Results 1 to 17 of 17
Like Tree3Likes
  • 2 Post By Dimal
  • 1 Post By GregWormald

Thread: Extraction time for ristrettos

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    5

    Extraction time for ristrettos

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi guys, help a rookie out!

    When extracting a ristretto, should I set my grind to extract a regular shot over the 25 sec, and just cut the shot short, or should I be trying to extract my ristretto volume over the 25 seconds?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Coffee Nut fg1972's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    461
    Try both, see what works for your taste buds.
    Welcome to the forum by the way.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    349
    Ristretto means "restricted" I think, referring to the flow rather than the volume (although the volume is restricted too, because the extraction is thicker and slower). IMO you should be grinding finder or dosing slightly higher and tamping harder to achieve vs a regular shot.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    349
    I believe there is also a name for a regular espresso cut short but it escapes me at the moment.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    PRL
    Posts
    2,705
    Most commercial outlets obviously don't change their grind for a ristretto (but you have the opportunity to). Why not have two cups ready and switch cups at the point at which you want to define your ristretto (and you could do this at the start and end of the pour if you're from that school)? Taste the ristretto cup, then chuck the 'dregs' cup in and see what difference you can taste.
    I'm no expert, but I find that best answer to the issue that you're referring to varies by bean/roast level (and obviously your palate).

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    142
    i think a run of the mill ristretto is your normal grind and tamp but stopping when the pour is still a dark brown usually around the 10-15 sec mark.

    well that's how i do my ristrettos anyway and they taste gd. this method should in theory, yield better (as in consistent) results as you're simply cutting the extraction time short while keeping your other variables constant, and that's key to making a gd coffee each and every time.

  7. #7
    Coffee Newbie okitoki's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Perth. WA
    Posts
    454
    I had a laugh... thats funny... I just have a chat with the barrista I normally pick up my afternoon coffee fix yesterday as to what a Ristrettos is...

    he's an old italian guy... gave me the "WTF" look... proceed to explain to me how he makes it... which pretty much as "Tamp harder, and cut short your espresso at just over half a shot... ... thats it... and then he grumbled about how its just something fancy arty farty people made up as he never seen it been made in the "old country"

  8. #8
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    PRL
    Posts
    2,705
    Quote Originally Posted by okitoki View Post
    I had a laugh... thats funny... I just have a chat with the barrista I normally pick up my afternoon coffee fix yesterday as to what a Ristrettos is...

    he's an old italian guy... gave me the "WTF" look... proceed to explain to me how he makes it... which pretty much as "Tamp harder, and cut short your espresso at just over half a shot... ... thats it... and then he grumbled about how its just something fancy arty farty people made up as he never seen it been made in the "old country"

    Ahh, you see I've met a couple of old Italian guys (actually maybe it's only one) who also let the 1st few drops go into the drip tray...horses for courses I guess.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    349
    Can recommend cutting shot at different times and tasting them. You'd be amazed at how a few seconds past the optimal point of extraction can ruin a straight espresso (less hurtful with milk and sugar, though). But it's educational.

  10. #10
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    17,207
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfalz View Post
    I believe there is also a name for a regular espresso cut short but it escapes me at the moment.
    Extractionem Interruptus...

    Mal.
    chokkidog and timdimdom like this.

  11. #11
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    2,096
    Ha! ;-D good one Mal!


    Me? …………...I thought it was ristretto.

    A 'regular' espresso 'restricted' (ri´stretto) to the first 15 seconds.

    If you google it, ('definition of ristretto') it seems pretty rubbery, tho' the finer grind thing
    seems to be popular in the USA.

  12. #12
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    19
    A ristretto should be cut when blinding occurs. If running one spout it depending on dosage it should run for 11-14 seconds . Double ristretto running a double for 17-19seconds should produce a much deeper flavour.

  13. #13
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    2,096
    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleRiz View Post
    A ristretto should be cut when blinding occurs.
    But where is it? I can't see……………

    Coffee definitions and terminology gets more rubbery………...

  14. #14
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    19
    Blonding, auto correct can be a nuisance

  15. #15
    Member ASchecter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    98
    Quote Originally Posted by WillyWill View Post
    When extracting a ristretto, should I set my grind to extract a regular shot over the 25 sec, and just cut the shot short, or should I be trying to extract my ristretto volume over the 25 seconds?
    First off, one can't argue with the people who have told you, "experiment, taste the shots, and decide for yourself." If you have plenty of time and an indefatigable curiosity, this may be the most educational path. There are, however, certain strategies that may cut down on the trial and error component.

    Most folks find that espresso tastes the most balanced (ie, the sour, sweet and bitter components complement each other best) when 19-20% of the soluble solids present in the dry coffee end up dissolved in your demitasse. Using a numerical example, one could imagine a theoretical "normale":
    16g dose yielding
    32g beverage at
    9.5% TDS ("Total Dissolved Solids" also known as "beverage strength").
    9.5% TDS x 32g beverage = 3.04g dissolved solids / 16g dose = 19% "extraction yield."

    A true ristretto might look somewhat different:
    16g yielding
    20g beverage at
    15.2% TDS
    15.2% x 20g beverage = 3.04g dissolved solids / 16g dose = 19% extraction yield.

    These are just examples; everyone's idea of what a ristretto is and what a normale is may vary. But the conventional wisdom is that a normale or ristretto should extract the same percentage of dissolved solids from the original dose in order to taste balanced. For the ristretto to extract the same amount of solids using less water, the ristretto grind must be considerably finer to expose more coffee surface area. This finer grind increases the shot time considerably. So it's not uncommon for a ristretto to taste great after running 35-45 seconds (at a slower than normal flow rate).

    That's the conventional wisdom, but more recently it's been challenged by Scott Rao's somewhat controversial "Double Hump Theory." You can read more about that on James Hoffmann's blog, but the gist of it is that there are alternate good-tasting extractions to be had under certain conditions when the extraction yield is only 15-16%.

    What that means is if one cuts a shot off "early" but not TOO early, it could end up around 15-16% yield and taste pretty good. But there's definitely a trial and error process to be explored in knowing when to cut it off. Alternatively, one could make a super-updosed ristretto using 22g of coffee to make ~18-20g of espresso at a 15-16% yield IF you hit it just right. I believe the best shot of espresso I ever had was made that way, but it was not easy to do and the barista tried four times before he nailed the shot.

    If you have some good scales and a coffee refractometer with filters, you can explore these concepts and see if they work for you.

    I hope this post was helpful -- or at least interesting -- in your quest to make a delicious ristretto.

  16. #16
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    5
    Thanks guys, I've really enjoyed reading your responses!! Was sort of hitting middle ground today between a normale and a ristretto, which I guess makes it a normetto… Around 15g in and 26 out over 35 seconds, not sure where that would sit with the coffee cognoscenti, but I was happy with the taste...

  17. #17
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,288
    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    For cryin' out loud--don't ask that question!

    That's like asking "What's the best oil?" on a motorcycle forum.

    Everybody (including the old Italian baristas) have their own definition. Questions like this will show you why Italy has over 50 political parties. So don't expect **one** answer, except--Suck it and see (how you like it.)

    Greg
    trentski likes this.



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •