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Thread: Kickstarter campaigns for coffee brewers crowdfunding equivalent of Nigerian scams.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Kickstarter campaigns for coffee brewers crowdfunding equivalent of Nigerian scams.

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Once again Alan Frew of Coffee for Connoisseurs has hit the nail on the head with this excerpt from his latest newsletter.

    I've always been highly suspicious of these begging projects, people are basically saying, I've got a surefire idea, but I ain't gonna risk any of my own cash on it.

    "October 2016 Newsletter

    Kickstarter campaigns for coffee brewers seem to be the crowdfunding
    equivalent of Nigerian scams. To the best of my knowledge there
    hasn't been a single brewer brought to market and all the eager
    people who opened their wallets have done their dough cold.

    The granddaddy of these projects was the 2011 ZPM Nocturn Espresso
    Machine, which raised just under US$1,000,000 with Kickstarter and
    pre-delivery sales, and delivered nothing. The original premise was
    a PID temperature and pressure profiling machine with a 58mm group
    for US$300.00. In the end the technology (such as it was) was sold
    to Decent Espresso who have been promising to have a machine for
    sale for just under US$1000.00 any day now.

    This was followed by the Arist Superauto machine, which raised
    around US$800,000 for an again all-singing all-dancing $300.00
    production. This was a scam from day one, the founders had no
    prospect of delivering the promised features at the quoted price
    point. They were marketers and designers with zero real world
    espresso machine experience. Basically they thought of every
    desirable feature a superautomatic should have, then said "Yeah! Our
    machine will do that!" with absolutely no idea of the engineering
    involved.

    Then there are those who see crowdfunding as simply a method to
    raise sufficient money to bring their bright idea to the attention
    of venture capital firms, ala the Invergo drip brewer. Which was a
    good idea except some guy in Taiwan was already making an
    equivalent, and it was also similar enough to another company's
    technology for a patent infringement suite.

    Novel technology like the 2014 La Fenice induction heated espresso
    machine got heaps of publicity and lots of contributions, but 2
    years on not a single machine has been shipped. One thing that many
    of the designers and builders of the machines often forget is the
    need for official certification, a lengthy and costly process. Any
    time you are attempting to combine water, heating and electricity a
    government organization will need to be involved before you are
    allowed to sell a single unit.

    In the meantime, companies like Breville, which already have the
    experienced staff, will have produced a mass market machine with 95%
    of the functionality and have it for sale in retail stores. So my
    advice is that the next time a coffee brewing machine Kickstarter
    campaign pops up, ignore it!"


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  2. #2
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    To the best of my knowledge, the Cold Bruer has been brought to market. As have small components for manual setups (e.g. filter disks for Aeropress). Would I fund someone trying to build an espresso machine? Nope.
    Last edited by Barry O'Speedwagon; 5th October 2016 at 04:48 PM. Reason: punctuation
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  3. #3
    TC
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    My favourites are the "fund my cafe build/fund my coffee roaster purchase and I'll donate x% of profit to Y..."

    Yeah- sure thing...

  4. #4
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    My favourites are the "fund my cafe build/fund my coffee roaster purchase and I'll donate x% of profit to Y..."

    Yeah- sure thing...
    You mean I could've used someone else's money.. instead of my own!!!! And had a holiday as well!!

    And all that hard work and late nights could've been avoided??? :-0 :-D

  5. #5
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Yep, I went to the bank manager the other day and said 'I'd like to borrow $10,000'. He asked 'what are you going to spend it on?', to which I replied 'Friday night'. He showed me the door.
    Andy, Dimal, SniffCoffee and 4 others like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    My favourites are the "fund my cafe build/fund my coffee roaster purchase and I'll donate x% of profit to Y..."

    Yeah- sure thing...
    Agreed Chris. Setting up my business was a result of me investing my own money and borrowing a little (plus working full time and growing a business on the side) not asking for others to donate so I can set up a business to make money for myself. So many these days just expect everyone else to help them out, not actually put in some hard work and make numerous sacrifices.
    Dimal and TC like this.

  7. #7
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    You guys have started something.

    I want a Speedster.

    :-D
    kbc and TC like this.

  8. #8
    TC
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    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    I want a Speedster...
    Agreed. Me too...

    Would look awesome for deliveries
    Porsche-Speedster-7.jpg
    Dimal and kbc like this.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    Great post Yelta.
    Crowdfunding is hit and miss. A $300 PID controlled, pressure profiling machine is always going to be a miss. It's just amazing that people will throw money at a pipe dream like that.
    There have been some recent success'. The Trinity One from Aussie Mark (pic below) is one of them. Many of you would have seen this at MICE.
    Morning Paul,

    Hmmmmm, Trinity One! looks to me like an up market Aeropress, but what would I know?

  10. #10
    Senior Member gonzo89's Avatar
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    Having tried it in the flesh, much better than an Aeropress. Of course price may be a concern, I understand it is a showpiece as much as it is a multi-brewer. However, I will defend it's capabilities and its stunning looks. For those who can afford it and appreciate design, it's a beauty.
    Magic_Matt, kbc and shortblackman like this.

