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Thread: $16? Nope.

  1. #1
    Senior Member LFM60's Avatar
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    Angry $16? Nope.

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight

  2. #2
    Senior Member Rocky's Avatar
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    For me, there is a price/value range that I am prepared to pay for any given item.
    The variation depends on the 'quality' or desirability I attach to the item, and whether I consider the price "reasonable".
    For example, I would pay $50. for a desirable bottle of red wine, but even though I could afford to pay much more, I wouldn't, because it would be outside my "range".
    I recently paid $120. to have the elastics replaced in my RM Williams boots. That was the upper end of what I was prepared to pay before I would just buy new boots.
    A good cup of coffee is worth up to about $6. to me. Above that, I don't care how good it is or who wants to talk to me about it, it's out of my "range".
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  3. #3
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Admittedly that is pricey, but absolutely I would. Not all the time, but without a doubt I would.
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    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    As a one-off, from him, sign me up!

    ETA: I recently visited Yahava coffee in Margaret River, WA. They showed me photos from when some of their people visited the coffee farm in India where a particular bean came from (I believe the visit was in 2016 or 2017?). In a couple of the photos was Sasa laying out some beans in a couple of different ways to test processing methods. He definately gets hands on and knows his stuff. I bought a kilo of ONA Raspberry Candy a year or so ago from their Canberra store. I was unable to quite dial it in perfectly at home to get the raspberry notes I had in the cafe, but every shot I made I said to myself "Damn that's good coffee." Even once I was too caffeinated to drink whole shots and was pouring a couple down the sink, which happened a few times over the week I spent trying to dial it in. I am really curious to taste his extra good stuff.
    Last edited by level3ninja; 18th September 2018 at 11:01 PM.
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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Totally agree. Getting cheap coffee is much more important than helping producers out of poverty. I don’t care what’s happening in the 3rd world just give me cheap coffee.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Paying $16 for a brew in Canberra has nothing to do with reducing third world poverty, its all about lining a primadonna bartenders pockets with the cash of gullible Aussie's.

    We'll be paying $16 a cup soon enough, inflation and wage indexation will see to that.

    So! in response to LFM60's original post, $16 for a cup of coffee, outrageous.

    Certainly fits well with the smashed avocado on toast and inability to accumulate a deposit for a house mind set.

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    338
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    Interesting, as always News Ltd has an each way bet. At the same time as this story is around they are running an advertorial written by staff for 7-11 for how good the $1 coffee is. I must say I had the same thought as Leroy about $1 coffee

    https://www.news.com.au/features/v3/...d-coffee-good/

    https://www.news.com.au/features/v3/...ome-too-fancy/


    Interesting in the $16 article I couldn't help but notice the journalistic standards - or lack of them. He 'scaled the globe' instead of 'scoured the globe' and 'with beans he grinded in front of me' instead of 'ground'. I am assuming $16 coffee doesn't get grammar lessons thrown in with all that discussion or help you remember high school grammar.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    So! in response to LFM60's original post, $16 for a cup of coffee, outrageous.
    Yes, but makes it much easier to justify my upgraditis

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    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    As a one-off, from him, sign me up!

    ETA: I recently visited Yahava coffee in Margaret River, WA. They showed me photos from when some of their people visited the coffee farm in India where a particular bean came from (I believe the visit was in 2016 or 2017?). In a couple of the photos was Sasa laying out some beans in a couple of different ways to test processing methods. He definately gets hands on and knows his stuff. I bought a kilo of ONA Raspberry Candy a year or so ago from their Canberra store. I was unable to quite dial it in perfectly at home to get the raspberry notes I had in the cafe, but every shot I made I said to myself "Damn that's good coffee." Even once I was too caffeinated to drink whole shots and was pouring a couple down the sink, which happened a few times over the week I spent trying to dial it in. I am really curious to taste his extra good stuff.
    Yep, he sure knows his stuff.

    And I was so close to buying a kilo of that Raspberry Candy blend at MICE this year, but they were quite emphatic that it was a blend really designed for milk-based coffee, and didn't want me to be disappointed with it as black (not that they denied selling it to me hehe). How did you find it as an espresso?

  10. #10
    Senior Member Lyrebird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 338 View Post
    'with beans he grinded in front of me' instead of 'ground'.
    "Grinded" is perfectly acceptable, if you are from the 17th century: "Two Things are to be Reconciled: the one, that the Tooth of Usurie be grinded that it bite not too much:" Francis Bacon, Essays 1613.
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    Had it, loved it, worth it.

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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Paying $16 for a brew in Canberra has nothing to do with reducing third world poverty, its all about lining a primadonna bartenders pockets with the cash of gullible Aussie's.

