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Thread: How do you do your double ristrettos?

  1. #1
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    How do you do your double ristrettos?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Searching this site I found 2 ways to do a double ristretto.

    Method 1 Do a double dose (about 19/20 gms) and dial in 60mls in 30 seconds but cut the shot early to deliver 30mls instead. The advantage of this way is you can do a split double (2 singles) in case two friends drop in but to me it feels under extracted with limited flavour

    Method 2 Do a double shot but dial finer to get 30mls in 30 seconds. I believe this is a "true" double ristretto and it has a more intense and sweeter flavour.

    I have been successfully making singles (I didn't want to waste beans) in a single basket for many years but was convinced by someone to try making a double ristretto instead. Anyway I tried both methods and loved method 2, amazing intensity and depth of flavour. I reckon I might stick with this despite the extra beans.

    I'm curious to know who regularly has double ristrettos and what method do you use. Also when making these for two do you do two separate double ristrettos or use method 1 and do a split double.

    I need to stop being so set in my ways and try different techniques. That's why coffee making is fun.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member gonzo89's Avatar
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    Hey Barri,

    I also find it fun to experiment from time to time just for fun.

    I regularly pull double ristrettos since it suits my personal taste. Personally I weigh my shots and use this to arrive at the best possible extraction each time (with all other variables as consistent as possible). Yes some people are going to blabber on about weighing blah blah blah I don't care.

    I stick to the method of aiming for a 65% brew ratio. You can achieve this by multiplying whatever double dose you like by 1.55 and that will give you the brew weight target you are after. I use 22g and extract 34g total. Works a charm every time. This yields the best coffees I have ever pulled with any bean.

    So when you said you dialed your 20g finer to achieve 30g you were pretty much spot on with the brew target for that weight using the 65% brew ratio method . And yes this is a true ristretto in my opinion also. The first method you described sounds like it would yield terrible results. I wouldn't ever advise to cut shots halfway.

    Cheers
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  3. #3
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Personally I like my double riz from a triple basket, nice and slow pour, pulled a little short at about 40ml if I could be bothered measuring…
    Mmmmmm sweet, thick, rich, oily goodness
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  4. #4
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    Triple basket hey! Sounds even more intense but I've already increased my bean usage.

  5. #5
    Senior Member gonzo89's Avatar
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    triple all the way for a double riz :thumbup: beautiful to watch through a naked pf
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  6. #6
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Yep...

    Triple basket 40-50ml Ristretto in our house too. Gotta love that thick, rich, sweetness...

    Mal.

  7. #7
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Triple filter, naked p/f, 30 ml of goop.

    But that reminds me..... must check out what my new one is.... ;-)
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  8. #8
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    Triple filter, naked p/f, 30 ml of goop.
    Haha...

    Never heard it described as "goop" before.... Have to remember that when I next have visitors - "How does a cup of Goop sound?"

    Mal.
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  9. #9
    Caffeinated kopigeek's Avatar
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    I'm with method #2 - crank up the fineness of the grinder and pull a shot. Thick rich syrup. Intense. Haven't tried the triple but I've got a naked pf on order with a triple basket so it looks like I'll be upping my caffeine intake.

    Which reminds me. I've got a SO Matambo Huila Colombia and it's time to 'riz' out the juice.

  10. #10
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    Interestingly I asked for a few cafes in Melbourne how they do their singles and some actually do single doses (9 to 12 gms) in single baskets, most do split singles from a double dose and only one did double ristrettos. That was Dimattina's in South Melbourne. I had one of their singles today and it was delicious. I'm not sure what they do when they're busy but I'm guessing split singles

  11. #11
    Senior Member ArtW's Avatar
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    So consensus is that to do a Ristretto you use a finer grind that you would for an espresso and therefore get a lesser but more concentrated yield. What I don't understand is why this is sweet. I would have thought that by using a finer grind and slower pour you are actually over-extracting the espresso and would therefore get a bitter taste. Any explanations?

  12. #12
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    How do you do your double ristrettos?

    I don't grind finer, I simply cut it short so I get the first two-thirds of the shot.

    This yields about 40ml from a double.

  13. #13
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtW View Post
    So consensus is that to do a Ristretto you use a finer grind that you would for an espresso and therefore get a lesser but more concentrated yield.
    Yep...
    Quote Originally Posted by ArtW View Post
    What I don't understand is why this is sweet. I would have thought that by using a finer grind and slower pour you are actually over-extracting the espresso and would therefore get a bitter taste. Any explanations?
    Don't know whether this explanation from Matt Perger has been 'peer reviewed' as such but it at least offers some insights...
    Coffee Extraction and How to Taste It - Matt Perger

    Mal.

  14. #14
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtW View Post
    So consensus is that to do a Ristretto you use a finer grind that you would for an espresso and therefore get a lesser but more concentrated yield.
    I'm not so sure about this - I can't imagine many coffee bars changing grinds for each ristretto order, not with a commercial grinder. I would have thought that the progression would run the other way - grind is set for a perfect ristretto, then an espresso is simply run a little longer, which will give a less intense shot, but by dilution rather than extraction. If you ground coarser for espresso, you would lose proper extraction as well…

    But maybe I'm wrong - it's happened many times before!

    Quote Originally Posted by ArtW View Post
    What I don't understand is why this is sweet. I would have thought that by using a finer grind and slower pour you are actually over-extracting the espresso and would therefore get a bitter taste. Any explanations?
    From my experience, it is first part of the shot that is the sweetest - therefore a ristretto is sweeter overall but also much stronger, as it is not bringing in the tail end of the extraction (which in effect dilutes but also brings some less-sweet - read undesirable! - elements) into the brew.) That's why I'd tend to lean your way on this one - if it is going to be an over-extracted shot - pulling it short won't help, for a ristretto or espresso length pour.

    FWIW I aim for slow, drippy pours for any and everything. I pulled a super short Yemen blend double ristretto (maybe a 30ml from 25g in a triple basket!) yesterday which was superb - oily, viscous poke in the eye intensity! But I've also done the same and let it run to 40-45ml or so - and it is still amazing - but just a different beverage. Lasts longer, not as potent - but still yum

    Moral of the story - try and see!
    Cheers Matt
    Last edited by DesigningByCoffee; 27th April 2015 at 02:00 PM. Reason: Verbal Diarrhea :)
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  15. #15
    Senior Member ArtW's Avatar
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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by DesigningByCoffee View Post
    I'm not so sure about this - I can't imagine many coffee bars changing grinds for each ristretto order, not with a commercial grinder. I would have thought that the progression would run the other way - grind is set for a perfect ristretto, then an espresso is simply run a little longer
    I think that makes more sense. Scott Rao briefly talks about yields for ristretto, normale (espresso), lungo. He doesn't mention changing the grind but talks about brewing ratios and provides a table from Andy Schechter. According to this a typical brew ratio for a ristretto is 100%, ie the mass is equal to the dry grounds used to make it (eg. a 16g double for 16g liquid), normale is twice the mass and Lungo is three times.

    Quote Originally Posted by DesigningByCoffee View Post
    Moral of the story - try and see!
    I'll do that. On the weekend when I've got a bit more time I'll split some shots by 1st, 2nd and 3rd 15 seconds of extraction and see how noticeably different the taste is.
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