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Thread: coffee in the nude

  1. #1
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    coffee in the nude

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    Got a bottomless portafilter yesterday, and this is my first extraction with it.
    to be honest, i was expecting it to be a lot worse!



    Be gentle, it was my first time.

  2. #2
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Mmmmmm tasty Looks good to me!
    FWIW - I've always focused on the flavour, rather than the "one hole is not flowing the same as all the others - down the sink it goes!" obsession with a naked pour. Naked's do add some clarity and sparkle to the flavour IMHO - but loose a little body.
    But they are fun to watch too

    So have fun!
    Cheers Matt
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    Thanks Matt.
    I agree - taste is my primary concern when making coffee, and trying different things this morning equated in me having 4 doubles before 8am.
    All in the name of science, of course!
    Despite not all holes firing at once, the coffee was consistently acceptalble.

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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    I'd call the extraction in the video a good start. The biggest problem looks to be distribution, but your tamp could need a bit of work too. In saying that, like you, I had a really enjoyable espresso on the weekend that was the product of a very poor naked PF extraction. So it's not an infallible indicator. If you're happy with the taste so far just use the naked PF as a training tool to improve your grind/dose/tamp technique. Then see if you can taste the difference as you get better.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allitnils View Post
    Thanks Matt.
    I agree - taste is my primary concern when making coffee, and trying different things this morning equated in me having 4 doubles before 8am.
    All in the name of science, of course!
    Despite not all holes firing at once, the coffee was consistently acceptalble.
    Some people get it, some don't, looks like one of them that does, nice looking shot.
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  6. #6
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    4:30 in the afternoon as I watch your video in my office... and I'm licking the screen and salivating like a Pavlov's Dog.

    'Nuff said

    Nice shot!
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  7. #7
    Senior Member 3rutu5's Avatar
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    So never using a bottomless PF, is there really a noticeable difference in taste from a normal PF? If there is a difference is that only with espressos

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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3rutu5 View Post
    So never using a bottomless PF, is there really a noticeable difference in taste from a normal PF? If there is a difference is that only with espressos
    I've never thought that there was any real difference in taste. However if I think about recent espressos and ristrettos I've had the really nice ones have all come from the naked PF when I've managed to get a really good extraction. It's far from scientific evidence, merely my experience, but considering I've never been biased towards them for anything other than perfecting technique and watching a pretty extraction then there could be something in it. It will be different for every situation though depending on the user, machine(s), coffee and other variables so take that into consideration.
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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    As I remarked in the thread on ECM/pre-infusion, if you expect it and want it to taste better then it will, personally I've noticed little difference.

    Good talking point at parties/get together's and novelty value, some use it as a diagnostic tool.

  10. #10
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    We have been experimenting with very long preinfusions of 20 sec (or more) with Slayer, GS3, R60V, Vesuvius and modded Linea Mini.

    When dosing low and fine, there is definitely something in the cup. The fun of experimentation is that you get to play, taste and choose.

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    I think the debate of naked vs. .. Clothed (?) extractions will always be, for the most part, anecdotal.
    In my opinion, it will depend on what you're comparing.
    A shot pulled from a naked portafilter will taste, to my untrained palate (and I imagine to the majority of home users) exactly the same as the exact same shot pulled from a not naked portafilter.
    the change in taste therefore is not on the tool you use, but on what minor alterations you make as shown by the naked pf, for it to work in your advantage.
    Yes: the taste will be the same. And if you are pulling absolutely perfect shot after perfect shot, a naked portafilter will be purely a cosmetic addition.
    however, in my case it revealed that my shots are channeling. Addressing these issues MIGHT make a difference in taste. Not the filter itself.
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  12. #12
    Senior Member Gavisconi007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    We have been experimenting with very long preinfusions of 20 sec (or more) with Slayer, GS3, R60V, Vesuvius and modded Linea Mini.

    When dosing low and fine, there is definitely something in the cup. The fun of experimentation is that you get to play, taste and choose.


    What sort of overall extraction time do you aim for Chris, and do you include the pre-infusion time in the overall count?

  13. #13
    Senior Member deegee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3rutu5 View Post
    So never using a bottomless PF, is there really a noticeable difference in taste from a normal PF? If there is a difference is that only with espressos
    I can't think of any reason why it should. If everything else is exactly the same the only difference is that the coffee is going directly into the cup from the basket, not being funneled through a spout or spouts. Unless of course you use e P/F and spout that is so dirty it affects the flavour. I sometimes think that there is a bit more crema with the naked, probably because some of it dissipates as it flows through a spout. However it all ends up in the cup, where it soon settles to much the same level anyway.

    I agree with Yelta on this one - it's a handy tool for improving your grind/dose/tamp skills, and will lead to better shots, but if you really really want to believe it tastes different just because it came from a naked P/F, then it probably will.

    I know a fellow who reckons that the beer always tastes better at a particular pub. That pub just happens to have topless barmaids, but he says that has nothing to do with it.
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  14. #14
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    No- it does. Coffee oxidises and pulls at a different temp against the metal of the conventional p/f when compared to a naked- more exposure to oxygen.

