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Thread: what coffee ratio do u use ????

  1. #1
    Junior Member Blacktownbrew's Avatar
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    what coffee ratio do u use ????

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    what ratio do u use? and with what kind of drink??
    I've been using 1:2.4
    20g in 48g out in 26seconds with a 7second pre infusion at 3bars..


    machine la marzocco gs3 MP and a mythos one grinder

  2. #2
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    1:2.5
    16 in, 40 out.

    breville barista express.

  3. #3
    Junior Member Blacktownbrew's Avatar
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    what beans do you use?
    how do you find that ratio?

    i use a brand called AKA COFFEE
    I've been trying all different ratios I'm going to give 1:1.8 for 30 sec a go to get some more sweet notes hmm i can't find the perfect sweet spot..

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    1: 2 and a bit, that is, 19gms in 38 to 40gms out using the KJM type blend on a Rocket Giotto

    When dialing in use the numbers first and then adjust for taste. Too sour then a little finer. Too bitter then a bit coarser.
    Last edited by barri; 30th August 2018 at 07:28 PM.
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    Junior Member NickNeinBar's Avatar
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    Hi, with my Rancilio Silvia: 15g in, 32g out, 26-28 seconds.
    I use very a freshly roasted Espresso blend direct from Mocha Coffee, Marrickville, Sydney.
    I grind with a San Marco SM92 (great efficient unit, but few people seem to talk about it on forums??).
    Oh boy, I drool in anticipation hours before preparing my shot!
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickNeinBar View Post
    I grind with a San Marco SM92 (great efficient unit, but few people seem to talk about it on forums??).
    LSM grinders are an excellent unit alright. Had one myself for a couple of years...
    I think they are probably more well known in Europe than here down-under, probably because of the enormous foothold that Mazzer has.

    Mal.
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  7. #7
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    At the moment drinking Colombia beans from MannaBeans, medium or slightly darker roast I think.

    I start with the dose, and found that 17g or more make the puck stick to the shower screen. So I use 16g most of the time.

    I tried 1:2 ratio and I found that it is too little and strong for my liking losing the subtle flavors, but 1:3 is to much and watery. So found that I like 1:2.5 most. Been doing that ever since.

    What is your process with trying out the ratio? What beans are you using? What roast level? Do you play with grind/dose or just the ratio?

    Sy


    Quote Originally Posted by Blacktownbrew View Post
    what beans do you use?
    how do you find that ratio?

    i use a brand called AKA COFFEE
    I've been trying all different ratios I'm going to give 1:1.8 for 30 sec a go to get some more sweet notes hmm i can't find the perfect sweet spot..

  8. #8
    Junior Member Blacktownbrew's Avatar
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    @gnoils how do i tag you ???


    beans from aka coffee i think there a medium to darker roast..
    so I've locked in the 20g in
    i play around with grind to suit ratio i had 1:1.8 today was really good

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    You mean like this? I just click Reply With Quote.

    Nice! What sort of flavor profile do you look for?


    Quote Originally Posted by Blacktownbrew View Post
    @gnoils how do i tag you ???


    beans from aka coffee i think there a medium to darker roast..
    so I've locked in the 20g in
    i play around with grind to suit ratio i had 1:1.8 today was really good

  10. #10
    Junior Member Blacktownbrew's Avatar
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    oh yeah thanks just a well balanced with lots of sweet floral notes
    Quote Originally Posted by gnoils View Post
    You mean like this? I just click Reply With Quote.

    Nice! What sort of flavor profile do you look for?

  11. #11
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    I reckon I've tried every method of dosing /timing/pulling shots from leveling using Stockleth to Scott Calaghan/s dosing tools to dose and collapse to 30/60mls in 30 seconds etc etc etc and I find brew ratio gives the best and most consistent shots. For those unfamiliar with this method I'll give my run down on how I do it.

    I start with a 18gm VST basket and VST normally recommend +- 1 gm so I settled on 19gms as that seems to provide a suitable clearance. I use a naked group handle to give me more room between scales, cups and group handle. With the scales under the cup I tare it then pull the shot and start the timer and stop it when I get to about 38 to 40gms and note the time. If its about 25 to 30 seconds then I normally make small adjustments to taste as mentioned in my post above. If its too quick or too slow then I adjust the grinder. finer or coarser. How did I arrive at 1:2? It is the recommended starting point for most well balanced espresso coffees. Some roasters even provide a ratio recipe with their bean types but most of them are around 1:2 and after hours of experimenting I found this ratio is about right for my taste buds. What happens to volume with this technique? The old guideline used to be roughly 30mls in 30 seconds for a single and 60ml in 30 seconds for a double. With brew ratio the volume takes care of itself and is fairly irrelevant. I sometimes for curiosity sake put 2 shot glasses down and keep an eye on the volume and it's often close to the those volumes anyway but in terms of taste volume doesn't seem to matter with this method. Keep in mind that taste is everything. The numbers, however, provide a great starting point.

