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Thread: Would you pay this much? I wouldn't! :)

  1. #1
    Member Aleanbean's Avatar
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    Would you pay this much? I wouldn't! :)

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    A local cafe near my house...
    and my reaction

    Velocoffee.jpg

    I think it's ridiculously over-priced, what're your thoughts? Worth it?

  2. #2
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    Not when I know that I can come here and get better for less...

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    TC
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    Possibly- These days it's way too light for my espresso machine, so it would have to be a manual method...

    Have to agree with Scoots. If it's browns, I'd be shopping here too!

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    Member Aleanbean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoota_gal View Post
    Not when I know that I can come here and get better for less...
    My point exactly

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    Senior Member Rocky's Avatar
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    It's like everything - there's a lot of variety out there at wildly different prices - one man's bargain is another's rip-off.
    It is probably about where you are in your product knowledge and how much research you have done on the alternatives.

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    Member Aleanbean's Avatar
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    pre-roasted stuff is too light for your machine? I'm a little confused!

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    Member Aleanbean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    It's like everything - there's a lot of variety out there at wildly different prices - one man's bargain is another's rip-off.
    It is probably about where you are in your product knowledge and how much research you have done on the alternatives.
    Wildly different prices is one thing that's for sure! I guess if I had a "you get what you pay for" mentality about coffee I'd probably buy it.

  8. #8
    TC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleanbean View Post
    pre-roasted stuff is too light for your machine? I'm a little confused!
    Yes- for my palate, under-roasted, tea-like and sour. It can work well as a pourover and using other manual methods. I prefer my espresso not to be mistaken for lemons.

  9. #9
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleanbean View Post
    A local cafe near my house...
    and my reaction

    Velocoffee.jpg

    I think it's ridiculously over-priced, what're your thoughts? Worth it?
    Not uncommon Aleanbean. It's more about what you want and how much you want it.
    As I type, I have 3 cards in front of me, from a Melbourne cafe roaster, for the following: CoE Rwanda ****** Lot3 @$25/250gms
    A Brazil ******Santo @18/250gms and an El Salvador El ***** @$16/250gms.


    I was given these coffees, would I pay for them? No way.
    They're all "lemons", all thin and all sour from the roast level, just as Chris describes, they muck up my grind adjustment and they simply don't work
    as espresso, they are for alternative brews, where they have interest, of sorts.

    If you look on Beanbay roasted coffee, the price varies from $35/kg (most of them) to $140/kg (one).
    You will find cheaper prices from some suppliers but a lot of the lower priced roasts will be commodity beans of a lower grade than what Andy has.

    However, it does bring up a point of interest for me personally, as I have a previous background in agriculture. Many city folk would also, hopefully,
    be aware of the 'milk price war' currently being conducted by supermarkets. Consumers might like cheap milk but someone has to pay and it's the farmer.

    If we, in the west, want to enjoy our luxuries, we have to be prepared to pay for them, this includes our coffee.
    Do you know of any wealthy African coffee farmers, or Central American or PNG farmers? Have you seen any of these people holidaying at Noosa?
    These questions are, of course rhetorical and not aimed at any one personally.

    There are over 100 million people involved in coffee production around the world, 90% of them are from third world countries,
    the remainder from emerging economies like India and Brazil. Australia and Hawaii are about the only first world producers I can think of.

    But the fact remains......... we want to pay less so we can indeed holiday at Noosa or even go overseas
    and marvel at the third world, primitive and underprivileged life our coffee farming friends have and how they have to exist
    in order to put beans in our grinders.
    I sincerely believe that coffee, for the most part, is underpriced at the farm gate and although the middleman
    syndrome is rife in this market and it should be overhauled, we should all be paying more as end users.
    And don't get me started on how the 'free on loan machine' deal that exists in our roasting industry makes fair prices for the coffee impossible...........

    Just as fair-trade is unfair and not much more than a western marketing device............ no, I digress. That's an argument for another day.

    So, is $50 kg too much? Yes and no! If it's amongst the best coffee you have ever had the privilege to drink and the farmer
    is getting a sustainable share of that price then it's all good. If though, the coffee is under roasted to suit an inner city trend
    and priced just to be fashionable and elite and the farmer is not getting a fair share and still only eeking out a living then yes, it's way over priced.
    matth3wh and Vinitasse like this.

