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Thread: Magic - 3/4 flat white

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    Magic - 3/4 flat white

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I'm curious, when did a 3/4 flat white start to be called a magic?

    It seems, at least in Melbourne, that several cafés call it a magic, but is that new, or have I just started noticing something that's been done for a while?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathon View Post
    I'm curious, when did a 3/4 flat white start to be called a magic?

    It seems, at least in Melbourne, that several cafés call it a magic, but is that new, or have I just started noticing something that's been done for a while?
    It's for people who don't have the linguistic skills to manage to pronounce "three quarter". Perhaps they're too busy on their phones.

    Come to think of it, they probably failed maths as well. Long live the 5/16th FW
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    Senior Member fatboy_1999's Avatar
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    Ohhhhh. I wondered what the hell that was. Thanks Jonathon.
    I heard it a couple of months back at a place which is currently on top of my 'most pretentious cafe I've ever been to' list. I didn't have the inclination to try and engage the hipster waiter in a discussion about it at the time. Turns out.. good call!

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    I've had them a couple of times in Perth. Don't see any issue with the name personally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatboy_1999 View Post
    Ohhhhh. I wondered what the hell that was. Thanks Jonathon.
    I heard it a couple of months back at a place which is currently on top of my 'most pretentious cafe I've ever been to' list. I didn't have the inclination to try and engage the hipster waiter in a discussion about it at the time. Turns out.. good call!
    Perhaps we should have a separate thread debating the top 10 most pretentious cafés in each city. I know what would make my number 1 in Melbourne, but that's for a different thread.

    But it's not just at the pretentious cafés - the guys from cup of truth in Melbourne are the least pretentious people you'll ever meet, but make outstanding coffee and call it a magic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    It's for people who don't have the linguistic skills to manage to pronounce "three quarter". Perhaps they're too busy on their phones.

    Come to think of it, they probably failed maths as well. Long live the 5/16th FW
    If any drink needs a name change it's either the long black or long mac - in a busy cafe it must be hard for a barista to clearly hear whether the customer said black or mac. On the rare occasions I order either I find myself really focusing on pronouncing the B or M.
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    I've never heard of the name before, but sounds like a quite reasonable description - if it describes what I expect it does
    Personally I've always found the standard FW cups either slightly too much milk for a single shot or too strong as a double. The FW glasses we use at home are 160ml - just perfect for a single shot flat white IMHO.
    So it sounds like they come in smaller cups (6oz?) which would put them right in the sweet spot I reckon!
    That sounds like magic!
    Matt

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    Magic ? ..three quarter ??........... is anyone prepared to state exactly what that is ?
    ( maybe its a FW using half skim, half full cream milk !)......and yes, i have heard that requested !
    ..or is it a FW made with a restretto ?
    Long black..long Mac..
    That what you get for having a multilingual coffee culture !
    I think we should drop the "long black" and go with the international version ... "Americano"
    And whilst we are at it,..has anyone come across the "Gibraltar" on a pretentious coffee menu ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by blend52 View Post
    I think we should drop the "long black" and go with the international version ... "Americano"

    And whilst we are at it,..has anyone come across the "Gibraltar" on a pretentious coffee menu ?
    I read about the Gibraltar last night when I was researching cafes in San Francisco for an upcoming trip. I don't know exactly what it is, I think similar to a flat white?

    And to me, an Americano is hot water on top of a shot, whereas a long black is a shot poured on top of hot water. So a long black should have crema. But that's just my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathon View Post
    I read about the Gibraltar last night when I was researching cafes in San Francisco for an upcoming trip. I don't know exactly what it is, I think similar to a flat white?

    And to me, an Americano is hot water on top of a shot, whereas a long black is a shot poured on top of hot water. So a long black should have crema. But that's just my opinion.
    And a Lungo is about 1/2 the volume of a long black, approx 90 to 100ml, straight out of the porta filter no water added and lots of crema,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathon View Post
    ... an Americano is hot water on top of a shot, whereas a long black is a shot poured on top of hot water. So a long black should have crema.
    My opinion also. They're not the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathon View Post
    And to me, an Americano is hot water on top of a shot, whereas a long black is a shot poured on top of hot water. So a long black should have crema. But that's just my opinion.
    I suspect that depends on the barista / local custom.
    I have had LB's made shot first then water , in Sydney and Americano's made water first, in the USA . And obviously both vice versa.
    I believe a "real" barista knows it always water first .
    The Gibraltar,.. is a Piccolo Latte in the USA. ( to a real barista anyway)

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    I recall the days when ordering a coffee the only question asked was, black or white? life was certainly simpler back then.
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    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    I presume the name 'Magic' comes from the fact that they've worked out a way to sell you a drink 3/4 of the size, and charge you 4/4 of the price? Or does the 3/4 mean that it is somewhere b/w a flat white and latte?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    I presume the name 'Magic' comes from the fact that they've worked out a way to sell you a drink 3/4 of the size, and charge you 4/4 of the price?
    I'm of the same opinion, though I haven't come across a cafe here in Perth that sells a 'Magic'.

