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Thread: Noisy Kids in Cafe's.

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Noisy Kids in Cafe's.

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    The title says it all.

    Two flat whites and a bawling child, please

    Obviously some (not all) parents are simply unaware that their grubby screaming little brat is causing other customers discomfort/distress.

    I've been known to walk out of a cafe with an over supply of the noisy little devils.

    Macca's have the right idea, quarantine em.

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    Member danzx6r's Avatar
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    Having 2 children 16months and 4 I know what it's like, but we've been lucky. Maddie loves going to a cafe or Gafe as she tends to call it and get a hot chocolate. She's pretty well behaved and tends to be easily amused Hamish is to young to know better but generally timing works out that he gets a bottle so he's happy.

    I've seem parents let their kids run around carrying on like right little a holes and I really don't understand the parenting. We take crayons and paper to let her draw even when we go out to dinner and it always works out well but a lot of parents seem to think it is their down time and it is everyone else's turn to put up with their kids.

    Brunswick has an awesome cafe, the back area is under cover and has a large kids play area. We've been there a couple times and it was great but again you get 'A-Hole' parents who's kids don't play we'll with others and you have to either parent their children or take your child away which is BS.

    Dan

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    unattended children espresso puppy.jpg


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    Member danzx6r's Avatar
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    I couldnt listen the the entire crap the reporter was going on with...

    You take your child out.. You entertain the child if it is going to disturb others or just don't take the child out... end of story.

    Everyone can tolerate a couple minutes of crying esp if they can see your trying to rectify the situation and attempting to have a happy child.. But those pr1cks that just ignore their children and seem to think that there time out and screw everyone else need well a smack in the head and a wake up call.. Some people are so selfish and the flow on affect is that others get given a hard time for children when they shouldn't.

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danzx6r View Post
    I couldnt listen the the entire crap the reporter was going on with...

    You take your child out.. You entertain the child if it is going to disturb others or just don't take the child out... end of story.

    Everyone can tolerate a couple minutes of crying esp if they can see your trying to rectify the situation and attempting to have a happy child.. But those pr1cks that just ignore their children and seem to think that there time out and screw everyone else need well a smack in the head and a wake up call.. Some people are so selfish and the flow on affect is that others get given a hard time for children when they shouldn't.
    You tell em Dan thought it may just have been beein a grumpy old ba*tard.

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    Member danzx6r's Avatar
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    I am a grumpy ba*tard... I had a laugh Esp last night after I burnt my first roast of Brazil...

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danzx6r View Post
    I am a grumpy ba*tard... I had a laugh Esp last night after I burnt my first roast of Brazil...
    Ya gotta watch em Dan, kids and beans near the end of a roast.

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    Some parents seem to think it's OK to allow their children to be a menace to society, whether it's because they think their "precious little angels" need to express themselves or the fact that they themselves have no social conscience. Unfortunately for society bad behaviour in a café is the least of their crimes.

    I love taking my children to café's, they're not perfectly behaved every time, but they are well aware that it's a privilege and sitting in the car is a viable alternative. I do often get judgemental stares from spineless/New Agey/Montessori/Steiner types when I'm being strict with my children, of course, while their kids are spoiling it for everyone.

    Like any establishment café's reserve the right to restrict access - politely asking these parents to control their children will cause offence, and will lose the customer, but will ultimately win more customers.

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    Senior Member Rocky's Avatar
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    Unfortunately the quality of parenting has been deteriorating for decades right across the board.
    I am a member of a Liquor Accord and we find that when our members ban a patron from their premises, we get contacted by the parents of the offenders advocating like bush lawyers for their badly behaved offspring.
    When you listen to the parents you can see why the children have a problem.

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    Super Moderator scoota_gal's Avatar
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    That is just totally one thing I truly do not miss at all since leaving the bakery. I have to say that the over abundance of noisy, bratty, badly behaved kids did end up doing my head in. That and having to clean up after them.

    In all my 7 years of being behind the machine, I certainly saw some good and bad in kids and their parents.

    I still never understood the mentality of just letting them run amok whilst having a coffee and a chat though.

    I find my life a lot less stressful these days!
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    Junior Member greengarden's Avatar
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    Perhaps naughty children were the real reason insulated takeaway cups were invented...the inventor was sick of being interrupted at cafes by crying children. Parents can 'takeaway' their coffee & their noisy kids.

