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Thread: How much espresso in a small latte

  1. #1
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    How much espresso in a small latte

    Quick question.

    In a normal Latte size cup, how much espresso is required to make a latte.

    I have been told, it's 60ml for a 2 cup espresso, meaning it will extract a total of 60ml espresso from both sprouts.

    But my friend seem to think it's 30ml.

    Can someone clarify this?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by 241343232 View Post
    Quick question.

    In a normal Latte size cup, how much espresso is required to make a latte.

    I have been told, it's 60ml for a 2 cup espresso, meaning it will extract a total of 60ml espresso from both sprouts.

    But my friend seem to think it's 30ml.

    Can someone clarify this?
    My understanding is a "shot" is 30ml. Depends on the cafe but I know cafes that put 1 shot in a cup of milk, others 2.

  3. #3
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    How many grams of coffee ground would that be?

    Just a standard 18g?

  4. #4
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    is it always 30ml, regardless of amount of coffee ground?

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    I know someone that wants to achieve 2:1.
    does that mean he would need 30g of coffee?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 241343232 View Post
    How many grams of coffee ground would that be?

    Just a standard 18g?
    Not necessarily. It would be barista and coffee roast dependant.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by 241343232 View Post
    I know someone that wants to achieve 2:1.
    does that mean he would need 30g of coffee?
    2:1 for a 30ml shot is 15g of coffee in the basket.

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    By "small" latte do you mean "not the gigantic milk drink", or a piccolo?

    The latter is in my understanding 2:1 milk to espresso (how I make them), so for fixed strength then shot quantity / volume depends on how much beverage you want at the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beensean View Post
    By "small" latte do you mean "not the gigantic milk drink", or a piccolo?

    The latter is in my understanding 2:1 milk to espresso (how I make them), so for fixed strength then shot quantity / volume depends on how much beverage you want at the time.
    2:1 sounds very strong. 150-200ml of milk to a single 30-40ml shot would be what I'd expect in a "standard" latte.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drwharris View Post
    2:1 sounds very strong. 150-200ml of milk to a single 30-40ml shot would be what I'd expect in a "standard" latte.

    When I say small latte, I am talking about a small size latte you would get in a cafe.

    If I am using a 2 Cup portafilter, I would run 18g of coffee which would extract 30ml into each cup.

    which means it would roughly be 9g of coffee to extract 30ml.

    According to this article, it insists on 2:1 method? I am really confused.

    https://www.espressoschool.com.au/bl...g-in-espresso/

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by 241343232 View Post
    When I say small latte, I am talking about a small size latte you would get in a cafe.

    If I am using a 2 Cup portafilter, I would run 18g of coffee which would extract 30ml into each cup.

    which means it would roughly be 9g of coffee to extract 30ml.

    According to this article, it insists on 2:1 method? I am really confused.

    https://www.espressoschool.com.au/bl...g-in-espresso/
    No, as I understand it you've used 18g of coffee for 30ml...that's 30/18=1.6:1 which will probably taste fine but be a waste of coffee.

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    Should b 15g to 30ml?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 241343232 View Post
    Should b 15g to 30ml?
    To get 2:1 for a 30ml shot yes.

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    My confusion is .. I have been told 15g of coffee will yield 60ml espresso for a 2 cup espresso. That is not 2:1.
    More like 3.5:1 what is the actual right formula?

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    Quote Originally Posted by drwharris View Post
    2:1 sounds very strong. 150-200ml of milk to a single 30-40ml shot would be what I'd expect in a "standard" latte.
    Even my wife would call that a gigantic milk drink. To clarify, I was talking two parts to one part: so 60 mL of milk with 30 mL of espresso. That is a piccolo. A standard latte might be 3:1 as we see it.

    i see that a lot of discussion subsequent to my earlier post is about ratio of coffee grounds to espresso liquid. Latte is French for milk, so how much milk to your preferred espresso seems to me the ratio in question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 241343232 View Post
    My confusion is .. I have been told 15g of coffee will yield 60ml espresso for a 2 cup espresso. That is not 2:1.
    More like 3.5:1 what is the actual right formula?
    It's simple math. 60/15=4 therefore 4:1. Which would be very watery.

    Think of it as for every gram of grounds (right side of the ratio) you want a specified grams/mls of liquid (left side of the ratio). So with 2:1 if you know the left (60ml) then divide by the left number (2) to get the right number which would be 60/2=30g of grounds.

    Make sense?

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    Quote Originally Posted by beensean View Post
    Even my wife would call that a gigantic milk drink. To clarify, I was talking two parts to one part: so 60 mL of milk with 30 mL of espresso. That is a piccolo. A standard latte might be 3:1 as we see it.

    i see that a lot of discussion subsequent to my earlier post is about ratio of coffee grounds to espresso liquid. Latte is French for milk, so how much milk to your preferred espresso seems to me the ratio in question.
    That makes more sense. But I think the OP is talking about brew ratio.

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    Grams and mls and ratios. Stop it. Ratio one or the other.

    20g coffee - 40g coffee in the cup = 2:1

    40g coffee in the cup - 200g of milk = 5:1

    Thats a starting point for both. Fine tune to taste!
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    Reviewing the OP, it looks a little unclear. The first question is how much espresso in a latte, then asking about particular volumes. No mention of grounds weight though.

