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Thread: Low Mycotoxin Organic Single Bean

  1. #1
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    Low Mycotoxin Organic Single Bean

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi guys, I'm searching for a coffee bean that is low in mycotoxins and organic. I've read that its preferable to stick to a single bean source (not a blend) that is grown at higher altitudes.

    Any suggestions would be appreciated.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Bosco_Lever's Avatar
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    Why?
    Spend a bit more time researching the truth, and do not focus on all the "health" claims that are currently popping up everywhere.
    Google Carlini Coffee Company and read their take on mycotoxins.

    As to "organic", that has to be the most misunderstood term when it comes to food production. It should not be used, instead food should be graded as to the type and level of pesticides used, and whether on not it is genetically modified. The type of fertiliser used is growing the food is irrelevant.

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    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosco_Lever View Post
    Why?
    Spend a bit more time researching the truth, and do not focus on all the "health" claims that are currently popping up everywhere.
    Google Carlini Coffee Company and read their take on mycotoxins.

    As to "organic", that has to be the most misunderstood term when it comes to food production. It should not be used, instead food should be graded as to the type and level of pesticides used, and whether on not it is genetically modified. The type of fertiliser used is growing the food is irrelevant.
    While I happen to agree with much of what you have said, I hardly think that the type of fertiliser used in growing food is irrelevant. What we put into the land does end up in the food that we eat, the water we drink and even in the air that we breathe... therefore it is hardly irrelevant.

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    I think the abstract from a journal article in 1980 sums up mycotoxins in coffee: "Because of the extremely low frequency of findings, the low levels of toxins, and the experimental data showing 70--80% destruction by the roasting process of toxin added to green coffee, further study on this topic has been discontinued"

    Someone must have come across this recently and thought 'low mycotoxin coffee' would be a good marketing ploy. It is impossible to completely avoid mycotoxins, and they really don't matter in small amounts! The irony is that modern farming methods and nasty chemicals have reduced levels in food significantly.

    As for 'organic' however, I do see the benefits but currently my wallet can't keep up with it. I imagine that the overly strict certification process drives prices up.

    If you want some organic coffee try the 'espresso organic' available here on beanbay, I'm sure its good!

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    Senior Member Bosco_Lever's Avatar
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    To be classed as organic, chemical fertilisers are not permitted. Nitrogen, Phosphorous and Potassium (NPK) produced by processing and chemical means are not allowed, even though they are pure and refined products. I see no reason why they are discriminated against. A plant will take what it needs from the soil, and does not care of the source. Over use of fertiliser is a concern, but so are outdated farming practices. A lot of "organic" farmers use fertiliser sourced from chicken manure (for example, organic pelleted fertiliser). These chickens could have been pumped full of antibiotics and hell knows what else, but because the nitrogen is from an animal, it is permitted. Trace elements (absolutely necessary) are permitted, yet they are produced in the same way as your basics (NPK), so the standards are outdated.
    I have done lots of gardening and have tried organic methods extensively. I found they were no better, and in most cases worse. Healthy soil, and the correct amount of fertiliser applied when necessary will always yield the best results. I strongly believe in alternate pesticides and advocate their use. In some areas, you have no choice due to the prevalence of pests.
    What we put into the land is important, but so are farming methods.
    I stand behind my belief that the term organic is outdated and misunderstood. It is nothing more than a marketing term and is over exploited.

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    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosco_Lever View Post
    chemical fertilisers are not permitted. Nitrogen, Phosphorous and Potassium (NPK) produced by processing and chemical means are not allowed, even though they are pure and refined products. I see no reason why they are discriminated against.
    It's because they're chemicals, not natural nutrients.

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    I can see your point though Bosco. I would rather have cheaper 'semi-organic' crops that are pesticide free, or at least use newer alternatives that are less harmful to the ecosystem. I guess the whole 'organic' idea also reflects the impact on the environment. Using natural fertilisers may be more eco friendly than synthesising them with waste products etc? Hmm as a chemist I suddenly feel very hypocritical.

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    Member astr0b0y's Avatar
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    "Natural nutrients" are chemicals too.
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    So horse manure that may have all sorts of veterinary chemicals in it, is good because it is natural.

    However a chemical fertiliser is bad even if it does not have any contaminants that are harmful to humans or the environment.

    I must admit I find many people support all sorts of claims for emotional or self serving reasons rather because there is science that suggests it is true.

    After all aren't mycotoxins natural so should be acceptable in “organic” products?

