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Thread: You cant produce good coffee with soy.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    You cant produce good coffee with soy.

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    This claim, along with a number of others, first in Oz to import green beans etc is guaranteed to stir the pot.
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/exec...-1226700052214
    Last edited by Yelta; 20th August 2013 at 02:16 PM.

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    Maybe she meant the first to import them for her shops?

    That comes across as a advertorial piece - I'm thinking there would also be an advert for her cafés on the page...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    This claim, along with a number of others, first in Oz to import green beans etc is guaranteed to stir the pot.
    Man accused of poisoning partner's coffee with rat poison
    *is confused* "Man accused of poisoning partner's coffee with rat poison"

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbrewster View Post
    *is confused* "Man accused of poisoning partner's coffee with rat poison"
    Sorry JB, not having a good day, I think I've got the right link up now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Sorry JB, not having a good day, I think I've got the right link up now.
    Yeah, link works now, but there is so much BS in there... If you can't texture Soy without curdling you're doing it wrong...

    Was the first to import green coffee in 2008, yeah, right...

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbrewster View Post
    If you can't texture Soy without curdling you're doing it wrong...

    Was the first to import green coffee in 2008, yeah, right...
    Never tried to steam soy so cant comment (it can obviously be done)

    Re first to import in 2008, wonder what Andy would have to say about that?

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    Soy is easy to work with if you know what you are doing:

    1) Never heat above 55degrees.
    2) Never use a bean with high acidity.

    ...Simple...

    Above 55 degrees will Curdle instantly.
    High acidity beans react instantly with Soy and are impossible not to curdle.

    ...Simple...

    I can bet money on the fact that their blend has a high acidic bean in there which is restricting the soy.

  8. #8
    TC
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    Yeah- We have seen this one before.

    They roast so light that their hipster coffee curdles soy from 10m away. Far be it from me to suggest that they could consider roasting an appropriate blend which might work well with milk (and soy for that matter). I guess lemons and soy have never been compatible..

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Like this quote

    "game on for the post-espresso (or "third wave") coffee movement"

    Somehow I have a feeling the term "post espresso" may just be a tad premature.

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    We never did soy based drinks in our shop either, mostly because the stink of it made me ill. We also had 27 varieties of coffee to pick from in 1998. Guess that make me more of pioneer than her. I hardly think she's a pioneer of much at all.

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    Pour overs easier than a cup of tea or a nespresso? Better, sure. But hard to defend 'easier'.

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    Bunch of grumpy old men you lot.

    Not really sure what happened to this forum. It used to embrace and find inspiration in third wave coffee.
    Ho Hum.

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    That's a shame. I thought Market Lane had better baristas than that - can't serve soy without curdling? Seriously?!

    Maybe the problem was just cheap soy. Or maybe not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fruity View Post
    That's a shame. I thought Market Lane had better baristas than that - can't serve soy without curdling? Seriously?!

    Maybe the problem was just cheap soy. Or maybe not.
    They do have good barista's but they also roast very light. The same thing happens with the decaf blend I use at work. I respect them for not wanting to serve a product that doesn't work with their beans. There is space in the coffee industry for many styles and tastes. Not sure why everyone wants it done the same way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by muppet_man67 View Post
    They do have good barista's but they also roast very light. The same thing happens with the decaf blend I use at work. I respect them for not wanting to serve a product that doesn't work with their beans. There is space in the coffee industry for many styles and tastes. Not sure why everyone wants it done the same way.
    Fair enough. But that article implies that it can't be done, not that they've painted themselves into a corner with light roasts.
    TC likes this.

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    Senior Groupie LindaD's Avatar
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    "Can't produce a good coffee with soy?"

    Has she even tried to find one that does work?

    I use Bonsoy, and find it fantastic to work with...leaves Deltra Goodrems horrid smelly stuff that-smells-like-burnt-plastic, for dead.

    -Linda

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    I use bonsoy too. On light roasted coffees it turns into a slugsacino.

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muppet_man67 View Post
    I use bonsoy too. On light roasted coffees it turns into a slugsacino.
    Sounds like enticing stuff, think I'll just stick to good old moo.

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    Senior Groupie LindaD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muppet_man67 View Post
    I use bonsoy too. On light roasted coffees it turns into a slugsacino.

    Don't have any issues with either light or medium roasts.

    Shame that you get bad results

    -Linda

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maccas_chicka View Post
    Why is that MM?

    I don't roast my beans too dark, Husband doesn't like strong coffee so my roasts are say between CS7-9 most times.

    -Linda
    I believe it has to do with the light roast/high acid coffee causing the soy to curdle.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Rocky's Avatar
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    I have used a few different Soy milks over the years as my Daughter is lactose intolerant.
    Whilst soy milk is not to my taste, I have never had problems steaming it (and I don't stop at 55 degrees)
    Two that I have used are:

    Vita Soy "Soy Milky' Lite.
    Sanitarium 'So Good' Fat Free.

    Of these two the former steams beautifully and works nicely with the shot.

    I only use Andy's beans so maybe that is the answer.

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    What IS 'third wave coffee'? Or 'post-espresso' for that matter?

    I tried a couple of well-recommended places in Flinders and Market and damn near cut my cheeks open on the inside they sucked in so fast. I like my coffee well-rounded, so all my taste buds get a treat, not so acidic the cheeks try to protect the tongue by collapsing inwards to cover the taste buds.