  10. #10
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Of course, it's a much more complex argument than what I have written above but paying a fair price for beans means that the whole
    industry benefits, from the farmer to the consumer.

    However, it's food for thought.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Bosco_Lever's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=chokkidog

    You will find cheaper prices from some suppliers but a lot of the lower priced roasts will be commodity beans of a lower grade than what Andy has.

    [/QUOTE]

    I do not want to start a bun fight as to how good or not the coffee is from beanbay. The above comment may be true most of the time, but there are suppliers who do use beans equal to or better than what Andy offers. Some of them even sell their product cheaper. However..... taste is everything. And everyone is individual. I like to try a variety of beans, roasted by different people, as the result is always different. Value for money is hard to define.
    If you drink espresso, the beans need to be roasted adequately. There is a trend where coffee is lightly roasted for espresso and sold in miniscule volumes {ristretto}. This drink is heralded as having all sorts of fruit notes. I disagree with their analysis as most of the time the drink is way too sour.
    To the coffee community who enjoy lightly roasted coffee as pourover, siphon, plunger, etc this type of coffee is perfect, and exhibits wonderful flavours.
    Not all coffee is suitable for espresso, and just because it has a high price tag, does not mean it is best served this way. Sometimes, beans for espresso can be sourced cheaply. This has nothing to do with their quality. Some coffees with high price tags, are not suitable for espresso.

    The beans for sale may well be worth every cent to some. If you factor in that no postage has to be paid, the beans are reasonably priced if you can pick them up while walking.

    There are too many variables in coffee, discovering what appeals to you is part of the fun. Enjoy the journey.

    Before buying the beans, try them first. Ask for a sample, or buy a coffee and see if it rocks your world.
    Fresh_Coffee and matth3wh like this.

  12. #12
    Member Aleanbean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    Not uncommon Aleanbean. It's more about what you want and how much you want it.
    As I type, I have 3 cards in front of me, from a Melbourne cafe roaster, for the following: CoE Rwanda ****** Lot3 @$25/250gms
    A Brazil ******Santo @18/250gms and an El Salvador El ***** @$16/250gms.


    I was given these coffees, would I pay for them? No way.
    They're all "lemons", all thin and all sour from the roast level, just as Chris describes, they muck up my grind adjustment and they simply don't work
    as espresso, they are for alternative brews, where they have interest, of sorts.

    If you look on Beanbay roasted coffee, the price varies from $35/kg (most of them) to $140/kg (one).
    You will find cheaper prices from some suppliers but a lot of the lower priced roasts will be commodity beans of a lower grade than what Andy has.

    However, it does bring up a point of interest for me personally, as I have a previous background in agriculture. Many city folk would also, hopefully,
    be aware of the 'milk price war' currently being conducted by supermarkets. Consumers might like cheap milk but someone has to pay and it's the farmer.

    If we, in the west, want to enjoy our luxuries, we have to be prepared to pay for them, this includes our coffee.
    Do you know of any wealthy African coffee farmers, or Central American or PNG farmers? Have you seen any of these people holidaying at Noosa?
    These questions are, of course rhetorical and not aimed at any one personally.

    There are over 100 million people involved in coffee production around the world, 90% of them are from third world countries,
    the remainder from emerging economies like India and Brazil. Australia and Hawaii are about the only first world producers I can think of.

    But the fact remains......... we want to pay less so we can indeed holiday at Noosa or even go overseas
    and marvel at the third world, primitive and underprivileged life our coffee farming friends have and how they have to exist
    in order to put beans in our grinders.
    I sincerely believe that coffee, for the most part, is underpriced at the farm gate and although the middleman
    syndrome is rife in this market and it should be overhauled, we should all be paying more as end users.
    And don't get me started on how the 'free on loan machine' deal that exists in our roasting industry makes fair prices for the coffee impossible...........

    Just as fair-trade is unfair and not much more than a western marketing device............ no, I digress. That's an argument for another day.