    Many fungicides would be seen as chemicals so having the in food would then be unacceptable.

    What does organic mean any way?

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    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by don_nairn View Post
    So horse manure that may have all sorts of veterinary chemicals in it, is good because it is natural.

    However a chemical fertiliser is bad even if it does not have any contaminants that are harmful to humans or the environment.

    I must admit I find many people support all sorts of claims for emotional or self serving reasons rather because there is science that suggests it is true.

    After all aren't mycotoxins natural so should be acceptable in “organic” products?

    Many fungicides would be seen as chemicals so having the in food would then be unacceptable.

    What does organic mean any way?
    Uranium occurs naturally too but I doubt if that means it can certified as organic

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    Curare could be considered a “natural” product.

    However it would have little place in a healthy diet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinitasse View Post
    Uranium occurs naturally too but I doubt if that means it can certified as organic
    Hahah I've seen 'organic salt' sold before, which cracks me up because by definition it is an 'inorganic' chemical

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosco_Lever View Post
    Why?
    Spend a bit more time researching the truth, and do not focus on all the "health" claims that are currently popping up everywhere.
    Google Carlini Coffee Company and read their take on mycotoxins.

    As to "organic", that has to be the most misunderstood term when it comes to food production. It should not be used, instead food should be graded as to the type and level of pesticides used, and whether on not it is genetically modified. The type of fertiliser used is growing the food is irrelevant.
    Hey Bosco, Thanks for your feedback. Why? Because I try to be as health conscious as I can and I believe in sourcing the best produce I can afford. The health claims are supported by scientific research and if levels are high they will have an adverse affect on your health.

    The European Food Safety Authority regulates and monitors the levels of toxicity on mycotoxins in their consumables, so I would say it definitely worth investigating where my coffee is sourced from and how it is processed. EFSA Topic: Mycotoxins

    I did run into the Carlini article and it makes perfect sense but it is an opinion piece, and they state that 'I am not a chemist, doctor or scientist – just an engineer and a realist' I'd prefer something a little more solid and scientifically researched. They do close the article with this statement and I think this is gold - NO reliable and easy method available for measurement of mycotoxin levels, nor do the brokers have readings or records available on the lots they sell relating to mycotoxin levels – therefore everyone is “flying blind”. So it suggests that the topic needs to be properly researched and there may be some merit into more studies.

    Bottom line for me is quality. I'm after a well produced bean that is roasted without shortcuts that could potentially cause me future health problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by burr View Post
    I think the abstract from a journal article in 1980 sums up mycotoxins in coffee: "Because of the extremely low frequency of findings, the low levels of toxins, and the experimental data showing 70--80% destruction by the roasting process of toxin added to green coffee, further study on this topic has been discontinued"

    Someone must have come across this recently and thought 'low mycotoxin coffee' would be a good marketing ploy. It is impossible to completely avoid mycotoxins, and they really don't matter in small amounts! The irony is that modern farming methods and nasty chemicals have reduced levels in food significantly.

    As for 'organic' however, I do see the benefits but currently my wallet can't keep up with it. I imagine that the overly strict certification process drives prices up.

    If you want some organic coffee try the 'espresso organic' available here on beanbay, I'm sure its good!
    Hi Burr, thanks for the feedback. The reason for my initial question was that I came across Bulletproof coffee http://bit.ly/QCeRjt

    There is a podcast with Dave Asprey (Bulletproof coffee creator) and coffee expert Dan Cox that is pretty interesting and explains a lot more about mycotoxins and coffee stuff in general #100 Coffee Titan Dan Cox on Caffeine, Coffee, and Mycotoxins

    Whether it's BS or not is another thing altogether but he does draw on research to prove his point, and in my opinion it's worth finding out more about it. In Europe toxicity of mycotoxins are regulated so surely it's worth considering - as you rightly stated small amounts are harmless so some sort of regulation would be welcomed. I think the food industry at least owes us good pure coffee!

    I'll definitely give the 'Espresso Organic' a try.

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    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juanca View Post
    The health claims are supported by scientific research .

    ................ the topic needs to be properly researched and there may be some merit into more studies.
    juanca, it may help if you can quote the sources for the 'scientific research'.

  16. #16
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juanca View Post
    I think the food industry at least owes us good pure coffee!
    Why do struggling, poor, third world farmers owe the wealthy 5% of the world population?
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    Thanks for the responses

    Thanks everyone for you responses and feedback so far.

