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Thread: Which lever machine? Profitec 800 vs new Londinium R

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    Which lever machine? Profitec 800 vs new Londinium R

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    hi all,

    I had been itching to upgrade to a Lever machine recently. I'm starting to drink a bit more espresso where as previously I had been drinking exclusively flat white. I also found the romance of physically pulling the lever irresistible. Just a bit of background about myself. I currently has Alex Duetto III and previously had a La Nuova Cuadra HX. I usually only make 1-2 cups at one time and the most I'll do is 5-6 cups when I have guests over. I actually preferred the taste of my coffee coming from HX more than my Duetto. I found the HX coffee has more complex flavour (sometimes good and sometimes bad) even though the Cuadra is a bit tricky to get the temp right sometimes. So I have narrowed down to these 2 machines because I preferred 58mm portafilter because I had spend a small fortune on accessory already.

    I know it's dipper vs TS. I preferred a short startup time say 30mins. I preferred the look of the Londinium but I don't like some of its quirks like the drip tray, no cup warmer etc. I've watched a video on Youtube that measures the basket temperature during the shot using a scace device and it goes from 200.6F at the start of the shot and it goes down to about 190 F (87 C) at the end of the shot. Is that range acceptable?? Also would I have any trouble getting it service here in OZ?? I would like to hear from the snobs about the pros and cons of these 2 machines. I know the R is not out yet.

    Many thanks
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    The Londinium is an upgraded design involving what I believe is a new rotary pump. I will be interested to hear performance and reliability feedback on the upgraded design and new pump.

    Pro800 has been covered in various levels of depth on CS, HB etc....

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    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vlkcheng View Post
    hi all,

    I had been itching to upgrade to a Lever machine recently.

    I preferred 58mm portafilter because I had spend a small fortune on accessory already.



    Many thanks
    Don't sell yourself short, vlkcheng !!

    If you're going to spend on a lever then surely having a 58mm tamper turned down to 55mm is a mere trifle and that's all you'll need to do.

    If you're serious about best lever, best service and best support then the Alex Leva with La San Marco group is your only choice.

    Why disadvantage yourself for the sake of $20 or so?
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    Hi Chokkidog, I forgotten to mention my wife won't allow me to plumb in the machine nor drilling holes through the kitchen granite benchtop. Also the benchtop where there's no above head cupboards is a long way away from the sink/tap. Yes, the rotary pump and adjustable pre-infusion pressure on the Londinium R is interesting. Reliability is definitely high on my priority.

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    Senior Member BalthazarG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    Don't sell yourself short, vlkcheng !!

    If you're going to spend on a lever then surely having a 58mm tamper turned down to 55mm is a mere trifle and that's all you'll need to do.

    If you're serious about best lever, best service and best support then the Alex Leva with La San Marco group is your only choice.

    Why disadvantage yourself for the sake of $20 or so?
    Having read vlkcheng's post, I detect he may desire to move on from Duetto altogether, however +1 on the Alex Leva, chokkidog. Have heard nothing but great things about it!

    Plus there is local support for this model. However, the Alex Leva needs plumbing, so it looks like the Londinium-1 (with rotary pump) is your best bet.

    If you're not happy with the L-1, then you'll have to summon all your reserves of courage, be Man of the House, and tell your darling wife (in soothing dulcet tones) that there's to be no coffee without some plumbing done first. If your wife still won't budge, proceed regardless.

    Besides, you can always make it up to her with a little weekend getaway (picnic, winery tour, etc.). Or, whisk her off to see La La Land (brilliant movie, unless you're ultra-cynical and hate that sort of thing).

    She'll be swooning, and wondering what on earth it was you ever fought about in the first place.
    Last edited by BalthazarG; 14th January 2017 at 08:30 PM.

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    Senior Member matth3wh's Avatar
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    Which lever machine? Profitec 800 vs new Londinium R

    No space for a coffee station and hidden flojet somewhere?
    Last edited by matth3wh; 14th January 2017 at 09:04 PM.
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    Senior Member BalthazarG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    ...or.... new wife .
    +10!!!

    If I ever have a live-in girlfriend or wife telling me what I can or can't do/say/buy, she'll disappear faster than a plate of jam donuts at a Weight Watchers meeting.

