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Thread: Help I want a God shot coffee

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    Help I want a God shot coffee

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I have tried all kinds of coffee I want one that someone on here has had sucess with making a godshot espresso.
    If you have can you link me to the page where I can order some.
    I have made probably 5 shots out of several thousand i would consider 90 percent close to a godshot.

    Thanks in advance guys.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    There are many suitable beans/blends (e.g. the Espresso Wow blend on BeanBay). But, the beans are just a constraint, the rest is man (woman) and machine, and water.

    I really can't see how dozens of people naming random beans is going to help too much.

    And.......what really is a 'godshot'?
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    Apologies for being so snobby mate.
    Last edited by Davetaylor; 31st March 2016 at 07:55 AM.

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    It is really easy to get a godshot espresso. Just genuflect before every step of your espresso prep and 3 times before pulling the shot.
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    images.jpg

    Sorry to be so frank but the godshot is when everything is perfect. I have every other aspect perfect accept good beans. I have paid up to 90 a kg still chasing.

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    w.r.t?

    Perfection is subjective.


    Edit: Didn't you claim in http://coffeesnobs.com.au/showthread.php?t=43578 to have the method for perfect espresso extraction?


    CS needs a thumbsdown button...

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    Senior Member Lukemc's Avatar
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    Mr vague? Wow
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    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Well Mr Frank, the beans aren't going to be the defining element; even by your own definition you're claiming

    that you and all else is perfect. How do you know that you're perfect and it's the beans letting you down?

    You're spelling isn't perfect....maybe that's a clue.

    'God shots', so called, are fairly common around here at my place.

    You should hold your tongue and not be so hasty and disrespect others on the site if you want people to help you.
    Last edited by chokkidog; 31st March 2016 at 11:02 AM. Reason: ;-)

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    August 2015...

    Quote Originally Posted by Davetaylor View Post
    Hi guys im looking at starting into the coffe business shortly as a caffee owner operator. Before I do that I have decided to turn my passion for coffee into a realization by first getting a good system for my home to perfect my talent before unleashing on the unsuspecting public I was using a breville $150 dollar machine and blade grinder to practice but want to step it up.
    Today...
    Quote Originally Posted by Davetaylor View Post
    I have made probably 5 shots out of several thousand i would consider 90 percent close to a godshot.
    Congrats on getting so far, so fast.

    I must have pulled a million and I learn about espresso every week.

    With 90% of your shots at close to godshot, you need a wildcard WBC entry, because you'll win.

    Wax on, wax off grasshopper...
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrJack View Post
    Didn't you claim in How to make the perfect coffee for Newbies to have the method for perfect espresso extraction?
    He might have followed his step by step process and got lost?
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    Senior Member magnafunk's Avatar
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    I clearly remember the best shot of coffee I ever had, Chris at talk coffee ripped off a cracker on a red lever machine, not sure what it was as I was still at the beginning of my ongoing snob journey.

    I'd had some pretty fine coffee before that but this was next level. I didn't realise how good it was until I'd left the building. He told me what beans he'd used but I was such a noob I didn't really take it in.

    Anyway, my point being, I'd suggest you pay someone who like Chris who really knows what they're doing to get some training. If you've really done several thousand shots without the result you're after I imagine it'd be money well spent. That is if they'll take your money.
    Last edited by magnafunk; 30th March 2016 at 11:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davetaylor View Post
    Dont reply if you dont know what it is mr vague. Thought that seemed pretty straightforward.
    You've clearly mastered bitter and sour. Just aim for right in between those.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    August 2015...



    Today...


    Congrats on getting so far, so fast.

    I must have pulled a million and I learn about espresso every week.

    With 90% of your shots at close to godshot, you need a wildcard WBC entry, because you'll win.

    Wax on, wax off grasshopper...
    I read OP as saying 5 shots in several thousand were 90% close to a godshot, not 90% of his shots close to godshot.
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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    I agree with Simonko, what Davetaylor is trying to say is that out of the thousands he has made only 5 of his shots have come close to the ultimate target.

    Like all of us, he seeks the holy grail of espresso, and, is asking for assistance.

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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    My advice would be to attend a Basic Barista course provided by one of several highly reputable establishments.
    You may be unwittingly using a technique that contains errors that have become 'normal' over time...

    Mal.
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    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    I agree with Simonko, what Davetaylor is trying to say is that out of the thousands he has made only 5 of his shots have come close to the ultimate target.

    Like all of us, he seeks the holy grail of espresso, and, is asking for assistance.
    If that is the case I would suggest he needs a bit more practice. A hit rate of a tiny fraction of one percent is pretty dismal and would hint at failings in technique and/or equipment more than it would in bean selection.
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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Good advice from Dimal and Vinitasse.
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnafunk View Post
    I clearly remember the best shot of coffee I ever had, Chris at talk coffee ripped off a cracker on a red lever machine, not sure what it was as I was still at the beginning of my ongoing snob journey.
    I have a similar story. I do know what it was ( Limmu which tasted like Lychees) and have since failed to replicate that shot, even with Chris's beans. I'm pretty sure it was the red handles.
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    Senior Member Gavisconi007's Avatar
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    I've got a hunch the problem may be something more fundamental. Can the OP please check the brand of machine being used. Report back if it says "Breville" and we'll go from there.

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    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davetaylor View Post
    Dont reply if you dont know what it is mr vague. Thought that seemed pretty straightforward.
    What a charming character you are. Do you speak to people like this on an everyday basis? Did you not notice that I recommended a blend to you?
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    Senior Member deegee's Avatar
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    Once upon a time there was a course called "How to win friends ans influence people". I'm not sure what the current equivalent is, but maybe you should consider one of these too. Oh - and +1 for Mal's suggestion of a barista course too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    ...

    You're spelling isn't perfect....maybe that's a clue.
    ...
    Ah, a Good shot.. that makes more sense :-)
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    If you go to most barista schools then you would know they still teach 30 seconds 30 mills 18-22 grams of coffee. So their information is outdated. If you go to the proffesionals they just want to talk brew ratios. I have done many courses otherwise I wouldnt be where I am today at this stage chasing a suggestion for godly beans. Clearly my own research into beans has proved futile so I was after a suggestion from a competent espresso maker on what beans they have used when making godshots.
    All of my equipment is commercial grade so thats not a hindering factor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davetaylor View Post
    All of my equipment is commercial grade so thats not a hindering factor.
    Must be you then....Part of the problem may be that you already know it all.

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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davetaylor View Post
    If you go to most barista schools then you would know they still teach 30 seconds 30 mills 18-22 grams of coffee. So their information is outdated. If you go to the proffesionals they just want to talk brew ratios. I have done many courses otherwise I wouldnt be where I am today at this stage chasing a suggestion for godly beans. Clearly my own research into beans has proved futile so I was after a suggestion from a competent espresso maker on what beans they have used when making godshots.
    All of my equipment is commercial grade so thats not a hindering factor.
    Do you smoke or take medication for asthma or hayfever? Don't mean to pry but these are a couple of things that can affect a persons palate and I'm just wondering if there's another factor that's limiting your experience.
    I have a very small, 20yr old HX machine that doesn't have PID control or proper pre-infusion or even an e61 group. And yet with the right beans and good technique I frequently get what I would consider some of the best espressos I've ever tasted. It concerns me a bit that you elaborated on what you mean by 'godshot' with a picture. There's no doubt that there can be visual clues to how good an extraction is (see some of my best below), but just because it looks good doesn't mean it'll taste good, and vice versa.

    What can be achieved with good coffee, basic but good equipment and excellent technique:




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    Im not saying the coffee I make is bad or not tasty atm. Im just saying with all the beans I have bought (non from this site) I have yet to hit a winner. I may sound like a snob with my selection of words but at least I would say im honest. Yes I have a very good method for extraction but whats the point if the beans arnt up to par?

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    Senior Member Gavisconi007's Avatar
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    A quick update to Chris's well spotted chronology of events........

    August 2015...



    Originally Posted by Davetaylor
    Hi guys im looking at starting into the coffe business shortly as a caffee owner operator. Before I do that I have decided to turn my passion for coffee into a realization by first getting a good system for my home to perfect my talent before unleashing on the unsuspecting public I was using a breville $150 dollar machine and blade grinder to practice but want to step it up.



    Today...

    Originally Posted by Davetaylor
    .........otherwise I wouldnt be where I am today at this stage chasing a suggestion for godly beans........



    August 2015 "Blade Grinder"

    March 2016 "
    otherwise I wouldnt be where I am today"

    With regards the OP's original question of "
    I have tried all kinds of coffee I want one that someone on here has had sucess with making a godshot espresso.
    If you have can you link me to the page where I can order some.", please refer to the "Beanbay" link at the top of the page. Godshots are possible from all varieties listed therein.......

  28. #28
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davetaylor View Post
    If you go to most barista schools then you would know they still teach 30 seconds 30 mills 18-22 grams of coffee. So their information is outdated. If you go to the proffesionals they just want to talk brew ratios. I have done many courses otherwise I wouldnt be where I am today at this stage chasing a suggestion for godly beans. Clearly my own research into beans has proved futile so I was after a suggestion from a competent espresso maker on what beans they have used when making godshots.
    All of my equipment is commercial grade so thats not a hindering factor.
    If as you say you've done many courses, your equipment is commercial grade (whatever that means) and your research into beans! has proven futile, I suspect you have a problem absorbing the information your being given and then putting it into practice, not a lot we can do about that.