    Seems like I've opened 2 cans of worms!!

    I recently came across Bulletproof Coffee Recipe: How to Make Your Coffee Bulletproof®…And Your Morning Too | The Bulletproof Executive and this is where my interest in mycotoxins came from.

    This is a podcast that relates to coffee which you all might enjoy #100 Coffee Titan Dan Cox on Caffeine, Coffee, and Mycotoxins

    The bottom line for me is to find a quality sourced bean that is roasted without shortcuts that may lead to inferior taste and/or put my body through any unnecessary dramas.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astr0b0y View Post
    "Natural nutrients" are chemicals too.
    Tongue, cheek, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    juanca, it may help if you can quote the sources for the 'scientific research'.
    I'm not making any unfounded claims myself. Please let m make that clear (I just want a good clean cup of coffee!) - I'm basically said that there are concerns - that have been brought up and researched by others - about mycotoxin levels in coffee and food in general. I'm not a researcher but it's not hard to come across on the net if you need to see some.

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    Quote Originally Posted by juanca View Post
    Whether it's BS or not is another thing altogether
    Had a quick look at the website, and I'm going with option A.

    Some people will say anything to sell their product.

  21. #21
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    My view on this and all the other fads?

    Having come from a farming background ( grape growing ), I am well aware of the role western socio-political economics has played in changing the way
    food production is being perceived in the western consumer market.

    I could write a lengthy discourse on this, one of my favourite topics but listing some points might be more helpful.

    * I despise chemicals.

    * the rise of the organic food market in the west, over the last 30 or so years, is a product of the growth in wealth in western society.

    * wealth gives us choice. Third world people are often denied choice through extreme poverty and lack of education ( also wealth related).

    * when we exercise choice someone wins and someone loses:

    a) When quinoa ( so called 'superfood') was first introduced into the western diet it was taken from the
    local food bank where it was traditionally grown, leading to food shortages.

    b) The production of bio fuel removes third world agricultural land from food production and
    gives it over to western consumption.

    c) The western market demand for sea food has removed traditional ownership of fishing grounds from
    some African communities leaving only heads and carcases for local consumption.

    d) The plundering of the third world often involves corruption at high levels.

    * it is a stipulation of Fairtrade that coffee produced under it's branding is 'organic' or 'sustainable'.

    * coffee yields produced organically/ sustainably are lower than non organic coffee. Although this is acceptable in a theoretical sense the practical outcome
    means that real incomes can be actually decreased under Fairtrade.

    * 'pure food' and 'natural food' are opposites.......purity is obtained by processing.

    * organic food cannot be economically produced without the use of high concentrations of toxic natural products... e.g. sulphur and copper sulphate.

    * I cannot afford to buy 'organic' food. The high cost of low production and certification, an industry in itself, is passed on to the consumer.

    * I would rather eat food from a farm that has used roundup on a pest host plant and no pesticide on their crop
    than buy food from the organic farm that has the host plant and the pest and has used a truck load of pesticide on the crop to control the pest.

    * the food I grow at home is done totally without applied chemicals. Only pooh from an organic egg farm, ground limestone, blood and bone and coffee grounds;
    if my crops ever gets disease I'll pull it out and burn it.

    * the word 'organic' has become more of a marketing trademark and is now diluted in it's meaning. Similar to how the word 'premium' has been devalued by the
    wine marketing industry.

    The true cost of sustainability is unacceptable to western society as it would mean the elevation of the producers to a similar standard of living as the consumer.

    The west will never pay the premium.
    Last edited by chokkidog; 22nd April 2014 at 10:50 PM. Reason: corrections and stuff
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  22. #22
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juanca View Post
    I'm not making any unfounded claims myself. Please let m(e) make that clear
    No, and nor is my post aimed at you personally!! :-D

    In broad terms it's a highly complex topic that needs less polarising politics and more understanding.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    * I despise chemicals.
    Serious question, no disrespect intended; what does this actually mean to you?

    I ask because I'm open to the fact that there may exist a position that includes valid concerns over common agricultural chemicals but can't be tricked into criticising the use of Dihydrogen Monoxide, but if there is it's pretty well hidden amongst those with chemophobia.
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  24. #24
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    Some alternate views on the topic...
    Bulletproof coffee: scam or awesome? - Paleohacks

    Mal.

  25. #25
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    No probs, DG.

    Fair question.

    The statement is a little broad but in reality it's more specific.