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    Senior Member Gavisconi007's Avatar
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    The LSM group head is one heavy solid lump of metal and the dual spring mechanism is superb. Channelling is virtually non-existent. The best coffees I've ever had have been coming from the LSM group head on my Izzo Pompei for several months now.
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    Senior Member BalthazarG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavisconi007 View Post
    The LSM group head is one heavy solid lump of metal and the dual spring mechanism is superb. Channelling is virtually non-existent. The best coffees I've ever had have been coming from the LSM group head on my Izzo Pompei for several months now.
    I'm sure it's a wonderful machine, Gavisconi.

    However, considering 1) the OP is trying to keep costs down, and 2) the formerly named Pompei (rebranded as the 'Izzo') retails for a risible $7500, it'll explode his budget to utter smithereens (and likely won't produce coffee that's any better than the models already mentioned).

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    Quote Originally Posted by BalthazarG View Post
    +10!!!

    If I ever have a live-in girlfriend or wife telling me what I can or can't do/say/buy, she'll disappear faster than a plate of jam donuts at a Weight Watchers meeting.
    Ah, I guess you've heard of, "happy wife, happy life..." Well, some wise old man recently told me, "no wife, better life..."

    Jokes aside. Seriously I'm prepared to put up with filling my tank and emptying the drip tray every 4th cup of coffee if she lets me buy another espresso machine, oh and maybe another grinder. I've been doing that since I own a coffee machine. I'll probably only gain 5% more in terms of taste with the lever. I was more after the whole hands-on lever experience. I do prefer rotary pump because they are generally quieter. I can't imagine LSM grouphead is head and shoulder better than CMA grouphead. I also found since I've been using the Pullman Pertemp and VST basket, I'm getting almost no channeling around the rim. Another reason why I want to keep it to the 58mm basket. Any snobs out there know which grouphead (dipper vs thermosiphon) is more temperature stable if lets say if my extraction took longer than usual (ie: over-extraction)? and which one is quicker to get to desired temperature at start-up? Many thanks for your opinion.
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    Senior Member BalthazarG's Avatar
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    Ah, I guess you've heard of, "happy wife, happy life..."
    I am indeed acquainted with that one! I also know that Neville Chamberlain once tried to appease Hitler - and look how that turned out!

    To me the expression implies an unrelenting life sentence of acquiescence, suffering, mollification, and one's balls being clenched in a vice.

    Any snobs out there know which grouphead (dipper vs thermosiphon) is more temperature stable
    Dipper

    In a dipper machine water travels to the group head from the boiler, via the dipper. The water is superheated based on the boiler pressure/temperature.

    As most groups are fine-tuned for continuous cafe use, they idle the majority of the time in a home environment, and so require pulling a shot or two to reach the optimal temp. The hotter the group idles, the longer the time needed between shots.

    Thermosyphon

    The group is heated by hot water circulating from the boiler, via the thermosyphon. Which means it takes the cooler water from the thermosyphon first before the superheated water from the boiler.

    An idle group often requires a short flush to restart the thermosyphon.

    Summary:

    Either machine requires a little knowledge and fine-tuning to maintain the proper group heating. However, if forced to choose, I would probably advise you to go with the thermosyphon option; it's basically walk-up-and-pull.

    But it's more a subtle difference of degree than kind, and it really depends on how many coffees you intend to make on a daily basis. Both groups should probably be flushed anyway to keep the shower screen clear.

    Hope that helps!
    Last edited by BalthazarG; 14th January 2017 at 11:08 PM.

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    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    I was wondering why you didn't look at the Alex options, but all makes sense without the plumb in option! And having invested in 58mm gear, those baskets and tampers aren't chump change I suppose - even if it's less than 10% of a machine, it's still decent money.

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    Problem i have with machines like the Profitec Pro800 is they are overpriced in the Australian Market. These are very straightforward espresso machines. Pro800 in the USA is $2,500, and is priced lower than the Pro700

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    Senior Member BalthazarG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melbroaster View Post
    Problem i have with machines like the Profitec Pro800 is they are overpriced in the Australian Market. These are very straightforward espresso machines. Pro800 in the USA is $2,500, and is priced lower than the Pro700
    As long as people continue to be born yesterday, and keep buying the machines at those prices, things will keep merrily kicking on the way they have been.