    Not all parents of young kids are like the couple in the article...maybe it's the sleep-deprivation...? It can make one a little short-tortured, sorry I meant, short-tempered.

    I've learnt to order in a takeaway cup for quick getaways if my kids get difficult. Why should everyone have to suffer?

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    Junior Member micktleyden's Avatar
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    Noisy Kids in Cafe's.

    Quote Originally Posted by greengarden View Post
    I've learnt to order in a takeaway cup for quick getaways if my kids get difficult. Why should everyone have to suffer?
    Me too. Ordering it in a glass is just tempting fate! Fortunately my 2 year old is normally pretty happy to sit at the table with us and have something to eat.

    In my childless life I couldn't stand kids really being anywhere near me, so I am always very aware that just because I know my kid is awesome it does not mean everyone else does and if he gets too over it I make a pretty quick exit.

    That said, I also find my tolerance level for people who look like they have had 2 hours sleep in the past week and are struggling with an unhappy kid has increased enormously. There is often a lot going on at home that is not visible to the rest of us and sometimes people in that situation are not thoughtless @&$!s they are just at their wits end and need a break. So these days I try to give them the benefit of the doubt.
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    Well, my parents' generation taught kids to be on absolutely best behaviour when in public places. Running around yelling like pups on steroids was simply not allowed not tolerated.

    What has happened since? Not just in cafes, but in medical waiting rooms and shops you see the most excrutiating brat behaviour---and the parents do absolutely nothing to reproach their kids. As if it's ok to scream and screach and run around. As if that is not annoying.

    Are such parents so desensitised that they don't care? I really am at a loss to comprehend how they just sit there and allow it to happen.

    Very soon, I fear, I will not be able to grit my teeth and bear it. I will confront the parents both barrels blazing.

    If they can't teach their kinds to behave, perhaps it is up to me to teach the parents

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    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Thankfully, where I am at the moment has more dogs (including some large ones) than brats in cafes...and the dogs are well behaved, and keep the floor clean.

    I don't so much mind the odd kid having a sook / getting a touch impatient (i.e. being a kid) if it is clear that the parents are trying to help the situation, rather than viewing the outpouring as a step on the path the child's spiritual enlightenment. But there appears to be an increasing proportion of 'I'll be right jack' people feeling the need to appear in public these days (but I wouldn't be surprised if all generations felt this way).

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    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    My job **is not** to spend my relaxation time trying to teach unresponsive parents how to parent their kids.

    I **is** the job of the the café/restaurant to provide the experience that their customers will pay for. Just leave and let the staff know why.

    Greg

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    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregWormald View Post

    I **is** the job of the the café/restaurant
    Sounds like the kids have subliminally got you talkin' Jamaican tho' man.

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    When I grew up, children were “to be seen but not heard”.

    My parents didn’t belt me, but they didn’t feed me on junk food. Plenty of un processed and additive free fruit, vegetables, bread, eggs and meat. I drank milk and water from the tap, not a bottle and no Coke.

    I was allowed to play in the dirt, climb rocks and trees in the native bush behind our house among spiders, lizards and snakes. I had few injuries, no broken bones and no food allergies.

    I had little pocket money so I couldn’t afford to buy junk.

    I think that a poor diet can lead to hyperactivity and misbehaviour in children. The parents largely cause it and ignore it.

    Barry
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    pwp
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    Get over it. Include the kids as often as practical. They're fellow human beings. They share the planet with you. Take the long view. Take the Italian view. Enjoy the view.

    Show them a good time in cafe's as kids, and they'll be more likely to stay out of bars later on being loud and anti-social.

    -PW

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    Quote Originally Posted by pwp View Post
    Get over it. Include the kids as often as practical. They're fellow human beings. They share the planet with you. Take the long view. Take the Italian view. Enjoy the view.

    Show them a good time in cafe's as kids, and they'll be more likely to stay out of bars later on being loud and anti-social.