    We'll be paying $16 a cup soon enough, inflation and wage indexation will see to that.

    So! in response to LFM60's original post, $16 for a cup of coffee, outrageous.

    Certainly fits well with the smashed avocado on toast and inability to accumulate a deposit for a house mind set.

    Whatever helps you sleep at night.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 338 View Post
    'he grinded in front of me' instead of 'ground'. I am assuming $16 coffee doesn't get grammar lessons thrown in with all that discussion or help you remember high school grammar.
    Maybe he mean't 'Grindered'?
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    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonsk8r View Post
    Yep, he sure knows his stuff.

    And I was so close to buying a kilo of that Raspberry Candy blend at MICE this year, but they were quite emphatic that it was a blend really designed for milk-based coffee, and didn't want me to be disappointed with it as black (not that they denied selling it to me hehe). How did you find it as an espresso?
    It was a while ago now, I just remember being impressed with the quality of it. Just looking at the whole beans they look so much more uniform than anything else I've used, both in size and colour. They tasted like they looked, much greater clarity and fuller body than is possible with different sized beans that roast differently (I've never roasted, just what came to mind). Made me consider spending $60/month inc postage instead of the $36 I currently spend.
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    Senior Member noonar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    Maybe he mean't 'Grindered'?
    Nup - definitely Grinned. :-)

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    Senior Member noonar's Avatar
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    $15 for a bottle of Corona in a pub is all too common in WA. You can buy them for $2 in the bottle shop next door, so $16 for a coffee would be no surprise. BTW it's not "speciality" Corona. Curiosity would get to me and yes I would pay $16.
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    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    It was a while ago now, I just remember being impressed with the quality of it. Just looking at the whole beans they look so much more uniform than anything else I've used, both in size and colour. They tasted like they looked, much greater clarity and fuller body than is possible with different sized beans that roast differently (I've never roasted, just what came to mind). Made me consider spending $60/month inc postage instead of the $36 I currently spend.
    Ah yep nice, yeah if I had the money I would definitely be getting stuff in like that more often... the Thinktank 90+ range is also unbelievable and so worth it... just another level completely. Always good as an 'every-now-and-then' splurge

  18. #18
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 338 View Post
    Interesting, as always News Ltd has an each way bet. At the same time as this story is around they are running an advertorial written by staff for 7-11 for how good the $1 coffee is. I must say I had the same thought as Leroy about $1 coffee

    https://www.news.com.au/features/v3/...d-coffee-good/

    https://www.news.com.au/features/v3/...ome-too-fancy/


    Interesting in the $16 article I couldn't help but notice the journalistic standards - or lack of them. He 'scaled the globe' instead of 'scoured the globe' and 'with beans he grinded in front of me' instead of 'ground'. I am assuming $16 coffee doesn't get grammar lessons thrown in with all that discussion or help you remember high school grammar.
    Don't get me started on contemporary journalistic standards, or should I say lack of.

  19. #19
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Don't get me started on contemporary journalistic standards, or should I say lack of.
    Yeah I seem to remember a journalist suggesting that buying a certain type of breakfast might change whether or not you could afford a house deposit

  20. #20
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Don't get me started on contemporary journalistic standards, or should I say lack of.
    Yeh, well they don't have the sub-editors that used to get them out of jail in the past.

  21. #21
    Senior Member woodhouse's Avatar
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    just another example of people succumbing to clickbait if you're gonna eat eye fillet at a steakhouse every night, sure it'll add up. but if money is an issue, you should reconsider ordering eye fillet every night. or even eating out every night.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    more like *test your self-righteousness* and *insert outrage here*

    seriously, this is a non-issue.

  22. #22
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    I heard Sasa on the radio last night, if nothing else he got a lot of publicity from charging $16/cup.

    He actually started the interview with "we have a $32/cup coffee on the menu at the moment".

    Bleh, $16/cup was so yesterday.

    While the margin might be a tad high, these are pointy-end coffees, landed in tiny quantities and made by high dollar per hour competition level staff so if someone wants to try them they can. Ona also sell house blends at circa $4 so you don't have to try these.

    Choices are good.
    I'm happy to see them giving it a shot (bad pun intended)

  23. #23
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodhouse View Post
    if you're gonna eat eye fillet at a steakhouse every night, sure it'll add up. but if money is an issue, you should reconsider ordering eye fillet every night. or even eating out every night.
    Couldn't agree more, sadly in this age of plastic many fail to appreciate that sooner or later the piper must be paid.

