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Thread: Barista = drinks + dishwashing + moping + vacuuming ??

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    Member Abhishek's Avatar
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    Barista = drinks + dishwashing + moping + vacuuming ??

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I just came back home after a long shift of dishwashing, vacuuming, moping, and making about 20-30 drinks in a cafe where I work as a part time barista apart from my IT day job.

    I took part time barista work to polish my coffee skills and learn a bit more about this sweet drug, but I feel that there is not enough coffee making work in the evenings and we (baristas) end up doing just cleaning and housekeeping. Is this a normal practice everywhere?

    I understand that a barista is required to keep their area and machines clean but cleaning for 3-4 in a 5 hour shift? I may just sound dumb to many people here, but I'm really curious what you guys think and have experienced as baristas?

    PS: Please forgive my cranky mood.

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    "If you've got time to lean, you've got time to clean."
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    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Are they paying you by the hour or paying you to make 20-30 coffees per shift?

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    In my award, it says that I must do anything lawful which is directed, but not in such a way as to promote deskilling. You could argue that someone hired as a barista, who spends the majority of their time not making coffee, is being deskilled by the management.

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    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Our grandparents used to call it 'opportunity'.
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    I hate it when the barista is moping, baristas should always look happy.
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    Senior Member sidewayss's Avatar
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    Welcome to the realities of barista life.
    Some members of the public as well as baristas to be seem to think it,s all about the glamour of coffee making, but what they don,t realize there are other facets to a barista,s job.
    Not just the cleaning, mopping and washing but also restocking, packing and unpacking chairs and tables, etc.
    In a small cafe, the barista is very much an all rounder. He or she will have to man the til, make coffees, wash and prepare food or stock up the cake display.
    In a higher volume cafe, the barista spends more time making coffees and there,s a runner as well as a cashier employed.
    For anyone starting a job, they should satisfy themselves regarding what is required so that they don,t get dissolutioned.
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    bxp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hildy View Post
    You could argue that someone hired as a barista, who spends the majority of their time not making coffee, is being deskilled by the management.
    Sounds like a casual job and if he was trying that angle the employer would probably start derostering and depaying to avoid the deskiling. I agree with the mantra 'if there's a time to lean there's a time to clean'. What do you think you should be doing?

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    Senior Member Journeyman's Avatar
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    I think most hospitality jobs are like that - lotsa cleaning. 10 years in bars and restaurants and I reckon I cleaned more than I served. And we had 18gal kegs to lug around as well.

    30 coffees in 5 hours isn't much workload. Maybe spend a few seconds more on each coffee to make them stunners and the customer load will increase as the word spreads about the stunning evening coffees at the café? If you're making coffees you can't be cleaning.
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    TC
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    Back in the days of my cafes, the ones who got work were those who were prepared to pull up their sleeves and do whatever was required.

    I think that if you own the cafe you can decide what you do- to your ultimate profit or demise. If you work in one, make yourself the most valuable employee and things will improve in time. If the toilets need to be cleaned- do it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hildy View Post
    In my award, it says that I must do anything lawful which is directed, but not in such a way as to promote deskilling. You could argue that someone hired as a barista, who spends the majority of their time not making coffee, is being deskilled by the management.
    Actually working, whilst at work, would probably count as a skill these days!

    Most occupations come with some kind of menial task, often related to circumstances rather than core skills. In my company (an engineering consultancy), we have a kitchen cleaning roster. Everyone (including management) shares the responsibility). Same goes for cleaning up the boardroom after meetings.

    It would be easy for someone with 30yrs experience and on $300k p.a. to claim it was a poor use of their time and skills, but in my experience everyone recognises it's a necessary inconvenience and just does it.

    Big companies often have cleaning staff to do that type of thing, but for us, the overheads are an unnecessary expense.
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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Crikey Abi, not much sympathy from this lot is there.

    As an aside my wife and I had a meal at a local Italian restaurant/pizza place last Saturday night, they were booked out, one waiter in particular really had her skates on and was very good at what she was doing, as the evening progressed and things started to slow down this girl immediately went into cleaning mode, polishing surfaces, cleaning glass cases etc, we were thoroughly impressed with her work ethic and in particular attention to detail, as well as the fact that the slow down was not a signal to slack off but just the opposite, keeping the place spotless, and it showed.
    The interesting thing is that its invariably females who go above and beyond when it comes to cleaning, we blokes somehow reckon its below us.
    I know this probably doesn't help your cause, guess it is something to reflect on.

