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Thread: Do enthusiasts here generally drink double shots?

  1. #1
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    Do enthusiasts here generally drink double shots?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Because the single shot basket is tapered into a V shape and that's undesirable in terms of trying to get a perfect pull, does that mean enthusiasts here usually drink a double shot if they've got no one else to split it with?

  2. #2
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    I use a bottomless portafilter and gladly drink double shots because they are delicious......😃

  3. #3
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    Never use a single basket UNLESS I am absolutely down to my last handful of beans and can't fill a double.

  4. #4
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    Never used a single basket. In fact pretty much only ever used 21g ones which are probably technically triples.

  5. #5
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Bought an EP Precision Triple basket from Chris at Talk Coffee more than twelve months ago, and love it...

    Not going back to a Double any time soon and never touching a single again...

    Mal.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Your a demon Mal

    I use an 18 gram EP, as others have said, single baskets are pretty well a no go area, most singles find their way into the bits and pieces drawer and never see the light of day again.
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  7. #7
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    most singles find their way into the bits and pieces drawer and never see the light of day again.
    Yep, that's where mine are...

    Mal.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    Yep, that's where mine are...

    Mal.
    Ditto 10 char

  9. #9
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    +1 .

  10. #10
    axs
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    I like my 17g LM slightly overdosed to 18.5g
    Getting ~2.5oz including crema = ~45g espresso and love it .
    Experimented with other baskets including VST 20g but always came back to LM

  11. #11
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Oh oh, on the brink of a basket war, first shots fired.
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  12. #12
    axs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Oh oh, on the brink of a basket war, first shots fired.
    I knew someone will say it
    No, it’s about basket volume, not manufacturer.
    I just prefer double from 18g, not from 22g.
    And don’t care what brand of basket used as far as it good quality.
    Unfortunately can't tell difference in taste between LM, VST or something else
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  13. #13
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    I like my quad baskets (28g), cutting the shot just as it starts to show signs of blonding. Typically around 60ml.

    DCP_4744.jpgDCP_4743.jpg

    7g Single, 18g Double, 28g Quad


    Java "Yums!" phile
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Oh oh, on the brink of a basket war, first shots fired.
    Considering you were the second CSr to push EP "precision baskets" (oxymoron) in post 6 (Dimal beat you by one post), you then started a basket war with this, your post 11.

    Having said that, one of the many advantages of a 7g single VST precision basket (BTW, that is real precision: just use a strong magnifying glass or microscope) is that it is possible to tamp it easily. Unlike Java "untampable single basket" phile's photo above.

    Rather than take yet another photo, here is things coffee's (site sponsor) lo-rez snap of the VST from Things Coffee | Pullman Tamper, Coffee Tamper, VST Filter Basket, VST Refractometer, Hottop, Coffee Roaster, KN-8828B-2. Note the "shelf" on the VST means that the small central area may be tamped easily. It is followed by my 316 stainless tamper made to suit: note matching taper. Although for over a year I got by with a Smartwater "guava & lime" bottle / tamper with enough water to balance the weight nicely, so doing a one-off is more of a user friendliness issue. It is even possible to obtain a showerscreen with holes spread over a smaller diameter so the flow matches the main "action area" of the 7g basket (photo on request - I hate cluttering a good site with such obvious things).



    TamperPreSingle.jpg


    TampIt
    PS: throwing the first stone is usually a dumb idea...

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    ... Although for over a year I got by with a Smartwater "guava & lime" bottle / tamper ....
    I have had the pleasure of drinking Tampit's coffee tamped with nothing but juice bottles and it was annoyingly good so it certainly works.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by scientist View Post
    Because the single shot basket is tapered into a V shape and that's undesirable in terms of trying to get a perfect pull, does that mean enthusiasts here usually drink a double shot if they've got no one else to split it with?
    G'day Scientist

    I usually have two 7g (dosed at 7.2g) singles a day as a latte. Fresh "boutique roasts" (i.e. small batch roasting) can extract a lot more flavour than most bulk roasts due to the more precise control over the process. Dark roasts tend to deliver a lot more flavour when they are between day 4 and 11 compared to medium / light roasts at any date. Light / mediums tend to mature later and be better for longer. Better grinders, baskets and use of a naked p/f when dialled in properly all combine to give a higher flavour whack. At the top end of the flavour tree unless it is a very strong milk there is no way a double is not overpowering (unless you are a heavy smoker).