    Meanwhile, retailers will continue spewing PR guff such as "commercial grade parts" and "enhanced engineering capability" to justify the markups.

    At the end of the day, the situation boils down to the gross profit margin. Which means money moving from your pocket to somebody else's pocket. That's all it is.
    Last edited by BalthazarG; 15th January 2017 at 03:15 AM.

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    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BalthazarG View Post
    As long as people continue to be born yesterday, and keep buying the machines at those prices, things will keep merrily kicking on the way they have been.

    Meanwhile, retailers will continue spewing PR guff such as "commercial grade parts" and "enhanced engineering capability" to justify the markups.

    At the end of the day, the situation boils down to the gross profit margin. Which means money moving from your pocket to somebody else's pocket. That's all it is.
    So, do you reckon that Aust importer/wholesaler/retailers have significantly different net margin to their overseas equivalents? You can't stick gross profit in your back pocket (or its cash flow equivalent), and the overheads and labour involved in providing service and warranty in a small market (i.e. Australia) are not trivial. Anyway, if anyone thinks there abnormal profits being made....they are free to jump in with $$$ and compete.......buggered if I'd do it.
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    Senior Member BalthazarG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    So, do you reckon that Aust importer/wholesaler/retailers have significantly different net margin to their overseas equivalents?
    Nope, was just being waggish.

    Yucks aside, I absolutely agree with you that there are significant costs involved in the production and sale of espresso machines (including materials used, direct labour, packaging, freight, manufacturer salaries, insurance, advertising and promotion etc. etc.).

    My point wasn't so much that local retailers are screwing us, more that when all is said and done/weighed up/factored, it still boils down to several considerations: expenses need to be accounted for; a profit needs to be made somewhere along the line; and that commodities will be sold for what consumers are prepared to pay for them. Basically what's been happening since time immemorial.

    It doesn't bother me one way or another, because it's all just supply and demand (and everything in between). I'd no sooner blame a retailer for the price of a particular espresso machine than I'd bitch about a financial newspaper promoting an overvalued stock. Nobody's forcing me to buy either.

    As far as I'm concerned, if the goods are at fair market price, then they're fair game.
    Last edited by BalthazarG; 15th January 2017 at 03:14 AM. Reason: ii

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    $2500 usa dollars which is the current pro800 price in the usa is $3,333 australian dollars. That still doesnt stop the pro800 currently retailing in Australia for approx $4,500 to $5,000 depending on which site you are looking at. For both countries it needs to be shipped from Europe, for both countries a warranty needs to be supplied and for both countries it is a low volume sales proposition. Yep the Australian market is unfortunately bearing a far higher price for machines like this than it should. In comparison the La Marzocco Linea Mini is cheaper in Australia than the USA after currency conversion. Many other brands of espresso machines are long overdue to have their importer margins adjusted downwards in Australia. Consumers should vote with their wallets....
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    Senior Member LFM60's Avatar
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    I wouldn't want to be a retailer/wholesaler of coffee machines in Australia. It would be a frustrating business riddled with red tape, importation rules, currency fluctuations etc.

    If I bought a new good quality HX machine and grinder tomorrow, they would pay for themselves in 12 months based on my wife's and my consumption and takeaway coffee prices. Anything beyond that is a bonus having home made coffee whenever we want. Another bonus is 12 month old machines which should last for years.

    That is not including fuel to get there so isn't a true indication.

    There is the option of buying near new equipment at a reduced price if new is unattainable.

    A lever machine (to stay on topic) would pay for itself in 18 months.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Melbroaster View Post
    $2500 usa dollars which is the current pro800 price in the usa is $3,333 australian dollars. That still doesnt stop the pro800 currently retailing in Australia for approx $4,500 to $5,000 depending on which site you are looking at. For both countries it needs to be shipped from Europe, for both countries a warranty needs to be supplied and for both countries it is a low volume sales proposition. Yep the Australian market is unfortunately bearing a far higher price for machines like this than it should. In comparison the La Marzocco Linea Mini is cheaper in Australia than the USA after currency conversion. Many other brands of espresso machines are long overdue to have their importer margins adjusted downwards in Australia. Consumers should vote with their wallets....
    Im afraid thats life - look at buying a car or computer equipment compared to US prices

    For my money - I am very happy buying locally (Talk Coffee) and the fantastic after sales service I received.