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    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hildy View Post
    You could argue that someone hired as a barista, who spends the majority of their time not making coffee, is being deskilled by the management.
    You could, but you'd be a bloody pillock.

    If you feel you're too good for what they're getting you to do and there's somewhere that will make better use of your talents, go there. If not, you aren't good enough to be "too good" for menial tasks.

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    Member Abhishek's Avatar
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    So, I've finally quit! Tonight is my last shift.

    But by looking at the replies, it seems that Barista is not a specialised role since many agree it's ok to do menial tasks. If I were 19yo, studying and working part-time in a cafe - I wouldn't (or shouldn't) mind doing menial tasks, but if I'm a knowledgeable professional wanting to specialise in coffee industry - I'll be taken aback.

    I've not worked much in the hospitality industry, but wherever I've worked (IT sector & Agencies) - if someone is hired for a specific role, we train them in that field and help them develop skills, not expect them to do admin work and answer calls at the reception desk.

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    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    That's fair enough, but how much investment in training are they going to put into a guy who comes in for five hours during their quietest times?

    I think it's more a factor of you being there during the times when the most cleaning/etc would be done than anything else; if you were there during peak then you'd get the experience you're looking for.

    Weekend work an option?

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    Member Abhishek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragunov21 View Post
    I think it's more a factor of you being there during the times when the most cleaning/etc would be done than anything else; if you were there during peak then you'd get the experience you're looking for.
    That's a very good point, and I think majority of the cafes want someone who can brew a good cup but also do all other work in the evening shifts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragunov21 View Post
    Weekend work an option?
    Yes, I think any morning shift will be heaps better for baristas since you get to make a mammoth of drinks. And the best part is when you get to work - everything is stocked, cleaned and ready to go. (Done by night staff )

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    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Bingo.

    tenchars

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abhishek View Post
    So, I've finally quit! Tonight is my last shift.

    But by looking at the replies, it seems that Barista is not a specialised role since many agree it's ok to do menial tasks. If I were 19yo, studying and working part-time in a cafe - I wouldn't (or shouldn't) mind doing menial tasks, but if I'm a knowledgeable professional wanting to specialise in coffee industry - I'll be taken aback.

    I've not worked much in the hospitality industry, but wherever I've worked (IT sector & Agencies) - if someone is hired for a specific role, we train them in that field and help them develop skills, not expect them to do admin work and answer calls at the reception desk.
    Well done Abi, if your unhappy in a position its time to walk.

    As far as Barista being a specialised role, I've always viewed it as a semi skilled position, anyone with average intellect and dexterity can master the skills quite quickly.

    Wikipedia view it in a similar way "a barista is a male or female bartender" Barista - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia most take on the position as a fill in until they can find something better

    I've no doubt my opinion will ruffle a few feathers, just the way I see it, my daughter worked as a barista while at uni, it was a stepping stone, she still pulls a pretty good shot, does/did she view herself as a professional? nope.
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    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Methinks you have put yourself in the firing line.

    Technically speaking 'barista' is the common gender Italian word for bartender......'bar' + 'ist' = (bar + person). (wiktionary).

    Barista , in Australia, is generally a specialised role........ it's just that there are too many people calling themselves 'barista' when all they really are is a
    coffee maker. There are plenty in the industry seeking to sit themselves down in high places, way above where they really belong.

    Most barista job descriptions that I have seen all make mention of work other than just making coffee.

    A highly experienced, competent and knowledgeable barista would look for work in an establishment where the baristas are so busy, making coffee and cleaning is all they do.......;-D
    nor is there anything menial about working together with fellow staff, as a team, taking pride in your work and helping each other; nothing menial about providing
    a clean and efficient environment for the clients to enjoy; nothing menial about having a work ethic where ego is not centre stage but an eye for detail and readiness to put in prevail.

    But you do say you haven't worked much in the hospitality industry.......... maybe it's a case of learning to walk before you run...or fly?

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    Member Abhishek's Avatar
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    I have a slightly different view here - probably because I've always worked in a non-hospitality sector.

