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Thread: *New Coffee Idea - Want to get some honest feedback - Melbourne Coffee Scene*

  1. #1
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    Lightbulb *New Coffee Idea - Want to get some honest feedback - Melbourne Coffee Scene*

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hey Guys

    Just wanted to throw a idea out there & get some feedback... "Ive been a big follow of CS for years" but never realy post..

    I'm Matt, Based in Melbourne & have worked with coffee for the past 5 years - Worked with Coffee from Sensory Lab, Small Batch & 5 Senses..
    I was thinking of creating a fully interactive online coffee course (video - super expensive to do) for people who want to learn how to make better coffee @ home - we would cover everything espresso, latte art & filter coffee + sell it for cheap... alot of people I talk to struggle to make a good coffee @ home..

    Few Questions:
    #1: What are your Coffee Frustrations @ home
    #2: Would you buy something like this (we'll make sure it rocks)
    #3: What are your thoughts on learn coffee on video?

    Thanks so much I'm excited to hear back - Don't mind if you're brutally honest "I can take it"

  2. #2
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Have you tried this business model before? As you seem to realise ('video - super expensive to do'), even if you've got a great product. you'll be stuck with some hard choices early on (i.e. how many freebies to build awareness / drive people to the site). Risk/ reward in the wrong ratio I reckon mate, but I don't want to be a total naysayer.

    And in a more direct answer to your questions, a comprehensive video tutorial doesn't seem the answer to me....but others may differ.
    smokey likes this.

  3. #3
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    I suppose my first question is, In what way would it serve better than YouTube? Suppose that relates to your third question.

    Yes , I would consider paying for something comprehensive. Question two.
    about to own a lever machine. No frustrations yet. But think that some learning will need to take place!
    question one.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    My thoughts? There are lots of decent free online resources, and any commercial product you create, though it may be better put together (and I mean that; there's room for a great complete set from someone who actually knows what they're doing) is going to be torrented the moment it becomes popular.

    If you do, I'd offer it for five bucks through a streamlined checkout portal so that it's a stupidly easy choice to make to buy it instead. Credit card and PayPal.

    Look at what Louis CK has done if you want an idea of the distribution model.

    *edit* Wait, fully interactive? What are you thinking of?

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    Hey Barry O'Speedwagon, I have a background in online marketing.. more so the inital setup is expensive, lighting studio, camera etc.. thanks fine & your right with the initial setup -- the main Q is would people be willing to educate them selves about coffee or just be happy learning slowly on their own

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    Hey shortblackman
    YouTube has some good stuff - generally the videos are short & don't go into the fine detail, with what I'm thinking of doing is packaging it in a way that is step by step & breaks down the whole process "easy for anyone to understand" so its more a method.. e.g grind/dose/tamp/extraction/mail/pour & all the little tricks in between that make an amazing espresso
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    Hey Dragunov21
    Yeah it would be complete, interactive as you can ask questions & have a conversation (similar to CS) & whats not torrented these days, that doesn't relay matter... people will torrent & usually they aren't paying customers anyway but people will buy too.. my main question is that something you would value and are you frustrated with anything coffee related

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    I presently find youtube and vimeo to be useful sources of free video information.

  9. #9
    Senior Member GrahamK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BareBarista View Post
    ... alot of people I talk to struggle to make a good coffee @ home..

    Few Questions:
    #1: What are your Coffee Frustrations @ home
    #2: Would you buy something like this (we'll make sure it rocks)
    #3: What are your thoughts on learn coffee on video?
    My first comment is, if you really feel there is a market, you should go for it.

    However, if you are hoping for it to be a money spinner, and having considered something similar myself once a number of years ago, (I generate training videos for another product), I realised there was a lot of free info out there, on many coffee vendor websites, YouTube, etc which cover all types of coffee preparation. And there are (espresso) training videos already available that are given out ( I believe for free) when people buy appliance style Espresso machines from the HNs and other suppliers of that ilk. (I'd be interested to know how many people actually watch them). I also suggest you are asking the wrong audience on CS. I doubt anyone who frequents and participates in CoffeeSnobs would have a need for, or be prepared to pay for such a video. The other challenge is the fact that, while people who interact on forums such as CS are usually pretty passionate about their coffee, 95% of people don't really care enough.

    GrahamK

  10. #10
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    The video series by Scottie Callaghan available on the ECA website is good and it's free (even though it only covers the VBM and Giotto machines). As someone also mentioned, there is a plethora of videos on Youtube but not necessarily providing good techniques.