    So if you haven't tried dialing in using the brew ratio I encourage you to give it a go. it gives great consistent results.

    EDIT ... This video really helped me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BT7...s&pbjreload=10
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  12. #12
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barri View Post
    I reckon I've tried every method of dosing /timing/pulling shots from leveling using Stockleth to Scott Calaghan/s dosing tools to dose and collapse to 30/60mls in 30 seconds etc etc etc and I find brew ratio gives the best and most consistent shots. For those unfamiliar with this method I'll give my run down on how I do it.

    I start with a 18gm VST basket and VST normally recommend +- 1 gm so I settled on 19gms as that seems to provide a suitable clearance. I use a naked group handle to give me more room between scales, cups and group handle. With the scales under the cup I tare it then pull the shot and start the timer and stop it when I get to about 38 to 40gms and note the time. If its about 25 to 30 seconds then I normally make small adjustments to taste as mentioned in my post above. If its too quick or too slow then I adjust the grinder. finer or coarser. How did I arrive at 1:2? It is the recommended starting point for most well balanced espresso coffees. Some roasters even provide a ratio recipe with their bean types but most of them are around 1:2 and after hours of experimenting I found this ratio is about right for my taste buds. What happens to volume with this technique? The old guideline used to be roughly 30mls in 30 seconds for a single and 60ml in 30 seconds for a double. With brew ratio the volume takes care of itself and is fairly irrelevant. I sometimes for curiosity sake put 2 shot glasses down and keep an eye on the volume and it's often close to the those volumes anyway but in terms of taste volume doesn't seem to matter with this method. Keep in mind that taste is everything. The numbers, however, provide a great starting point.

    So if you haven't tried dialing in using the brew ratio I encourage you to give it a go. it gives great consistent results.

    EDIT ... This video really helped me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BT7...s&pbjreload=10
    Really great post barri, well said. Yeah I often aim at 1:2 as a starting point and alter accordingly. Every bean seems to like something different, and some beans I can only get incredibly tasty results from a slightly lower 1:1.75 or so. Have never really been able to get a decent brew from the much higher ratios like 1:2.5, and I have a feeling it may all be related to your own setup and what works best for it (and your preferences).

    There's also the big importance of the quality of the shot extraction. I've hit a perfect 1:2 ratio in a good time, and the shot looked horrible in the pour and didn't taste great. So puck prep is also a big factor. You can get the right numbers but if the coffee wasn't distributed well, tamped lopsided, knocked the portafilter etc, it won't extract properly.

    Ah and that video's great. Admittedly I need to watch it a few times as I got a bit lost throughout it at times hehe. But essentially keep the dose fixed and only tinker with grind/time I think it states..
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    Weíve basically moved towards ristretto flat whites. Giving complex flavour with allpress beans.

    18g for 20g yield in 27 sec.


    Would love to have several grinders set up to compare profiles side by side!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacktownbrew View Post
    what ratio do u use? and with what kind of drink??
    I've been using 1:2.4
    20g in 48g out in 26seconds with a 7second pre infusion at 3bars..


    machine la marzocco gs3 MP and a mythos one grinder
    Same set up as you.

    I go 21g dose in and 30-35g yield out at 6 bar 30-35 secs. Gives the heavier mouthfeel I prefer. Allpress Supremo blend.

    With single origins when I occasionally buy them I'll usually go closer to 1:2 ratio.

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    FWIW, the traditional Italian original ratios were (and still are) 7g to 30mls (note: g to mls, takes crazy Italians to mix units) given well roasted beans. Allowing for crema, that is probably about a 1:3.5 or 1:4 ratio by weight. That ratio is for a well balanced shot that displays regional characteristics fully.

    Why the move to 1:2 (i.e. a traditional ristretto, low notes only?)? My take - bulk roasting drops up to 75% of the flavour from the bean. Why? You have to roast more conservatively and flavour quantity plummets and to a lesser extent flavour quality drops. All the good roasters I use do not do massive bulk roasts. As an aside, I reckon that is why a lot of meticulous home roasters are closer to a 1:4 ratio - way more flavour is accessible if youroast small quantities in a quality roaster.

