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Thread: Advice on new machine

  1. #1
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    Advice on new machine

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hello

    I am in the market for a new espresso machine for my house. I have been looking for a couple months now and can't make a firm decision. I know that this topic is completely subjective but any opinions or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

    Okay so I have looked at everything from the Dual Boiler Breville all the way to the Rocket Evoluzione. I can spend anything up to about $2500CAD.

    I am fairly new to espresso but am very interested and know I will be for a long time. Would something like the Rocket be way too much machine for my first go? Or could I just grow into it? I don't really want to get a machine and want to upgrade in a year either. Also I would like to one day in the future be able to plumb my machine in.

    I have a Baratza Virtuoso with Preciso burrs already. Would that be okay with an E61?

    Anyways like I said I understand this is completely subjective but would love to hear what everyone thought.

    Thank You


    Daze

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    With your budget you have a huge choice, but without having a complete analysis of your situation, wants, needs, preferred drink, useage profile, space available , etc etc... it would be misleading to pretend anyone can say what would best suit you.
    Have you got "up close and personal" with any of your possible options ? ..if not, you must.
    Even if you have seen your choices, its best to go and discus those with a good (independent ) vendor, who can recommend a machine to suit your requirements, and let you .."try before you buy".
    chokkidog likes this.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by blend52 View Post
    With your budget you have a huge choice, but without having a complete analysis of your situation, wants, needs, preferred drink, useage profile, space available , etc etc... it would be misleading to pretend anyone can say what would best suit you.
    Have you got "up close and personal" with any of your possible options ? ..if not, you must.
    Even if you have seen your choices, its best to go and discus those with a good (independent ) vendor, who can recommend a machine to suit your requirements, and let you .."try before you buy".

    Thank you for your quick reply.

    I have quite a bit of counter space and live alone so can use as much as I want. I usually drink just straight shots but enjoy a milk drink here and there. Like to have people over and be able to make a milk drink for them if need be. I would be making about 3 espresso/day.

    Unfortunately I haven't found anyone in my city who sells Rocket machines. I have played around a bit with the Breville but really have nothing to compare it against.

    I know it would be misleading for anyone to tell me what I need, but I would love to hear opinions of people if they were in a similar situation. I am in no rush and will be taking my time on my decision so any information or ideas are great.


    Thanks

  4. #4
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Welcome to CS Daze,

    For me, it's a little similar to blend52's good suggestions.

    Not knowing what machines are available to you, other than the ones mentioned, and given the value of the $CAD and the relative
    price of machines in Canada, what else is on your list?

    Get yourself to a couple of dealers, compare the look and feel, make sure all your boxes are ticked then go right ahead and purchase
    the machine that rings your bell the most. ;-)

    If you had a line up, I doubt very much if you would buy the Breville, and seems your asking, I certainly wouldn't.

    My first machine was a big step up from my previous coffee making tool...... the teaspoon. :-D
    I could afford it (3k), didn't feel the need for 'stepping stones' and didn't consider much else other than 'does it work, do I like it, could I look at it every
    day..... and still like it?'

    I read as much as I could about my choice but, realising ( as you do ) the subjective and defensive nature of what I read, I applied my criteria
    and was happy to go and take full responsibility for my decision, and although my criteria is a little more particular these days, it hasn't changed that much.

    Don't make a compromise you can't live with.

    p.s. I can't comment on your grinder.
    Last edited by chokkidog; 14th March 2014 at 11:20 AM.

  5. #5
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    Thank you, that was a very good response.

    When I first started my search the Breville was my first choice because of the features and seemed less daunting compared to the e61 machines. But after reading and researching and figuring out what I wanted I started thinking it would be worth spending the money on getting a machine I could have and enjoy for a longer period.

    My list changes everyday it seems. I have also looked at Quick Mill machines and honestly, it didn't jump out and say "buy me". I will have to dig deeper and try to find a store here in Calgary who offer a wider variety so I can see more. I hope I can find a place that sells Rockets because so far in my searches online, they seem to grab my eye most.

    Thanks again guys

  6. #6
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Have you considered an Izzo? I see the Alex III for a range of prices in Canada, close to your budget.