    So, is $50 kg too much? Yes and no! If it's amongst the best coffee you have ever had the privilege to drink and the farmer
    is getting a sustainable share of that price then it's all good. If though, the coffee is under roasted to suit an inner city trend
    and priced just to be fashionable and elite and the farmer is not getting a fair share and still only eeking out a living then yes, it's way over priced.
    Wow, I've thought all of this before but have never been bothered to type it out

    You're right about the milk war, I personally try to stick with the little guys who have a much better product anyway.

    I'm new to the roasting thing and the concept of light roasts mucking up grinders is new too - are you saying that espresso should only bee a dark roast?

    Unfortunately a lot of people around the world would make more money growing poppies than coffee...

    Thanks for your insight!

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    Add to this, that the selling price doesnt have to have anything to do with what anyone may think is the cost of the raw material. There is a conversion factor that includes all the ON COSTS of running the business, plus a fair profit (to which everyone is entitled). And on small runs of "special" products, the cost overall to bring it to the clients cant help but be higher and ergo, the result will be a higher retail price. In fact the cost of bringing small run special items to the clients will vary depending on the individual business that is doing the "conversion". So, its not necessarily as simple as it may seem at first.

    Quick and dirty example. A roasting business may do all its "regular" roasting on say...a 30 kilo batch roaster, with multiple batch laods run through once the equipment is ignited. But to offer "specials", the business may be running a 5 kilo roaster that is only used for the special runs. There is the capital cost of the (extra) equipment, the extra running costs AND, while running the 30 kilo roaster the cost of the roasting operator is much much lower per hour per kilo, than to have the operator spend a few hours a week running off much smaller batches. ie the cost per hour per kilo for the opertator is very high. How does anyone cost out the hidden cost of running small batches out for clients? Factor in, that these specials dont really contribute much to a businesses overall profit (due to very small turnover compared to the much higher turnover "bread and butter" blends and coffees that a roaster or business actually trades on).

    That doesnt mean I agree (or disagree) with paying what someone else thinks is a high price for something, and I cant see there is a definitive answer to *what IS a "fair" price"*, which is my interpretation of the discussion topic here. There are plenty of examples that what suits one client wont suit another, and it takes all kinds, to make the world go round.

    PS to Aleanbean. wrt your comment about "light roasts mucking up grinders". Afraid that is not what was meant in the above discussion. I am happy to advise that light roasts dont muck up grinders....what was meant is that light roasts simply dont suit traditional style espresso. You can run light roasts through the grinder and make espresso, but they just wont taste right, generally speaking they result in sourness and or very high acidity in the espresso. Its just not the right flavour profile for traditional style espresso, and light roasts are better suited to other brewing methods.

    Hope that helps.

  14. #14
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Hey Bosco and Attilio,

    Thanks for contributing to the discussion! It's not about whether anyone's roast is better quality or value than someone else's.
    I agree that these parameters, expanded by Bosco, are way too relative to make hard and fast 'rules' and like I mentioned
    in my follow up post, the issue is way more complex than the slice I put up for discussion. I also welcome the broadening of the discussion,
    my bent is the farmer and what ends up in their pocket and to make the whole process, from farm to cup, enjoyable and profitable for all the stages
    of production involved. No price,at the higher end of the scale, is a 'fair price', if the farmer is doing a good job
    but isn't sharing in the dividend.

    My comment about commodity quality beans relates to the fact that the vast majority of beans traded around the globe are
    in multiple container size lots and are far removed from the much smaller specialty market that most of us operate in.
    Comparing them to Beanbay is just a point of reference. I spend much time on quality control of my own product and
    coupled with being out in the bush a bit, I don't get to see the broader retail market as much as what I would like or should.
    This does affect my perspective somewhat.

    Attilio, it was me who first said that lighter roasts muck up my grinder, not the grinder itself but the adjustment thereof.
    I've found it easier to have a separate grinder, (a Skelton) for light roasts, for cupping or press, rather than changing the
    grind setting on my espresso grinder backwards and forwards with the inevitable 'sinking' of some coffee, (some of it pretty exxy too!).