    Someone inquired as to what equipment you have, commercial grade tells us nothing.

    Making good espresso is not that difficult, most of us on this forum do it daily.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    Do you smoke or take medication for asthma or hayfever? Don't mean to pry but these are a couple of things that can affect a persons palate and I'm just wondering if there's another factor that's limiting your experience.
    I have a very small, 20yr old HX machine that doesn't have PID control or proper pre-infusion or even an e61 group. And yet with the right beans and good technique I frequently get what I would consider some of the best espressos I've ever tasted. It concerns me a bit that you elaborated on what you mean by 'godshot' with a picture. There's no doubt that there can be visual clues to how good an extraction is (see some of my best below), but just because it looks good doesn't mean it'll taste good, and vice versa.

    What can be achieved with good coffee, basic but good equipment and excellent technique:



    Hi Leroy

    Your top coffee looks amazing can I ask did it tastegood aswell? And what beans did you use?
    Your second picture is what most of my shots look like but not such evident tiger stripes.

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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davetaylor View Post
    Hi Leroy

    Your top coffee looks amazing can I ask did it tastegood aswell? And what beans did you use?
    Your second picture is what most of my shots look like but not such evident tiger stripes.
    Yes, that top one was just a week or two ago so I can clearly remember that it was really good. It was just a standard Colombian Excleso roasted at home on a Behmor 1600+. The bottom one was from last year some time on my old Gaggia Classic. I would've added milk to it and I can't remember how it tasted. I doubt it was bad though, I had the Gaggia really dialed in after refurbishing it before I sold it.
    I've even had a really good espresso from this little machine combo at work. Check the naked PF extraction!!




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    Amazing goodwork mate!

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    Machine and setup

    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    If as you say you've done many courses, your equipment is commercial grade (whatever that means) and your research into beans! has proven futile, I suspect you have a problem absorbing the information your being given and then putting it into practice, not a lot we can do about that.

    Someone inquired as to what equipment you have, commercial grade tells us nothing.

    Making good espresso is not that difficult, most of us on this forum do it daily.
    20160331_081721.jpg20160331_081728.jpg20160331_081755.jpg20160331_082615.jpg
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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    You're right, as much as looks aren't everything that certainly doesn't look good enough for that type of equipment. I'd personally never buy a Mazzer Mini as they don't seem to offer good value for money, but they should still be capable of assisting in producing a decent espresso. And as you can see from my post above you can do better with far lesser equipment.
    A few things come to mind -
    1. The ECM might have an issue. I don't mean that it's broken, but the pressure settings might not be right for example. Did you buy it locally? Maybe you should go back to the seller with your issue to see if they have any ideas. Maybe they can help re-train you on the machine or spot a problem that you can't see.
    2. It's a process problem. You may be suffering from information overload and while you think you're doing everything 'perfect' there could be one small piece of the puzzle that's letting you down. I've been in similar situations and sometimes the problem is so obvious you don't think of it, or so small you don't notice it. Where are you based? Is there a local trainer that will come into your home and train you on your equipment? I know this service is available in most major Australian cities, and even in many parts of NZ. Hell I even know of someone in Napier, NZ that does this so surely it'll be available to you.

    That's all I've got really. Other than I don't think it's the coffee that's the problem.
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    TC
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    Tiny differences can make big differences in the cup and the chances of picking a godshot simply by looking at it? Pretty much zip, nix, niente, nada.

    The answers are good, fresh beans (and you could do a whole heap worse than try some of Andy's), adequate equipment and finding ways to make your technique rock-solid consistent so that there is only ever one variable. Your equipment is more than adequate.

    Thereafter it comes back to education and palate- and they're operator dependent.
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    Senior Member Gavisconi007's Avatar
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    Should definitely be able to make godshots with that set up (albeit it would be ideal to see a titan conical in the photos for true Nirvana ).

    If possible, please post a side-on profile of a shot in a shot glass so we can properly assess the crema volume.

  36. #36
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Certainly nothing wrong with your setup Dave, you should be getting excellent results, the result in the cup looks pretty reasonable, what did it taste like?

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    On the other thread you mentioned you did a flush/purge for 10s? That might be too long and thus so lowering your brew temperature. Try making some shots with 1 sec flush, 2 sec flush and 5 sec flush. Pale crema could be a sign of off temperature - assuming you're using fresh beans roasted within 2 weeks.

  38. #38
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    I'd personally never buy a Mazzer Mini as they don't seem to offer good value for money, but they should still be capable of assisting in producing a decent espresso.
    I realise the Mazzer Mini isn't the flavour of the month right now, however they are a solidly built, reliable, and most importantly produce ground coffee that is not over heated and will give you an excellent result in the cup.

