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Thread: When a 250g bag of beans doesn't contain 250g of beans

  1. #1
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    When a 250g bag of beans doesn't contain 250g of beans

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    So last night I picked up 250g of decaf beans from a cafe on Northcote High st. (a very good cafe with lots of SOs, with beans from a local roaster) and I'm stunned that they charged $19. (Their other beans, including COE, are all normal Melbourne quality-roaster prices)

    So when we got home I was looking at the package for a reason for the price when I start to think it feels light, so I decided to weigh the bag and it was just 249g, including the bag. I then weighed the beans and they were only 237g!

    I looked up the relevant weights and measures laws, to see what the latest legal position is. To my complete surprise, a bag marked 250g can have as little as 232g of beans and be legal!

    It's not quite as much of a rip off as that, under one of two allowable schemes, when a sample of bags is checked they need to average 250g, with no bags below 232g, so overall consumers aren't being ripped off. But geez, I bought a 250g bag of beans and it only had 237g in it, so I'm hacked off.

    I'll be letting the roaster and cafe know later today that I'm not impressed with their weighing abilities.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathon View Post
    So when we got home I was looking at the package for a reason for the price when I start to think it feels light, so I decided to weigh the bag and it was just 249g, including the bag. I then weighed the beans and they were only 237g!
    Wow- pretty poor form. The right (honest) thing to do is to zero the bag before filling it.

    We only do 500g bags but they will always contain 510-520g beans.

    You're welcome to pop in to us Jonathan. You will get 500g of one of our blends for what you paid yesterday.

    Chris

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    This is my biggest fear when packing coffee, so I always go 2-5g over just to be sure. Also, someone's scales might be a bit off.. who knows?

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    Senior Member coffeechris's Avatar
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    For the sake of that roaster you would hope thats a one off. If by chance it wasn't, word on something like that could spread very quickly. You should take them back and tell them to see what their response is. You would hope they are very sorry but glad you told them. You could end up with a free bag of coffee.

    But yes poor form for sure.

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    Hmmm that's pretty ordinary form, maybe it was an accident, it would be interesting to see if it is standard practice for them to do that, not that you would want to shell out $ again for an under dosed bag. I have occasionally weighed bags of beans I've bought from various roasters about the place & like talk coffee & reedburg above I have found they generally are 5-20g over the stated weight. Anyway feedback is good.....

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    It would be poor if it had been done on purpose. Otherwise it could be a mistake....or nothing (keep reading please).

    It will be best if you havent opened the packet yet, and take it back.

    Note there *could* be a difference in what your scale reads, to what theirs read. Business has to use scales that are "trade certified".

    In the old days when trade had (accurate) electronic scales but households only had machanical dial scales and it was easier to explain and or prove (which was correct).

    These days with everyone having access to electronic scales, everyone (incl traders) forget that they are not all tared properly and can fluctuate.

    2 weeks ago I checked two new electronic kitchen scales (weighing in 1 gram increments) , side by side, with the same wieght, They did not read the same as eachother, and they are not trade certified or tared by "weights and measures" at required intervals, by govt inspectors, as ours are....

    That is not to say that your bag isnt light on....just that there is always more to this than meets the eye at first.


    Take it back for them to check and see. Either way if it were me, I would give you another bag in addition to the one you paid for. It's good will, and it also gives them a heads up to check what they are doing in the back room.

    Oh and for the record, we also tare the packet BEFORE filling, we check weigh ramdom samples, and we keep a close eye on the speed of the packing machine (too fast and it will over weigh which then is no good for us....fair is fair). You can set both speed as well as accuracy...if you set too much accuracy, your speed goes to the pot, and there is a happy medium that gives accuracy in weighing and good speed of packing.

    Did someone say $19.00 per 250 grams.....??????????????????????

    Farrrr ouT. Gold plated beans?

    We picked up a packet of coffee in a major capital city last week. It had all the usual BS written on it to make you think they are doing you a favour by letting you buy it......and its a Certified "Research Facility" if that means anything to you. And at the bottom of it all it says....Established 2012.

    This is the sort of stuff that should really be worrying people.

    Attilio
    very first CS site sponsor.

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    I think if I was paying nearly $80 a kilo I would want the full 250 grams. But then if I was selling at $80 a kilo I wouldn't want to give to much away either. Just thought I'd weigh in there.

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    pwp
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    That's amazing you can perceive a 13 gram variation in the hand. You are Human Scales. Libra?
    Clearly it was weighed "in the bag", possibly in a hurry, possibly by an inexperienced casual or a rogue anti-decaf activist.
    249 grams vs 250 grams; that's just scales variation.

    13 grams under...that's one shot. They shouldn't do it but really, why sweat the small stuff?

    -PW
    Sir_Stinkalot likes this.

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    Weighing the bag and beans together rather than weighing the beans then pouring them into the bag is the reason one retailer lost my business.

    To add insult to injury they were always on the light side of the weight tolerance, without fail.

    I should thank them though as this was a large part of the reason I decided to start home roasting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fresh_Coffee View Post
    And at the bottom of it all it says....Established 2012.

    This is the sort of stuff that should really be worrying people.

    Attilio
    very first CS site sponsor.
    Hey Attilio! I established my business last year, doesn't mean anything other than that is when I was capable of affording to start it, granted I don't have a certified research facility.. maybe that's where I am going wrong! (I know that's not what you are saying )

    I have a tip for anyone who wonders about exact weight. Go to any post office and ask them to weigh your bag, tell them you want to know how much it will cost to post it locally, their scales are accurate and are tested (and calibrated if need be) once a year.