  20. #20
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    When discussing brew ratios you need to be clear as to what it is you are measuring. In a freshly pulled shot grams do not equal milliliters! A freshly pulled shot will be roughly 50/50 liquid and crema with the liquid weighing a gram/ml while the crema weighs almost nothing. So a fresh shot with a volume of 30ml will only weigh a bit over 15g. Let the crema settle out and you end up with a volume of about 18ml of which 15ml is liquid with the weight remaining unchanged at a bit over 15g. This is why it has become more and more common for people to quantify the extraction in grams rather than milliliters.

    The traditional definition of a single shot is commonly given as 7g of coffee yielding a 30ml extraction which includes the crema before it settles. This is based on the Italian method of extraction which is today codified as 7 (+/-0.5) grams of ground coffee extracted to 25 (+/-2.5) milliliters including crema over 25 (+/-5) seconds (There are many other aspects that are codified by the Italian Espresso National Institute as to what makes an Espresso Italiano but for purposes of this discussion these are the ones we're concerned with.).

    Different baskets hold different amounts and you need to have the basket filled to its' proper level in order to get a good extraction. Many single baskets today hold 9 or even 14 grams of coffee while double baskets can hold up to 28 or even more grams of coffee. Quad basket sold as a double anyone?


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    In the TAFE course on preparing Espresso that I attended recently I was taught that all standard milk based coffees have a single shot of espresso, which would be 30 grams. However the teacher mentioned that some cafes might do it differently and you should do it according to the 'tradition' of the cafe you work for.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mipl View Post
    have a single shot of espresso, which would be 30 grams.
    grams or mls?

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    Quote Originally Posted by saeco_user View Post
    grams or mls?
    Near enough they are the same thing.

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    Uuuummmmm....No they're not!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Javaphile View Post
    Uuuummmmm....No they're not!


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    I read your post just now (missed it before) and in hindsight, I agree. Henceforth I will stop using them interchangeably.

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    .....Phew!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 241343232 View Post
    Quick question.

    In a normal Latte size cup, how much espresso is required to make a latte.

    I have been told, it's 60ml for a 2 cup espresso, meaning it will extract a total of 60ml espresso from both sprouts.
    If you mean 60 total as in 30 from each spout, then you are in the ballpark for two espresso based drinks.

    A simple thing to do is keep your pour time the same, eg, 25 or 30 seconds and adjust your grinder until you get the taste that you like.
    (Assuming your dose, distribution and tamp are consistent)

    The grind will determine the amount of coffee you extract, given your time is the same.

    Whatever gives you your best tasting coffee use that.
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  28. #28
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    The 'standard' is, and always has been a double shot (double basket) for any 'normal-sized' coffee cup.
    A 'normal-sized' coffee cup is 160-180 mls. Rarely smaller than 160mls and not larger than 200mls. Not a mug!
    I had never heard of this "one-shot nonsense" until recently when I noticed some cafes starting to put one shot in a normal sized cup.
    I now ask how many shots they intend to put in my cup if I am in any doubt.
    We live in a society where there are no rules anymore and everybody makes up their own as they go along - hence "Long Macchiatos".
    When I did my Barista course 10 years ago nobody questioned that 2 shots was the 'standard'.
    Your taste buds tell you everything you need to know - a single shot Long-black tastes like dish-water.
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  29. #29
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    as a general rule the industry standard for cafes is 30ml of coffee in a single latte glass made with 21.5g of coffee

    alternatively some cafes are updosing (using bigger baskets and packing around 24 or more gms in) and splitting the shots into 2 x 22ml extractions to make two lattes or small (150ml tulip cups) flat whites - not sure what the reasoning is for this except to say that by under caffeinating the customer they're targeting a specific demographic and hoping to get repeat coffee sales

    in most commercial settings however you won't get more than 45ml extracted from 21g of coffee as longer than this and the coffee starts to taste bitter and over extracted

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by beensean View Post
    Latte is French for milk, so how much milk to your preferred espresso seems to me the ratio in question.
    In the spirit of Javaphile, latte is Italian.
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  31. #31
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    Quite right. Sorry.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by tashie View Post
    In the spirit of Javaphile, latte is Italian.

    Somewhere along the road to cafe culture we transitioned from espressos and cappuccinos (some people and cafes still think it's CUPuccino, a "cup of chino" whatever that is) to what we call lattes.

    But there never was a latte to begin with.

    Ask an Italian for a latte and you'll get milk. Just milk. Coffee doesn't enter into it.

    What we call latte in the coffee sense is really a caffe a latte --literally coffee in the style of milk.

    The French would say cafe au lait.

    Cappuccino derives from cappuccio, a hoodie. Cappuccino means little hoodie.

    A plain, distinctive brown robe and hoodie is worn by the Cappuccini, an order of friars named after their hoodie.

    So, when you blend espresso with milk you get a beverage whose brown colour is reminiscent of the Cappuccini friars.

    (Or, when you get an espresso base with a hoodie -- cappuccio --of milk, you get a cappuccino.)

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    A typical 'shot' of coffee is 30ml. For a latte, it usually 30mls extracted into a 220ml glass.

    Coffee grind weight can vary, but anywhere between 14g-18g for a single shot and 21g-23g for a double (60ml) is acceptable.

    Some cafe's also elect to prepare a double shot and stop it 1/2 way with both spouts pouring into 1 glass. This will give it a total of 30mls (1 shot) and a double ristretto. More expensive and more effort, but supposedly less bitter.

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