    As mentioned, I spent 20 years in the viticulture industry; half as an employee and half as a lessee/operator.

    The use of agrochemicals was the worst aspect of the work. It was unavoidable and even tho' I used (mostly)

    registered organic products and worked on soil health to produce healthy, strong, resilient plant stock rather than foliar or irrigation applied fertiliser,

    I just never felt comfortable with chemicals. The last 5 years I used no herbicide.

    The smell, the need for personal protection, cabins and activated charcoal filters on my tractors,

    the protocols and legals around chemical purchase, use and disposal of containers and the knowledge that ultimately what I was doing was unnatural

    and leading to further compromise of the environment (monoculture of any kind is 'unnatural'), all contributed to how I felt.

    My practices were groundbreaking and now copied and widely adopted and did result in a lower chemical load and highest quality fruit with excellent ferments.
    .......... but I still hated chemicals.

    My vineyard was burnt in the Black Saturday fires and the business failed trying to recoup my losses 3 years after the fires but I don't miss the constant

    worry over weather and the disease pressure and load that it brought which resulted in the constant need for chemical applications.

    And they cost a truckload of cash!!

    I guess it's a bit like people who work in chicken processing factories don't like chicken........;-)

  26. #26
    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Oh, something I completely forgot; apparently the Bulletproof Coffee guy, even if mycotoxins were an issue, is still so full of shit it's turned his eyes brown.

    For context, this is an interview between Joe Rogan, and Dr Rhonda Patrick, a BioMed Ph.D

    tl;dr, In one test of four coffees, none (including Bulletproof) showed presence of mycotoxin, low-mycotoxin coffees are not a rare thing and the guy pushing "low-mycotoxin coffee" as a serious issue refuses to make his testing methods and results public.



    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    -snip-
    I get that, and I can understand it somewhat in a specific context, but what I have a problem with is the idea that synthetic chemicals are inherently worse than naturally-occurring ones (beyond the fact that chemical synthesis allows compounds of higher concentration and less stability to be produced).

    When you artificially synthesise a chemical compound, you are turning one thing into another by providing a suitable environment for that compound to form. When a plant synthesises a compound, the same thing is occurring, but because the process is slightly more obfuscated, it's treated by a lot of people as something that happens "naturally" or by magic and is treated as somehow better (despite being of lower purity).

    Bringing it back to viticulture, I can't claim any great personal knowledge (besides that mixing up caustic is shit) and I totally understand the distaste for certain chemicals and agricultural practices, but I can only understand it on a case-by-case basis, not based on some blanket hatred for "chemicals" (which I've still never seen usefully defined in this context, since a chemical is usually just an isolated compound)

    If you (anyone) feels that the less artificial inteference with the plant, the better, that's something I can understand, but chicken-poo is just a few steps down from multi-K on the interference scale, you know?

    If aerosolising poo was the most efficient method of delivery, you'd still be in a sealed cabin with filters, you'd still hate the smell and it would still be hazardous to your health to compromise your protective controls. Even if the chickens were organic.
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  27. #27
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Oh and p.s. Dg.

    I have no chemophobia and am quite happy to use Dihydrogen Monoxide in my daily life, in fact I use about 100 litres of it a day, although not quite pure.

    Amongst other things I wash my clothes in it, brush my teeth with it, cook my food in it and , GASP, even add it to my coffee. ;-)

  28. #28
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragunov21 View Post
    I get that, and I can understand it somewhat in a specific context, but what I have a problem with is the idea that synthetic chemicals are inherently worse than naturally-occurring ones (beyond the fact that chemical synthesis allows compounds of higher concentration and less stability to be produced).

    When you artificially synthesise a chemical compound, you are turning one thing into another by providing a suitable environment for that compound to form. When a plant synthesises a compound, the same thing is occurring, but because the process is slightly more obfuscated, it's treated by a lot of people as something that happens "naturally" or by magic and is treated as somehow better (despite being of lower purity).

    Bringing it back to viticulture, I can't claim any great personal knowledge (besides that mixing up caustic is shit) and I totally understand the distaste for certain chemicals and agricultural practices, but I can only understand it on a case-by-case basis, not based on some blanket hatred for "chemicals" (which I've still never seen usefully defined in this context, since a chemical is usually just an isolated compound)

    If you (anyone) feels that the less artificial inteference with the plant, the better, that's something I can understand, but chicken-poo is just a few steps down from multi-K on the interference scale, you know?

    If aerosolising poo was the most efficient method of delivery, you'd still be in a sealed cabin with filters, you'd still hate the smell and it would still be hazardous to your health to compromise your protective controls. Even if the chickens were organic.
    Yawn........... yawn again...........still yawning.

  29. #29
    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    There's no need to be a dick, mate.

    I never said your position was unreasonable and most of that wasn't directed at you specifically. Thanks, though.

  30. #30
    Senior Member smokey's Avatar
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    Dragunov, this is a brilliant interview and enlightening.

    "this is an interview between Joe Rogan, and Dr Rhonda Patrick, a BioMed Ph.D"

    Just on the topic, I think it is this same OP who has posted on SweetMaria's forum with the same arguments, is this him just pushing Bulletproof coffee here at CS? Same arguments and same attitude of ignoring logic.

    Maybe managers can look into this?

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    I wondered the same thing smokey...

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokey View Post
    Dragunov, this is a brilliant interview and enlightening.
    If you haven't already, check out his interview with Peter Giuliano (from the SCAA). Two hours of interesting chatter that covers everything from the basics of extraction to terroir/genetics and history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    No, and nor is my post aimed at you personally!! :-D

    In broad terms it's a highly complex topic that needs less polarising politics and more understanding.
    Cheers Chokkidog - it definitely is a complex topic and no offence was taken I appreciate your detailed response and highly respect your experience in agriculture.

    So the mycotoxin issue seems quite contentious and I posted my original question because I thought someone on the blog might know a good source of toxin free/low coffee. Bottom line is that it's not regulated (At least not here in Australia) and perhaps not highly harmful for consumption. It may be an non-issue after all.

    So I'll go back to my original question - With your coffee knowledge and farming experience can you point me in the direction of a clean coffee bean that is sourced from a reputable/ethical grower or part of the world where they do things well, and is roasted in a way that would minimise the chance of any unnecessary toxins etc?

    Thanks in advance

  34. #34
    Senior Member smokey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juanca View Post
    So I'll go back to my original question - With your coffee knowledge and farming experience can you point me in the direction of a clean coffee bean that is sourced from a reputable/ethical grower or part of the world where they do things well, and is roasted in a way that would minimise the chance of any unnecessary toxins etc?
    First off juanca, I would like to clear up a question I have running around in my head after reading your posts a day after reading this same argument on the Sweet Maria's forum.

    Are you kuzia60 from the Sweet Maria's forum, and is this you posting here:-
    Sweet Maria's Web Forum • View topic - Mold-free coffee

    To your question above, if you really want mycotoxin free coffee beans there is really only the one way for you, get them tested yourself. I have noted from your posts above that you are not interested in the advice given thus far and keep asking the same question, I think that this is about the only way you will be fully satisfied.

    I am not having a go at you, your posts though are very similar to kuzia60.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokey View Post
    First off juanca, I would like to clear up a question I have running around in my head after reading your posts a day after reading this same argument on the Sweet Maria's forum.

    Are you kuzia60 from the Sweet Maria's forum, and is this you posting here:-
    Sweet Maria's Web Forum • View topic - Mold-free coffee

    To your question above, if you really want mycotoxin free coffee beans there is really only the one way for you, get them tested yourself. I have noted from your posts above that you are not interested in the advice given thus far and keep asking the same question, I think that this is about the only way you will be fully satisfied.

    I am not having a go at you, your posts though are very similar to kuzia60.
    Hi Smokey, No I'm not the other user you're referring to I've got no idea who they are - no offence taken.

    Please read my above question again as it differs from my original one. As I don't know much about the topic, I threw a specific question out there to see if there were any coffee suppliers that comply with what I'm after and if anyone knew of them. I've realised that there are no regulations regarding the testing of mycotoxin levels in coffee in Australia, therefore suppliers don't stock it and thats cool. I'm not so hung up on it that I'd go the trouble/expense of testing it myself.

    So my 'general' question/request remains as stated above. I'm very interested in coffee advice and that's why I'm here, but no one is actually recommending or advising me on what coffee I could possibly try - So I'm confused as why you'd say I'm not listening?

    So far only Burr has suggested I try 'espresso organic' and everyone else has gone off on tangents and not given me any coffee advice.