    I cannot imagine the frustration of trying to deal with someone I dont know in Europe over a warranty /repair issue, organising transport back to Europe etc

    They may be more expensive here, but for me it was money well spent

    Cheers
    Dr Dave
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    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Which lever machine? Profitec 800 vs new Londinium R

    It won't go all the way, but US sales tax is overlooked by Australians all the time when it comes to these conversions. Depending on where, total sales tax can be up to 12%USD. Also, re: importing - the shipping is twice the distance and via different canals = likely different shipping tolls - just cause its ex-Italy doesn't mean it costs the same.
    And who knows what FTAs and import duties come into play for different countries, let alone the ability for one importer in one country to negotiate better prices compared to another importer in another country.

    Feel free to question your prices, and negotiate your price if you want, but I wouldn't assume that importers are laughing all the way to the bank. The euro has been a mess over the past 5 years - there's gotta be a buffer somewhere, otherwise you'll be seeking support from a business that no longer exists.
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    Dr Dave and Readeral re-read my post. No one is talking about dealing with overseas sellers and any taxes and other costs would be common to the majority of machines. The Linea Mini is hand built in Italy, and is cheaper to buy in Australia from an authorised la marzocco dealer than it is to buy in the usa from an authorised la marzocco dealer. Other importers are also far more fair to the Australian consumer. The Rancilio silvia is another machine that costs similar or a bit less to buy in australia from an authorised dealer than in the usa from an authorised dealer. Some importers simply choose to price equipment in the australian market because the market is willing to pay inflated prices. Simple as that.
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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Fact, retailers hate people who bypass them and import widgets themselves.

    Also a fact, people will continue to do it, some will win (them that do the research and know what they are doing) others will come undone big time, plenty of traps for the unwary.

    This topic comes up pretty regularly, little is ever resolved.
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    Definitely not the case for the Pro 800. I know this machine like the back of my hand as it's my home machine. Once the Pro 800 group gets to a stable temperature it will sit there all day. It reaches equilibrium in much the same way a thermosyphon group does. ie, gets to a point where it looses heat to the environment at the same rate as it gains heat from the machine,
    The last thing you want to so is run any heating flush before use. You just walk up to it any time and pull a shot.
    The only thing you need to do is wait approx 2-3 minutes between shots to allow the group to cool back down to its "equilibrium" temp. This was shown in SCACE testing (see link I posted earlier).
    I have thermal stickers on the side of the group and use them as a daily guide. These are a great idea.
    Cheers, Paul
    Thanks Paul, that was helpful information. There is a lot of guess work involved guessing what the brew temperature is with these machines. Cooling flush/ warming flush or no flush. How long do you have to wait in general before you can pull your 1st shot with the Pro800??

  24. #24
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melbroaster View Post
    Dr Dave and Readeral re-read my post. No one is talking about dealing with overseas sellers and any taxes and other costs would be common to the majority of machines. The Linea Mini is hand built in Italy, and is cheaper to buy in Australia from an authorised la marzocco dealer than it is to buy in the usa from an authorised la marzocco dealer. Other importers are also far more fair to the Australian consumer. The Rancilio silvia is another machine that costs similar or a bit less to buy in australia from an authorised dealer than in the usa from an authorised dealer. Some importers simply choose to price equipment in the australian market because the market is willing to pay inflated prices. Simple as that.
    I wasn't talking about dealing with overseas sellers either, dunno how you got that impression. I'm saying - you can't compare the US price and say we got stiffed by importers. To boot, operating margins would be wildly different between here and the States, given we have a decent minimum wage. Every step of the process (unpacking, benchtesting, through to the courier) costs more in Australia. FWIW, the volumes of Rancilio Silvias sold probably eclipses many other machines, and is likely imported by a number of different people which brings significant competition (and much lower margin per unit - I doubt the Silvia is assisting a reseller bottom line much, hence up-selling services like adding PIDs). The Linea is probably priced in it's market by La Marzocco (as far as I know the margins are pretty mighty slim on La Marzoccos as well - thus able to be relatively controlled) - and anyway, who's to say the La Marzocco isn't over-inflated in both markets? A $5000 double boiler...