    @MrJack: Mind telling me which cafes are they that you've visited which sell 'Magic'?

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    Nobody wanted to purchase it when they called it the w@nk&r

    Stoopid name....

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    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Or maybe if you order a 'Magic' you get served a coffee produced by a particular Saeco automatic?

    But seriously, just about every other coffee descriptor has some sensible origin. But this is like some hipster has decided to base names on US professional basketball teams. I might go in tomorrow and ask for a 'Golden State Warrior' and see what I get.
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    Few places you can definitely get a magic from in Perth include Ristretto/Howard St Coffee, or Lowdown (in the old cloisters arcade) and Gordon St Garage

    Seems to be a lot of angst being directed at this (probably just due to the name) but really I've found it great to get the drink I've always had to describe at length down to a word. Makes me feel less like a fussy snob, which is a good thing.
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    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamm View Post
    Few places you can definitely get a magic from in Perth include Ristretto/Howard St Coffee, or Lowdown (in the old cloisters arcade) and Gordon St Garage

    Seems to be a lot of angst being directed at this (probably just due to the name) but really I've found it great to get the drink I've always had to describe at length down to a word. Makes me feel less like a fussy snob, which is a good thing.
    Could you kindly clarify what the drink actually is? Does the 3/4 refer to the volume served or to the steamed milk /foam ratio or something else.....coz it's not obvious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hamm View Post
    Few places you can definitely get a magic from in Perth include Ristretto/Howard St Coffee, or Lowdown (in the old cloisters arcade) and Gordon St Garage

    Seems to be a lot of angst being directed at this (probably just due to the name) but really I've found it great to get the drink I've always had to describe at length down to a word. Makes me feel less like a fussy snob, which is a good thing.
    I've had it at howard st, and lowdown. Though I typically order a small 3/4 long mac (2 double shots with roughly an equal amount of milk). Luckily I am there so often, I just get 'the usual'

    A magic is one double shot I believe (or itls pulled ristretto).

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    Barry, it refers to volume, e.g. 3-quarter full flat white. Aiming for a slightly less milky ratio, but then ideally served in the smaller available cup (usually the 160-ish ml tulip cup)

    Gets the ratio a bit closer to 1:1 coffee:milk, but in a single word instead of a vague description of a tasty beverage.

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    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    OK. I don't know how to ask the question differently......could some please explain what a 'magic' is, in terms of volume of espresso, volume / type of milk?

    Mr Jack, I understand what your typical order is....but I still don't understand what a 'magic' is . A magic can't simply be a double shot....otherwise that would be called a double espresso, or double ristretto (or doppio if you like).

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    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamm View Post
    Barry, it refers to volume, e.g. 3-quarter full flat white. Aiming for a slightly less milky ratio, but then ideally served in the smaller available cup (usually the 160-ish ml tulip cup)

    Gets the ratio a bit closer to 1:1 coffee:milk, but in a single word instead of a vague description of a tasty beverage.
    Thanks mate. Makes perfect sense....just couldn't get anyone to confirm. Probably what I make myself at home too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    I recall the days when ordering a coffee the only question asked was, black or white? life was certainly simpler back then.
    At Patricia in the Melbourne CBD you can order espresso as only black or white, and short or long. It's great coffee there too.

    I read a review of it online when it first opened, and one of the comments was: "Only black or white. That's a bit pretentious."

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    Haha.. I ordered a magic there with no dramas or cheekiness from the other end :P

    Great coffee at Patricia's too, agreed

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    "Three quarter, doppio ristretto flat white" - ain't nobody got time for that!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hamm View Post
    Haha.. I ordered a magic there with no dramas or cheekiness from the other end :P

    Great coffee at Patricia's too, agreed
    Yeah, I've heard people order all different variants with no issues, except for cappucinos, which they don't do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrJack View Post
    I typically order a small 3/4 long mac (2 double shots with roughly an equal amount of milk)..
    ? 2 double shots ?? .. thats 4x30ml = 120 ml of espresso.. + equal milk = 240 ml in the cup
    Reallly ??..that is one large strong coffee !
    ... and nothing like any 'Macchiato' i have ever seen .

