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Thread: Help- Very Reduced Crema

  1. #1
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    Help- Very Reduced Crema

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hey

    I am very limited by machine an EM 2800...

    Anyway I use a baratza preciso grinder, and finally got some new single walled baskets today.

    Anyway I use beans roasted within the week from a local store and grind them on the spot with the preciso.

    Up until now I have been using pressurized baskets ( getting very good crema...but have made the switch.

    Anyway... With 40 mls in 20 seconds through a double basket tamped with stainless steel tamp at pressure of 15kgs I am getting a very thin crema now I have switched to non pressurised baskets?......... In fact the there is a 6-7 seconds delay before first stream which is okay... but the stream is initially BLACK and then at about 12 seconds there started to be some crema ( but very little)??? In the pressurized basket after the initial delay first stream was thick and full of crema.

    1. What am I doing wrong? How should I adjust my technique to non-pressurised baskets?


    2.Also whats the advantage of having a non-pressurised basket anyway? I must admit I am tempted to go back to the old ones.... Why are they so supperior. I understand the double walled make fake crema with poor coffee, but whats the harm with good fresh beans?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Sounds like stale beans to me, are you sure they are as fresh as the store would have you believe?

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    Help- Very Reduced Crema

    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Sounds like stale beans to me, are you sure they are as fresh as the store would have you believe?
    +1 for stale beans!

    If you're sure they're fresh, I'd be looking for contamination: a particularly dirty grinder or dirty machine can also kill crema. When was the last time you pulled the EM2800 apart and gave it a good scrub in cafetto (or similar)?

  4. #4
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Maybe you could try a finer grind with lighter tamp?
    Often pressurised baskets choke with a grind that most espresso machines work well with, so users go much coarser. Big chunky coffee in a non-pressurised basket, even tamped hard might give that result? Try grinding finer, then a lighter tamp (I'd be lucky to use 5kg :-).
    Always worth a shot (no pun intended!)
    Matt

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by fruity View Post
    +1 for stale beans!

    If you're sure they're fresh, I'd be looking for contamination: a particularly dirty grinder or dirty machine can also kill crema. When was the last time you pulled the EM2800 apart and gave it a good scrub in cafetto (or similar)?
    +2 Stale beans

    If the beans are fresh (say 2 weeks or less from roast date) then you shoudn't have any trouble getting good crema.

  6. #6
    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellofellow View Post
    Hey

    I am very limited by machine an EM 2800...

    Anyway I use a baratza preciso grinder, and finally got some new single walled baskets today.

    Anyway I use beans roasted within the week from a local store and grind them on the spot with the preciso.

    Up until now I have been using pressurized baskets ( getting very good crema...but have made the switch.

    Anyway... With 40 mls in 20 seconds through a double basket tamped with stainless steel tamp at pressure of 15kgs I am getting a very thin crema now I have switched to non pressurised baskets?......... In fact the there is a 6-7 seconds delay before first stream which is okay... but the stream is initially BLACK and then at about 12 seconds there started to be some crema ( but very little)??? In the pressurized basket after the initial delay first stream was thick and full of crema.

    1. What am I doing wrong? How should I adjust my technique to non-pressurised baskets?


    2.Also whats the advantage of having a non-pressurised basket anyway? I must admit I am tempted to go back to the old ones.... Why are they so supperior. I understand the double walled make fake crema with poor coffee, but whats the harm with good fresh beans?
    When you say you grind them on the spot do you mean you grind them all and store or grind for each shot?
    How do you know it's 1 week old roast?
    Does it state "roast date"?
    My understanding of the double walled (pressurised) basket is that it allows for coarser grinds and stale beans to appear like good coffee however you can definitely see the difference between fake and real crema and taste it as well.
    From your description of the pour it almost sound like the "crema" you are referring to at the end is more like blonding than crema. Try grinding the beans finer to increase the pour time.
    Lastly, how are you storing your beans?

  7. #7
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    you dialed in your grinder?

    see these guys

    How To: Dialing in a Coffee Grinder - YouTube

    I was in the "use cheap beans to get close then the good ones" category.

  8. #8
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    hellofellow where are you?
    We may be able to point you to a trusted bean seller or possibly a kind CSer might pop around to diagnose your problem.

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    Hey thundergod I am in Toowoomba near Brisbane for the holidays, and in a week or so in Wollongong.

    Thanks for all the help guys. In answer to one of the questions I grind the beans within one minute before dosing .
    So it turned out the beans were around 4 weeks old after inquiry.

    I since have gone elsewhere and got some roasted YESTERDAY had a great chat to the barista...and chucked them in today. Anyway definitely a better result but still not as thick as the pressurized. If I course up the grind the coffee runs faster and I do improve the creama but then the shot itself is to fast. If i fine up the grind and slow the shot to the right speed it's almost like there is not enough pressure to create cream... I'm thinking this could be a limitation of the machine...at 90$ it must have a point?

    Anyway I think I'll post a picture tomorrow in a shot glass to show you all my attempt and maybe you can give me your opinion ..

    Ps the local barista said although roasted yesterday I should give them a chance to degass and he said 18 days is the perfect amount of time has he has measured the co2 in his coffees. He admitted he used to be a 3 day old kinda guy but said he has learnt a lot and would always prefer de gassed for 18 days ....Opinions??

  10. #10
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellofellow View Post
    Hey thundergod I am in Toowoomba near Brisbane for the holidays, and in a week or so in Wollongong.

    Thanks for all the help guys. In answer to one of the questions I grind the beans within one minute before dosing .
    So it turned out the beans were around 4 weeks old after inquiry.

    I since have gone elsewhere and got some roasted YESTERDAY had a great chat to the barista...and chucked them in today. Anyway definitely a better result but still not as thick as the pressurized. If I course up the grind the coffee runs faster and I do improve the creama but then the shot itself is to fast. If i fine up the grind and slow the shot to the right speed it's almost like there is not enough pressure to create cream... I'm thinking this could be a limitation of the machine...at 90$ it must have a point?

    Anyway I think I'll post a picture tomorrow in a shot glass to show you all my attempt and maybe you can give me your opinion ..

    Ps the local barista said although roasted yesterday I should give them a chance to degass and he said 18 days is the perfect amount of time has he has measured the co2 in his coffees. He admitted he used to be a 3 day old kinda guy but said he has learnt a lot and would always prefer de gassed for 18 days ....Opinions??
    Four weeks is not exactly fresh.

    I agree to a point with your tame barista, 3 days is pretty early, however 18 days (over 3 weeks) is pretty late.

    As far as I'm concerned, those new to roasting owe it to themselves to try roasts from the moment the beans cool and daily from then on, form your own opinions, a roast you like at day 5 may not impress others until much later.

  11. #11
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    I think pictures would be good hellofellow, perhaps the crema is less compared to your double wall baskets but it still may be ok? After-all thickness of crema is not the defining factor in a good shot of espresso. How does it taste? The first black-ish stream of coffee is very good coffee, its the sweetest part of the shot so you should expect that. And its true, your machine may be limiting you a bit.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    ... 18 days (over 3 weeks) ...
    Really? I make it 2.5714 weeks. Is that less than 3? Maybe your beans don't age on weekends.

    Agree with your last sentence.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by Banjo.au View Post
    Really? I make it 2.5714 weeks. Is that less than 3? Maybe your beans don't age on weekends.

    Agree with your last sentence.
    Ha, your right, brain not engaged when I posted let me change that to almost 3 weeks.



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