    You've highlighted two machines that are cheaper here than the US - so why not go out and buy one of those two machines?
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    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BalthazarG View Post
    Big deal. That's about as constructive as hating someone else for getting rich from investing, when you're stuck with a bum 9-5 job.
    Might be about as constructive, but not nearly as analogous.
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    It is a big deal when someone imports a machine then expects the retailers to repair/calibrate their machines knowing they lost a sale due to said customer wanting to save a few dollars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kyeba View Post
    It is a big deal when someone imports a machine then expects the retailers to repair/calibrate their machines knowing they lost a sale due to said customer wanting to save a few dollars.
    Why would the retailer not charge $ for this work?
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  28. #28
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deity6667 View Post
    Why would the retailer not charge $ for this work?
    They do, but the service is simply paying for the $1000s of R&D spent getting to know the machines - normally recouped as factored in to the initial sale. It's not a great value proposition for a business to service these machines, rather it's a contact point to give a great customer experience and hopefully win their business for future purchases.

    So basically, although charging for the service, overall what it means for everyone else is less revenue going into operating profits that allow newer/future machines to come to the Aus market.
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    Senior Member Gavisconi007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BalthazarG View Post
    I'm sure it's a wonderful machine, Gavisconi.

    However, considering 1) the OP is trying to keep costs down, and 2) the formerly named Pompei (rebranded as the 'Izzo') retails for a risible $7500, it'll explode his budget to utter smithereens (and likely won't produce coffee that's any better than the models already mentioned).

    Thanks Balthazar. I was more making the point that the LSM group head is extremely stable and consistent. Wasn't suggesting the OP should rush out and buy an Izzo.

  30. #30
    Senior Member BalthazarG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavisconi007 View Post
    Thanks Balthazar. I was more making the point that the LSM group head is extremely stable and consistent. Wasn't suggesting the OP should rush out and buy an Izzo.
    Fair enough! No worries, all good.

  31. #31
    Senior Member BalthazarG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    Might be about as constructive, but not nearly as analogous.
    It's immaterial. The point I was making is that hating a situation doesn't change it.

    It is a big deal when someone imports a machine then expects the retailers to repair/calibrate their machines knowing they lost a sale due to said customer wanting to save a few dollars.
    Ok, but like deity6667 alluded to, obviously the retailers would still be paid by the importer to repair and/or recalibrate the machine. It's all money - why turn it away? A service is a service, and business is business.

    Whinging about wasted R&D doesn't change that one iota, and is about as smart as a jeweller refusing to alter the size of a walk-in customer's ring merely because the customer didn't buy the ring from their outfit.

    Generally if a person wants to import a machine, they tend to be bloody stubborn about it, and are unlikely to be persuaded otherwise. Which means what?

    Well, it means that the retailer was always going to lose that sale, well before it even went down. Let's call a spade a spade - it's pretty tough to lose a sale you never had Buckley's chance of making in the first place.

    That's not to say that the twit importing the machine is the party being wronged in this situation; merely that, IMHO, it's better for a retailer to hedge their bets, and not be so dismissive and indignant toward prospective clients.

    If I was stupid enough to import a machine (only to realise the factory settings needed rejigging), and a retailer did a bang up job on it, I'd be likely to both recommend their skills to others, and also purchase items from that retailer in the future. Especially once I realised I would have been far better off buying locally in the first place.
    Last edited by BalthazarG; 15th January 2017 at 09:33 PM.

  32. #32
    Site Sponsor Casa Espresso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BalthazarG View Post
    I'm sure it's a wonderful machine, Gavisconi.