    As a side note, my $15 kitchen scales show 105gm where my business scales (that I know are accurate) show 100gm, which means that there is between 98 and 102gms but certainly not 105gm. Just tested this now.

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    When a 250g bag of beans doesn't contain 250g of beans

    Interesting replies guys.

    My scales are definitely accurate to <1g, I test them regularly with weights.

    Despite the $19 price, I'm more bemused than annoyed - the decaf is for my wife and she normally doesn't get through the full 250g within a week or two before we get a new bag, so we're not really missing out.

    Chris - no doubting the quality of your beans, I loved the Shed Shandy I got from you a while back, just hard to get to you in office hours.

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    Senior Member fatboy_1999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pwp View Post
    ..

    13 grams under...that's one shot. They shouldn't do it but really, why sweat the small stuff?

    -PW
    So at what point is it worth worrying about being short changed? 20g? 25g?

    I'd take it back or at least tell them about it.

    The 250g coffee bags I use average 13g in weight when empty on non certified scales, so the minimum that goes into my bags is 263g. As I do these by hand (upwards of 4 bags a week in 'sales'!) I find it easier not to tare once the bag is on the scales.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatboy_1999 View Post
    So at what point is it worth worrying about being short changed?.....

    I'd take it back or at least tell them about it.....
    Too right.

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    When a 250g bag of beans doesn't contain 250g of beans

    I wrote to the cafe last night explaining the issue. They replied within an hour or two, on a Saturday night, apologizing and offering to send me a free bag from their next roast run.

    Perfect customer service. Mistakes happen to everyone, it's all about how you handle the customer and these guys did it perfectly.

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    Senior Member coffeechris's Avatar
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    Good result, a positive for both parties....
    You get a free bag of coffee and they see the error and can work to rectify it so it doesn't happen in the future.

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    When a 250g bag of beans doesn't contain 250g of beans

    Quote Originally Posted by coffeechris View Post
    Good result, a positive for both parties....
    You get a free bag of coffee and they see the error and can work to rectify it so it doesn't happen in the future.
    I actually said thanks but no thanks to the free coffee. I wasn't really out of pocket as we never use the full 250g before replacing with a fresh bag and I think it makes a more powerful message to the shop that you're not whining just to get a freebie, but genuinely asking them to do better next time.

    But yes, definitely a positive for both parties.

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    Senior Member coffeechris's Avatar
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    I see your point.. i wouldnt wont to be seen as whinging about something either. However if i was a owner of a coffee roaster or anything of that matter i ask myself would i want to know about peoples complaints? damn right i would, its a hard pill to swallow sometimes hearing negative things regarding a product you sell. However it can be a blessing as then you know what needs fixing.

    Must add $20 is a lot for 250g though.... It is what it is i guess


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    When a 250g bag of beans doesn't contain 250g of beans

    Quote Originally Posted by coffeechris View Post

    Must add $20 is a lot for 250g though.... It is what it is i guess

    Yep $19 for 250g is seriously expensive. I don't mind paying that much for a SO that's seriously rocking, but for a normal blend, from a top roaster, I'd normally pay $10-14. (St Ali, Padre, Talk Coffee, Axil, etc).

    The beans in question were roasted on the 28th, so I've been holding off to let them breathe. I might give them a go in the morning to see how they taste, even though they're decaf, to see what you get for $19.

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    Re: When a 250g bag of beans doesn't contain 250g of beans

    Before we go too far down the track of how expensive the beans are, consider that if these use the swiss water process to decaffeinate the beans, then for every 250g of product, nearly 250g are wasted. This is why decaf is always more expensive (not to mention the additional time spent processing them).

    $19 per bag of regular beans isnt unheard of over here in Perth anyway...

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    Green coffee calibration table

    hello every body can anyone give me an example of green coffee and parchment calibration table I need to make comparison for getting good readings of my moisture meter.

    I am doubting on what I am getting as moisture measurement.
    Thanks.

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    Re: When a 250g bag of beans doesn't contain 250g of beans

    I suggest you start a new thread, rather than posting in someone elses unrelated thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrJack View Post
    I suggest you start a new thread, rather than posting in someone elses unrelated thread.
    Chances of John returning to actually follow your advice?

    We sell our house blend at a 9er for 250g. When I am splitting bags for retail I often overfill for this exact reason. Actually more like for the exact opposite reason; I always imagine in my head the little smile on the customers face when they notice that they might just squeeze an extra shot out of their purchase.

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    Junior Member Salgar's Avatar
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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Old post I know but if I can't think of a better title I think it's appropriate..

    I had just the opposite experience at a cake shop where I was surprised to see a row of coffee chutes full of green beans. Turns out they roast on demand,(big glass and metal cylinder with a chimney to the ceiling on the counter hadn't tipped me off) you call them up and order then pick up in a few days - I asked if they would sell some green and after going out the back to ask she replied they'd do a 250 gram bag for $7.00, $2.50 less than what they charge for roasted. Not as good as Bean Bay but to try a different bean and no shipping cost I thought what the heck. I just went to roast them and after pouring 300 grams into the collander I still had at least half a bag left! She'd filled the 250 gram bag with the heavy raw beans and not weighed. Still not an astounding bargain but puts it to a reasonable cost, if I ever make it back to that shop I'll ask for clarification so I don't feel like I'm exploiting.



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