    Perhaps the most valuable part of the coffee course I attended (@JetBlack) was the opportunity to bring my own kit and get direct guidance on using it. That's something you don't get from watching a video. You get to see how to do it the right way but it may not reveal what the learner isn't doing right.
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    I've watched a lot of online videos and don't feel satisfied, which is why I've requested an in-office lesson by our work coffee provider. I feel like I need someone to be able to physically guide me through; to look at the way I tamp or pull the milk and say 'no, you are doing it wrong'. An online video can't tell me if I'm doing it wrong or why, you know?

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    Hmmm.... I could certainly use advice in steps along the way to making coffee, but owing to my own lack of technological prowess I am at this stage unable to , say , post myself making all my mistakes. It was if I could do this that I think someone like you would be able to help me best!

    I would still certainly consider it, though.

  13. #13
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    I personally liked doing all the reading and experimenting myself. I'm online a lot a and reading about hobbies is something I relax with. but I can see a market for your idea if done well.

    I mean, I always think about those silly family car stickers. I personally hated them, but I really appreciate the vision from the family who thought it up and executed the idea.

  14. #14
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    There is just so much about 'making coffee' that a video tutorial would have to cover.

    You could do some generalisations but the devil is in the detail.

    There is so much different gear .... and not just machines.

    How are you going to teach milk texturing, for example? With the myriad of different steam tip / machine / wand / jug
    combos, a video tutorial can't be universal. Have a read of some of the 'I need help' threads in the 'Milk Froth and Bubbles' sub-forum.

    Try and visualise how you could do a video lesson that would answer everyone's questions and provide the magical solution.

    Any one person may think they have all the answers to making great coffee, but they don't.

    It's as simple as that.

    Once you put something concrete down, you open yourself to error, criticism and irrelevancy because you can't
    modify it to suit different applications.

    If you were to make it interactive, how would that work? Would clients have to pay for 'one on one' online time?
    Would clients have to do video selfies of their techniques?

    Which approach to espresso making would you take? Grind dose and tamp? Or weigh, grind, dose weigh, tamp, pour and weigh again?
    Are you 100% sure that your method is the right method? Will it work for everyone?

    Do you want to make pocket money or a living? Even though some of us live in a closeted world of good coffee, the market is still not that big
    when it comes down to how we do it at home and whether we would pay for help. There's a lot of free support already.

    If teaching is in your heart, then wouldn't it be more appropriate to set up a coffee school where you are mobile and can visit people and problem solve on the clients
    equipment, video the lesson and sell the video back to the client as part of the class fee?
    coffeechris and TC like this.

  15. #15
    TOK
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    Smile

    Don't make the mistake of overestimate the level of interest in all things coffee, from what can be seen in internet forums. Does the level of interest you see here translate to real life?

    I think you may already have answered all you need to know:

    Quote Originally Posted by BareBarista View Post
    ...I was thinking of creating a fully interactive online coffee course video
    ....- super expensive to do
    ....would cover everything
    ....+ sell it for cheap...
    The cost of your time and all that is involved in the production, plus real costs incurred, plus lost opportunity to make regular income through other avenues during the process, to eventually "sell it for cheap", doesn't appear to make the best business sense.

    Only you can decide if you are happy to do that, while waiting perhaps a considerable time, for the pendulum to swing either way of it just returning you a bit of pocket money for your trouble OR....turning you into a squillionaire !

    Really....its your call

  16. #16
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Two of my passions are karate and coffee.
    (I think it's a personality thing.)

    I don't think you can learn either properly via video.
    chokkidog likes this.

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    It might work if it accompanied a book (dare I say a coffee table book). The sort of thing people would but as a gift for someone they knew was into coffee. For me I wouldn't buy a video as there's no smell or taste. However, some years ago I did think something explaining common faults and how to fix them would be worthwhile.

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    Cool Thanks decided to ditch the idea - Appreciate it guys, love the honesty
    + I have one last idea which I think is pretty cool... but only if you guys like it..

    When I was living the QLD - I found it hard to find good filter coffee & espresso coffee.. (there were some great cafes - but they just sold the same espresso blends) what do you think about the idea of a Melbourne Coffee Subscription Site where we send you something new & unique every fortnight from the top roasters in Melbourne.. would you pay a extra couple of bucks for something different? you'd have the option of filter or espresso?

    Thanks

  19. #19
    Senior Member GrahamK's Avatar
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    I suspect you were not looking in the right places. There are a plethora of excellent QLD roasters, large such as Di Bella & Merlo's, as well as boutique such as Nelli Coffee, and many of us CSrs roast ourselves, so you are asking the wrong audience. Melbourne is not the centre of the coffee universe fortunately.

    Grahamk

  20. #20
    TC
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    Quote Originally Posted by BareBarista View Post
    what do you think about the idea of a Melbourne Coffee Subscription Site where we send you something new & unique every fortnight from the top roasters in Melbourne..