    I believe in hiring right people for the right job. As much as I love helping the team when busy, I would certainly not be enthusiastic about doing things that I'm supposed to - on a daily basis. That will take away my interest in doing things better.

    For an instance, if you put a barista on pizza duty - he sure won't make the best pizza. Not because he can't, but because he doesn't need to. Our housekeeping guy sometimes makes takeaway coffees, and he has no inclination to get the milk or crema right.

    I just think that employers should make the job descriptions clear beforehand, to avoid any surprises or disappointments later.
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    Coffee Newbie okitoki's Avatar
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    I remember when I was a graduated accountant, i hated doing the menial tasks like sorting paperworks, fillings, data entries, etc... I wanted to be the finance controller, and do more important stuff because "I am an accountant"... *puff up my chest and pose like a Superhero*
    now I'm in a senior position, and looking at some of the juniors hating and complaining like I was before, I wonder if my previous supervisors also had the same urge to smack them behind their head....

    Oh well, we all had to start off somewhere.
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    Member Abhishek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    As far as Barista being a specialised role, I've always viewed it as a semi skilled position, anyone with average intellect and dexterity can master the skills quite quickly.
    Interesting! That's what I thought too.
    But in a few countries including Canada, Denmark and USA - Barista is a very skilled profession. Recalling from my last trip I met some baristas who were in trade for more than a decade and could talk technical for hours about the TDS in their espresso. That's when I realised that there are two major groups - one who work part-time to support their expenses, and two professionals - who have in-depth knowledge of the end-to-end coffee business.

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    Coffee Newbie okitoki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abhishek View Post
    Interesting! Recalling from my last trip I met some baristas who were in trade for more than a decade and could talk technical for hours about the TDS in their espresso.
    Have you asked them what they had to do when they first started out? even world famous chefs had to start off from the bottom too isnt it?

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    Member Abhishek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    nor is there anything menial about working together with fellow staff, as a team, taking pride in your work and helping each other; nothing menial about providing
    a clean and efficient environment for the clients to enjoy; nothing menial about having a work ethic where ego is not centre stage but an eye for detail and readiness to put in prevail.
    I completely agree.
    Disappointed of the fact that these things are not made clear beforehand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by okitoki View Post
    I remember when I was a graduated accountant, i hated doing the menial tasks like sorting paperworks, fillings, data entries, etc... I wanted to be the finance controller, and do more important stuff because "I am an accountant"... *puff up my chest and pose like a Superhero*
    now I'm in a senior position, and looking at some of the juniors hating and complaining like I was before, I wonder if my previous supervisors also had the same urge to smack them behind their head....
    I sometimes do 'nursing' tasks (change dressings, hook up IV lines, etc) - but if that became more than 50% of my job, I'd shoot myself (or someone else). (and yes, I'm more expensive than the nursing staff now, but as an intern I was cheaper on an hourly rate than many of the nurses.)

    There's nothing wrong with helping out, but I think you have a right for your job to be as described.
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    I'm tipping that the ones who are professionals with in-depth knowledge were unlikely to have started out just making coffee.
    You seem to think that being an IT professional has some bearing on wanting a specific role in hospitality. I don't think IT experience entitles anyone to skip over what the business owner deems necessary for the role.
    Fair enough, you think the job definition should be clearer, but for the rate I am guessing you were earning, what did you realistically expect?

    You seem to want a full on barista job with little or no experience. I cannot see it happening.

    As said earlier, walk then run.
    Last edited by fatboy_1999; 14th January 2014 at 02:44 PM.
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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abhishek View Post
    Interesting! That's what I thought too.
    But in a few countries including Canada, Denmark and USA - Barista is a very skilled profession. Recalling from my last trip I met some baristas who were in trade for more than a decade and could talk technical for hours about the TDS in their espresso.
    Cant comment on Denmark or Canada, however have traveled the US extensively over many years and only on a couple of occasions have I met skilled barista's/baristi that even come close to Aussie standards.