    I'm looking for an answer like: "Stick to coffee from X part of the world as they usually keep simple clean farming methods and don't tamper too much with with their soil etc. and have sound shipping methods blah blah blah and best keep away from coffee from Blah blah blah........so I recommend you try X and Y" I'm not after lab reports or research ha ha

    I hope you get my drift and if you have any suggestions please let me know as I'd love for someone to actually talk to me about coffee!
    Last edited by juanca; 23rd April 2014 at 05:05 PM.

  36. #36
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    juanca, thanks for clearing that up for me, I was curious and had to run with it, and I'm glad you didn't take offense.

    I would imagine that 'organic' would imply 'clean' to the point of being about the best we can expect from anywhere. If it isn't certified organic either the farmer can't afford the expense of certification, or that they use chemicals somewhere from start to finish.

    If I had cancer and needed to stay away from harmful chemicals, I would probably avoid anything not organic.

    And I know 'organic' will still have toxic chemicals somewhere in the chain from gowning to harvesting to importing etc. but I think its about the best we have to go on. Unless you grow it yourself.

    Hey, you looked into the Australian beans? Most state that they use no chemicals.

  37. #37
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    There aren't any hard and fast rules that apply to this juanca.

    The only guidelines that I could /would offer are not to purchase coffee from large coffee roasters who access commodity
    grade coffee and sell it in supermarkets.

    Stick to roasters who purchase 'specialty grade coffee' with cupping scores over 80. Visible mould is a defect. Ask to see samples of green beans.

    Mould in general is detectable by smell and would be evident in a large quantity of coffee like a 10 kg bucket, 60kg bag or 1000kg bulk pack.

    The best way is to approach roasters and ask them about their origins then google the farm, finca, fazenda, estate, co-op or washing station and do your own research.

    Their is a wealth of info available. Google green bean importers wholesalers and check them out.

    I, for one, would never make a recommendation of the nature that you seek. I cannot possibly presume to know, let alone control, every step
    of every process on any coffee farm.

    Most of the good coffee is grown on steep, high mountain sides where it is not possible to use machinery, where the farmers are so poor
    that they cannot afford soil ameliorates that are not produced on the farm itself. Farmers cannot afford an arsenal of chemical
    control products and have vastly different farming practices from conventional western agriculture.

    You can also spend time tracking weather in growing regions and not purchase coffee from places it where rains,
    you could also google earth coffee processing mills and check out their roof structures etc. .... and I'm being serious.

    My personal belief about the mycotoxin thing is similar to Sweet Maria's as expressed in the above link provided by smokey. ( thanks smokey)
    My opinion is that as far as the coffee most CSers would be interested in goes, the mycotoxin 'issue' is BS.
    smokey likes this.

  38. #38
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    Thanks Smokey and Chokkidog - I guess I'll have a poke around one of the many boutique coffee roasters around Melbourne and have a chat with the staff.
    I recently read a good article in Broadsheet about Andrew Kelly of Small Batch Roasting Co. He travels far and wide to source his beans so that might be a good place to start.

    Just in case you guys were wondering - I'm not super sensitive or have mould intolerances/allergies or anything like that so I hope I don't sound like a fairy!
    I simply like to be aware of what I'm consuming and it reassuring that by asking around I can find myself a good 'bang for buck' quality product. Who's got time for cheap and nasty coffee?!

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokey View Post
    juanca, thanks for clearing that up for me, I was curious and had to run with it, and I'm glad you didn't take offense.

    I would imagine that 'organic' would imply 'clean' to the point of being about the best we can expect from anywhere. If it isn't certified organic either the farmer can't afford the expense of certification, or that they use chemicals somewhere from start to finish.

    If I had cancer and needed to stay away from harmful chemicals, I would probably avoid anything not organic.

    And I know 'organic' will still have toxic chemicals somewhere in the chain from gowning to harvesting to importing etc. but I think its about the best we have to go on. Unless you grow it yourself.

    Hey, you looked into the Australian beans? Most state that they use no chemicals.
    To be honest I can't afford organic anything these days but I just try and do homework and find the best alternative whenever possible.

    Aussie beans sound interesting and I think Aussie farmers would be pretty legit with their methods - I'll try and track some down and give them a try.

    Cheers

  40. #40
    Senior Member smokey's Avatar
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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by juanca View Post
    To be honest I can't afford organic anything these days but I just try and do homework and find the best alternative whenever possible.

    Aussie beans sound interesting and I think Aussie farmers would be pretty legit with their methods - I'll try and track some down and give them a try.

    Cheers
    Juanca, would you please post your findings here? I am sure many people have been reading/lurking over this thread and have a similar interest to yours.



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