    Quote Originally Posted by hamm;
    Barry, it refers to volume, e.g. 3-quarter full flat white. Aiming for a slightly less milky ratio, but then ideally served in the smaller available cup (usually the 160-ish ml tulip cup)
    Gets the ratio a bit closer to 1:1 coffee:milk,
    Now i am confused...
    How can a FW in a 160ml cup get close to a 1:1 ratio ? .. The "magic" would need to be at least a double shot with much less milk ..
    Even a Piccolo in a 90ml glass is still 2:1 ( milk :coffee)

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    Quote Originally Posted by blend52 View Post
    ? 2 double shots ?? .. thats 4x30ml = 120 ml of espresso.. + equal milk = 240 ml in the cup
    Reallly ??..that is one large strong coffee !
    ... and nothing like any 'Macchiato' i have ever seen .


    Now i am confused...
    How can a FW in a 160ml cup get close to a 1:1 ratio ? .. The "magic" would need to be at least a double shot with much less milk ..
    Even a Piccolo in a 90ml glass is still 2:1 ( milk :coffee)
    Well, by double shot I mean 2x22g; perhaps not 2x60mL. Probably closer to 90mL espresso 90mL of milk.

    I once ordered a small long mac in Freo, with an extra shot (I forget if it was 3 or 4 total). Mucho respect from the barista

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    It probably needs to be pointed out before things unravel further - that a 'long mac' in Perth has nothing in common with a macchiato, it's basically a strong flat white. In fact it's probably closer to what a magic is anyway in terms of ratio, particularly when served in the slightly more predictable 'dine in' variety versus the crazy array of different sized takeaway cups available.

    I feel sorry for any new-to-Perth baristas fulfilling an order for a 'large/jumbo long mac topped up'.. I digress. Heavily.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hamm View Post
    It probably needs to be pointed out before things unravel further - that a 'long mac' in Perth has nothing in common with a macchiato, it's basically a strong flat white. In fact it's probably closer to what a magic is anyway in terms of ratio, particularly when served in the slightly more predictable 'dine in' variety versus the crazy array of different sized takeaway cups available.

    I feel sorry for any new-to-Perth baristas fulfilling an order for a 'large/jumbo long mac topped up'.. I digress. Heavily.
    I absolutely cringe when I have to make jumbo long macs day in day out.
    Every time I hand each one of those to a customer, I am thinking to myself, there goes another one of those strong lattes and if I try and explain to them what they have is in fact a strong latte, they may not return and thinking I am one of those guys with baristatude...

    Will see how the public reacts when I offer and explain a magic to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sidewayss View Post
    I absolutely cringe when I have to make jumbo long macs day in day out.
    Every time I hand each one of those to a customer, I am thinking to myself, there goes another one of those strong lattes and if I try and explain to them what they have is in fact a strong latte, they may not return and thinking I am one of those guys with baristatude...

    Will see how the public reacts when I offer and explain a magic to them.
    You may as well try using a sexier name first Gary, maybe a 'Tarrantino' (and tell em it's italian for jumbo long mac)
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    Baristatude? That's a great one!
    I just had a 3/4 magic - only $7.80 which seems reasonable.

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    ¾ magic? Wouldn't that make it 9/16ths of a FW?? Drop the fancy name and just call it a ¾ full FW. Or just make it easier and order a piccolo! Just order a normal coffee!! (Ok, baristatude creepin in )

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    For the first time i've seen a 'Magic' on a menu, it's on the breakfast menu at Gorski & Jones, a restaurant in Fitzroy. They describe it as "Magic ( flat white in a tulip cup made on a double ristretto)".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathon View Post
    I'm curious, when did a 3/4 flat white start to be called a magic?

    It seems, at least in Melbourne, that several cafés call it a magic, but is that new, or have I just started noticing something that's been done for a while?
    It appears to have been "made up" in Melbourne last year if not earlier. Like the Piccolo.
    Don't worry, it's just a short pour double shot of coffee made up with hot milk to be about two thirds full, just as you say. A nice strong coffee if you like it strong.
    I've been a barista for 14 years and I promise you that the people who try to impress or look sophisicated asking for a "magic" are such total wankers that they may well go blind.
    I have to put up with that sort of crap all the time.
    Where are the real people with real values ? Getting scarcer in this city of Melbourne..
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    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    "Last year if not earlier" 1o1!