    John Adams, chief economist at As Good as Gold Australia, has penned another ripping post exposing the fallacious arguments used to defend Australia’s record household debt, which is currently ranked the second highest in the world by the Bank for International Settlements:
    https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/201...ing-time-bomb/

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    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Each of Sasa's cafes in Canberra that I've been to serve superb basic coffees, so I reckon I'd give one of his premium beans a go in a pourover with plenty of time to chat and think it over....probably just once.
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  25. #25
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Have to say its nice to get your teeth into a subject that requires a little more input than the "cant get a decent brew from my stale beans" type post that seems to be so prevalent of late.
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  26. #26
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Couldn't agree more, sadly in this age of plastic many fail to appreciate that sooner or later the piper must be paid.

    John Adams, chief economist at As Good as Gold Australia, has penned another ripping post exposing the fallacious arguments used to defend Australia’s record household debt, which is currently ranked the second highest in the world by the Bank for International Settlements:
    https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/201...ing-time-bomb/
    Fair enough article. But...you do understand who Mr Adams works for, and what their vested interest is?

  27. #27
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    Each of Sasa's cafes in Canberra that I've been to serve superb basic coffees, so I reckon I'd give one of his premium beans a go in a pourover with plenty of time to chat and think it over....probably just once.
    Hmmmm, perhaps, but then, perhaps not.
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  28. #28
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    Fair enough article. But...you do understand who Mr Adams works for, and what their vested interest is?
    I do, however it doesn't alter the fact that household debt is at an all time high, we are simply living beyond our means, I see a lot of financial heartache on the horizon.
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    It is a known marketing technique to use price to imply quality. I am not buying it.

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    Senior Member topshot's Avatar
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    If I was in the area, i'd give it a go!

    Both espresso based drink as well as a pour over.

  31. #31
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beensean View Post
    It is a known marketing technique to use price to imply quality. I am not buying it.
    It's also used to sell expensive, rare, really high quality products.

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    Quote Originally Posted by simonsk8r View Post
    It's also used to sell expensive, rare, really high quality products.
    Quite true, and I own or consume some of those. I was drawing attention to the counter-factual which needs also to be considered.

    We have consumed coffee at Ona, and used their beans. Both were very good but no argument for paying two, four or eight times as much in the present market.

  33. #33
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beensean View Post
    Quite true, and I own or consume some of those. I was drawing attention to the counter-factual which needs also to be considered.

    We have consumed coffee at Ona, and used their beans. Both were very good but no argument for paying two, four or eight times as much in the present market.
    Ah yep fair enough, guess I was saying that it's not always the case that it's a clever marketing scheme, but yeah it's definitely something to be aware of, and something which does happen for sure. I've heard of it being done in coffee myself.

    The tricky thing to discern is when it's being done! Sasa seems like a really decent man who is incredibly passionate about coffee, goes above and beyond for it, so I personally would trust it but that's just me.

  34. #34
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beensean View Post
    Quite true, and I own or consume some of those. I was drawing attention to the counter-factual which needs also to be considered.

    We have consumed coffee at Ona, and used their beans. Both were very good but no argument for paying two, four or eight times as much in the present market.
    Yeh, but the $16 cup is not from the same beans. Is a $45 bottle of wine three times better than a $15 bottle of wine? Maybe, maybe not.....but if someone wants to pay it and try...good luck to them.

    And yes, there is a bit of clever marketing going on.
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  35. #35
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beensean View Post
    It is a known marketing technique to use price to imply quality. I am not buying it.
    So you’ve obviously read about Project Origin and don’t feel the work they’re doing is enough justification for charging premium prices.
    Also are you saying everything that’s ‘expensive’ is over valued?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 338 View Post
    Interesting, as always News Ltd has an each way bet. At the same time as this story is around they are running an advertorial written by staff for 7-11 for how good the $1 coffee is. I must say I had the same thought as Leroy about $1 coffee

    https://www.news.com.au/features/v3/...d-coffee-good/

    https://www.news.com.au/features/v3/...ome-too-fancy/


    Interesting in the $16 article I couldn't help but notice the journalistic standards - or lack of them. He 'scaled the globe' instead of 'scoured the globe' and 'with beans he grinded in front of me' instead of 'ground'. I am assuming $16 coffee doesn't get grammar lessons thrown in with all that discussion or help you remember high school grammar.
    To be fair that 7/11 coffee can be a lifesaver in some places, if you get the milk bucket with sugar syrup it hides the worst of it.

    Like McDonalds: I remember a place in the Adelaide suburbs where the lunch options near the client site were corned beef sandwiches made by the receptionist, McDonald's or a Latin American place run by a local housewife where the food was microwaved from plastic takeaway containers. We ate at the latter just once before deciding to stick with McDonald's for the rest of the week.

