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Thread: Problem

  1. #1
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    Problem

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi all, hope someone can help.
    Lately I cant seem to get the right setting on my grinder. at one setting it seems to fine as the pump has a problem trying to push the water through and it takes about a whole minute to get a cuppa. If I go to one setting coarser the coffee pours through much to fast.
    I dont know if its the pump on my Bezzera machine wearing out and not being able to pump through the finer grind or is it my Grinder which is also a Bezzera.
    Do these pumps eventually wear out or not or is there some slack in the adjustment ring of the grinder that can be fixed
    Last edited by sailor; 21st June 2015 at 10:37 AM.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Are you using fresh beans?


    Java "♫♪How old are those beeeeeans in the grinderrrrr...♫♪" phile
    sung to the tune of 'How much are those doggies in the window'
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  3. #3
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    allways use fresh beans

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    Sounds like quite a dramatic change from one increment to another.

    Do you weigh your dose? Or check its consistency in some other way?

  5. #5
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sailor View Post
    allways use fresh beans
    Fresh beans by what measurement? Bought in a grocery store? A coffee shop? Home roasted? How long ago were they roasted? How have they been stored? Have you changed your bean supplier? Exactly what equipment do you have? How long have you had the equipment? Has the weather changed?

    The more information you give the more likely the problem will be correctly diagnosed.


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    My grinder is a doser so I get the same amount everytime. coffee is from a roaster, age of beans is irelevant. if its a day old or 10 years old if the beans are the same it should be consistent. will have to pull the grinder apart to see if something is loose in there, changing the grind setting by 1 notch should not make such a huge difference

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    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sailor View Post
    My grinder is a doser so I get the same amount everytime. coffee is from a roaster, age of beans is irelevant. if its a day old or 10 years old if the beans are the same it should be consistent. will have to pull the grinder apart to see if something is loose in there, changing the grind setting by 1 notch should not make such a huge difference
    Hmmmmm. Some big calls in there.

    Have you tried backing the grinder off to very coarse, running it till it empties, then returning to normal espresso range?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sailor View Post
    My grinder is a doser so I get the same amount everytime. coffee is from a roaster, age of beans is irelevant. if its a day old or 10 years old if the beans are the same it should be consistent. will have to pull the grinder apart to see if something is loose in there, changing the grind setting by 1 notch should not make such a huge difference
    Not true about age of beans being irelevant. Makes a huge difference. All else equal, older coffee will flow faster than fresh coffee and is much harder to nail the flow. Recommended freshness windows is about 1-3 weeks after the roast date.

    Same for the doser, unless you fill the doser fully, you can't get consistent amount of coffee with the flick. If you do fill the doser fully, you have another problem - where the old grind (coarser) mixing with new grind (Supposedly finer grind) that affects your espresso flow. Not to mention the stale coffee if they've been sitting for longer than 20 min. That would also affect how you would change the grind, unless you have a way to clear 95% of grind from the doser and the grinder's throat.

    Regardless, let's assume you're using the exact same workflow & coffee(same batch) and it has worked before, did anything change now? Cleaning the grinder is good after a long service, but it's unlikely the pump problem (unles the pump sounds differently now which should be obvious).

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sailor View Post
    My grinder is a doser so I get the same amount everytime.
    Sorry, but nope

    coffee is from a roaster, age of beans is irelevant.
    Sorry, but nope

    if its a day old or 10 years old if the beans are the same it should be consistent.
    Sorry, but nope

    will have to pull the grinder apart to see if something is loose in there, changing the grind setting by 1 notch should not make such a huge difference
    Sorry, but nope- with 10 week old or 10 year old beans, I am not surprised in the least!

  10. #10
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    yes done that

  11. #11
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    pump sounds noisier in the finer grind which is obvious as its struggling to push the water through, hence a very slow flow

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    Don't think there is such a thing as a consistent grind, I wish there was.
    When I was first told humidity changes grind settings I passed it off as rubbish. Soon learnt that I fequentely needed to adjust based on weather each day. For me morning shots always need to be finer grind to get same flow, as small as 1-3 notches

  13. #13
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    The general rule of threes for coffee that is considered to be fresh:

    3 years for greens
    3 weeks for roasted
    3 minutes for ground

    I have found if I use stale coffee, getting anything decent tasting and a good pour is a struggle. Fresh beans make a world of difference.

    Cheers

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    It always surprises me that people think it's Ok to use roasted coffee that is months, or even years old.

    It's a fresh food and once cooked (roasted), (like lots of other dried food) it's always best when consumed while fresh, that's how it's meant to be used...

    Mal.
    Last edited by Dimal; 23rd June 2015 at 04:17 PM.

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    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    Yeah, but in hindsight before I became a (educated) snob and tasted a very decent brew I didn't know what I was missing out on and didn't know coffee could be so delicious. I wonder how many others are in the same boat?

    Needless to say there is no looking back now! Have learnt a heap on here.

    Cheers
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    I hear what you are saying Artman, and then life becomes difficult (i.e can't just get coffee anywhere and avoid instant whenever possible) and expensive (i.e. Kettle, cups and tea spoon are no longer acceptable coffee gears) ... But still no regrets
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    Senior Member Bosco_Lever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by artman View Post
    The general rule of threes for coffee that is considered to be fresh:

    3 years for greens
    3 weeks for roasted
    3 minutes for ground

    I have found if I use stale coffee, getting anything decent tasting and a good pour is a struggle. Fresh beans make a world of difference.