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    Quote Originally Posted by merlebouton View Post
    It appears to have been "made up" in Melbourne last year if not earlier. Like the Piccolo.
    Don't worry, it's just a short pour double shot of coffee made up with hot milk to be about two thirds full, just as you say. A nice strong coffee if you like it strong.
    Sounds like a decent way to make a milk based coffee. My usual cuppa is a double shot machiatto (not stretched). If I felt like a milkier coffee I'd consider ordering a "magic"... like a convenient shorthand for "doppio ristretto three quarter latte".

    I've been a barista for 14 years and I promise you that the people who try to impress or look sophisicated asking for a "magic" are such total wankers that they may well go blind.
    I have to put up with that sort of crap all the time.
    Where are the real people with real values ? Getting scarcer in this city of Melbourne..
    I think trying to impress anyone anywhere with an order makes you a wanker.. whether its food, coffee, wine, whisky or whatever. Order stuff because you like the taste, not because of how you think someone else will see you.

    Having said that though, if someone orders a "magic", how do you determine whether they're ordering it because it's a convenient shorthand for what they like, or they're ordering it to impress someone? I think this quest for authenticity has led a lot of people to be overly hostile to people or venues they consider "too hipster". And in my view they often throw the baby out with the bathwater.

    I look and am fairly conventional... most days I'm in a suit and tie working a boring job. If i can sit in a cafe and am served a nice coffee, do i really care if the owners, ina an attempt to be creative, stick chairs to the ceiling, or wear skinny jeans and bushy beards, and serve something they decide to call "magic" and wax lyrical about single origin beans? Not particularly.. I'd rather just smile and enjoy my coffee.. there are plenty of truly vile things in this world to save my hostility for and kids being kids isn't one of them.
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    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulacrum View Post
    Sounds like a decent way to make a milk based coffee. My usual cuppa is a double shot machiatto (not stretched). If I felt like a milkier coffee I'd consider ordering a "magic"... like a convenient shorthand for "doppio ristretto three quarter latte".
    It's all down to personal choice, but you'd still sound less fruity asking for a "doppio ristretto three-quarter latte". If you're not so strapped for time than you can't afford a full sentence you could also run with "Can I please have a flat white with a bit less milk?" Most places I've been to cut the shots while they're still syrupy for milk drinks anyway, so I suspect that'd sort you.

    Welcome to CoffeeSnobs, btw

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragunov21 View Post
    It's all down to personal choice, but you'd still sound less fruity asking for a "doppio ristretto three-quarter latte".
    I'm pretty sure you would still sound like a complete knob asking for the above.

    And... "less fruity"?!?!?! Someone please pass me a calendar... I am pretty sure it's now 2014
    Last edited by Vinitasse; 26th June 2014 at 07:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by merlebouton View Post
    It appears to have been "made up" in Melbourne last year if not earlier. Like the Piccolo.
    Don't worry, it's just a short pour double shot of coffee made up with hot milk to be about two thirds full, just as you say. A nice strong coffee if you like it strong.
    I've been a barista for 14 years and I promise you that the people who try to impress or look sophisicated asking for a "magic" are such total wankers that they may well go blind.
    I have to put up with that sort of crap all the time.
    Where are the real people with real values ? Getting scarcer in this city of Melbourne..
    What a load of BS.
    You could order them in Perth 3 years ago.
    My normal cafe will give you something halfway between their long macciatto (4 shots) and a latte (2 shots).

    I order a 3/4 long mac (usually with whatever SO is on). Not because I want to sound sophisticated; but because it gets me a coffee the way I like it!

    I could order four shots of espresso, two of milk, and an empty cup instead, but it would be hard to carry.



    I did once meet a barista who had "invented" a 5 shot milk coffee he called a "Superluggera" or something. That was probably a bit over the top
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrJack View Post
    What a load of BS.
    You could order them in Perth 3 years ago.
    My normal cafe will give you something halfway between their long macciatto (4 shots) and a latte (2 shots).
    I could order four shots of espresso, two of milk, and an empty cup instead, but it would be hard to carry.
    Do they routinely do a four shot drink on the menu?