    I enjoy some light roasts and currently have two beans in my artillery that are perfect for light roasts and less than perfect for
    espresso, so horses for courses, however paying up to $100/kg for beans that cup really well but don't necessarily translate into
    coffee drinking applications says something about what Attilio alluded to in his post.
    If we have to pay $100/kg for coffee that was landed for $20/kg then the consumer is paying not the value of the coffee
    but for the business model of the roaster/retailer and although, to some, this might be an acceptable value, to me it has a fundamental flaw
    which relates not just to business models or coffee quality but to morals and ethics, when put in terms of the benefit to the grower.

    Call me a pinky lefty, a sentimentalist, or just mental, that's ok!! Just don't call me a communist!! 8-D.........please.

    Aleanbean, I hope you don't mind that I've used your original post to put forward some of my thoughts.
    Your question about darker roasts being more suited to espresso is a good question, once again there are no hard and fast rules.
    It is the skill of the roaster to find the 'sweet spot' for a given bean or pre roast blend of beans. If the roast is too light the
    high pressure extraction of an espresso shot will reveal thin and sour and sometimes quite acidic coffee, likewise if the roast is too dark
    the sugars will be burnt and the coffee will show a dark caramel bitterness with little acidity and no 'life'.
    Hitting the mark is about achieving the balance between acidity and sugar development and achieving the body character
    potential of the beans being used.
    The perfect espresso roast, for any one, suitable bean, will generally fall between a medium and dark roast.

    So much in life is a question of balance!!

    And coffee roasted to at least first crack ( or even less - I've never tried) won't harm your grinder!

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    Would you pay this much? I wouldn't! :)

    Interesting how the same question can be answered from so many different perspectives...

    Assuming i tried it and liked the taste...
    Whether I would pay this amount or not would depend more on whether I felt it was good value or not?
    That would depend on how the product was marketed or not to me. On face value of what has been seen here there appears to be little or no justification of the price?
    Price is very VERY elastic... But in order to break a perceived price ceiling- the reason 'why' needs to be carefully explained or justified...

    Perfume is one of those really bizarre products where it has been proved time and time again that raising the price can result in increased sales volume...

    I'm a tradesman- in a specialist niche. I routinely have clients tell me my prices are two-Three times what 'others' have quoted... I still have a 40% strike rate on cold calls from advertising... I very clearly understand my client and I'm very good at explaining to my clients why they should use me... However, I only appeal to people who are prepared to pay a little more for a better job. I NEVER get the 'price only' buyers...
    And frankly I don't want them... PIA!

    Another example: is $50,000 to much to pay for a car?
    1) Well the Great Wall people make it their marketing theme that the answer is a resounding "Yes"
    2) A Toyota Hilux Dual cab 4wd buyer would think he got an absolute bargain!
    3) A Mercedes SL 500 seller might be concerned you can barely afford the deposit...

    So what can one say to answer the question but, "Maybe, Depends!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fresh_Coffee View Post
    PS to Aleanbean. wrt your comment about "light roasts mucking up grinders". Afraid that is not what was meant in the above discussion. I am happy to advise that light roasts dont muck up grinders....what was meant is that light roasts simply dont suit traditional style espresso. You can run light roasts through the grinder and make espresso, but they just wont taste right, generally speaking they result in sourness and or very high acidity in the espresso. Its just not the right flavour profile for traditional style espresso, and light roasts are better suited to other brewing methods.

    Hope that helps.
    Thanks for that!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    Aleanbean, I hope you don't mind that I've used your original post to put forward some of my thoughts.
    Your question about darker roasts being more suited to espresso is a good question, once again there are no hard and fast rules.
    It is the skill of the roaster to find the 'sweet spot' for a given bean or pre roast blend of beans. If the roast is too light the
    high pressure extraction of an espresso shot will reveal thin and sour and sometimes quite acidic coffee, likewise if the roast is too dark
    the sugars will be burnt and the coffee will show a dark caramel bitterness with little acidity and no 'life'.
    Hitting the mark is about achieving the balance between acidity and sugar development and achieving the body character
    potential of the beans being used.

    The perfect espresso roast, for any one, suitable bean, will generally fall between a medium and dark roast.
    Absolutely not a problem haha

    I am also curious about mark up.

    For example, in this specific case of $50/kg - how do I know that the coffee is "worth" that much? Of course it's partially subjective and also due to growing area, rarity and over all costs etc.

    I will add that I wouldn't mind trying this:

    CoffeeSnobs - BeanBay

    I guess my point is not necessarily about the money but more about the value

    Sure, you may get what you pay for but that doesn't mean you couldn't roast $10/kg beans and sell them for $100! Someone will always be curious/ not knowledgeable enough to spend the cash.

  18. #18
    Member Aleanbean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ol_Grumpy View Post
    Interesting how the same question can be answered from so many different perspectives...

    Assuming i tried it and liked the taste...
    Whether I would pay this amount or not would depend more on whether I felt it was good value or not?
    That would depend on how the product was marketed or not to me. On face value of what has been seen here there appears to be little or no justification of the price?
    Price is very VERY elastic... But in order to break a perceived price ceiling- the reason 'why' needs to be carefully explained or justified...

    Perfume is one of those really bizarre products where it has been proved time and time again that raising the price can result in increased sales volume...

    I'm a tradesman- in a specialist niche. I routinely have clients tell me my prices are two-Three times what 'others' have quoted... I still have a 40% strike rate on cold calls from advertising... I very clearly understand my client and I'm very good at explaining to my clients why they should use me... However, I only appeal to people who are prepared to pay a little more for a better job. I NEVER get the 'price only' buyers...
    And frankly I don't want them... PIA!

    Another example: is $50,000 to much to pay for a car?
    1) Well the Great Wall people make it their marketing theme that the answer is a resounding "Yes"
    2) A Toyota Hilux Dual cab 4wd buyer would think he got an absolute bargain!
    3) A Mercedes SL 500 seller might be concerned you can barely afford the deposit...

    So what can one say to answer the question but, "Maybe, Depends!"
    I was about to say, spoken like a University economics lecturer, and then I read on.

    You make a good point though, value is everything but at the end of the day it is only perception.

  19. #19
    TC
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    I really like salmon and I can buy them whole for $11/kg....

    Sometimes I pay closer to $100/kg for some really special smoked salmon produced by a wizard I know... We start with identical ingredients, but his product is way better than anything I have ever produced.

    Like coffee, there's a whole heap of intangibles. A great roastmaster can work wonders with average beans and I have sampled exceptional beans ruined- both by my own hand and those of others.

    Ultimately it all comes down to personal perceptions of value for money!

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    Would you pay this much? I wouldn't! :)

    And the challenge in business is to build the perceived value of a product such that the buyer considers their purchase 'good value for money'

    Remember we all *buy* emotionally and then justify *logically*

    Even doubly hard if you are selling a commodity like coffee...

    Imagine trying to sell milk at three times the price Woolies and Coles sell milk!!!
    Well the A2 Milk people are doing it. Sure, they're not setting the world on fire- but they do have a profitable little Niche and IMHO- that's the aim of the game....

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    Would you pay this much? I wouldn't! :)

    Ha Ha,

    Just watching "Great South East" on the box and they went to a cafe selling cups of the worlds rarest coffee for $50- per cup...

    What's that $50- per 14grams?

    See- makes your beans look like a steal!

    And they haven't been shit out by some monkey!
    David8, habahabanero and Aleanbean like this.

  22. #22
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    A great roastmaster can work wonders with average beans and I have sampled exceptional beans ruined- both by my own hand and those of others.

    Ultimately it all comes down to personal perceptions of value for money!
    Reminds me of a saying in the grape growing industry that goes like this:
    " A good winemaker can turn average fruit into drinkable wine, any winemaker can turn the best fruit into *&%$ ".

    The market place will always determine the value of a product.
    The market value and actual value are two different things. The market value is determined by the consumer, as
    the product is only worth what people will pay for it and as we know, people will use all sorts of reasons and justifications for
    agreeing, or not agreeing, to pay 'the price'.

    Similar to Ol_grumpy's perfume scenario, I have always found it fascinating that when Japanese potters,
    especially those of 'Living Treasure' status, found certain works hard to sell, they put the price up. This generally solved their problem!