    Also- many use a triple with a naked- with the resultant influence on body...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    No- it does. Coffee oxidises and pulls at a different temp against the metal of the conventional p/f when compared to a naked- more exposure to oxygen.

    Also- many use a triple with a naked- with the resultant influence on body...
    Wait, what?
    The level of oxygen wouldn't change between a conventional and a naked portafilter.
    Perhaps the level of water vapor due to the heat retained by the conventional portafilter vs naked might influence the extraction, and thus taste?
    As a humble home user, my sample size of 2 coffees in the morning does no give me sufficient data to determine, considering how many variables i change from one coffee to the next.
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  16. #16
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    Meh, my naked filter is easier to clean and I can fit taller cups under it. That's good enough for me
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmadden91 View Post
    Meh, my naked filter is easier to clean
    the main reason i use it also....

  18. #18
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    coffee in the nude

    Quote Originally Posted by allitnils View Post
    A shot pulled from a naked portafilter will taste, to my untrained palate (and I imagine to the majority of home users) exactly the same as the exact same shot pulled from a not naked portafilter.
    the change in taste therefore is not on the tool you use, but on what minor alterations you make as shown by the naked pf, for it to work in your advantage.
    Yes: the taste will be the same. And if you are pulling absolutely perfect shot after perfect shot, a naked portafilter will be purely a cosmetic addition.
    however, in my case it revealed that my shots are channeling. Addressing these issues MIGHT make a difference in taste. Not the filter itself.
    This is the main factor that to me could make a difference. If you do a terrible job of grind/dose/tamp you'll know about it when using a naked PF. You might choose not to drink that coffee and start again. Using a standard PF hides all but the worst problems so it's not so much that a naked PF improves anything it's just a possible early indicator of how good a coffee might be and reduces the likelihood of drinking an average coffee. The only other semi-related factor is that unless you pull the basket out of your standard PF every time to clean everything a naked PF could be cleaner.

    The other thing to consider is that there is usually a greater amount of metal in a standard PF. Most people would consider this a good thing, especially on a machine with good temp stability that is properly warmed up. That's why when I converted one of my PFs to be naked I removed as little material as possible. When it comes down to it I still think it's more of a training tool, or something that looks prettier or is easier to clean.

  19. #19
    Senior Member deegee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    No- it does. Coffee oxidises and pulls at a different temp against the metal of the conventional p/f when compared to a naked- more exposure to oxygen..
    Now we are really splitting hairs (bigtime !!) Or is it Nit-picking (again). But then I should have expected it.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by deegee View Post
    Now we are really splitting hairs (bigtime !!) Or is it Nit-picking (again). But then I should have expected it.
    If you can't taste any difference, it's nothing to you anyway- so don't worry about it. Do whatever works for you.

    Hope your comment made you feel good.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    If you can't taste any difference, it's nothing to you anyway- so don't worry about it. Do whatever works for you.
    agree completely with this comment.
    I'm guilty of many supersticious rituals in many aspects of life. Do they make a difference? Probably not, but I think they do. And at the end of the day, I'm starting each morning with a cup of coffee I enjoy.
    Not because I have a naked portafilter or because I spent over $2000 on a machine, but because I like the taste of coffee.
    And the extra 'quirks' that I perform, and the hairs that I might split.. well .. They add to the personal experience.
    whether they contribute to the taste or not .. it's the journey of getting the coffee in the cup.. (although if the end result is improved, then all the power to you!)
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  22. #22
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    No- it does. Coffee oxidises and pulls at a different temp against the metal of the conventional p/f when compared to a naked- more exposure to oxygen.

    Also- many use a triple with a naked- with the resultant influence on body...
    Have you tried a naked PF with an Energy Polarizer yet Chris?
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    No- it does. Coffee oxidises and pulls at a different temp against the metal of the conventional p/f when compared to a naked- more exposure to oxygen.

    Also- many use a triple with a naked- with the resultant influence on body...
    G'day Talk_Coffee

    I have been using a naked P/F at home for years. As espresso our blind tasting revealed a noticeable difference (read improvement) in texture as well as taste. Adding milk - no difference in texture (not a surprise there). The taste was still better, although not as "hit you over the head" obvious.

    I prefer to look at it from the other direction - can someone please explain how pushing your precious freshly extracting coffee through another process (i.e. sliding through the metal gaps of a "standard p/f") can possibly improve it? If it can't, then why do it?

    Whether your reason explains it I do not know, however I can fully agree that it is better "in the cup" and AFAIAC that is all that matters.

    To those who say that is only because you can see what the shot is doing - maybe, however even when we controlled for all other variables the naked still gave a better result unanimously during the blind tests.

    Enjoy your cuppa - the rest is either striving for excellence or BS...


    TampIt

  24. #24
    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Have you tried a naked PF with an Energy Polarizer yet Chris?
    Might've been new age snake oil - but he was still one helluva dri… barista though



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