    Re "technical talk" know exactly what you mean, we certainly have a select group here that are able to debate any subject you like to choose ad nauseam, talk is cheap, guess what it all comes down to is, can you pull a decent shot?
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    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Re "technical talk" know exactly what you mean, we certainly have a select group here that are able to debate any subject you like to choose ad nauseam, talk is cheap, guess what it all comes down to is, can you pull a decent shot?
    Agreed, Yelta. The ability to "pull a decent shot"; to have a workflow Modus Operandi that gets the drinks to the customers
    efficiently and maintaining a clean workstation. These things speak way louder than words about Total Dissolved Solids, Specific Gravity and Refractometry
    and a few Other Things that spring to mind.. ( but can be found in certain threads on the wawaweb ;-D )

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abhishek View Post
    Barista is a very skilled profession...
    Yes agreed. At the moment, you are/were learning to make coffee. You're not a barista yet!

    Think Japan and sushi-chef- 7 years and then you might get to call yourself one...

    Many/most who would call themselves baristi in Australia are patently not. Many with the requisite skills and experience don't need a tag. Their coffee speaks for them...

    Baby steps (even if on the end of a broom for a while....)
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    30 coffees a day is better then 0 coffees a day which subsequently you will be doing having left your part time job. I currently only have the opportunity to make and practise my barista skills at home in my own time which I love however I would be happy with a 5 hour weekend shift making only 30 coffees even if it involved cleaning duties. I guess it's been stated but any exposure to making coffee is still exposure and experience non the less. Good luck with your quest my friend.

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    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abhishek View Post
    I completely agree.
    Disappointed of the fact that these things are not made clear beforehand.
    Welcome to the real world :P. Though just will say, plenty of people can talk the talk; I would say that the skillset of a head-barista would be just that - skill based, not just knowledge that can be picked up by anyone passionate enough to spend hours studying.
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    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hildy View Post

    There's nothing wrong with helping out, but I think you have a right for your job to be as described.
    That an entry-level barista role in non-peak hours includes all auxiliary tasks required to keep the place in working order should be common sense unless there are dedicated hands/cleaning staff.

    I suspect it will be there in his contract.

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    Member Abhishek's Avatar
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    I think I'm coming off as a bit negative here guys.

    It's not my intention to complain, but to find out if this is the case with all new baristas. After working for 8 weeks, I thought it is an appropriate time to pop this question in the forum and so I did.

    I do understand that beginners go through hardships, but sometimes they also get used. And from a business point of view, for many, it makes sense to use any resource available at hand (baristas/chef) vs. hiring housekeeping staff at non-peak hours.

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    STS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abhishek View Post
    I just came back home after a long shift of dishwashing, vacuuming, moping, and making about 20-30 drinks in a cafe where I work as a part time barista apart from my IT day job.

    I took part time barista work to polish my coffee skills and learn a bit more about this sweet drug, but I feel that there is not enough coffee making work in the evenings and we (baristas) end up doing just cleaning and housekeeping. Is this a normal practice everywhere?
    I'm interested that you consider yourself a barista. If a barista took a part time job in your industry to polish their self taught IT skills and learn a bit more about computers would you be happy with them calling themselves an IT professional?

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    Member Abhishek's Avatar
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    Hahahahahhaha! Good question I think we are jumping the gun here.

    I think there is a difference in "calling themselves" and "being qualified". I'm not calling myself barista because I can make a cup of coffee; I call myself barista because I'm qualified with an advanced level certificate. I've worked in apprenticeship for 6 months making over a thousand cups. I think that does qualify me a barista.

    To top it off, I grew up in filter coffee household, with coffee plantations in Coorg and Mangalore under my family's name.

    And this is my first job in an independent cafe (I've worked at franchisee before), and I felt the responsibilities were different. That's it.

    And yes, if a qualified developer joins my IT company, we do call him developer not hobbyist coder.
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    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    If that's the case, it sounds like you could probably find a place that better utilises your talents.

    Availability will be your biggest hurdle, I suspect.

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    To be fair, I think the level of skill required for the two roles is not really comparable...
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    TC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abhishek View Post
    I think there is a difference in "calling themselves" and "being qualified". I'm not calling myself barista because I can make a cup of coffee; I call myself barista because I'm qualified with an advanced level certificate.
    Hi Abhi,

    All noble, but no certificate can teach you the skills required to become a barista.

    A course can certainly give you a start but I can assure you that if you do get work at the right place and can develop your coffee knowledge, your experience and your palate, hindsight will come into play many, many years from now. Perhaps you will then be a barista.