    The price of the grinder has nothing to do with this discussion.

    Yes, I own a Mazzer Mini and have done for about 6 years, I see no benefit in changing to one of the (in vogue) machines simply so I can be seen to be one of the mob.

    And as Forrest Gump said "That's all I have to say about that"
    Forrest.jpg
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    Be back with what you asked for shortly.

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    Is this post even for real? Its quite entertaining to read i must say. As its been mentioned, there is no specific bean or machine that will give you a "god shot". There are way too many variables ie brew temp, brew time, level of roast on beans, tamping technique, tamper size, grind setting to name a few. Plus, what one may consider a "god shot" is not as desireable to others.
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    Agree Both threads have been entertaining to read at least The gist I've gotten is

    1. Purchase prosumer machine and use for a year
    2. Speak to "industry professionals" write a bullet proof plan for a great espresso shot, welcoming feedback
    3. Get feedback, get mad and furiously type the enter key for each point made
    4. Claim 90% god shots
    5. Claim and post pictures of said prosumer machine = no chance equipment is at fault, at 90% success user not at fault, conclude that fairies must be at fault
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    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    My read of DaveTaylor is not that he is unable to take in information, but rather that he is very impressionable and impatient and doesn't filter information coming in according to his own needs. Bought an ECM very quickly (original thread) and a Mazzer Mini (maybe on its brand name), is obviously influenced by American threads with flushing rituals, and now has this unseatable notion of God Shots probably from similar forums.

    Mate - can I recommend you find one good solid source to develop good technique and to set your expectations correctly. And keep working at that until you master it. Then move on.

    And seriously, don't flush your ECM for ten seconds. I have one of these machines. You're doing yourself no favours.
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    To me it seems 'god shot' is a loose term for many. It can mean the elusive above-par shot. To some others, it can also mean a properly-extracted shot. Surprisingly(or not), the same shot drunk at different ambiance/different time of the day can taste completely different - it's all about perspective and condition of the palette. Try brushing your teeth just before drinking the morning coffee, a terrible experience is guaranteed.

    In this case, OP just seems to want to achieve a good shot as clearly there is a big room of improvement by looking at the shot picture. I agree a good looking shot doesn't necessarily taste good. But you can usually tell if a shot can be extracted better just by looking at it.

    p/s: OP didn't claim to get god shot 90% of the time. Rather, in 5/1000 shots he made, he only gets a 90% shot (scored 9/10 assuming a godshot is 10/10) that he considered decent, but never a godshot. Most of the time he's just getting an average cup of Joe. At least that's my understanding of what's going on...
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    Oh Dave, are you still using the VST 18gram basket? These are designed to a specific dose so you might be better off sticking to the intended dosage +/-1g. Using too much coffee and it will hit/expand into the shower screen, which wouldn't help your extraction.

  45. #45
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    I realise the Mazzer Mini isn't the flavour of the month right now, however they are a solidly built, reliable, and most importantly produce ground coffee that is not over heated and will give you an excellent result in the cup.

    The price of the grinder has nothing to do with this discussion.
    Forrest.jpg
    I agree, that's why I said the grinder probably wasn't at fault regardless of my personal opinion on it or things you might read about the Mini online.


    I just had one more thought Dave. Getting back to the coffee you're using which was what you were asking about in your original post - are you buying freshly roasted coffee from a reputable roaster? And are you storing it correctly and using it within its 'best' window? If you're doing all this then just about any half decent coffee should give good results. If you're buying 2kg bags of Lavazza from Coles then that's another issue.
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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davetaylor View Post
    I've seen a lot worse Dave, how was the taste test?

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    That was how my grinder is typically set up. These next few are when I make the grind coarser.
    20160331_133400.jpg
    20160331_133432.jpg
    20160331_133443.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    I've seen a lot worse Dave, how was the taste test?
    Bitter boardering on a burnt taste light acidity no floral notes. All in all quite nasty. When I added milk and sugar I could still get a bit of a nasty bitter finish on the back of the tongue.
    This second lot was not bad high acidity and sour but not unpleasant, nutty on the taste and a long smooth finish. However not liking that initial sour taste and the lingering sour taste that keeps making me salivate as I write this reply.

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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by MadForCoffee View Post
    Oh Dave, are you still using the VST 18gram basket? These are designed to a specific dose so you might be better off sticking to the intended dosage +/-1g. Using too much coffee and it will hit/expand into the shower screen, which wouldn't help your extraction.
    Im dosing in exactly 18 grams and loading that into the group. It still is hitting the shower screen I can see the marks of the netting and the round band of the shower screen on the spent puck.



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