welcome to Coffee Snobs Steve.

    I mention 160 ml in 30 seconds, this was only a guess, have since measured it and turns out to be more like 100 to 120 ml in 30 seconds, perhaps this will account for some of the bitterness your experiencing.

  24. #24
    Senior Member WiredArabica's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Christchurch, NZ
    Posts
    175
    Yelta, after reading your post and thinking about it for a few days I did actually try this last week just to see. Opened up the grind on the SJ ~4 notches, pulled around 120ml in 30 secs.
    I'll admit, I was rather surprised. Quite a different flavour profile (it was a Brazil Capim Branco Specialty btw), and not bitter (which makes sense, effectively the grind size is matched to the extraction time & volume).

    Although it was actually quite nice, I've still a preference for the more standard method - but it's another trick for the toolbox and you just never know when it might come in handy...

  25. #25
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    6,825
    Interesting feedback people, all my ego needs now is for someone to come out and say (tried your method and prefer it) I suspect that ain't going to happen any time soon.

    Just trying to spread the word about what I reckon is well kept secret.

  26. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    558

    Long black

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Interesting feedback people, all my ego needs now is for someone to come out and say (tried your method and prefer it) I suspect that ain't going to happen any time soon.

    Just trying to spread the word about what I reckon is well kept secret.
    Isn't it a caffe crema? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffè_crema



Similar Threads

  1. Long Black?
    By stevenkylie in forum General Coffee Related...
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 19th July 2007, 03:46 PM
  2. [m]: Long Black?
    By Dimal in forum Milk Froth and Bubbles
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 17th July 2007, 12:01 AM
  3. What is a long black ?
    By Brendan in forum General Coffee Related...
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 12th July 2007, 06:48 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •