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Thread: Cups - oz vs ml

  1. #1
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Cups - oz vs ml

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I dropped into a local cafe this afternoon that I've only visited twice before.
    I asked for a flat white and got the usual response "what size?".
    My usual response is "what sizes have you got?".
    They usually say something like "regular, medium or large".
    Then I say "how many mls in your regular?", at which point they usually grab the cups to show me.

    Today the PBTM also added while showing me, that the medium was 10oz or so he thought, it might have been 8.

    I opted for the smallest one, which turned out to be 6oz after he'd had time to think about it.

    Now I know I'm an old fart, but even I, after 40 years of use, find it easier to talk metric rather than imperial.

    The guy today was no older than my children. He was obviously born metric. Does he even know what an ounce is or is it a parroted response?

    Now for the questions I started this thread for....

    Is it illegal to quote coffee cup sizes in ounces?
    Why do some people in the coffee industry in Australia still us oz?
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  2. #2
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Takeaway cups are purchased as... 8oz, 12oz, 16oz (20oz + 24oz for brewed coffee stateside)

    It annoys the heck out of me too (as a metric baby) and I mentally convert to ml whenever some one talks about them... 240ml for 8oz, add 50% for 12oz, double 240ml for 16oz.


    I've asked the question of "why?" to my suppliers too and everyone shrugs.

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    TC
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    Even weirder that our tyres are metric wide and yet imperial round..
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    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    I'm from the U.S. Originally and when I was the PBTM I usually said 8, 12, 16 and ridiculous (20) ounces. I have yet heard someone here offer 220ml, 375ml, etc.. Small, medium and large is the norm. Some places only have regular (have you tried to order a sized option at Brunetti's for example?). I like to hold up a cup for the victim: "Yes: that'll do."

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    joe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    Even weirder that our tyres are metric wide and yet imperial round..
    Just as weird: look at a HN catalogue from a dozen years ago, and all the TVs advertised had their screen size in cm.

    Now, practically all imperial.

    ANNOYING!

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    Yea nobody refers to TV's in cm, never will.

    You don't hear people say, "Check out my 127 cm TV!", that would be absurd.
    They say, "Check out my 50 inch TV". People identify with inch measurements a lot easier I think.

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    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    I know people might understand the difference between a 48 and 50 inch TV but they still don't know what an inch is.
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    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundergod View Post
    I know people might understand the difference between a 48 and 50 inch TV but they still don't know what an inch is.
    I keep telling the missus that but she still insists otherwise

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    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    I keep telling the missus that but she still insists otherwise
    always sounds better in metric though dontcha think?

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    More is better, that's all people want to know.
    Also, when Samsung released their new 64" plasma TV's about a year or two ago (model PS64xxx as opposed to the older PS63xxx models) they were lying. The screen is still only 63" diameter, at least in the few models that I measured and compared.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    Even weirder that our tyres are metric wide and yet imperial round..
    Or in the UK where cold weather is reported in Celsius and warm weather in Fahrenheit. My mate there reckons it's because they like to exaggerate weather conditions

    Or in the Republic of Ireland where road signs specify distances in km, but speed in miles, due to them using metric but using cars made for Britain

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    Yup all the takeaway cups in oz and then all the dine in cups in ml!
    So we have 8, 12 and 16oz for takeaway and 220ml and 280ml for dine in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundergod View Post
    I know people might understand the difference between a 48 and 50 inch TV but they still don't know what an inch is.
    25.4 mm

    For the record 1 US fluid oz 29.5735296875 grams or thereabouts
    And it doesn't allow for stretched milk, and some even come with a 90% full measure to allow for spillage while walking just to throw more scanners into the works

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    25.4 mm

    For the record 1 US fluid oz 29.5735296875 mL or thereabouts
    And it doesn't vary for stretched milk,
    Fixed.

    rho knows what it equates to in mass.


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    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    Mr Jack... whereas I agree with your corrections, I do happen to think that the way you quote other contributors is bizarre at best, and inaccurate at the very least.

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    "Fixed" is another one of those "common elsewhere" conventions. It's a deliberate misquote intended to subtlety point out the small change required to "fix" a comment. Often used in jest

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    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrJack View Post
    "Fixed" is another one of those "common elsewhere" conventions. It's a deliberate misquote intended to subtlety point out the small change required to "fix" a comment. Often used in jest
    Or... like many of my posts, it just comes across as smart arsed

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    Senior Member Mariner's Avatar
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    Product & Crude oil barrels are the most bizarre measurements of all - readily interchanged with m3. So habitually at work and home we readily interchange between 2 ounces or no greater than 60mls for our favourite beverage.

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    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    A mate of mine was an engineer in the merchant navy for 30 years, and still bemoans the fact that ships of different origin had different standard sizes for nuts / bolts etc (i.e. some in 16ths, some in metric).

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrJack View Post
    "Fixed" is another one of those "common elsewhere" conventions. It's a deliberate misquote intended to subtlety point out the small change required to "fix" a comment. Often used in jest
    No it actually made the quote incorrect.
    The quote relates to the stretched milk volume or weight being different to regular milk volume or weight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinitasse View Post
    Or... like many of my posts, it just comes across as smart arsed

    I did originally have a longer drier technical post, but thought a bit of humour would be better. Obviously that was a bit too dry also...

    Ronin, a 1 fl. oz. container will always hold 1 fl. oz., because the fluid ounce is a unit of volume. The unit ounce (oz) is for mass. They are not equivalent.

    When you stretch milk, it's density changes (and its volume increases in the jug), but clearly the same volume of stretched or unstretched milk will fit in the cup (whilst the same mass will not fit).

    You may have already known that, I just wanted to point it out for the record.
    Last edited by MrJack; 22nd July 2014 at 10:09 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    25.4 mm

    For the record 1 US fluid oz 29.5735296875 grams or thereabouts
    And it doesn't allow for stretched milk, and some even come with a 90% full measure to allow for spillage while walking just to throw more scanners into the works
    1 US fluid oz 29.5735296875 grams

    and perhaps i should have expanded on it by stating that baseline measurements are for room temp water (there is an exact temp but I can not remember it at this point) as per usual conversions
    My mistake in not adding in this info

  23. #23
    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    1 US fluid oz 29.5735296875 grams

    and perhaps i should have expanded on it by stating that baseline measurements are for room temp water (there is an exact temp but I can not remember it at this point) as per usual conversions
    My mistake in not adding in this info
    I've tried to argue the same case myself before but since the topic is oz. vs cups with respect to coffee the weight of pure water in grams vs fluid ounces is hardly relevant in any way, shape or form and... as painful as it is for me to admit Mr Jack's last post hit the nail on the head. Fluid ounces hold the most relevance when compared to ml and volume is volume and fluffy, frothed and stretched milk doesn't change that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinitasse View Post
    Fluid ounces hold the most relevance when compared to ml and volume is volume and fluffy, frothed and stretched milk doesn't change that.
    For the record I never compared fluid Oz to ml, but to grams. The amount of grams would change with the stretching of the milk
    I guess the point is mute to the thread topic tho.

    Back on topic now

    Is it illegal to quote coffee cup sizes in ounces?

    I'd very much doubt it although it would be nice.

    Why do some people in the coffee industry in Australia still us oz?

    Because its an international standard cup size I guess, right or wrong, who knows.
    Maybe the same reason they sell 600mls of milk instead of either a US pint that is 473mls or an imperial pint that is 568mls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    For the record I never compared fluid Oz to ml, but to grams. The amount of grams would change with the stretching of the milk
    I guess the point is mute to the thread topic tho.
    Which is where you went wrong. There is no equivalence between fluid ounces and grams, because they are units of two different properties (volume and mass respectively).
    Incidentally, 1 fluid ounce is apparently defined as the volume taken up by 1/128th of 1 US gallon (defined as the volume of 10 pounds of water at 16.7C). That does not mean that 1 fl. oz. = 10/128 lbs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    Back on topic now

    Is it illegal to quote coffee cup sizes in ounces?

    I'd very much doubt it although it would be nice.

    Why do some people in the coffee industry in Australia still us oz?

    Because its an international standard cup size I guess, right or wrong, who knows.
    Maybe the same reason they sell 600mls of milk instead of either a US pint that is 473mls or an imperial pint that is 568mls.
    I actually wondered the same thing. There are certainly laws covering this (Weights and Measures Act I think), but whether they apply here I don't know. Could it perhaps fall into the same category as "small, medium and large"?

    It could certainly raise the question of whether 8oz. referred to ounces, or fluid ounces (oz. seems a common, albeit incorrect, abbreviation for fl. oz.).

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    I like Americans, but often I despair at their blatant refusal to acknowledge the rest of the world.
    Metrics is one such area.
    In science, the standard for units of measurements is the MKS system --metre, kilogram, second. That is universal.
    For lay people, all major countries except the United States use metrics. There, it is a recommendation, rather than a law.

    The result is probably the root of confusion for its trading partners.

    Every consumer electronic that Japan makes is made for the American market-- where inches still prevail. So we, as a byproduct of that market dominance. are forced to measure our screens in inches as well (diagonally, not diameter as one poster said).

    With Americans dominating the internet, their spelling is now wittingly or otherwise being adopted by our impressionable--and dare I say--illiterate younger generations.

    On the other hand, perhaps the internet, as the global unit of communication, will lead to everything being standardised as manufacturers become sick of different standards, such as 112 volts @60 hertz for the USA, and 240V @50 hertz elsewhere.

    We can only hope.

  27. #27
    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robusto View Post
    For lay people, all major countries except the United States use metrics.
    And let's not forget the UK. They've been dabbling in metric since 1965 but have yet to embrace the system wholeheartedly. You will still drive your car in mph, weigh yourself in stone and buy a pound of apples at the supermarket.



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