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Thread: Coffee shots channeling..

  1. #101
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Well I guess we're all looking forward to further updates and a resolution.

    FWIW burrs aren't bedded in with just a couple of keys... but that won't be the problem.

    Have you checked for cross threading? Good luck and keep us posted.

  2. #102
    Senior Member Jackster's Avatar
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    Isn't there something about chalking the burrs to check alignment?

  3. #103
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackster View Post
    Isn't there something about chalking the burrs to check alignment?
    Yep,

    Chalk the stationary burr, and with the grinder running, wind in until you just hear the slightest sound of the burrs touching. Remove the stationary burr, and check to see if the contact pattern around the burr is evenly distributed around it and of constant width. I used bearing blue when checking for these sorts of alignment checks but the principal is the same...

    Mal.
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  4. #104
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    But the grinder went to the roaster and he pulled how many shots before declaring it a lemon grinder?????

    There's still something glaringly and obviously missing from the MO...... but we've been scammed before on this site so I'll say no more, I'll just wait.
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  5. #105
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Been watching this thread with interest.

    Like Chokkidog I'm scratching my head.

    There does seem to be an agenda among some on this forum to denigrate everything Mazzer, not sure why, perhaps it's something to do with familiarity breeding contempt.

    Yes I realize they're a bit slow, but no big deal, and grind retention is exaggerated, certainly nothing that cant be managed with a bit of thought.

    In reality they are a good grinder, built like a tank and will probably outlast the average user, the upside is because of this perception there are some Mazzer bargains to be had second hand, particularly Mini's.
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  6. #106
    Senior Member woodhouse's Avatar
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    a while ago i expressed my opinion that slow grinders (mazzer mini) suck.

    i would like to revise that opinion after having worked with a mazzer robur for quite some time.

    regardless of their speed, mazzers suck.

  7. #107
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    Donít the Mazzer burrs find their way into several exotic and popular grinder packages.

    Niche Zero
    Helor


    Cheers
    Peter.
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  8. #108
    Senior Member Gavisconi007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Been watching this thread with interest.

    Like Chokkidog I'm scratching my head.

    There does seem to be an agenda among some on this forum to denigrate everything Mazzer, not sure why, perhaps it's something to do with familiarity breeding contempt.

    Yes I realize they're a bit slow, but no big deal, and grind retention is exaggerated, certainly nothing that cant be managed with a bit of thought.

    In reality they are a good grinder, built like a tank and will probably outlast the average user, the upside is because of this perception there are some Mazzer bargains to be had second hand, particularly Mini's.


    Absolutely spot on. Robur manual and artist brush for this little black duck. No issues with channeling and virtually no retention.
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  9. #109
    Senior Member Erimus's Avatar
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    It would be interesting to taste the difference between these channeled shots as he can get a perfect shot using the Breville grinder.
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  10. #110
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    I would like to see two things, someone with a SJ post a vid showing it produce perfect extraction from a naked pf.
    And then without changing grind settings, deliberately do something with their distribution technique to produce a shot which channels as bad as all mine are.
    I want to SEE that itís possible to get both great extraction and terrible extraction from a simple and slight change in distribution method. (No terrible angled tamping allowed & no heaped to one side distribution either)

    I donít care what brand the grinder is, Mazzer, Kompac, Anfim or Mahlkonig, if itís going to be impossible to get a good acceptable extraction from it then whatís the point?

    And like I mentioned earlier about my roaster, he coincidentally just went through very similar diagnostics headaches trying to work out why his Mythos was doing the same thing (shot extractions all over the place like mine) and finally found it was burr alignment.

  11. #111
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Never had a problem with any commercial or prosumer grinder we've owned in our house.
    So long as the burrs are in good condition and the beans are of high quality, recently roasted and only ground immediately before use, the end result has always been spot on.

    Grinders are really simple devices - bells and whistles aside - and unless there has been a significant misuse problem, they will last longer than most owners, as Yelta said.

    If there is a genuine problem with gmeddy's grinder, it is simplicity itself to determine what that might be, in the hands of someone who knows what he or she is doing.

    Mal.
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  12. #112
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    I had a go at the chalk test yesterday and noticed something...
    when I cleaned out everything and pulsed the motor on while looking at the bottom burr I could see a wobble - side to side - of about 1mm or thereabouts.
    I took the screws out of the bottom but and cleaned underneath it well. Then placed it back on the burr carrier and found there is quite a lot of sideways slop for it to move around! The screw holes are a little big too so thereís no way to get it perfectly centred! Special tools are probably available somewhere like spacers to jam in on the three sides to get it perfect.
    I used a feeler gauge set to do my best and was able to get it locked in as close to perfect as I could doing one side at a time... no more wobble visible- probably less than 10% of what it was.

    The top burr is the same... way out about 1mm to the side unless you use special amounts of fartarsing around to center it up.

    Then I did the chalk test and found that it is indeed not touching the whole burr all at once.
    I chalked the top burr and got maybe 50% of the edge rubbed clean.

    I tightened all the screws as tight as felt reasonable before I thought the screwdriver might slip, so tightness shouldnít be an issue, and none felt loose when I removed them either.

    And no cross thread issues with the adjustment collar, I donít see how that could happen anyway in such a big thread. Surely no one could possibly cross thread it and think itís winding smoothly down!? It wouldnít go far at all...