    -PW
    We also share this planet with snakes, vermin and various toxins and don't see any reason why I should welcome them into a cafe, where I would prefer to sit and relax and enjoy a good cuppa and a few moments of peace and quiet. Also, I really can't say I understand the logic of how letting one's children run wild through a cafe will teach them the discipline and restraint needed to resist the temptations of bars and antisocial behaviour later on in life. I would expect the long term results to be quite the opposite.
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    Senior Member mwcalder05's Avatar
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    Quite an interesting topic to listen/read people's opinions! So time to put my 2.5 cents worth in :P

    I can tolerate and be content with kids under the age that they can control themselves having a bit of a scream (i.e. babies and what-not). But when it comes to toddlers running around the store with hot coffee being delivered, it is just plain dangerous! There have been many a time when a toddler has ran around my legs and a cup fell over and thank goodness it was an empty. Luckily my workplace has a kids corner where there is a blackboard for some to keep themselves occupied so this does help a bit..

    To put it plain and simple, parents need to control their kids.

    Mike

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snafu View Post
    We also share this planet with snakes, vermin and various toxins and don't see any reason why I should welcome them into a cafe, where I would prefer to sit and relax and enjoy a good cuppa and a few moments of peace and quiet. Also, I really can't say I understand the logic of how letting one's children run wild through a cafe will teach them the discipline and restraint needed to resist the temptations of bars and antisocial behaviour later on in life. I would expect the long term results to be quite the opposite.
    Not sure about placing kids in the same category as snakes, vermin and toxins however I do agree with the rest of your post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Not sure about placing kids in the same category as snakes, vermin and toxins however I do agree with the rest of your post.
    Yes... I would have to agree with you (most of the time) and was merely using a bit of artistic license to illustrate the fact that not everything, or everyone, we happen to share this planet with necessarily deserves to be sitting next to me in a cafe.

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    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Let's keep the conversation polite and respectful of each other. The bat is buried in the closet and I really don't feel like digging it out.


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    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pwp View Post
    Get over it. Include the kids as often as practical. They're fellow human beings. They share the planet with you. Take the long view. Take the Italian view. Enjoy the view.

    Show them a good time in cafe's as kids, and they'll be more likely to stay out of bars later on being loud and anti-social.

    -PW
    Don't agree. If boundaries aren't laid down and adhered to early then these "little fellow human beings" turn into teenagers and young adults who are only concerned with their own pleasure and happiness and couldn't give a rat's bottom about anyone else or their right to enjoy their peace without having a loud , obnoxious narcissist invade not only their space but also their life. It all starts with setting the right example when they're young. Just look at the Gen Y example, the mollycoddled "no spank" generation who basically worship themselves and have little respect for anyone else and they're loud!

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    Senior Member Bernsbrew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post
    Don't agree. If boundaries aren't laid down and adhered to early then these "little fellow human beings" turn into teenagers and young adults who are only concerned with their own pleasure and happiness and couldn't give a rat's bottom about anyone else or their right to enjoy their peace without having a loud , obnoxious narcissist invade not only their space but also their life. It all starts with setting the right example when they're young. Just look at the Gen Y example, the mollycoddled "no spank" generation who basically worship themselves and have little respect for anyone else and they're loud!
    Don't agree. If boundaries were laid down and adhered to the "little fellow human beings" born some 50-60 years ago would not be the selfish adults they are now concerned only with their own pleasure and happiness, who couldn't give a rat's bottom about anyone else or their right to enjoy their peace without having a loud , obnoxious narcissist invade not only their space but also their life. Just look at the boomers for example, the mollycoddled "no spank" generation who basically worship themselves and have little respect for anyone else and they're loud!

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    pwp
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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pwp
    Get over it. Include the kids as often as practical. They're fellow human beings. They share the planet with you. Take the long view. Take the Italian view. Enjoy the view.
    Show them a good time in cafe's as kids, and they'll be more likely to stay out of bars later on being loud and anti-social.