    Despite the points made in above posts about relative value of any given roast, I still wish that coffee growers, in general, had a
    better return for the work they do.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ol_Grumpy View Post
    And they haven't been shit out by some monkey!
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA ahhhh god, that's quality.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post

    Despite the points made in above posts about relative value of any given roast, I still wish that coffee growers, in general, had a
    better return for the work they do.
    And that is why a Lambo with the plate 'DiBella" floored it beside me in Brisbane a few months ago...

    LOOK, IT'S AMAZING!

    Di Bella Lambo (1).jpg

    I digress haha

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    Hmmmm.........no digression at all.
    Ever seen one of those parked up along the Rift Valley in Ethiopia, or on the slopes of Kilimanjaro?
    With the name of a local coffee farmer on the plates?

    Don't take me literally here but you get the drift.............
    Not to take any due credit away from Philliip Di Bella, he's achieved a lot - AND sponsors the amazing CS.com.au!

    The answer to your fine question sir is I have not personally seen it, but probably no haha

  26. #26
    TC
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    Back in the early 90's, I had a mate who owned a cleaning business. Amongst his many clients were the the railways and some other very big businesses...

    As a younger bloke he lusted after a Honda NSX. He worked hard and eventually bought one... Only a few select friends knew he had one. He drove his Commodore to work.

    He never ever drove the Honda to work- lest his clients and staff think they were being taken advantage of. His thoughts were "don't rub their noses in it".

    I haven't seen him for a while and I bet he probably has a Ferrari or Lambo in the garage now and I'd bet it's still not common knowledge.

    In my opinion, he was wise well beyond his years. I respect a little dignity and some humility.
    Last edited by TC; 29th December 2012 at 08:36 PM. Reason: crappy grammar
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  27. #27
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    The post I deleted was made with an error of judgement and was in poor taste.
    I offer an unreserved apology.

  28. #28
    Member Aleanbean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    Back in the early 90's, I had a mate who owned a cleaning business. Amongst his many clients were the the railways and some other very big businesses...

    As a younger bloke he lusted after a Honda NSX. He worked hard and eventually bought one... Only a few select friends knew he had one. He drove his Commodore to work.

    He never ever drove it to work- lest his clients and staff thing they were being taken advantage of. His thoughts were "don't rub their noses in it".

    I haven't seen him for a while and I bet he probably has a Ferrari or Lambo in the garage now and I'd bet it's still not common knowledge.

    In my opinion, he was wise well beyond his years. I respect a little dignity and some humility.
    That's a good life lesson for us all I think.

  29. #29
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    I just have read you guys posts. It is really up to personal preference,especially when it comes to coffee beans. Who wants to start a day with bad coffee, the answer is no one. Therefore, do not waste time with price of coffee beans. Let's define making good coffee to the utilize benefits out of it.

  30. #30
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    You're paying Perth retail prices essentially (5-Senses being a Perth company) - one of the most expensive places on the planet...

    Typical 250g bag cost for 5-senses in Perth is $12-15 ea.

    5-senses sell 1kg bags in their online store for $43-$47 ea, so it's reasonable if you factor shipping West-East.

    My local coffee shop/roastery sell V60 pour over coffees for >$12 per cup (I forget how much exactly, might have been $16).

    People will obviously pay for it.

    While I prefer to roast my own now (even if it's a little less consistent), and every man and his dog is selling 5-senses beans (for better or worse), I'd say 5-Senses had a big part in triggering the sudden change in coffee culture here (much like Little Creatures Brewing did for beer).

  31. #31
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    Would you pay this much? I wouldn't! :)

    You may well be right- Perth pricing can be inflated over East Coast for many items.
    However, I did notice recently that (I'm in Brisbane) at a local Zaraffa's the retail prices were pretty much identical to those you quoted. The lady in the queue in front of me bought a 250 gm bag and was charged $15 - $16? I remember doing the mental arithmetic and thinking $64- per kilo? - not bad if you can get it!... Which is what I politely said to the junior Barista who served me. She kindly let me know that Kilo bags were discounted to only (around) $50- per kilo....
    Oh that's much better! I said with a wry smile, but I'll pass today, thank you!
    I also remembered thinking, "suckers!"