    However, considering 1) the OP is trying to keep costs down, and 2) the formerly named Pompei (rebranded as the 'Izzo') retails for a risible $7500, it'll explode his budget to utter smithereens (and likely won't produce coffee that's any better than the models already mentioned).
    I'm not sure where you are getting your pricing from but the Izzo Alex leva has an RRP of under $5000 with a street price closer to $4000. Certainly not $7500
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    Senior Member BalthazarG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casa Espresso View Post
    I'm not sure where you are getting your pricing from but the Izzo Alex leva has an RRP of under $5000 with a street price closer to $4000. Certainly not $7500
    No, I was actually referring to the Izzo Pompeii (which I believe is now referred to as 'The Izzo' (by Gruppo Izzo).

    But yes, if we're talking about the Izzo Alex Leva, that one indeed retails for about $4,000. No arguments there.

  34. #34
    Site Sponsor Casa Espresso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BalthazarG View Post
    No, I was actually referring to the Izzo Pompeii (which I believe is now referred to as 'The Izzo' (by Gruppo Izzo).

    But yes, if we're talking about the Izzo Alex Leva, that one indeed retails for about $4,000. No arguments there.
    In my opinion the Alex leva is the competitor with the Londinium and the Pro800.

    The Izzo Pompeii you are referring to is a commercial machine also available in two and three group

  35. #35
    Senior Member BalthazarG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casa Espresso View Post
    In my opinion the Alex leva is the competitor with the Londinium and the Pro800.

    The Izzo Pompeii you are referring to is a commercial machine also available in two and three group
    I'm aware of what the Izzo Pompeii is, but the OP is trying to keep costs down (and that ain't on the cheaper end of the scale).

    The Alex Leva would also be my first choice. However, there's also the option of the Pro 800.
    Last edited by BalthazarG; 15th January 2017 at 10:33 PM. Reason: Misinformation

  36. #36
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    The Alex Leva does not need to be plumbed! Period.

    Even tho' the OP probably won't go for it, and that's their perogative, plenty of others will read this thread and be mislead by people who just don't know.

    The Alex can run off a water bottle and Flojet as already mentioned by matth3wh

    I have had my Alex Leva for 4 years approx, it's plumbed into mains water and the waste to the waste water

    and it sits happily on a Caesarstone bench and there are NO HOLES IN THE BENCH!!

    Think laterally people and don't talk out of second hand knowledge

    I had one of the original Londiniums on my bench for around three months..... I'd hope the latest incarnation has come a lot further than that.

    No way would I buy one.
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  37. #37
    Senior Member BalthazarG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    The Alex Leva does not need to be plumbed! Period.
    Moving on, it seems as if the Alex Leva might be the winner (as long as the OP's ok with the Flojet option). He prefers the look of the Londinium, but isn't thrilled about the cup warmer or drip tray.

    We're getting there...

  38. #38
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    What about the 58mm issue

  39. #39
    Senior Member BalthazarG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    What about the 58mm issue
    Oh Christ, I forgot about that! Round the merry-go-round spins.

    So Pro 800 then? I need a stiff drink, readeral. You a dab hand behind the bar?

  40. #40
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BalthazarG View Post
    Haha, oh Christ I forgot about that! Round the merry-go-round spins.

    So Pro 800 then?
    I honestly think it's the best fit if the op wants to retain the precision baskets.

  41. #41
    Site Sponsor Casa Espresso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    What about the 58mm issue
    The Izzo comes standard with a machined stainless 55mm tamper along with a naked group handle and four different steam tip options

  42. #42
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Personally I'm hanging out for ECM to bring out a leva... seems like they trial things under the Profi line (e.g. pro 700, T64) before refining them as ECM (Synchronika, P64 & Titan).

    That's my theory, anyhow. Doesn't really help the OP. On Pro 800 vs Londinium I'd've thought the Profi would be a logical choice for local support, but I haven't looked into the Londinium much. I did look at an Alex Leva before buying the Synchronika and TBH the inelegance of a flojet setup bothered me more than the 55mm group... love the cutouts/exposed spring. In the end it's all about quality in the cup though, and if the deeper group aids that then a few bux on baskets and machining a tamper wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.
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  43. #43
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casa Espresso View Post
    The Izzo comes standard with a machined stainless 55mm tamper along with a naked group handle and four different steam tip options
    I think the OP is more concerned about losing use of their precision baskets.
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  44. #44
    Senior Member BalthazarG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casa Espresso View Post
    The Izzo comes standard with a machined stainless 55mm portafilter along with a naked group handle and four different steam tip options
    Yes, but like the OP clearly stated at the beginning of the thread, he supposedly needs a 58mm portafilter because he's "spent a small fortune on accessories already".....??