    -PW
    Don't agree. If boundaries aren't laid down and adhered to early then these "little fellow human beings" turn into teenagers and young adults who are only concerned with their own pleasure and happiness and couldn't give a rat's bottom about anyone else or their right to enjoy their peace without having a loud , obnoxious narcissist invade not only their space but also their life. It all starts with setting the right example when they're young. Just look at the Gen Y example, the mollycoddled "no spank" generation who basically worship themselves and have little respect for anyone else and they're loud!
    I didn't really mean to throw a cat among the pigeons here. Perhaps I should have been a little more expansive. While I will never condone overbaked disruptive behaviour from anyone, children included, inclusion and tolerance are concepts that are disappearing at an alarming rate across the board, not just at your favourite cafe. The warm environment of a favourite cafe instills the better aspects of our society into anyone that's there...that's why we keep going back. So yes, encourage and bring the kids but with the barriers and boundaries of common courtesy and respect that make life worth living. Showing kids a good time at your local cafe does not infer license to run riot, quite the opposite. It should bring with it patiently delivered instruction and example on how to not just enjoy but contribute to the delicious atmosphere of a great cafe.

    -PW
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    Senior Member Bernsbrew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pwp View Post
    I didn't really mean to throw a cat among the pigeons here. Perhaps I should have been a little more expansive. While I will never condone overbaked disruptive behaviour from anyone, children included, inclusion and tolerance are concepts that are disappearing at an alarming rate across the board, not just at your favourite cafe. The warm environment of a favourite cafe instills the better aspects of our society into anyone that's there...that's why we keep going back. So yes, encourage and bring the kids but with the barriers and boundaries of common courtesy and respect that make life worth living. Showing kids a good time at your local cafe does not infer license to run riot, quite the opposite. It should bring with it patiently delivered instruction and example on how to not just enjoy but contribute to the delicious atmosphere of a great cafe.

    -PW
    Children are a blessing not a curse, and younger generations do not have the antipathy towards children that some of the posters here seem to have. I have noticed a resentment towards children among the older generation, a generation that was a product of the so called 60s revolution, the first real "me" generation. I think it has something to do with the fact that this generation had a belief that it was different, immortal, would change the world and rewrite history, basically a narcissism that fell apart when reality struck with the first oil shock and the unemployment that hit in the mid-seventies. A new generation of disillusioned youth emerged. Anyone remember the Sex Pistols?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernsbrew View Post
    Children are a blessing not a curse, and younger generations do not have the antipathy towards children that some of the posters here seem to have. I have noticed a resentment towards children among the older generation, a generation that was a product of the so called 60s revolution, the first real "me" generation. I think it has something to do with the fact that this generation had a belief that it was different, immortal, would change the world and rewrite history, basically a narcissism that fell apart when reality struck with the first oil shock and the unemployment that hit in the mid-seventies. A new generation of disillusioned youth emerged. Anyone remember the Sex Pistols?
    In spite of what you seem to believe about "some of the posters" I too happen to be one of the "younger generations" and still think that uncontrolled brats have absolutely no place in a cafe, or anywhere else in public. I do not go to my local daycare centre, or kindy, expecting to be served a nice cup of coffee nor a tumbler of fine scotch so I find it hard to understand why some (and the key word here is some) parents refuse to see why their ill behaved (and not all children are thus) may not be welcome at a cafe. Seems relatively clear cut to me, and it has NOTHING to do with age, generation or anything else narrowly (narrow mindedly?) defined.

    And, vis-a-vis the Sex Pistols, of course I have heard of them, I think my dad used to listen to them.

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    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernsbrew View Post
    ...younger generations do not have the antipathy towards children that some of the posters here seem to have. I have noticed a resentment towards children among the older generation, a generation that was a product of the so called 60s revolution, the first real "me" generation.
    Sorry, but you are wrong. Do you really think tolerance is a factor of age? I can tell you from direct experience that I have become more tolerant. This Baby boomer (Gen Jones, if you want to be more accurate) finds it's best to avoid stereotypes when dealing with people and treat each on their merits.

    As for the Sex Pistols, they weren't the first to act as 'spokespersons' for disaffected youth; that happened in the 1950s (Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis, JO'K, etc as well as the Beat era literati)) and 60s (Stones, Kinks, Who etc). Look at pre-punk groups of the 70s like the Stooges and New York Dolls and the Ramones.

    But to return to the topic, some people enjoy the sound of happy children but others are not so tolerant and that has nothing to do with age. Many go to a cafe to enjoy a peaceful cuppa and that too has nothing to do with age. How many enjoy the sound of screaming, tanty-throwing kids anywhere, let alone a cafe?
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    Re: Noisy Kids in Cafe's.