    Cheers
    This is a very, very rough guideline. It should be followed with numerous caveats.
    To be honest, I believe it is wrong to rehash it.

    There are just too many errors with this assumption.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bazooka View Post
    ... (i.e. Kettle, cups and tea spoon are no longer acceptable coffee gears) ...
    careful !... A kettle , cup and teaspoon, is still essential kit ...especially if you drink long black or pour-over ....
    ...and maybe with a little sugar !

  19. #19
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    A variable temperature kettle of course

  20. #20
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosco_Lever View Post
    This is a very, very rough guideline. It should be followed with numerous caveats.
    To be honest, I believe it is wrong to rehash it.

    There are just too many errors with this assumption.
    Agree, only a rough rule of thumb but I found it an easy way to get my head around the importance of freshness.

    The important thing is to try different things and see what you like. One bean I roasted (an Ethiopian) I always consumed within a week or so of roasting and always found it rather non inspiring. Once I found a bit in a bag that was three weeks old and the same beans were stunning.

    If I need to drink "non snob" coffee I just refer to it as an alternate beverage.... and add a couple of spoons of milo to make it interesting.

    Cheers

  21. #21
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sailor View Post
    My grinder is a doser so I get the same amount everytime. coffee is from a roaster, age of beans is irelevant. if its a day old or 10 years old if the beans are the same it should be consistent. will have to pull the grinder apart to see if something is loose in there, changing the grind setting by 1 notch should not make such a huge difference
    Hi sailor
    How old is the grinder?
    It could be the burrs - I certainly found that after about 5 years my M4 doser grinder was becoming more difficult to dial in, with small adjustments gave large swings - sometimes. Or not A new set of burrs pulled it all back into line. If you can pull out the top carrier to inspect the burrs, you can check for damage by running you nail over the edges - you'll feel if it is still sharp or not.
    Could also be all blocked up with old grounds - I used to strip and clean every 6 months or so - cleaning the burrs with a skewer would make a big difference I could feel and taste, as the cracks get filled up with oils and old grounds (try using a file that is clogged up with metal filings!)

    All the best
    Matt

  22. #22
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    I think you hit the nail on the head. I have had the grinder for over 4 years now and it was secondhand when I bought it. Rang Bezzera with the problem, they said the burrs should be replaced after about 4 years. I think this thing is about 10 years old. so Have ordered a new set of burrs.

  23. #23
    TOK
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosco_Lever View Post
    First insert post # 13 here, then:

    "...This is a very, very rough guideline. It should be followed with numerous caveats.
    To be honest, I believe it is wrong to rehash it.

    There are just too many errors with this assumption..."
    Yes because as you say there really are a number of caveats that go with the guideline, and no, because there are times when you need to use it for people that havent even got that far yet in their coffee journey. There really is a place...

    Regardless, happy to see that something I introduced to CS all those years ago is still doing the rounds

    *************

    As to the post directly above this #22:

    I'll have to disagree with the "time" thing because it really is about the volume of beans that have been ground through the grinder rather than how old the grinding plates are (what if the grinder is 10 years old but has only had for the sake of the example, say 25 kilos put through it....) ....HOWEVER...I fully understand its probably easier to advise those who are not in the know to change out the plates at some kind of time interval rather than by giving them a figure of kilos that will be
    a) hard for the grinder owner to work out and
    b) will be "rubbery" in any case due to grinding plates wearing out at different volumes of through put due to differing types of beans / blends put through, different supply/hardness of plates, different environmental conditions, etc etc etc.

    In the end, grinding plates on these kinds of grinders are about the only thing that will ever wear out in the lifetime of home ownership and use, and service people are reliant on an owner realising that something has changed, and it will usually mean the plates are worn out and need replacing. Otherwise you could go for years without changing them out....as long as you are still happy with the result in the cup.

    My preference then, for knowing when to replace a set of grinding plates/burrs, would be in order of descending pertinence:
    1) When you realise through your experience that they need replacing (irrespective of kilos and time);
    2) when a certain number of kilos have been put through (arbitrary);
    3) after an interval in time (also arbitrary).


    Just for your own interest, I would advise you to pick an arbitrary figure of your normal weekly use of coffee. Say 250 grams would be reasonable for an "average home user". 250 grams x 52 weeks in a year x 10 years = a theoretical throughput of 130 kilos.

    Dont know what kind of grinder you have (only mentioned a *brand* name not a model), and we dont know if it is an ex commercial grinder. So the figure could be way out and much much higher than the theoretical 130 kg. As I said, its just for your own interest. If it were say an ex commercial 64mm grinder (a common size in older cafe grinders commonly purchased by CS people), with the kind of symptoms you were describing, my (educated) guess would be that the grinder has probably done well in excess of 500 kgs. if always used with nothing less than good FAQ quality 100% arabica blends, and less if commercially using some of the imported low grade robusta based blends. I've seen enough old style cafe people do this....

    You will notice a HUGE difference in the cup quality of your coffee when the jobs been done, using the same beans as before.

    Hope that helps put a little more perspective/interest into the equation.
    Last edited by TOK; 6th July 2015 at 03:48 PM. Reason: added stuff that readers may find of interest...or not.
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