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    Trinity one is also a pour over device and a cold brewer. I love the look and the idea. I have one arriving soon!!! Aeropress I've never been hugely into. That function is a bonus for me with this one.

  12. #12
    Senior Member gonzo89's Avatar
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    I love brewing with all different methods when I've got a particular bean I'm more curious to explore. I don't use my Aeropress as much as pourover, syphon, stovetop or espresso. When I find a bean with a particularly complex aroma I will reach for the Aeropress as it is my preferred method for drawing out the cleanest aroma of a bean. No other method seems to do it as well as the AP (using a mesh filter). The Trinity will make a lovely addition to the collection of brewers. I too have one arriving soon.

  13. #13
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Morning Paul,

    Hmmmmm, Trinity One! looks to me like an up market Aeropress, but what would I know?
    Why the rolleyes? Seems fairly distinct from an aeropress to me.

    But I only know as little as you, having not used one...
    Dimal likes this.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    To sum up, it appears that Mr Frew didn't look too hard when he went searching for brewers that we advertised on Kickstarter that have actually been brought to market. No surprise that they are at the low-tech, modest economies of scale end of things.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    I reckon Alan got it pretty well spot on.

    Today's must have coffee device is tomorrows dust collector, remember a while back when syphon's were all the go, can be had pretty cheap now, even noticed an Aeropress in the local SH store a while back for $5

  16. #16
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    I reckon Alan got it pretty well spot on.

    Today's must have coffee device is tomorrows dust collector, remember a while back when syphon's were all the go, can be had pretty cheap now, even noticed an Aeropress in the local SH store a while back for $5
    '
    I don't disagree with what you say here, Yelta, but I don't see how that make Alan's assertion that to the best of his knowledge 'there hasn't been a single brewer brought to market'.

  17. #17
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    I reckon Alan got it pretty well spot on.

    Today's must have coffee device is tomorrows dust collector, remember a while back when syphon's were all the go, can be had pretty cheap now, even noticed an Aeropress in the local SH store a while back for $5
    You're conflating two things Yelta. Poor concepts trying to kickstart are very different to fun trends, or, in the case of Aeropress, excellent brewing methods.

    There's still room for innovation in coffee, even if (and you make it clear very often) it's not your cup of tea.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    You're conflating two things Yelta. Poor concepts trying to kickstart are very different to fun trends, or, in the case of Aeropress, excellent brewing methods.

    There's still room for innovation in coffee, even if (and you make it clear very often) it's not your cup of tea.
    Thanks Al, it's always nice to receive positive affirmation re communication skills.

    Conflation! don't thinks so, kickstarting, trends, excellent brewing methods are not necessarily mutually exclusive, it's simply a fact that the stars seldom align and we don't often see all three in the one product.

  19. #19
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    If you'd made that point (and now that you have) I'd happily agree!

  20. #20
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    I can think of at least 3 - The Cold Bruer, Trinity One and The Brew Over. The Cold Bruer would be the most successful of the lot. It looks like the Handground grinder is going to make it as well. In reality that's quite a low success rate, but it's probably not that different to normal business. The only difference is that due to Kickstarter and similar resources we now all hear about failed proposals and ventures that never made it outside boardroom walls and office doors in the past. It's a platform that has provided a great alternative source of finance for start ups, but people need to be realistic about it. It's definitely going to be used by flash in the pan dreamers.

  21. #21
    TC
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    Perhaps Alan was using the term brewer in the context of espresso machine. Given the content of his newsletter, replace one word and it's actually bang on.

    Crowdfunding has been successful for some lower $ projects such as grinders and manual methods. Espresso machines? Nope...and many who attempt something clearly know sweet FA about how to go about building one and costing production.

    We have funded the Handground grinder and some manual methods which managed to get to the finishing post. No way would I fund an espresso machine regardless of holy grail promises.
    Dimal, gonzo89 and readeral like this.

  22. #22
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    Hi all

    A very interesting discussion! I thought I'd add my insight as a Kickstarter project creator and inventor of Trinity ONE.

    In my experience, the crowd funding approach has not been an 'easy road' option. As a start up business, I found banks were not interested in funding, and I certainly didn't have a spare $100,000+ lying around to get the project going! Hence, I think that crowd funding can offer fantastic avenues for start ups to put their ideas out there and get start-up funding from the end-user directly. Of course, there is absolutely no obligation for people to back the projects, and they should be seen for their merits based on the information provided by the project creators

    Finally, regarding some of the differences between Trinity ONE and AeroPress - apart from it's design and form, I think there are 2 key aspects which I look forward to customers experiencing for themselves:

    Non-bypass filter - AeroPress lets fines through into the cup (when you hear the 'hiss') due to gaps above the filter around the perimeter of the cap. Trinity is clean and has no bypass - the results are much more like a V60 based on feedback I have had to date.


    Weighted Cylinder - weighted cylinder means constant pressure, and repeatable results. It's one extra step in the brew process that can be controlled, and repeated every time.

    Cheers
    Mark

  23. #23
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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Welcome to CS Mark.

    Thanks for your post.

    Must be nearing the finish line now! You beauty!
    matth3wh likes this.



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