    Let's talk about it after your first few hundred thousand fantastic cups.

    Enjoy the ride...It's a blast!

    Chris
    Last edited by TC; 14th January 2014 at 07:20 PM.
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  39. #39
    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrJack View Post
    To be fair, I think the level of skill required for the two roles is not really comparable...
    Perhaps, but they're both skills that must be practised to be able to produce consistent, quality work in a timely manner and that do allow a substantial level of differentiation between "capable" and "mastery". They're similar enough to illustrate a point.

    As and aside, I've seen just as many iriots calling themselves "IT professionals" as "baristas". Usually chuck "security" in the middle right before they whip out Malwarebytes and CCleaner and then find themselves lost and having to call for backup...

  40. #40
    Member Abhishek's Avatar
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    Thanks guys!
    I have heaps to learn and need mentors like you.

    I just finished my last shift at this Cafe. Now off to look for a weekend job close to my home where I can pump out more coffees and be an experienced barista
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abhishek View Post
    ...be an experienced barista
    What...on only 6 months and part time at that?

    Not in my cafe you wouldn't be, I'm sorry. When you look at the top of our industry in regards to people who are Baristas, you are no where near that yet with that experience. Go and have a look at the men and women who are setting the standard for making coffee and you might just be ashamed to call yourself a barista. You will learn a lot from them too so seriously, I recommend meeting them and chatting with them. The really good ones are usually more than happy to talk!

    The nature of hospitality is not at all like the nature of the IT industry. It is not as black and white, I am afraid.

    In hospitality, you will find that you be required to do more than just one specific job. And if that is the case, then be thankful as it will develop skills and interests that you didn't dream of before.

    To me, it seems that people in IT don't have to have any decent people skills what so ever.

    Of course, you could try to prove me wrong with that comment, Abhishek but it would be like me trying to convince you that you are not a barista yet, I feel...

    Keep at it though. Persistence and determination will get you there. And as Chris said...enjoy it!
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  42. #42
    Member Abhishek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoota_gal View Post
    What...on only 6 months and part time at that?

    Not in my cafe you wouldn't be, I'm sorry. When you look at the top of our industry in regards to people who are Baristas, you are no where near that yet with that experience. Go and have a look at the men and women who are setting the standard for making coffee and you might just be ashamed to call yourself a barista.
    I think you've misunderstood my previous message. I meant I'm off to find a weekend job where I can gain more experience. Of course I haven't gained enough experience in 6 months and my part time job.

    And I don't feel ashamed when I call myself a barista. I'm an inexperienced barista - yes! I'm new - yes! But ashamed - no. I take pride in what ever small bit I know about this field and have thirst to learn more.

    Also comparison between different professions are not fair in terms of people skills or talent or experience. It's just like sales people saying lawyers don't know how to sell. Well lawyers don't need to.

    I'm just a newbie seeking advice. And I'm sure there are hundreds of people in CS who are, or were in different fields and have changed to coffee industry.
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  43. #43
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoota_gal View Post
    What...on only 6 months and part time at that?

    Not in my cafe you wouldn't be, I'm sorry. When you look at the top of our industry in regards to people who are Baristas, you are no where near that yet with that experience. Go and have a look at the men and women who are setting the standard for making coffee and you might just be ashamed to call yourself a barista. You will learn a lot from them too so seriously, I recommend meeting them and chatting with them. The really good ones are usually more than happy to talk!

    The nature of hospitality is not at all like the nature of the IT industry. It is not as black and white, I am afraid.

    In hospitality, you will find that you be required to do more than just one specific job. And if that is the case, then be thankful as it will develop skills and interests that you didn't dream of before.

    To me, it seems that people in IT don't have to have any decent people skills what so ever.

    Of course, you could try to prove me wrong with that comment, Abhishek but it would be like me trying to convince you that you are not a barista yet, I feel...