    Canada is like Aus..........BIG :-D and Calgary seems a little light on for a comprehensive range of coffee machine retailers.

    I lived a couple of years in Kalgoorlie, Western Australia, we would think nothing of a 10 hour return drive for a day, on the beach, at Esperance. :-D

    I see that Richmond B.C. is; 'just down the road' ! ;-D

    Even though that might seem a bit daunting I would still encourage you to purchase the machine that you will be happy with

    in 2, 3, 4, or 5 years time.

    High end machines, like the Rocket, are built very well and will last for ages with proper care, maintenance and filtered water.

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    Hello Daze,

    Here in Aus. The Rocket Evoluzione costs about $3,000 which is over twice the price of the Breville DB. I cannot compare their coffee making abilities. I have been using my BDB and Smart Grinder for over 2 years and they are still going very well, but I have never used a Rocket.

    Like you I make about 3 to 5 coffees each day and for about 4 times each year I take my machine to functions where I brew mainly milk drinks for about a dozen friends.

    My next upgrade may be to get a more upmarket grinder to go with my BDB.

    At your usage I can’t see why you would want a plumbed in machine.

    I don’t know how the older technology of the E61 group head controls temp other than it has a water siphon from the boiler. The group head on the BDB is heated by an electric element which is controlled by a PID to within 1deg C of the setting.

    Like chokkidog I started making coffee with a spoon full of instant. Then I went upmarket to a paper filter, then a plunger and a blade grinder before having a run of thermoblock machines before being one of the first buyers of the BDB in Sydney when they were sold by CS Sponsors.

    Daze, you have to do your research, try out as many machines as you can and it is only you who can make the decision of what machine to have on your bench.

    As it is spring over there I hope you are getting good weather.

    I did look up the weather and at the moment in Calgary you have minus 1 while here in Sydney it is plus 26C.

    Barry
    Last edited by Barry_Duncan; 14th March 2014 at 02:00 PM.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Journeyman's Avatar
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    I'd find places that make espresso and take note of what machines they use. Then go find them on the net and see what they offer as standard equipment. Many of the pro machines have baby siblings designed for less workload and/or personal use. Also speak to the baristas and ask what they like and what annoys them about their machine - you can learn a lot about what to look for in general by getting their views on pros and cons.

    My suggestion would be to go beyond single boiler machines and so avoid the inevitable delays while waiting for the machine to re-pressure or re-temp after use.

  9. #9
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Horses for courses Barry, different market different prices.........

    The Rocket EV2 is listed at $2229CAD and the R58 on the same (Canadian) site is $2695CAD, a list price marginally above budget.
    A good haggle and it could be yours, Daze.

    Other Rocket Premium Plus machines in V2 & V3's start as low as $1900CAD.

    The e61 might be 'older' technology but refinements over the years have made them super stable.
    Kees van der Westen still uses them on some of his machines...... endorsement enough.

    There is a reason why they are still used...... they work. They work really well.
    In 53 years there has been only one alternate brew head developed for serious coffee machines.....the saturated group.

    Some people will love the 'consumer appliance' look and function of the Breville and ilk, to others that type will seem invisible, preferring the Italian style
    bling, more reflective of the designs of professional machines.

    No matter what your coffee consumption is............... if you can plumb your machine in, then do it.

    The Breville is a popular machine and for good reason, it works, makes great coffee, Breville seem to listen to consumers
    and develop equipment accordingly, and they are a tricked up machine in a lower price bracket.

    I wonder tho', how many DBD owners would have bought something different if they had $1000-1500 more to spend?
    Last edited by chokkidog; 14th March 2014 at 03:42 PM.

  10. #10
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    Hi Daze,

    I read you...Have a look at my thread in this section What coffee machine shall I buy...I found people gave me a great deal of most useful advise and I appreciate all of it...