    I've paid $16 and more for Esmeralda Geisha type cups but it was rarely worth it; the problem is the roast is so expensive the owners are incentivised to keep it on hand past its lifetime and you get stale beans. In fact I've paid $100 for a kg of the Kona to Andy and whilst having roasted and drunk half the pack I now think it may have been a bit of a mistake I'm still happy to have taken the risk (most recently with the Yemen Ismaili, which should come in today). The problem with hobbies is you end up spending stupid money on them... coffee is still cheaper than booze or cars. It's affordable stupid money
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    So you’ve obviously read about Project Origin and don’t feel the work they’re doing is enough justification for charging premium prices.
    Yes, I have read it. Apropos, the other evening I joined a charity event raising funds and hands-on support for schools and improved sanitation in Nepal. So, what would be an appropriate premium? What of transparency? Measurement of social benefit? A discussion of how private charity best merges with inter-governmental support, and how it is processed and measured, hardly seems a topic for a forum about coffee. At least, it is one I would find more useful in person than on an internet forum so I will stay out of it.

    Also are you saying everything that’s ‘expensive’ is over valued?
    No. Read my opening sentence in #32 again. As Barry comments, there is a component of taste, de gustibus, here, of personal preferences. I am not attacking anyone else's preference merely by stating my own preference and notional reasons.

    Checking the cupboard for my old management consulting hat, I commend the commercial nous (and the chutzpah). If this is successful it should benefit people in the niche coffee market and supply chain.
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  38. #38
    338
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    You have to say as a marketing ploy this pricing has worked a treat, 37 posts so far on a coffee shop. They have been open 4 months and no mention till this price came out.

    Also a pretty good positioning statement as well, you would think if they had some $8 or $10 single origins they would do them adequate justice. I would be tempted. My question is has anyone been to Ona Marrickville and tried one of their more expensive coffees? Or do their other cafes offer similar? What is the process? Do they ring a hand cast and hand finished Tibetan bell and ask everyone to be quiet while they grind the beans of a $32 cup? Or do the just yell out 'flat white for Simon'? Genuinely interested in what the process is like.




    PS Will drop over and try just to report back one day if no one knows
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  39. #39
    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    When on holidays I seek out specialty cafes offering something out of the ordinary. On a visit to Melbourne I visited Aunty Pegs and paid $20 for a Panama Geisha which was exquisite, the whole process from the barista explaining the origin, processing etc, he then presented me with the ground coffee fresh from the EK43 to savour the aroma before being brewed, he then produced the V60 pourover in front of me while explaining the process and what the expect from the resultant brew. I enjoyed the total experience, it is not something I would do every day but as a special experience was well worth the $$$$
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  40. #40
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    The old question of 'would I pay $x for a cup of coffee'. There are two stances:


    • "I am more than happy with the coffee I drink. Why pay more than I have to?"


    • "I am prepared to pay top dollar to try the best"


    There are varying degrees to this. I probably fit more into the second category having bought some of the best offerings Andy has put in Beanbay from time to time. I like the idea of a having a benchmark of the best coffee as something to aspire to.

    On a related note, I checked ONA's website and noticed one of the coffees on offer was an Ethiopian Yirgacheffe Areka. I tried this bean many years ago (2008?) at Mecca cafe in Sydney CBD - they spelt it as Aricha*. It was brewed on a Clover brewer and cost about $8 but easily one of the best coffees I've ever had. Worth every cent but the downside is that I've never made a Yirg brew as good.

    * a bit more research and Aricha and Areka may not be the same after all. Areka may even be in the Sidamo region, not Yirgacheffe. Never mind, the Aricha was still damn fine coffee

    PS Are Clovers extinct? I remember they were very expensive if you wanted to buy one and I could only have a brew if they had someone on deck who could operate it.
    Last edited by flynnaus; 20th September 2018 at 07:28 PM.
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  41. #41
    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flynnaus View Post
    The old question of 'would I pay $x for a cup of coffee'. There are two stances:


    • "I am more than happy with the coffee I drink. Why pay more than I have to?"



    PS Are Clovers extinct? I remember they were very expensive if you wanted to buy one and I could only have a brew if they had someone on deck who could operate it.
    Starbucks acquired Clover ages ago:--
    Concur on Aricha, amazing coffee!!
    https://www.kqed.org/bayareabites/90...e-independents
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by flynnaus View Post
    It was brewed on a Clover brewer and cost about $8 but easily one of the best coffees I've ever had. Worth every cent but the downside is that I've never made a Yirg brew as good.
    Very similar to a high quality Syphon Brewer result, I've heard...