    My preferred shot is a well balanced 1:4 if the roast is good enough. If it isn't, I work my way downwards to 1:2 - and by then the beans have lost all regional quirks and really need pallbearers more than an espresso machine.

    TampIt
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  16. #16
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    For my usual Ďespressoí roasts when making a shot for my morning cappuccino Iím pretty close to 1:1.5 in about 30-35secs. This is a sweet spot on a Sunbeam EM6910, but isnít exactly what Iíd do on other machines. If Iím making a single origin espresso and the roast is potentially a touch lighter Iíll be closer to 1:2, or even slightly over at 1:2.2ish.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    FWIW, the traditional Italian original ratios were (and still are) 7g to 30mls (note: g to mls, takes crazy Italians to mix units) given well roasted beans. Allowing for crema, that is probably about a 1:3.5 or 1:4 ratio by weight. That ratio is for a well balanced shot that displays regional characteristics fully.
    ---
    My preferred shot is a well balanced 1:4 if the roast is good enough. If it isn't, I work my way downwards to 1:2 - and by then the beans have lost all regional quirks and really need pallbearers more than an espresso machine.
    My balance. I weigh beans and shot, getting about a 1:3.75 ratio in about 25-27 seconds.

    I drink one, maybe two, coffees a day. A good espresso is a treat, like a bit of chocolate, with tea the more common drink in our house. Those may influence my preference.

    I find also that guests, the majority of the population not being coffee snobs, are very happy with the style I make, regarding me as some sort of barista. I am learning some modest latte art to maintain the deception.

  18. #18
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    FWIW, the traditional Italian original ratios were (and still are) 7g to 30mls (note: g to mls, takes crazy Italians to mix units) given well roasted beans. Allowing for crema, that is probably about a 1:3.5 or 1:4 ratio by weight. That ratio is for a well balanced shot that displays regional characteristics fully.

    Why the move to 1:2 (i.e. a traditional ristretto, low notes only?)? My take - bulk roasting drops up to 75% of the flavour from the bean. Why? You have to roast more conservatively and flavour quantity plummets and to a lesser extent flavour quality drops. All the good roasters I use do not do massive bulk roasts. As an aside, I reckon that is why a lot of meticulous home roasters are closer to a 1:4 ratio - way more flavour is accessible if youroast small quantities in a quality roaster.

    My preferred shot is a well balanced 1:4 if the roast is good enough. If it isn't, I work my way downwards to 1:2 - and by then the beans have lost all regional quirks and really need pallbearers more than an espresso machine.

    TampIt
    Hmmm interesting thoughts.. have never heard this before, ie that 1:4 ratio accesses more flavour, and also that bulk roasting drops the flavour majorly...

    Pulling that much volume of water through coffee I don't think my shots would taste that great.. and I roast pretty small batches. Just seems like quite a fast shot would result in under extraction (sour, watery), but perhaps it really depends on one's particular roaster, batch size, grinder, machine etc.. unless you run the shot at a normal flow rate and then keep running until you hit 1:4, which to me would be overextracted and bitter then.. interesting though, will have to have an experiment.

    1:4 feels closer to a lungo than espresso (again, something a few have had success with and prefer, but I've tried them and can't get an overly tasty brew...)
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  19. #19
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    Just to make it a bit clearer, my preference is usually for a well balanced cuppa. I suspect, like most CS'r's, I also like a bit of variety on occasion. I range between Turkish, my modded stirrer plunger (think aeropress, with cleaner & clearer flavour which highlights lighter notes), my Rommelsbachers (high grade stainless steel electronic version of a Carmencita / moka pot), cold drip / steep or deliberately tinkering ratios in my espresso machines. As long as the end result is enjoyable it doesn't really matter.

    I should have added that if I have to use "well roasted but poorer quality beans" (not a common mix in my world) for some reason then I tend to go for the chocolate low notes of a 1:2 ristretto to make something acceptable out of it. Also, some of my friends prefer that style of coffee anyway - and I always try to make it to their tastes.

    I just feel that there is a trending school of "coffee aficionado thought" (particularly in the US) that everyone needs to overdose an 18 to 20g basket and run it short to make a "proper coffee for one" - that I cannot agree with given quality beans (aged properly), a good grinder and a good espresso machine.

    Enjoy your cuppa - that is the only rule

    TampIt
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  20. #20
    Senior Member noonar's Avatar
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    Video of a 4:1 shot from 7g of beans would be cool.