    I've taken to drinking 'deconstructed lattes' - steamed milk in one cup, espresso in another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hildy View Post
    Do they routinely do a four shot drink on the menu?

    I've taken to drinking 'deconstructed lattes' - steamed milk in one cup, espresso in another.
    Their long mac is apparently 4 shots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinitasse View Post
    I'm pretty sure you would still sound like a complete knob asking for the above.
    Less is a relative term, and making up a name like "Magic" for a pretty bog-standard drinky is really fruity.

    And... "less fruity"?!?!?! Someone please pass me a calendar... I am pretty sure it's now 2014
    Yeah, sorry, I forgot how down with linguistic fashion you are. Unfortunately plebs like me are left to use the detritus of language the cool kids have left behind.

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    I wasn't hinting at how out of fashion your phraseology was but rather, how wrong amd offensive your old school homophobia was.

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    Think I might just let that one sit...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragunov21 View Post
    It's all down to personal choice, but you'd still sound less fruity asking for a "doppio ristretto three-quarter latte". If you're not so strapped for time than you can't afford a full sentence you could also run with "Can I please have a flat white with a bit less milk?" Most places I've been to cut the shots while they're still syrupy for milk drinks anyway, so I suspect that'd sort you.

    Welcome to CoffeeSnobs, btw
    Cheers for the welcome! I've been lurking for so long that it doesn't feel like I'm new.

    I guess I've been searching for a quick way to order my coffee for so long that I can see the benefits of a shorthand. I wish I had a dollar for every time I've had a variant of the following conversation:

    - I'll have a double macchiato please
    - You mean a long macchiato?
    - Yeah but no water please?
    - Confused silence
    - Just a double espresso with a touch of milk.
    - oh ok.. *turns to the barista*.. umm this guy wants like a double long machiato with milk or something
    - hands me a cup full of something that looks and tastes like dishwater.
    *everyone in line behind me looks annoyed, and thinks why can't this wanker just order a normal coffee like everyone else*

    Thankfully I've found a place near work that understood my order straight away. Now they just give me the usual so I don't have to annoy everyone with the stupid conversation.

    I wonder, does your handle come from a fondness from sniper rifles or do we have an ethnic heritage in common?

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    Oh, whups, I should've checked the join date...

    Fair points, those.

    Quote Originally Posted by simulacrum View Post
    I wonder, does your handle come from a fondness from sniper rifles or do we have an ethnic heritage in common?
    I actually get this quite a bit. The name is an old username from back when I used to play Ghost Recon. That said, the language is on my list of things to learn one day.

  49. #49
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    1,376
    Quote Originally Posted by simulacrum View Post
    Cheers for the welcome! I've been lurking for so long that it doesn't feel like I'm new.

    I guess I've been searching for a quick way to order my coffee for so long that I can see the benefits of a shorthand. I wish I had a dollar for every time I've had a variant of the following conversation:

    - I'll have a double macchiato please
    - You mean a long macchiato?
    - Yeah but no water please?
    - Confused silence
    - Just a double espresso with a touch of milk.
    - oh ok.. *turns to the barista*.. umm this guy wants like a double long machiato with milk or something
    - hands me a cup full of something that looks and tastes like dishwater.
    *everyone in line behind me looks annoyed, and thinks why can't this wanker just order a normal coffee like everyone else*

    Thankfully I've found a place near work that understood my order straight away. Now they just give me the usual so I don't have to annoy everyone with the stupid conversation.

    I wonder, does your handle come from a fondness from sniper rifles or do we have an ethnic heritage in common?
    Um, a long mac doesn't normally have water added. Hence the confused silence.

    Sounds like you just want a traditional long mac...

  50. #50
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    21
    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by MrJack View Post
    Um, a long mac doesn't normally have water added. Hence the confused silence.

    Sounds like you just want a traditional long mac...
    I would agree with you, but this was at a place that does stretch their long mac. This was after I had gone through the exercise of just ordering a long mac at all the cafes in the area. To my surprise most of them served me a stretched coffee.. which I really don't like. I think there must be a large number of people (surely all deviants ;P) who want their long macs stretched and have changed what a lot of people consider the standard definition of the beverage.

    To be fair I only get confusion when the person I order the coffee from isn't the barista. When I speak directly to a barista I've been met with either "you mean a long mac the way its supposed to be served!", or "Oh, you mean a double shot short mac!"... I've resigned myself to the fact that whenever I change to a different regular cafe I have to go through the exercise of explaining what I want.



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