    Mal.

  43. #43
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenman View Post
    When on holidays I seek out specialty cafes offering something out of the ordinary. On a visit to Melbourne I visited Aunty Pegs and paid $20 for a Panama Geisha which was exquisite, the whole process from the barista explaining the origin, processing etc, he then presented me with the ground coffee fresh from the EK43 to savour the aroma before being brewed, he then produced the V60 pourover in front of me while explaining the process and what the expect from the resultant brew. I enjoyed the total experience, it is not something I would do every day but as a special experience was well worth the $$$$
    That.... is..... bloody awesome! That's a whole experience you're paying for right there, almost like he's doing a comp run just for you! I wish I saw more of that around, I may have to scout hehe.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenman View Post
    When on holidays I seek out specialty cafes offering something out of the ordinary. On a visit to Melbourne I visited Aunty Pegs and paid $20 for a Panama Geisha which was exquisite, the whole process from the barista explaining the origin, processing etc, he then presented me with the ground coffee fresh from the EK43 to savour the aroma before being brewed, he then produced the V60 pourover in front of me while explaining the process and what the expect from the resultant brew. I enjoyed the total experience, it is not something I would do every day but as a special experience was well worth the $$$$
    G'day greenman

    I am with you on that one. It is the experience as a whole you are paying for. Some are worth it, others... well, not really.

    FWIW, if I can pay over $200 for a bottle of good scotch (damn JW for trashing my beloved 25y.o. Cardhu - it still hasn't come back up to scratch) with no service at all then even a $50 cup of coffee is fair enough IF the whole experience is good enough.

    Also when a fair chunk of the price is the personal service it is not a valid comparison in terms of pricing. Yet still people protest about a restaurant charging more for a bottle of plonk than the bottle shop next door and expect the labour to be free. More than a tad unreasonable?

    Enjoy your cuppa - whether $0.01 or $50... with or without hot and cold running bow ties and silver service (which as everyone knows affects the quality)


    TampIt

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by 338 View Post
    Interesting, as always News Ltd has an each way bet. At the same time as this story is around they are running an advertorial written by staff for 7-11 for how good the $1 coffee is. I must say I had the same thought as Leroy about $1 coffee

    https://www.news.com.au/features/v3/...d-coffee-good/

    https://www.news.com.au/features/v3/...ome-too-fancy/


    Interesting in the $16 article I couldn't help but notice the journalistic standards - or lack of them. He 'scaled the globe' instead of 'scoured the globe' and 'with beans he grinded in front of me' instead of 'ground'. I am assuming $16 coffee doesn't get grammar lessons thrown in with all that discussion or help you remember high school grammar.
    So glad it's not just me. Also they didn't even spell check "ONA Marackville". Looks like they blew the budget on the $16 coffee and skipped the editing. Or the coffee was decaf.
    Dimal and 338 like this.

  46. #46
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    I work hard and like to spoil myself sometimes (how else can you justify spending thousands on coffee equipment). I spent $40 on Uber last night, $30 on parking the other night, no where near the skill set, time, learning put into either of them yet I pay them without batting an eyelid. If I decide to treat myself to a $16 coffee once a month and have a good 15min engagement with the server then I consider it money well spent.
    Dimal, matth3wh, simonsk8r and 5 others like this.

  47. #47
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockford View Post
    I work hard and like to spoil myself sometimes (how else can you justify spending thousands on coffee equipment). I spent $40 on Uber last night, $30 on parking the other night, no where near the skill set, time, learning put into either of them yet I pay them without batting an eyelid. If I decide to treat myself to a $16 coffee once a month and have a good 15min engagement with the server then I consider it money well spent.
    Good to see someone with a bit of perspective.

  48. #48
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Perspective changes depending on one's, err... Perspective.

    Mal.
    matth3wh and simonsk8r like this.

  49. #49
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    Not wishing to indulge in one-upmanship but..... my wife and I are currently enjoying a holiday on a cruise ship in the Mediterranean. A few days ago we were in Nice and enjoyed a couple of espressos at a very smart hotel on the waterfront. Price per cup of coffeee: 12 Euros ($19.37 at today’s exchange rate).

    Returning to the ship (where coffee is free) they not only have trained baristas who do a good job, they also roast their own coffee on board multiple times per day. Extremely fresh roasted beans but they never hang around long enough to lose the roasting gases. But it looks and smells fantastic and the passengers love it. I will try to post a photo later of the roaster which is very much on display and in regular use. Italian but not sure of the brand.
    Dimal, greenman and beensean like this.

  50. #50
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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Sounds like the average price is about right.



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