    I thought I'd look at the Breville Oracle at first and soon changed my mind...Nice machine but I question how long it will last....I have a Delongi in at the repairers and it has been there longer than I've been able to use the machine....Not bagging Breville but it does point out to me that domestic home appliances probably will not last...Then again they bring out nice new gadgets...and that may press your buttons, changing machines every 2 years...If you don't care for changing your machine for the latest and greatest Twin turbo V16 Quadripple rubberbanded machine with mag wheels, and prefer to get the most out of your coffee with a good machine that will last then I would consider a Mazzer or Macap coffee grinder and single group head machines like Izzo's Diameras Rockets and the like...Saying this you must understand I am new at this myself and seek the answers to the same questions you ask.... I had a look at a Rocket today with a rotary pump and thought It was nice and quite, for me the quieter the machine the better, as it will be in my open planned kitchen...I may have to drill a couple of holes in the bench to plumb it in....The other thing I am looking for is the ability to run either plumbed or from the tank...The Rockets seem to do that nicely...I can't help but to dream about one day owning an Izzo but for me at a price tag close to $A4,000.00 that will have to wait...

    I also find it hard to be able to get my hands on machines to operate...No problems looking in real life but to operate is difficult for me....
    I am also looking at second hand commercial single group head office machines, but that market is a completely different beast IMO...

    I would not be hasty in my decision if I were you, but keep posting, asking the questions and commenting the way you are, go out and look where you can, make your shortlist and keep working it until you settle on a machine that floats your boat...BTW I haven't got myself a decent machine yet, so I'll be watching this thread with a great deal of interest.

    Good luck and let's know what you decide.

    Cheers.

  11. #11
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    I also jumped in the deep end.
    It's cheaper in the long run to grow into a better machine than grow out of a lot of lesser ones.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    Have you considered an Izzo? I see the Alex III for a range of prices in Canada, close to your budget.

    Canada is like Aus..........BIG :-D and Calgary seems a little light on for a comprehensive range of coffee machine retailers.

    I lived a couple of years in Kalgoorlie, Western Australia, we would think nothing of a 10 hour return drive for a day, on the beach, at Esperance. :-D

    I see that Richmond B.C. is; 'just down the road' ! ;-D

    Even though that might seem a bit daunting I would still encourage you to purchase the machine that you will be happy with

    in 2, 3, 4, or 5 years time.

    High end machines, like the Rocket, are built very well and will last for ages with proper care, maintenance and filtered water.
    Hey there chokki... I can certainly appreciate the enthusiastic suggestion but to say that "Canada is like Australia........ BIG" is selling it a wee bit short. As big as Oz is, Canada is 40% bigger and that drive from Calgary AB to Richmond BC would entail a return journey of 1960 kms and would involve crossing both the Cascade and Rocky mountain ranges. It would be an amazing drive though (in warmer weather) and who doesn't like to visit the coast every once in a while?

  13. #13
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Hey Vinitasse,

    Yeah, I checked it out this morning on Google earth, hence the wink!!

    An 11 hour drive ...... a bit like going to Sydney to buy a coffee machine via our little group of hills we call the Snowy Mountains !! And then some!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry_Duncan View Post
    Hello Daze,

    As it is spring over there I hope you are getting good weather.

    I did look up the weather and at the moment in Calgary you have minus 1 while here in Sydney it is plus 26C.

    Barry
    Ha well this is actually really good weather for us at this time of year. A week ago it was -28 so I can hardly complain about -1. 26 sure would be a lot better though.


    And i just looked its an 11 hour drive to Richmond or about a 15 hour flight to Australia. Maybe I'll just come there and you guys can show me around Here in Calgary we have about 7 times the population Richmond does so hopefully if I just keep calling around I can find some leads nearby.

    Thank you for all of your posts. I appreciate all the help in my early explorations into this intriguing matter. I will keep posting in here any questions or developments I have.
    chokkidog likes this.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Erimus's Avatar
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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    You should have a coffee vacation and without any doubt Montreal is one of the best cities in the world to visit, drink coffee and of course good eating. Plenty of activities, a huge jazz festival every year and comedy festival, plus numerous things going on throughout the week during spring and summer. A very vibrant city to say the least, knocks Brisbane and Sydney into a cocked hat imho.
    Getting back to coffee, you wont go wrong in the areas St Denise, Mont Royal, St Laurant and the main drag downtown St Catherine, not forgetting Little Italy. You may even take an espresso machine home with you or find the answer to your question.



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