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Thread: Anyone know current details about Coffee Logic International?

  1. #1
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    Anyone know current details about Coffee Logic International?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi all,
    I am looking into the options available in Australia for somone interested in increasing their roasting knowledge and skills (transitioning from a backyard DIY to a small-scale hobby roaster set up). I am aware of Wolff Coffee Roasters in QLD but had also been recommended to investigate Coffee Logic Intl. (Sydney).
    However, I cannot find any up to date info on CLI that is newer than mid 2013. Their website account is suspended and all their social media platforms are stagnant.
    Does anyone know what the story is with them, and perhaps, does anyone have any advice for someone living in Perth, looking to upskill in this field?
    Any info would be greatly appreciated.
    with thanks,
    Matt

  2. #2
    Senior Member GrahamK's Avatar
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    Hi Matt,

    I cannot assist re Coffee Logic Intl. I have heard Wolff Coffee Roasters in QLD is a good course, especially as I believe he does go through sensory aspects for tasting etc. However the courses are not cheap, especially if you already have some level of knowledge and expertise, you still have to go through and pay for the basics.

    However if you cannot find anything suitable, and you already have your own roaster and a level of knowledge, you may be interested in an online (USA based) course I used, which is not massively expensive, and does provide a reasonable level of understanding and a different perspective to what you tend to get via the CS and other coffee forums. They are quite well known in the USA coffee world, but a non CS sponsor, so if you wish further information then PM me. From a value for money perspective I found it to be average, but I did learn a fair amount, especially as it talks you through the sensory aspects of manual roasting as opposed to relying on too much technology. It does however assume access to a professional style drum roaster rather than the domestic or fluid bed varieties. They do also have a basic level of assessment of your learning through a set of online tests with an attendance style certificate, although obviously no official professional accreditation.

    GrahamK
    Last edited by GrahamK; 5th June 2014 at 04:32 PM. Reason: Grammar

  3. #3
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    Mark at Coffee Roasters Australia does a one day course as well.

    Agree with GrahamK as to the online coffee roasting course, plenty of good bits to read and watch and developers tell me they are going to work harder at keeping new content flowing. Plenty of technical reading online if you delve deep enough, then out to your roaster you go and sacrifice some beans with your latest information. Curse, swear, tear your hair out but at least you start to understand why you have to throw the beans in the compost. Then do it all over again, make a small adjustment, and take lots of notes. Lots of people on CS with good knowledge so don't be afraid to ask questions.

    Chester
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    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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  5. #5
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    The roasting game is full of shifting goal posts which makes running courses that would suit everyone very difficult

    to develop. You mention "small scale hobby roaster set up" do you have an idea of what equipment you might use?

    What sort of volumes you would be aiming at? Chester has pretty well summed it up, a lot of trial and error is involved.

    Knowing more about your gear will help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic_couple22 View Post
    Mark at Coffee Roasters Australia does a one day course as well.
    Would be a great starting point. However, there is no way that Mark Beattie could ever impart all his knowledge in one day. Unless it was one of those Northern hemisphere days where the sun does not set for six months
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    Guys - really appreciate all the feedback and suggestions. I have good friends at both Fiori and Pound who offer lots if insight too. I have briefly looked at Roastmax roasters in Adelaide and they have also been a great help. I would be aiming for about 30kg/week but would have to fit it into my weekend or week night as I would continue to work full time.

    Matt

  8. #8
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    A starting point is all you could ever hope for.

    Roasting is learnt over a long period of time as different beans, different customer requirements,

    varying ambient atmospheric conditions and a few other variables are encountered that can only be solved on a roaster's own equipment,

    in their own environment, using the beans that they have.

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    Watched some good info on coffeeshrubs, worth checking out as well.

  10. #10
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Cheers, I'll check it out too....... learning never ends! :-)

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    thanks once again. Matt

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    Mark is good. Did his into course in 2012??

    However he has not run any of his intermediate courses since. Again, no SCAA or AASCA accreditation, but you can worry about that later.

  13. #13
    TOK
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    In principle, I don’t believe that any course offering an “Accreditation” will do anything for you other than to provide a possible competitive edge to win over a client, when you are competing with another roaster, who may not have any “accreditation”. It probably won’t make anyone a better roaster, which I believe is more dependent on the individual’s capability or willingness to achieve, experiment and learn, his individual skill set and his personal drive.
    That is to say, if there were 2 competing courses and 1 offered Accreditation and the other didn’t, you would have to seriously weigh up which course offers a better solution irrespective that one offers this “accreditation”, and you would also have to weigh up if you would pay more for a course offering accreditation, if the two courses were perceived to offer a similar outcome.
    For the rest if it, if the trainer the OP has been seeking appears to be gone, I would be sticking to the well established roasting plant vendors and trainers that have already been mentioned, who have been around for a long time and are well known. There is one other that has been around for a long time and hasn’t been mentioned and that is Will Notaras in Sydney (last time I heard). I may be able to dig up his contact details if asked, but I am afraid I have no idea how “good” he is or not. But he does represent someone else that may be able to help you and has been around a while.
    Post # 8 above is otherwise, pretty well spot on and you need to *waste* an awful lot of coffee just to start…. Think on how much coffee you will use to run your equipment for a “training” day just to experiment for yourself. You have to learn your own equipment and that includes to work out if it has been installed and set up properly. When I have consulted to newcomers to roasting, I have spent time at their roasteries actually roasting with them on their equipment and nutting out the setup, then commissioning changes if required to improve its operation. There is more to roasting than tipping beans in the top !
    Hope that helps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartlettribe View Post
    I would be aiming for about 30kg/week but would have to fit it into my weekend or week night as I would continue to work full time.
    The economics don't seem to work out for this sort of scale - either the capital costs, or the labour costs, aren't being priced right. (If you're using a 2kg machine and doing one batch per hour including cooldown, that's $8/kg in labour costs at minimum wage; if you're using a 10kg machine, it's $1.50/kg, but you have to pay off the machine.)

  15. #15
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    If you're aiming to do 30kgs/week in your 'spare' time then anything less than a 5 kg machine will

    find you up at all hours of most nights.

    Without a destoner that quantity will have to be meticulously destoned by hand. It will have to be

    packaged into bags that need stamping/labelling. Roasting should only be a < 50% time factor of your available hours.

    Hobbyists shouldn't factor in a dollar time value.... it is not the point of having a hobby.

    @ 3.6 kgs of roasted per batch ( in a 5 kg roaster / 4.5 kg of green) that's 8+ roasts for your 30,

    with preheat time that's approx 3+ hours work, then destoning by hand, properly, 100 gms at a time over your lap........

    Sell someone a stone or metal that breaks their grinder................???? Not a good idea.



    30 kgs of roast is also a lot to sell, more than you might think...........if you have to go and find clients.

    If you get regular clients then they will mostly want the bean or blend that you have done, that they like....... this means

    tying up capital in bean stock so that you can provide consistency; if you continue to chop and change you will be narrowing

    your potential market until you have a reputation that most roasters would envy. If you go for an online shop.........

    get in the queue...... there are dozens and not a lot of people purchase this way and then mostly from high profile roasters.

    If you are doing markets.......they are full of browsers and they will eat into your weekend time for roasting;

    any commercial clients might get a bit antsy at your hobbyist status and inability to service the account...........

    family and friends won't consume 30 kgs/week.

    If you can get all the factors in line, learn how to roast, how to discern and correct faults, are prepared to bin the occasional roast,

    especially during start-up, and above all, produce an outstanding product week in and week out, you'll be fine. ;-D

  16. #16
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    oh............I almost forgot. If you're selling coffee then you will have to be a registered food producer with your council

    and all that that entails with storage, work areas, labelling laws, separate domestic/work areas, hand washing and $$$$$ etc. ;-D
    Last edited by chokkidog; 22nd June 2014 at 01:20 PM.

  17. #17
    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    I have to agree that 30kg a week for family and friends is a bit ambitious, purchase your roaster and learn the ins and outs of roasting, there is so much to learn, develop some blends during the learning process and give some to friends and family to gauge their preferences.
    I have been doing this for several years now, the volumes I roast pays for my hobby and it is not intrusive on my time, once the volume gets to a level where you are committed to the roastery for long periods of time it is no longer a hobby but a committment.
    The monetary gain is not the aim of my roasting, it is a means to spend more time doing what I have a passion for and sharing the fruits of the passion with family and friends!



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