    I don't know what the hell that means, but 1) it sounds bizarre, and 2) we're going round in effing circles.

    OP, where are you? Come out, come out, wherever you are!
    Last edited by BalthazarG; 15th January 2017 at 11:35 PM.
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  45. #45
    Site Sponsor Casa Espresso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    I think the OP is more concerned about losing use of their precision baskets.
    IMS do make precision 55mm baskets.

    But yes that would mean an extra cost purchasing them.

  46. #46
    Senior Member BalthazarG's Avatar
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    Guys, I don't know who's been smoking what, or who necked 10 pints before logging on, but we're seriously getting off track here. Time to switch on the old brain for a change.

    The OP never said anything about precision baskets. What he said was that he'd prefer to buy an espresso machine requiring a 58mm portafilter (because he's already got one at home, and would rather not have to buy a new 55mm portafilter to suit the needs of his new machine).

    The cost of a new portafilter, to put it politely, is infinitesimal when compared with the excess of $3,000 the OP would already be spending on his new lever widget. But who am I to argue with him? He has his own reasons, and that's that.

    The Alex Leva is ruled out due to being fitted with a standard 55mm portafilter, so let's now find him a sensible alternative.
    Last edited by BalthazarG; 15th January 2017 at 11:34 PM.

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    Having a flojet bottled water really isn't my cup of tea (or shall I say, coffee). Personally, I don't like the look of that. I don't like to see hose running on top of benchtop either. That's just me and I'm 100% certain my wife won't approve that. I do like the Alex Leva. I've seen the pix of the internals and it looks very well built. Even better built than my Duetto 3. I do like the idea of Londinium and Pro 800 where you've got the option of tank or plumb in. I may use the tank initially and if I decide to move house or built my own house later down the track, I still got the option of plumbing that in. I have thought about lack of local support if I end up getting the Londinium but if it uses generic parts, then that's should be a big problem I suppose. Another question, the hx and db espresso machines, do they sell well in the 2nd hand market?? I will have 3 of these and 2 grinders that I've only used lightly in 2 yrs in mint condition sitting in my cupboard.
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  48. #48
    Senior Member BalthazarG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vlkcheng View Post
    Having a flojet bottled water really isn't my cup of tea (or shall I say, coffee). Personally, I don't like the look of that. I don't like to see hose running on top of benchtop either. That's just me and I'm 100% certain my wife won't approve that.
    Personally I don't like the flojet option either. It looks messy.

    I do like the Alex Leva. I've seen the pix of the internals and it looks very well built. Even better built than my Duetto 3.
    Bad luck I'm afraid. If you don't plumb it, you'll need the flojet.

    Time to clarify things here, I think. At the beginning of the thread you said you wanted to stick with a 58mm portafilter. Remember, the Alex Leva is not a standard 58mm basket machine; its baskets are 55mm.

    So if you want a 58mm, then you can rule it out.

    Another question, the hx and db espresso machines, do they sell well in the 2nd hand market??
    Oh no, not another one!!??

    Maybe, but you won't have a huge number of options (aside from Ebay, or taking potluck on here). You're pretty much on your own there.

    Coffee Machines - Second Hand Coffee Machines - Jetblack Espresso

    All things taken into consideration, it seems you've got two proper choices - the Londinium, or the Pro 800. Take your pick, and never look back.
    Last edited by BalthazarG; 16th January 2017 at 12:12 AM.

  49. #49
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    Sorry, I should have been more clear. Alex Leva was ruled out because of lack of tank option and I preferred 58mm portafilter size.

  50. #50
    Senior Member BalthazarG's Avatar
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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by vlkcheng View Post
    Sorry, I should have been more clear. Alex Leva was ruled out because of lack of tank option and I preferred 58mm portafilter size.
    No worries.



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