    It irks me to see parents who let their young children behave in a generally antisocial manner, mostly because I think it is often a sign of poor parenting.

    That said, I have a 15 month old who is unnervingly well behaved and who has been visiting cafés with us since the day he left hospital (in fact, we stopped at Lois Baxters on the way home from the hospital!). He does occasionally make loud noises (its a learning thing), but thats life. My local cafe is always full of kids, and it makes for an enjoyable breakfast.

    Dont like that? Want to have a quiet coffee and read the paper? Then stay home, because "out in public" there are other people, and part of living in a society is the fact that not everything revolves around you!
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    TC
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    Misplaced apostrophes bother me easily as much noisy kids in "cafe's"
    Last edited by TC; 1st March 2013 at 02:32 PM.
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    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernsbrew View Post
    Don't agree. If boundaries were laid down and adhered to the "little fellow human beings" born some 50-60 years ago would not be the selfish adults they are now concerned only with their own pleasure and happiness, who couldn't give a rat's bottom about anyone else or their right to enjoy their peace without having a loud , obnoxious narcissist invade not only their space but also their life. Just look at the boomers for example, the mollycoddled "no spank" generation who basically worship themselves and have little respect for anyone else and they're loud!
    Don't know about you but as a child I was taught to show some respect for those around me especially when out in public places. Alot of parents still seem to be teaching their kids good manners but an increasing number seem to be raising out of control "free range" kids. Often they are left to race around with little supervision. These screeching little monsters constantly demanding attention are just a sign of bad parenting.

    Well behaved kids are a joy and a blessing and a wonderful reflection of their parents. Badly behaved kids not so much, especially when inflicted on the unsuspecting public.

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    Senior Member Bernsbrew's Avatar
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    Some people don't have a choice about their kids. Youngsters can and do become over-excited, some more than others. My youngest daughter is highly active, climbs on and up everything, runs everywhere, screams with excitement. She simply finds it difficult to sit still for an extended period, consequently we have to choose our venues carefully. Many children are like this. The problem is grumpy old f@rts from a generation that regarded the world as theirs. Well tough, the world has moved on. Children have a place, and it's everywhere. GOFs - underworked and overpaid - saddled the nation with debt in their quest for a blessed latte lifestyle they never earned that the rest of us and our children must now repay. With their comfy retirements secured, the least GOFs can do is tolerate the generations that are paying their bills. I have no time for GOFs who think the rest of us owe them a debt of gratitude. GOFs who don't like youngsters should stay home.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernsbrew View Post
    Some people don't have a choice about their kids. Youngsters can and do become over-excited, some more than others. My youngest daughter is highly active, climbs on and up everything, runs everywhere, screams with excitement. She simply finds it difficult to sit still for an extended period, consequently we have to choose our venues carefully. Many children are like this. The problem is grumpy old f@rts from a generation that regarded the world as theirs. Well tough, the world has moved on. Children have a place, and it's everywhere. GOFs - underworked and overpaid - saddled the nation with debt in their quest for a blessed latte lifestyle they never earned that the rest of us and our children must now repay. With their comfy retirements secured, the least GOFs can do is tolerate the generations that are paying their bills. I have no time for GOFs who think the rest of us owe them a debt of gratitude. GOFs who don't like youngsters should stay home.
    It's very sad to see such an "us versus them" interpretation of life.

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    Senior Member Bernsbrew's Avatar
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    Yes, and whose fault is that?