    Mind you, I am an old bloke, but I do find it passing strange how often 'Fad' goes way past quality just to be new.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    I have used a few different Soy milks over the years as my Daughter is lactose intolerant.
    Whilst soy milk is not to my taste, I have never had problems steaming it (and I don't stop at 55 degrees)
    Two that I have used are:

    Vita Soy "Soy Milky' Lite.
    Sanitarium 'So Good' Fat Free.

    Of these two the former steams beautifully and works nicely with the shot.

    I only use Andy's beans so maybe that is the answer.
    You should try Bonsoy. Steams like milk, and doesn't taste like crap. I hate soy, but I can drink Bonsoy (if we've run out of real milk!).

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    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Ahhh, codswallop :-)
    We only use soy now for FW's (Vitasoy Red Original or Calciplus). No problem with texturing now I'm used to it (though it does take a little more work and you need to draw a bit more air into it at the surface than normal milk), and never had it curdle for that matter - from steaming or acidic coffee. Have heard you do get that in cafes sometimes…
    I actually struggle now with now normal milk (it froths too easily - can blob up like whipped cream!) and don't like the taste anymore - all I can taste is the fat! I actually think the nutty taste of soy compliments the coffee well…

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    Surely there were other cafes self importing green beans before 2008.
    And the soy claim - surely there is a clue in the mention that people were returning them - that means that they've had a good soy based coffee elsewhere and know that what they've been served isn't right.

  26. #26
    TC
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    ....but if time according to you commenced in 2008...

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    Further Fuel to the single origin and soy fire

    Reply to #1 on the importing green beans.

    Importing green beans: As an original eastern stater who has done over 40 trips across the 'plain, I am unaware of any earlier green bean roaster direct to the public than this one.
    Bellaroma in West Perth started importing what would now be regarded as single origin fair trade organic in the late '70's. Has been doing fresh daily roasts ever since, now on the fourth owner. Original owner Lindsay visited the farmers and paid them more to stop using all the "i-cides" and send them directly to him. Despite roasting the best coffee in Perth for years, the brew served at the table brew was atrocious - I doubt he ever cleaned the machine. Another pity, he did not register the name so a newcomer in Sydney forced him to change it. by then it had become an empire with a wholesale arm and several retail outlets. None of them had the coffee bean quality of the little West Perth daily roaster. I used to take the beans back to Sydney and later Melbourne in the '80's and '90's. Just before Lindsay retired it was renamed to Bonissimo and Caffisimo, was split up and the bits were sold separately. The original shop still does daily fresh roasts as Caffissimo, West Perth. The fourth owner (that I know of) decided to make decent over the counter coffee. A La Marzocco Strada later and the "at the table" is now (finally) up to standard. BTW, it came second in Perth's "City of Perth Eat Drink Perth" coffee vote by the public. In terms of the beans, I have never had better roasted coffee anywhere in Aust or the US (Melbourne and Sydney, eat your heart out). Antz in Vic Park are now equal on a good day, although they are variable. Zeitgeist(?) in Byron Bay were also equal in the '80's (perhaps they started earlier than that). Naked Bean in Albany is also outstanding - their Sulawesi converted a "strictly tea drinking" friend of mine to buy coffee making gear on the spot. Impressive.
    If you discount the "available directly to the public" bit, Robert Timms used to roast New Guinea beans daily in Washington St (Cnr Geddes or Carlisle St, I forget which) Vic Park in the mid '60's. I used to get high on the fumes cycling to school in '68 and '69 when I lived at no 30 Washington. Probably where my love of coffee comes from.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    I have used a few different Soy milks over the years as my Daughter is lactose intolerant.
    Whilst soy milk is not to my taste, I have never had problems steaming it (and I don't stop at 55 degrees)
    Two that I have used are:

    Vita Soy "Soy Milky' Lite.
    Sanitarium 'So Good' Fat Free.

    Of these two the former steams beautifully and works nicely with the shot.
    I also have played with Soy milk & coffee - strangely enough with those two amongst others. I have soy in everything except coffee (So Good with cereal this morning). After trying virtually every soy on the market I can get perfect foam easily enough. Unfortunately, I cannot get it to stop trashing the flavour of the coffee. I think it actually reacts chemically with it. Rice, sheep & goats milk all work, but soy just cannot seem to help itself. Just my 2 cents worth.

  28. #28
    Senior Member Rocky's Avatar
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    Yeah, maybe it is an acquired taste.
    Both my wife and Daughter appear to have taught themselves to like Soy
    (I guess necessity does that to you)
    I'd rather not have 'milk' coffee than have it with Soy.

  29. #29
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    I'd rather not have 'milk' coffee than have it with Soy.
    No argument from me on this point Rocky.
    chokkidog and Vinitasse like this.

  30. #30
    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    No argument from me on this point Rocky.
    Irregardless of the fact that it certainly ain't "milk" in any way, shape or form... not to mention scarey stuff like phytoestrogens... I have always thought the stuff tasted like wet cardboard

  31. #31
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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    Yeah, maybe it is an acquired taste.
    Both my wife and Daughter appear to have taught themselves to like Soy
    (I guess necessity does that to you)
    I'd rather not have 'milk' coffee than have it with Soy.
    My wife is lactose intolerant - that's why we went there. It was easier to learn to like it than do two jugs!
    Actually prefer it now :-)

    It is what you get used too - I used to hate espresso!



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