    I'd forgotten all about this until you mentioned it, but in the context of this thread it's probably relevant
    oh!

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrJack View Post
    You're paying Perth retail prices essentially (5-Senses being a Perth company) - one of the most expensive places on the planet...

    Typical 250g bag cost for 5-senses in Perth is $12-15 ea.

    5-senses sell 1kg bags in their online store for $43-$47 ea, so it's reasonable if you factor shipping West-East.

    My local coffee shop/roastery sell V60 pour over coffees for >$12 per cup (I forget how much exactly, might have been $16).

    People will obviously pay for it.

    While I prefer to roast my own now (even if it's a little less consistent), and every man and his dog is selling 5-senses beans (for better or worse), I'd say 5-Senses had a big part in triggering the sudden change in coffee culture here (much like Little Creatures Brewing did for beer).
    Thanks for the info, ahh Little Creatures - I'm definitely a fan.

  33. #33
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    I used to look at prices like this and think it ridiculous as I could roast my own beans and get a better or similar product for a fraction of the price.

    However now that I've moved into a small apartment and couldn't bring my roasting gear with me I'm forced to buy beans at full price and if I'm only going through approx. 250gm/week then $12.50 for a weeks worth of coffee doesn't seem that bad.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by rollo87 View Post
    I used to look at prices like this and think it ridiculous as I could roast my own beans and get a better or similar product for a fraction of the price.

    However now that I've moved into a small apartment and couldn't bring my roasting gear with me I'm forced to buy beans at full price and if I'm only going through approx. 250gm/week then $12.50 for a weeks worth of coffee doesn't seem that bad.
    I'm from Perth, so am pretty familiar with some of the pricing of that coffee.

    I'm not going to get into the discussion of fair pricing and direct trade stuff etc because I don't know enough about it. But as someone who drinks a bit of coffee at home (both espresso and other brew methods), AND don't roast my own beans, I buy roasted beans from a variety of sources. To pay $12.50/250g for a quality bean will do me about 1-2 weeks and used to be quite normal. Compared to the cost of buying a coffee in a cafe here in Perth (that has often been tortured to within an inch of its life) this is a very cheap way to have good coffee. But there are definitely cheaper ways to get great roasted coffee, even around Perth, or by ordering online and paying postage.

  35. #35
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    Value - like beauty - is so often in the mind and/or eye of the purchaser!

    To some people spending a lot of money bestows a bragging-right that - to them - has far greater value than the product. So to be able to say to your dinner guests "This coffee costs 3 times what you drink" is the 'value'. The actual taste is not necessarily relevant!

    Interestingly, if you had 2 coffees for sale at, say, $10 & $20 you'd probably sell more of the $10 than the $20. But if you then introduced a $30 option you would sell a lot more of the $20! That's why BBQ shops have the $10k barby on display - they don't sell many, but they make the $2,000 barby seem so much more reasonable!

  36. #36
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    Would you pay this much? I wouldn't! :)

    Yes, and every now and then they sell a $10,000 BBQ,
    And that's a very nice day indeed!

    Disneyland is the absolute master at extracting the maximum dollars from your wallet... And making you feel good about doing it....

  37. #37
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Back on topic, there's an online roaster based in Melb, been in business for many years,well respected and very knowledgeable, his prices start at $48 and go up to $52 per kg, plus postage.

    So $50kg imho is around the retail mark nowadays, certainly makes Andy's offerings at around the $35kg mark look very reasonable.

  38. #38
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    $40/kg sounds like a lot when you're used to green beans costing $10 to $15 a kg, but it's pretty much right for retail roasted.
    I used to pay about $10/250g all the time before I started home roasting.

  39. #39
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    Would you pay this much? I wouldn't! :)

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    This thread seems a bit odd to me, because if you consider buying 1kg of brown on BeanBay the cost is pretty much the same ($45 inc cheapest delivery option).

    Until I started roasting, I used to buy from a local roaster over the counter: $50/kg. it's not unreasonable at all for fresh roasted, high quality beans.
    Yelta likes this.



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