  21. #21
    Senior Member noonar's Avatar
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    Oh, BTW - 19g in a 18g VST, single dosed (and thoroughly swept out) and 34 to 40g in 30-40secs out, dependant on the bean permutations etc. Run at 6.5bar.

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    For 2 lattes I grind 20 grams which will deliver 25 ml of coffee into each glass under the twin spout portafilter. So 50 mls total. Sometimes a maximum 60 mls. I aim for a 25 seconds minimum extraction, 32 ish seconds maximum.

    Since I use the volumetric touchpads, if the extraction is a gusher or a trickler the grind needs adjusting. Not the volume. The volume stays constant according to what I've programmed the touchpads to do.

    I suspect the practice of cutting shots before they go yellow is a hangover from manual lever days? Dunno, but no point having a fully automatic if you don't use it as such.

    For espressos, the same basket is filled with 18 grams to deliver 25 ml from the twin spouts but this time into just ONE espresso cup or double-walled glass. In the same time. Maybe I'd like to try for 20 gram loads but I suspect the mound will bridge the space between basket and burrs on the Baratza grinder...
    and spew the excess everywhere too.

    At the moment, coffee for lattes is ground by the Cunill Space grinder, and for espressos by the Baratza.

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    Breville BES900
    1:2
    18 in 36 out
    time flucutates depending on age of bean between 28-32 seconds

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    Quote Originally Posted by barri View Post
    I start with a 18gm VST basket and VST normally recommend +- 1 gm so I settled on 19gms as that seems to provide a suitable clearance. I use a naked group handle to give me more room between scales, cups and group handle. With the scales under the cup I tare it then pull the shot and start the timer and stop it when I get to about 38 to 40gms and note the time. If its about 25 to 30 seconds then I normally make small adjustments to taste as mentioned in my post above. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BT7...s&pbjreload=10
    Thanks for the link! I'm resolved to go quantitative in my onward and upward journey, and have just acquired the necessary equipment (brewista smart scale and tiana dosing cup). But I have a very noobie question I am almost embarrassed to ask after years making home espresso. I haven't however been able to find the answer.

    Does the 22-30s timed 'optimum' extraction we are supposed to be aiming for start from when you pull the lever up/press the start button (ie does it include the preinfusion on an E61 type machine?) OR from when the first drop of gold hits the cup?

    (Perhaps) naively I always have assumed the former, as my Profitec has a shot timer. However the Brewista has a mode (mode 5) which tares out the cup and starts the timer when the first drop lands.

    So which is it?

  25. #25
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolie21 View Post
    Thanks for the link! I'm resolved to go quantitative in my onward and upward journey, and have just acquired the necessary equipment (brewista smart scale and tiana dosing cup). But I have a very noobie question I am almost embarrassed to ask after years making home espresso. I haven't however been able to find the answer.

    Does the 22-30s timed 'optimum' extraction we are supposed to be aiming for start from when you pull the lever up/press the start button (ie does it include the preinfusion on an E61 type machine?) OR from when the first drop of gold hits the cup?

    (Perhaps) naively I always have assumed the former, as my Profitec has a shot timer. However the Brewista has a mode (mode 5) which tares out the cup and starts the timer when the first drop lands.

    So which is it?
    G'day! Ah nah don't be embarrassed to ask, I think it takes courage and willingness to learn by asking .

    Most people it seems time from the moment you pull the lever/start the shot as that's pretty much (roughly) the moment that water comes into contact with the coffee and it's the moment that extraction starts. To me personally it doesn't make sense to time when the first drop hits the cup, as the coffee is already extracting, so all you'd be timing is the time for the cup to fill to the appropriate amount. And it could take a little longer depending on a few factors. To me the time is always brew/extraction time.

    But honestly I don't think it really matters too much in the end! As long as what you're doing is consistent, then you can go by your way of doing things, and alter any variables you need to to alter the most important factor: taste in the cup!

    (And pre-infusers will have to chime in, not sure of their timing )

  26. #26
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    I do not think there is a right and wrong; whatever suits you. I formerly timed the entire shot for the reason given by simonsk8r. The coffee was good. After I acquired a shot scale I started a Timestick when I pulled the lever and compared that with the shot scale result when I turned it off. Their times were highly correlated though different, so now I use only one having rescaled my thinking to the new measure. The coffee is great, but that is to do with the new machine and grinder because timing is not actually different.

    Taste the coffee.
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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    May be a bit of a generalisation but I've found the better the grinder machine combo the lower the ratio for a similar result, possibly due to more efficient extraction. Domestic machines seem to run out to 2.5:1 more often.

    Just an observation.

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