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Thread: Vocabulary of coffee

  1. #1
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    Vocabulary of coffee

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Good article in today's Weekend Australia Magazine by the food critic John Lethlean about the unpredictability of ordering coffee in different locales.

    He uses the long macchiato and the Melbourne/Perth WA divide to demonstrate the varying results.

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    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    Nocookies | The Australian

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    But sounds relevant as today my wife ordered her standard "double-shot short black" and received two shots and half as much hot water as a long black.
    Last edited by level3ninja; 22nd July 2017 at 08:10 PM.

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    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Haha true... the long macc/coffee vernacular debate rages on!
    Even the use of the terms macchiato in latte art competitions confuses me... it's basically a piccolo latte they're doing, but anyways, unless traditionally the macchiato always was topped with milk... headscratcher...

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    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Speaking of vocab, was actually going to start a thread regarding underextraction vs overextraction, but fitting to put it in here! (Thanks Otago, but sorry for hijacking :S..)

    Cannot for the life of me find a definitive answer anywhere...
    I keep seeing these terms being interchanged. I know what each is (if I stick with one understanding relatively speaking!).
    It's moreso the terms themselves I've seen:

    Underextraction= too fast a flow/extraction, not extracting the coffee properly as the water-coffee contact time is too short. Contradictory flavour indicators too: will result in too flat, sour, bitter (I've also seen a faster flow being described as flat in some places, sour on others, and bitter in others.....which I'd love if someone clarified? Experience-wise I've found all three to occur... an Ethiopian bean I've had alot of sourness from a fast flow/larger yield, alot of bitterness from Indian, and flatness from others...)

    Overextraction= far too slow a flow/extraction, too high contact time, have seen descriptions of harsh, sour, acrid/astringent, also seen bitter described for these shots...

    To me this makes sense (the flow rate moreso, not flavour descriptions..), but I've seen the opposite said. That underextraction is that the flow is too slow hence coffee being 'underextracted', and overextraction having too much water flow through the coffee hence overdoing it, which also sort of makes sense..

    Just trying to get clarification on the terms, but also the end result (which I'm feeling may be more dependent on the bean characteristics than generic flavour outcomes for all coffee...). Even after all these these of coffee-ing I'm still confused haha..

    Thanks so much guys!

    Simon

  5. #5
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonsk8r View Post
    Speaking of vocab, was actually going to start a thread regarding underextraction vs overextraction, but fitting to put it in here! (Thanks Otago, but sorry for hijacking :S..)

    Cannot for the life of me find a definitive answer anywhere...
    I keep seeing these terms being interchanged. I know what each is (if I stick with one understanding relatively speaking!).
    It's moreso the terms themselves I've seen:

    Underextraction= too fast a flow/extraction, not extracting the coffee properly as the water-coffee contact time is too short. Contradictory flavour indicators too: will result in too flat, sour, bitter (I've also seen a faster flow being described as flat in some places, sour on others, and bitter in others.....which I'd love if someone clarified? Experience-wise I've found all three to occur... an Ethiopian bean I've had alot of sourness from a fast flow/larger yield, alot of bitterness from Indian, and flatness from others...)

    Overextraction= far too slow a flow/extraction, too high contact time, have seen descriptions of harsh, sour, acrid/astringent, also seen bitter described for these shots...

    To me this makes sense (the flow rate moreso, not flavour descriptions..), but I've seen the opposite said. That underextraction is that the flow is too slow hence coffee being 'underextracted', and overextraction having too much water flow through the coffee hence overdoing it, which also sort of makes sense..

    Just trying to get clarification on the terms, but also the end result (which I'm feeling may be more dependent on the bean characteristics than generic flavour outcomes for all coffee...). Even after all these these of coffee-ing I'm still confused haha..

    Thanks so much guys!

    Simon
    Probably better starting a separate thread. You seem to be confusing factors that may cause under/over extraction, with what under/over extraction is. As I understand it, under/over extraction refers to the extent to which the solubles in the ground coffee are extracted in the brewing process and land in your cup. Under-extracted coffee is more acidic as the those flavours are extracted more easily. Yes, that may result from too quick a pour (or too coarse a grind or......). The best indicator of whether coffee is over or under extracted is the taste.

    Back to the OP. You wanna try ordering a 'grande americano' in downtown Tehran.
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    Senior Member magnafunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    Nocookies | The Australian

    Behind a paywall
    But sounds relevant as today my wife ordered her standard "double-shot short black" and received two shots and half as much hot water as a long black.
    If you google ordering a macchiato is strangely difficult it will link to the pages and you can click through from there

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    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Thanks for that Barry that did clear things up, yeah true i perhaps wasn't clear, was moreso describing 'signs of', and mixing it with 'causes of'. Will start a separate thread, but cheers for that

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    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnafunk View Post
    If you google ordering a macchiato is strangely difficult it will link to the pages and you can click through from there
    Cheers!

    What is a long macc? Sounds like a normal macc to me, but I've never heard of a long or short one. Or are they adding a bit of milk with the foam? Like between a macc and a piccolo?

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    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Different definitions I've seen:

    Short macc= single shot with a dollop of textured milk
    Long macc= double shot with a dollop of textured milk

    Or


    Short macc= double shot with a dollop of textured milk
    Long macc= double shot poured over hot water with a dollop of textured milk (pretty much a long black with a dollop of textured milk)


    Latte art comps I see the free pour macchiatos as really being piccolo lattes.. I guess we'll never know XD

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    Macchiato is an Italian word, meaning "marked" or "stained".
    For coffee it means to mark or stain the espresso shot with milk.

    In the West if you want it like the East you need to ask for it "traditional" - Long Mac Tranditional/Short Mac Tranditional. Either way it will be a few drops of milk and not just marked/stained with milk.

    The good news is that now that Perth has secretly become the espresso capital of Australia it will more often be delicious here than in the other capital cities, whatever you order
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    From what I've seen regarding short macchiato vs long macchiato, is that a short macchiato is a short black with a dollop of foam, and a long macchiato is a long black with a dollop of foam.

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    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    I had heard that the "mark" of a macchiato was the mark left on the side of the glass by the espresso when you file the glad slightly to tip the milk in.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    I had heard that the "mark" of a macchiato was the mark left on the side of the glass by the espresso when you file the glad slightly to tip the milk in.
    ???? You can file your own glad, Sonny Jim

    FWIW a macchiato is a 'noisette' (literally 'hazelnut') in France......from the shape of the stain/mark from the milk froth.
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    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Sometimes I love my swipe keyboard. Sometimes I even read what I'm about to post. Other rooms not so much.

    It was supposed to read "tip the glass slightly to put the milk in". I've even had someone show me to tip the glass to leave a mark if you don't tip it to put the milk in.



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