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernsbrew View Post
    Some people don't have a choice about their kids. Youngsters can and do become over-excited, some more than others. My youngest daughter is highly active, climbs on and up everything, runs everywhere, screams with excitement. She simply finds it difficult to sit still for an extended period, consequently we have to choose our venues carefully. Many children are like this. The problem is grumpy old f@rts from a generation that regarded the world as theirs. Well tough, the world has moved on. Children have a place, and it's everywhere. GOFs - underworked and overpaid - saddled the nation with debt in their quest for a blessed latte lifestyle they never earned that the rest of us and our children must now repay. With their comfy retirements secured, the least GOFs can do is tolerate the generations that are paying their bills. I have no time for GOFs who think the rest of us owe them a debt of gratitude. GOFs who don't like youngsters should stay home.
    Considering the tone and content of your post, we should not be surprised by the monkey-like behaviour of your youngest daughter. Do you think the behaviour you describe will be tolerated in a classroom? Might she have miraculously outgrown her behaviour without any intervention from you?
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    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernsbrew View Post
    Yes, and whose fault is that?
    Bern,
    I think you've made some pretty sweeping generalisations in your previous post. My parents would be members of your GOF generation, have worked their backsides off for their entire life, while looking after (at last count) a total of more than 50 foster kids that others were not in a position to care for. They are in their 60s and still look after 5 kids. When they get the chance to go to cafe for a cuppa (every 6 weeks or so) they try to find somewhere quiet. I reckon that's fair enough. That said, they've never caused a fuss when things don't work out. Of my younger friends, some have no problem with noisy kids, some detest them.....not sure its a generational thing.
    Cheers
    BOSW.

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    Everyone has a right to an opinion, but when that persons opinion affects others once must wonder if its a valid opinion....
    My old grumpy parents have taught me many things, none more important than respecting others. just cause there now old that doesn't mean what they taught me should be thrown out the window
    We of this so called rebellious generation have to many rights. Free will to some degree yes, but your free willed actions shouldn't affect others.

  39. #39
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    Perhaps this thread has run it's course mods? It's just getting personal and nasty.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernsbrew View Post
    Yes, and whose fault is that?
    I would suggest that it is most likely your fault. As an adult you ultimately decide who you are and how you act so perhaps it is time to stop playing the role of the victim and assume responsibility for your one life and for the lives and actions of your young ones as well.
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  41. #41
    Senior Member Bernsbrew's Avatar
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    I'm just sticking up for kids ... and their parents. The "irresponsible parent with indulged, selfish brat" is a very tired, old stereotype. It's been a stock standard in so many comedies over the years - funny men from Benny Hill to John Cleese have done their own take on the characters. I like children and I like when they enjoy themselves. The problem rests with the whingers, mostly GOFs in my experience. Accept children and the hard working mums n dads ... or stay home.

    Dennis, my daughter is a beautiful, funny, highly social child, who charms and engages with all around her. She puts the joy back into life, joy that some people seem to resent. Open up and welcome the childlike joy, lest you too become the GOF.
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  42. #42
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    Meh!

    Some philosophy:

    . Live and let live!
    . The purpose of life is joy; the basis of life is freedom; the outcome/result of life is growth.
    . Anything that anybody ever wants to be, do or have, is because of their belief that in the being, doing or having it, they will feel better; that might be feeling happier, or just less powerless, less fearful or less angry.
    . there's absolutely nothing wrong with anyone thinking that the universe revolves around them and acting accordingly, because guess what - it does! Anybody who resents someone else doing whatever they want is fearful/angry (they're the same thing because anger = fear expressed) that in doing so they will take away from their own unexpressed/repressed belief that the world actually revolves around them, as a result of which they believe everyone else must act as they wish so that they can feel happier/less fearful.
    . Not one single person on this planet can control everything that, or even much of what, happens around them so they can more easily choose to feel happy/less fearful. You can't control what happens to you, but you can control your own reaction and your own thoughts. Everyone chooses their thoughts in response to what happens around them. You can choose to be unhappy about noisy kids in coffee shops or grocers' apostrophes, or you can choose not to let it bother you and be happy/less fearful anyway.
    . How you feel is ALWAYS your choice, but if you've developed a habit of thought in relation to any subject, then it's easy for you to go there whenever the subject arises. But know this; how you feel about any subject is always, absolutely and forever your choice.
    . You can choose your thoughts; why not make them good ones.

    Why do successive generations think that the younger generations behave as if the universe revolves around them (which it does, by the way)? Believe me, this has been going on for thousands of years; I'm aware of at least one Greek or Roman historian or writer who is quoted as lamenting the lack of respect of the younger generation of his time, and it reads almost exactly like the complaints expressed in this thread. Can't you think of something original to complain about? If I can track down the quotation I'm thinking of, I'll come back and edit this post or add it to the thread.