    Extractions are still not perfect, but they do seem a little better than before, so maybe that uncentered wobble was making things worse. But still, not getting as good as I easily can with the Breville SGP, and surely this SJ should be able to do that easily. So Iím calling misalignment after that chalk test for sure.
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  13. #113
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    The following article is based on some authoritative information and may provide some ideas on diagnosing your problem. It also includes tips on aligning your burrs if necessary.

    http://coffeenavigated.net/grinder/

    The suggestions on rotation of the bottom burr and use of metal foil spacers may be especially helpful.
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  14. #114
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otago View Post
    The following article is based on some authoritative information and may provide some ideas on diagnosing your problem. It also includes tips on aligning your burrs if necessary.

    Grinder alignment - Coffee Navigated

    The suggestions on rotation of the bottom burr and use of metal foil spacers may be especially helpful.
    Good link, interesting information Otago.

  15. #115
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    Coffee shots channeling..

    Quote Originally Posted by Otago View Post
    The following article is based on some authoritative information and may provide some ideas on diagnosing your problem. It also includes tips on aligning your burrs if necessary.

    http://coffeenavigated.net/grinder/

    The suggestions on rotation of the bottom burr and use of metal foil spacers may be especially helpful.
    Thanks man! Now weíre getting somewhere!

    Thereís literally no vids on YouTube about doing this to solve extraction problems. Especially not with the SJ. Itís likely a super common issue which most people donít even know about or just change grinder (like I was about to do) to solve their problem. Iím surprised it happens even with top end grinders like EK43 - makes me feel less jaded about my Super Jolly.

    Iím gonna get stuck into this job this arvo and see if I can get it all aligned correctly

  16. #116
    Senior Member Erimus's Avatar
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    The supplier of my grinder is confident there can't be anything wrong with my grinder because Mazzer SJ alignment can't be adjusted he says. But whatever the case this SJ is obviously a lemon. So now I'm up for some more stuffing around to send it off to be checked out by the old Italian guy at CMS, Reservoir VIC.
    What happened with this part of the adventure?

  17. #117
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Not sure that the above method is very useful applied to a non-EK43 type grinder, whereas with the EK-43 it is essential that the burrs are aligned properly due to the design of the grinder burr system.

    With burr replacements I've done with planar burr grinders, and when using OEM burr-sets and new screws, there has never been an issue with eccentric burr run-out after fitting. The screw heads are designed to be a tight fit in the relief for them in each burr, so sounds like the holes and relief are wrongly machined in the burrs themselves, or the screws are the incorrect size/type.

    Still worth taking it up with the importer I believe.

    Mal.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erimus View Post
    What happened with this part of the adventure?
    Weíll I was getting geared up to send it away, and giving it a clean to swap the burrs back to the OEM ones when I noticed the wobble side to side of the bottom burr as described earlier.
    So I started tinkering to figure out whatís going on.

    This afternoon I did the whiteboard marker (instead of chalk, much better) test and confirmed that the OEM burrs are ok. They had good 100% contact all the way around.
    The shots I pulled and checked every now and then with my naked pf were more even than I was getting before so it must have been out of alignment - definitely the side to side way, and possibly the other way too if I had the bottom/top around the opposite way to how they were today... my extraction was kind of blotchy, like little spots here and there not extracting, instead of all one sided like before.

    Maybe from clumping?

    So anyway, after seeing with the whiteboard marker test that the OEM burrs were good, I reinstalled the SSP burrs and checked them.

    Bad. Got about 60% contact on the top burr.
    Tried rotating it 1/3 and tested again, same, and it was the same part of the burr, showing the burr itself must be slightly thicker on one side.

    So I put one piece of foil folded in half under the low side and tested again...

    Viola! 100% contact.

    So now thatís all as good as itís gonna get.

    A Mazzer technician is not going to do anything more fancy than what Iíve done (I would assume) and just send it back to me saying ďserviced and calibratedĒ so whatever happens from here is as good as I can get I guess...
    Tomorrow Iíll dial it in and see how my extractions look. Then I just keep saving for my next grinder... perhaps the Anfim SP II.
    After some more research Iím steering away from the Mythos 1.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    Not sure that the above method is very useful applied to a non-EK43 type grinder, whereas with the EK-43 it is essential that the burrs are aligned properly due to the design of the grinder burr system.

    With burr replacements I've done with planar burr grinders, and when using OEM burr-sets and new screws, there has never been an issue with eccentric burr run-out after fitting. The screw heads are designed to be a tight fit in the relief for them in each burr, so sounds like the holes and relief are wrongly machined in the burrs themselves, or the screws are the incorrect size/type.

    Still worth taking it up with the importer I believe.

    Mal.
    Yes I would have expected much more care taken with the burr screw hole sizes or have them counter sunk to ensure central alignment. But alas, from that video it looks like even the EK43 has not gone that far...

  20. #120
    Senior Member Erimus's Avatar
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    It's a lot of money to spend on a grinder when you know you can get a perfect pour with cheapo Breville, obviously they're not built to last.
    The new Niche grinder from The UK is getting rave reviews in the UK and here too off the few that have imported them and a third of the price of an Anfim. Might be worth thinking about.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erimus View Post
    It's a lot of money to spend on a grinder when you know you can get a perfect pour with cheapo Breville, obviously they're not built to last.
    The new Niche grinder from The UK is getting rave reviews in the UK and here too off the few that have imported them and a third of the price of an Anfim. Might be worth thinking about.
    Itís a little single dose grinder. Might be nice on my kitchen bench beside my BDB, but not in my coffee van where I need a commercial grinder. I use my Breville SGP as my second grinder in the van for Decaf and filter brews, but I need a good reliable fast grinder for my main espresso beans.

  22. #122
    Senior Member Erimus's Avatar
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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Ahh! didn't realise you were running a coffee van.



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