    Thanks
    Someone has already thought of this one and as I understand it, implemented it too. In addition, many roasters offer their own subscriptions.

    I think that many here roast their own and a goodly proportion that don't are savvy enough to source their own coffee. FWIW, my opinion is that it doesn't have too much in the way of legs.

    Nevertheless, good luck in whatever you choose to do.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Erimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by richard_m_h View Post
    It might work if it accompanied a book (dare I say a coffee table book). The sort of thing people would but as a gift for someone they knew was into coffee. For me I wouldn't buy a video as there's no smell or taste. However, some years ago I did think something explaining common faults and how to fix them would be worthwhile.
    You'll be thinking of this coffee table

    Kramer coffee table book on "Regis & Kathie Lee" - YouTube

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    Someone has already thought of this one and as I understand it, implemented it too. In addition, many roasters offer their own subscriptions.

    I think that many here roast their own and a goodly proportion that don't are savvy enough to source their own coffee. FWIW, my opinion is that it doesn't have too much in the way of legs.

    Nevertheless, good luck in whatever you choose to do.
    Is the subscription thing going well for you?? do alot of people buy coffee online??

  23. #23
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    You want coffee tables?

    coffee tables - Bing Images

    Barry
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  24. #24
    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamK View Post
    Melbourne is not the centre of the coffee universe fortunately.

    Grahamk
    Sez who?

    According to the Herald Sun (27 March 2014): Melbourne has been voted as having the world’s best coffee

    MELBOURNE has beaten Rome, Vienna and Sydney in being judged to have the best coffee in the world.
    Travel website booking.com surveyed more than 1000 of its users from around the world and found Melbourne was well and truly on top when it comes to coffee.
    Barista at Brother Baba Budan Jos Turner said Melbourne baristas take pride in their coffee and it is appreciated by diners and tourists.
    “The tourists love Melbourne because our coffee and cafe culture is a part of our lives and is a very unique thing to Melbourne,” Mr Turner said.
    “There are many great specialty roasters in Melbourne that consistently strive for excellence and keep pushing us all to be the best we can be and there’s a great sense of community here that can’t be found in many other places around the world.”
    In the survey, 301 booking.com guests endorsed Melbourne for coffee, followed by 187 endorsements for Vienna, 116 for Rome and 86 for Lviv in the Ukraine.
    Sydney was 16th on the list with only 20 endorsements for coffee.
    GrahamK likes this.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Erimus's Avatar
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    I'm sure they do nice coffee in Melbourne, just as they do in every major city in the world.
    It's hardly a very scientific survey.

  26. #26
    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brevillista View Post
    I'm sure they do nice coffee in Melbourne, just as they do in every major city in the world.
    It's hardly a very scientific survey.
    Nope... with such a small sample size it really ain't all that scientifically valid at all. But still... with 350% more votes than Lviv... what's not to like?

  27. #27
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinitasse View Post
    Sez who?

    According to the Herald Sun (27 March 2014): Melbourne has been voted as having the world’s best coffee

    MELBOURNE has beaten Rome, Vienna and Sydney in being judged to have the best coffee in the world.
    Travel website booking.com surveyed more than 1000 of its users from around the world and found Melbourne was well and truly on top when it comes to coffee.
    Barista at Brother Baba Budan Jos Turner said Melbourne baristas take pride in their coffee and it is appreciated by diners and tourists.
    “The tourists love Melbourne because our coffee and cafe culture is a part of our lives and is a very unique thing to Melbourne,” Mr Turner said.
    “There are many great specialty roasters in Melbourne that consistently strive for excellence and keep pushing us all to be the best we can be and there’s a great sense of community here that can’t be found in many other places around the world.”
    In the survey, 301 booking.com guests endorsed Melbourne for coffee, followed by 187 endorsements for Vienna, 116 for Rome and 86 for Lviv in the Ukraine.
    Sydney was 16th on the list with only 20 endorsements for coffee.
    Hmmm, Herald Sun, a Melbourne tabloid owned by Rupert Murdoch, touting Melbourne as having the WORDS BEST COFFEE, all very credible.

  28. #28
    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Hmmm, Herald Sun, a Melbourne tabloid owned by Rupert Murdoch, touting Melbourne as having the WORDS BEST COFFEE, all very credible.
    As true as that may be, the survey was conducted by Booking.com B.V. which happens to be based in Amsterdam in the Netherlands, and is supported internationally by 115 offices in 50 countries so it would be rather difficult to attribute any kind of Melbourne bias there.
    Dragunov21 likes this.

  29. #29
    Senior Member GrahamK's Avatar
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    Methinks they doth protest too much

  30. #30
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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Nothing like a bit of parochial drum beating to end the working day.

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