    Anyway, to our own recent history and current times:
    . Baby boomers were raised by parents that survived the Great Depression and WW II. Having lived through grave world-wide lack, conflict, fear and uncertainty, they were anxious to ensure that their children, as much as they could control it, would not experience what they suffered during their young lives so that their children would be happier/less fearful than they were. Sounds fair, doesn't it? Isn't that what all parents want?
    . Many but not all baby boomers did well and, following their parents' example, wanted their own children to be happier/less fearful than they were. Still sounds like most parents, doesn't it?
    . Through successive generations the cycle has continued, aided and abetted along the way by Dr Spock and various other "experts" and do-gooders intent on making life easy for kids and hard for parents who would like to resort to traditional methods of child discipline such as - "shock and horror" - smacking, in public even! Wouldn't some of you complainers like to see that? :-)
    . The end result is that too many of today's youth have not experienced the simple joy of achieving something on their own, especially something like overcoming a difficulty, because their parents, teachers or other adults have been lead to believe that young people can't do anything on their own unless and until an adult teaches them or disciplines them, and that everything must be done for them. Think of your own youth and the joy you felt when you discovered you could do something you previously didn't think you could. How many young peple are given that simple opportunity these days, when everything is done for them and they're not allowed to learn by taking any risks by themselves or making mistakes they can learn from?
    . Everybody, all children included, learn by experience, not words. All children need to experience the joy of achievement and the desire to do better after making a mistake and the even greater joy of eventual achievement, which is what learning from mistakes is all about. They have to be given opportunities to do so. The opportunity to behave appropriately in the presence of others and the good feeling they experience as a result is one of these.

    Don't waste energy getting angry at noisy kids in coffee shops or elsewhere, and don't waste energy blaming their parents either, because both are a result of their own parenting and the belief systems that were inculcated as a result. Give praise where it's due (because that adds to the joy of achievement) and find something else to think about if praise isn't - to your constrained mind at least - due right now.

    Don't worry! Be happy! Or go elsewhere, physically or in your mind, until you can more readily make the choice to be happy regardless of your circumstances. And if coffee makes you happy drink more of it, and if it makes you touchy give it up.

    Sorry for the long post.
    Last edited by Banjo.au; 1st March 2013 at 10:09 PM. Reason: Added "coffee"

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    Senior Member Bernsbrew's Avatar
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    You forgot to mention coffee, mate.

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    That should do it.
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    Unruly kids unwelcome:

    Full marks to The Little French Cafe, my feelings exactly.

    Good Food - French cafe's 'housekeeping' post sparks debate over children in coffee shops
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    I think the owners second comment was fine, but the first probably lost it's effect with the condescending tone. I can, however, understand the frustration with parents who don't parent. A symptom of the apparently increasly absense of courtesy in public in general, perhaps?

    That said, the babychino thing on the otherhand is just self important nonsense. What's next? Refusing to sell juice or tea?

    The pram issues is interesting. I've always loved going out for breakfast/coffee on weekends. I had 6 weeks off when my son was born, so plenty of opportunity to do it on weekdays too. Sadly I found I couldn't walk to half my local cafés, because there simply wasn't enough space. So my custom went elsewhere.

    Given the size of some places, its understandable they can't accommodate (how do they deal with wheelchairs?), but ostracising people with prams or small children is only going to hurt your business in the long run. Children grow up, young hipsters settle down and have kids. Odd fact about life.

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    I blame the ipads

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    I'm glad I was never a kid

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernsbrew View Post
    Some people don't have a choice about their kids. Youngsters can and do become over-excited, some more than others. My youngest daughter is highly active, climbs on and up everything, runs everywhere, screams with excitement. She simply finds it difficult to sit still for an extended period, consequently we have to choose our venues carefully. Many children are like this. The problem is grumpy old f@rts from a generation that regarded the world as theirs. Well tough, the world has moved on. Children have a place, and it's everywhere. GOFs - underworked and overpaid - saddled the nation with debt in their quest for a blessed latte lifestyle they never earned that the rest of us and our children must now repay. With their comfy retirements secured, the least GOFs can do is tolerate the generations that are paying their bills. I have no time for GOFs who think the rest of us owe them a debt of gratitude. GOFs who don't like youngsters should stay home.


    You want to knock that chip off your shoulder going way OTT with those comments.
    And what's a GOF when it's at home?

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