    A few things strike me with this thread.

    1) Everyone uses the Italians as the gold standard for coffee gear. They defined a single shot as 7g in the '50's. If you accept they know what to do with coffee, it seems quite churlish to dismiss their 7g(ish) single basket out of hand.

    2) Some single baskets are similar to my VST's in profile: they are relatively easy to tamp. Others aren't so simple.

    3) If you want to scale a shot up, go for it (Yay Java"I'm a fan"phile 28g is awesome!). Just because the "standard shot" is 7g, there is no reason not to balance the shot to the environment or even the quantity of flavour delivered by a specific roast. When using some of the more gutless bulk roasts I use 15g to 28g (Javaphile is not the only one with a 28g) to allow for the lack of flavour. I also use my 18g to make my "nitro ice coffees" (just add natural vanilla icecream, nothing else). Often my 28g is useful in Hazelnut Afrogatos - once again, balance the flavour(s).

    For the record, I have never split a shot since early 2000's as I prefer the extra persistent crema of a naked.


    TampIt
    "Whatever floats your boat is fine with me" as long is it is not burnt coffee or scalded milk.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    What an absolute pile of steaming nonsense

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinitasse View Post
    What an absolute pile of steaming nonsense
    Especially the small batch roasting comment. The lack of knowledge of high end roasting equipment is blatantly obvious.
    Wonder what other pearls of wisdom will be bestowed upon us?
    TC and Vinitasse like this.

  19. #19
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinitasse View Post
    What an absolute pile of steaming nonsense
    I don't know if it's nonsense, but I'm lost as to how it relates to the OP.

    Most of my espressos at home are 18g. Occasionally I'll split that to make 2 smaller coffees that I guess could be considered singles, but would still be bigger than a traditional single. When using my Sunbeam EM4820 at work I manage to get about 15-16g of coffee into the single wall, double Breville basket. The only other time I vary my 'shot' size is when I'm using my Aeropress. I use anywhere from about 10g - 20g for an 'espresso' strength Aeropress.

  20. #20
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    As far as gold standard, well ... I'm a starving espresso machine tech and novice home roaster. I really like CS green; it's good stuff! But I can't dose up VST MEGA baskets (I like them just fine ... but $$$).

    So, my current favourite is dosing a VST 15g ridgeless to 16 - 17g and extracting lightly tamped fine ground coffee at 5 - 6 bar for a total of 25 to maybe 30ml.

  21. #21
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    Do enthusiasts here generally drink double shots?

    Perhaps, after reflection, the classic Italian dark roast comes out pretty ok through a 7g basket. Anyone ever try? Full French Burnt? I've tried CS 8 through my 7g Rancilio basket and it was pretty crap; however we were slinging take-away drinks last week and a woman wanted an 1/8th of a shot in a 12oz cup so I pulled about 10ml through the (dusty) 7g.

    She was pleased. I dunno.

  22. #22
    Senior Member magnafunk's Avatar
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    I'm a big fan of updosing with very coarse grind
    Attached Images Attached Images
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  23. #23
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnafunk View Post
    I'm a big fan of updosing with very coarse grind
    Yeah totally agree. To really take it next level add 50% Moccona when dosing 30g into a 28g basket.
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  24. #24
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    You guys are noobs: International Roast and rural froth cappuccino out of the Haros urn/steam machine. The old ladies love you long time if you scald the milk, too.
    LeroyC likes this.

  25. #25
    Senior Member askthecoffeeguy's Avatar
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    What's a single basket ?