    Keep at it though. Persistence and determination will get you there. And as Chris said...enjoy it!
    Pretty harsh Scoota_gal.
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  44. #44
    Senior Member fatboy_1999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoota_gal View Post
    To me, it seems that people in IT don't have to have any decent people skills what so ever.
    Now Scoots... we're not ALL devoid of people skills.
    In fact, I know one guy who is an IT professional who took on an online coffee business on the side a few years back, and he has some pretty fine people skills.
    Also, the site seems to be doing OK :-)
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  45. #45
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    Is 'Barista' a position/role or a protected professional title with training/experience requirements? I'd have thought it was the former, in which case the argument of experience (and skill level) would seem somewhat irrelevant to who is or should be entitled to use the title.
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  46. #46
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    The general perception probably is that if you're behind a coffee machine, you can call yourself a barista.

    Shame, that, 'cos if you call yourself a barista, the general perception is that you know what you are doing.

    Maybe as a logical extension of the industry, in time, it will be a professional title.
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  47. #47
    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Given that (as far as I'm aware) the only "official" training scheme is Certificate something in make and serve espresso coffee, which means sod-all, I think that snobbery over casual use of the label of "barista" might be a sign of the industry taking itself too seriously.

    When there exists a "legit" RTO offering a nationally-recognised long-term training/apprenticeship course, then perhaps it might be time to revisit the issue.

    Abhishek's not saying he's hot sh-t, nor that he'll become a master in six months, just that he's looking for a training experience that provides sufficient exposure and practice to progress. That's my perspective, anyway. Abhishek, apologies if I've spoken for you out of turn.
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  48. #48
    Member Abhishek's Avatar
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    Actually I'm glad that you explained it this way
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  49. #49
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    Hi Abhishek

    I started using an espresso machine in 1970. First I had to get it to work properly, which no one else had succeeded in doing. It got me hired. Then I had to get used to the madness of university "peak hours". After every 20+ minutes it slacked off and I spent the next 20+ minutes cleaning everything out and getting ready for the next influx of stressed out decaffinated addicts demanding their fix. It paid for me to go through uni, even though I was only part time at the cafe. I kept doing part time coffee stuff for most of the next few years until I received formal training (without a certificate, if one existed in WA back then) in 1979. Since then I have kept my hand in, mainly by being asked by friends from that era to sort their gear out when it seems intractable. I have never worked full time at the trade for more than a couple of weeks at a time (called semester breaks).

    There is no way I would call myself a barista, although I have been told numerous times I can pull a good shot, even by industry insiders. Even at my youthful best I always found it hard to pump them out and maintain quality, although I guess I picked up a few short cuts to help that process along. As a home coffee maker given the time, yes, my coffee is good+.

    Why I am not a barista: see Talk coffee's hundreds of thousands of shots post. That is a barista, IMO the rest are just wannabees.

    Just my 2 cents worth.

    TampIt (BTW, IT professional, for better or worse)
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  50. #50
    Super Moderator scoota_gal's Avatar
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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by Abhishek View Post
    I think you've misunderstood my previous message. I meant I'm off to find a weekend job where I can gain more experience. Of course I haven't gained enough experience in 6 months and my part time job.

    And I don't feel ashamed when I call myself a barista. I'm an inexperienced barista - yes! I'm new - yes! But ashamed - no. I take pride in what ever small bit I know about this field and have thirst to learn more.

    Also comparison between different professions are not fair in terms of people skills or talent or experience. It's just like sales people saying lawyers don't know how to sell. Well lawyers don't need to.

    I'm just a newbie seeking advice. And I'm sure there are hundreds of people in CS who are, or were in different fields and have changed to coffee industry.
    If I have misunderstood you it is because of how your message has come across to me.

    Nice that you take pride in your new found skill...it will set you apart from those who just stand behind a machine and make coffee and those who aim to be worthy of the title of barista. Perhaps we can call you a "Burgeoning Barista"!

    No, I don't agree with your comment about comparing different professions. As I wasn't comparing anything there. I was trying to show you how we all have preconceived ideas about various industries. That one above is mine! Meanwhile, IT is different to Hospitality and in your original post it appeared you were not making any allowances for that. Because if you honestly expect to go into a small hospitality business and think that all you're going to do is one job, then you have well under estimated hospitality and have taken all your preconceived ideas bred in IT into that game. Not always going to work I'm afraid. Hence your first post. Nor am I bagging you for changing your career or developing a new skill set. Good on you for asking the question as to what is considered normal in this industry. To me, it is normal to do lots of things that aren't just making coffee.

    And I reiterate...enjoy it! (and I'm not saying Enjoy IT...haha!)



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