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Thread: The size of an espresso shot

  1. #1
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    The size of an espresso shot

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    In a cafe where they are using something comparable to a 20g vst basket, if you walked in and just asked for an espresso would you expect to get the pour from 1 spout of the portafilter in your cup or both spouts? From what I am seeing if a place uses a naked portafilter you effectively get 'both' because there is no other choice, but more and more places that use a regular portafilter give you one side of the shot, and the barista puts a cup on the other spout so he can taste and evaluate the shot quality.... Would you expect the single or double?
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  2. #2
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    I think it depends where you are getting your coffee from.

    A lot of the "speciality" cafes I have visited using light or omini roasts for espresso, ground using EKs and some just big flats like Mythos tend to use spouted pf and split the shot, extractions are usually at around the 1 : 2 - 2.5 ratio.
    The barista tastes the other half and if its good I get the other. I tend to replicate this at home, unless I know I will be knocking out lots of milks for others.

    If the cafe is geared more to high volume milk drinkers only, still many that could be considered " speciality" they might be using large conical or flats (majors) and are using med - dark roasts pulled ristretto. I notice also quite a few use the naked pf and you get a very condensed shot from the same 20g + dose.

    IMO this is where you run into problems and people complaining about sour or too strong / in your face espresso. When these places are using roasts that are getting lighter and lighter but not changing how they extract the coffee.

    It works fine in a large milk drink, punchy and strong high dosed ristretto cuts through the milk and most people get their coffee hit.

    The best black coffee I find is when they have a specified roast / grinder / sometimes group head for black coffee prep and the rest is dedicated to more developed roast knocking out something in the realm of double ristretto to normale using 20g+ dose, into your standard 8oz milk drink.

    I have tried it all for espresso on the roast spectrum, just ending first crack to much darker roasts in my own roasting and out and about. I have not drunk milk for close to a year, but still think for milk coffees you cant go past a roast that is around the 14 to 15min mark just on edge or first snaps of second. Except for a lot of dry processed Ethiopians.
    Last edited by Steve82; 17th August 2015 at 03:22 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Omni roast = single origin?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melbroaster View Post
    Omni roast = single origin?
    No, but coincidently they usually are. It means that it is a non specific roast in terms of brew method, not a " filter " roast or " espresso " roast.

    So it often gets called a compromise between the two realms, however this is not the best word to use as the roaster is trying to represent the origin characters fully while also being well developed so that however the coffee is prepared it will be sweet, rich and satisfying.
    Mecca are a good example of omni roasts.

    But all terms aside, even on a darker roast where one is aiming for espresso specifically, you should be able to brew it up via manual brew method and it be sweet, balanced acidity, satisfying body etc.

  5. #5
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Omni roast eh? Never heard of it....... 'til now.

    Ahhh ...... the good old internet

  6. #6
    Senior Member mwcalder05's Avatar
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    If I ask for an 'espresso' or 'short black', I'd expect a shot from one side of a double spouted PF. If the cafe is using 20g VST, then I'd probably expect 20 - 35g of espresso in my cup. I'm personally not a fan of cafes using only naked PF. It means everyone can only get a 'double riz' or a full 'double shot'. No 'single shot.'

    PS: I use the quotation marks in the knowledge that every cafe and everyone has different definitions of these terms.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    Omni roast eh? Never heard of it....... 'til now.

    Ahhh ...... the good old internet
    Funny enough I actually heard of it from talking to and interacting with real live people in the realms of " speciality coffee ".

    Perger has used the term several times in his various bloggings

  8. #8
    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve82 View Post

    Perger has used the term several times in his various bloggings
    The messiah has spoken! Therefore it's not only true but eminently relevant as well.
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  9. #9
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    I was biting my tongue V, but well said...

    Mal.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    I was biting my tongue V, but well said...

    Mal.
    Unfortunately I've never been much of a tongue biter Mal... life's just too short for that
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  11. #11
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Omni roast

    I thought god only had 3 omnis, now there are 4?

    Sounds more like I don't know what I want and I can't make up my mind I don't know what group I'm in nor do I know how to get there.

    I'll also add one of those tongue in cheek smiley faces
    Last edited by chokkidog; 17th August 2015 at 10:48 PM. Reason: adding a tongue in cheek smiley face
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  12. #12
    Senior Member askthecoffeeguy's Avatar
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    my preference is for 30ml from a single spout pf - particularly if im dining in, if its takeaway I have no problem with a slightly longer pour from a double pf...

  13. #13
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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Since we are expression personal opinions here..... 8^)
    I subscribe to "less is more" principle, in many things, including espresso.
    So for me, a single shot is extracting a maximum of 25 grams/ml of coffee from 8-10 grams of beans.
    A double shot is extracting 45 (max 50) grams/ml of coffee from 15-20 grams of beans.
    A *triple ristretto* (which I make at home, sometimes) is extracting 45-50 grams of coffee from 24-26 grams of beans.
    In all cases about 30-35 seconds is the timing of extraction that I prefer.
    If its less than 30 seconds, its too fast and too thin for my taste.
    If its over 35sec i.e. closer to 40 seconds then its a touch too slow but still quite acceptable.
    If its over 40 seconds or if its under ~28 seconds - then I throw it out and do it again.

    As I said - each to their own. I think the main rule is - if YOU like the result.



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