  26. #26
    Senior Member askthecoffeeguy's Avatar
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    Likewise any cafe that splits shots sends alarm bells ringing in my head that say "walk away, walk away !"
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  27. #27
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    I cracked it at a customer who insisted that extracting 120ml out of a 18g basket was fine and that he split it into two doubles. It went nice crema, yellow, light blonde, white and then clear. I reset the machine volumetrics to 55ml for the doppio and he cracked the shits and made me reset it to 120ml. I told him he was an idiot and he threw me out of his café.

  28. #28
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    If he was the customer, why was it his cafe? I'm confused.

  29. #29
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    I think he might mean, "client" for machine servicing for their cafe?

  30. #30
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Ahhhhh....that makes more sense.

  31. #31
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    ... er, client: thanks guys. That read confusingly. Apologies.

  32. #32
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    just a question, were they using beans that were palatable to even distinguish any difference between a correct pour, and his "pour"?

  33. #33
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    He did ask me to set the volumes to industry standard initially. That's why I got a little upset. I usually (unless otherwise directed - for a five key pad) set 20ml; 30ml; 40ml and 50/55/60ml. I usually politely suggest that they acquire a deep basket/portafilter for a 55/60ml extraction.

  34. #34
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyeba View Post
    just a question, were they using beans that were palatable to even distinguish any difference between a correct pour, and his "pour"?
    No, not really. But it offended my sensibilities. I'm a nice guy but I don't like to be lectured to about coffee by a chip-slinger who fancies himself a coffee expert.

  35. #35
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    Does anyone get a "rogue" spray from a bottomless portafilter? During a shot a fine squirt from the edge of the basket makes a small mess of my machine & bench top.

    And I may have to think about changing my user name to "quad shot" as I am using a 28g bottomless . And loving it .

  36. #36
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubleshot View Post
    Does anyone get a "rogue" spray from a bottomless portafilter? During a shot a fine squirt from the edge of the basket makes a small mess of my machine & bench top.
    If by "the edge" you mean the edge of the bottom of the portafilter that is side channeling, commonly caused by uneven distribution or a poorly fitting tamper.


    Java "Squirt what?" phile
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  37. #37
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    The spray if from the actual perforations of the basket . I have very nice crema and the liquid flows like a mouse tail , but I get the odd offshoot spray from the basket.

  38. #38
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubleshot View Post
    The spray if from the actual perforations of the basket . I have very nice crema and the liquid flows like a mouse tail , but I get the odd offshoot spray from the basket.
    Yep, side channeling. You need to distribute the grinds in your filter basket better pre-tamping somehow. If your equipments not doin it for you then you'll probably need to use the WDT.
    A bad tamper is another possibility, but poor distribution is the most likely culprit.

  39. #39
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    Thank for the info. I'll look at my technique of the distribution and tamping . I was thinking it could be a bit of the ground coffee that may be partially blocking a hole?

  40. #40
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubleshot View Post
    Thank for the info. I'll look at my technique of the distribution and tamping . I was thinking it could be a bit of the ground coffee that may be partially blocking a hole?
    How does the coffee taste? If it's good then don't worry about the occasional side squirt. We won't tell anyone if you won't

    if it isn't good, then check dose, distribution and tamp as suggested by others. I haven't used a quad basket before so not sure how difficult these are to dose and distribute but the water would have to travel through more grounds than smaller baskets and may be more sensitive to dosing and tamping (guessing).

  41. #41
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    Yeah, I occasionally get a side squirt, even though I try all sorts of things to not do so.

    It just happens occasionally. No big deal.

  42. #42
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Can't remember when I experienced the last so-called "Sprite" from my bottomless PF/Filter Basket...

    I agree with "LeroyC" above, most likely a distribution issue, maybe coupled with a poorly designed Tamper...

    Mal.

  43. #43
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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Coffee shot is very good tasting . Just dislike making a mess of my machine. But I'll always be looking at the techniques of making a great coffee . And taking on board of what works for myself and friends .
    Everybody has different tastes.



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