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Thread: IKEA PATAR / PÅTÅR Coffee

  1. #1
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    IKEA PATAR / PÅTÅR Coffee

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Was at IKEA yesterday and saw they are selling their own brand of roasted Arabica beans!

    Being a bit curious, I couldn't resist, so I picked up a bag of each (250g only) of the two varieties on offer, with the "freshest" roast dates I could find. Even then, the roast dates were pretty old - late november and late oc last year for the percolator and espresso blends respectively. But definitely no worse than most supermarket beans...

    I don't feel confident yet to say what I think they taste like, or to try identify a flavour profile as I wasn't brewing them with milk. However, they are advertised as;

    Espresso blend: "A rich and intense dark coffee with notes of sweet fruits."
    Percolator blend: "A medium-dark coffee with a good body, a fruity acidity and notes of cocoa in the aftertaste for a typically Scandinavian coffee experience."

    Both were pretty good - I enjoyed the espresso blend in my BDB enough that I will have to try it again, and might get a few bags.

    They are are organic grown and UTZ certified which is pretty fantastic considering the price was just $6/bag ($24/kg).

    I've not provided a link due to the strict policies here on non-sponsors ( ) but you can find it on the ikea website.

    Has anyone else seen or tried them before?
    Last edited by Pinchies; 9th March 2019 at 03:13 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Definitely spam!! A bit too transparent, for me. I see the need for a new website.... Coffeeho's maybe?

    I wonder how much the grower is getting for these beans?
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    Perhaps I should have posted in the cheap bean's thread... I also recently tried Vittoria - now if anyone says they like that stuff, I'll believe it's spam then!!

    I've honestly still a newbie (far from being a Senior Snob... haha) , but I'm trying to learn and see the difference between both the high end and low end beans. So far my favourite has been Estate from Veneziano, but have moved over to the Aldi Lazzio beans (it turns out they are roasted in the same place!). From what I have been reading, most people tend to dislike the flavour of organic beans, and they tend to be significantly more expensive. So after finding one that I liked, I was wondering if anyone with a more experienced palate had thoughts on this blend.

    Supposedly with UTZ they should be being paid a reasonable amount?

    On the bag it says you can find out more info on the UTZ certified website - I put in the best before dates and it looks like my beans were made in Peru, by the "Cooperativa De Servicios Multiples Cenfrocafe Peru" and "Cooperativa De Servicios Multiples Cedros Cafe" - both of which seem to have their own websites too, which was at least fun.
    Last edited by Pinchies; 9th March 2019 at 03:19 PM.

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    I'm inclined to agree with Chokkidog Pinchies, looks and reads like spam to me.

    You would have had a lot more credibility had the post not been a simple boost for Ikea coffee, the distinctive Scandinavian Å's were lifted from the Ikea site.

    Even a search for Patar coffee comes up with Ikea stuff.

    Whats the old saying, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably, a duck.
    Duck.jpg

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    Agreed.... Sucks comprehensively.

    The poverty stricken grower probably received mere cents per pound for this stuff. You pay bargain basement, you get the cheapest, nastiest beans (and you can be talking floor sweepings aka grinders/bean bits) that the roaster can find.

    When you have long established growers leaving coffee and moving to crops where they can at least make a bare living rather than a loss, first world greed has gone too far- but then the roast is sold by a company which specialises in that.
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  6. #6
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    F--- me! Somebody is trying to convince us they are excited that a furniture company, famous for low cost furniture from China with Swedish names, is roasting coffee. What could they possibly bring to the roasting party except for decades of experience screwing Chinese furniture manufacturers. Ikea aren't even cheap, instead they sell cheap crap for exactly what it is worth, not a dollar less.

    What next, lets get excited when Bunnings or Supercheap start selling coffee, both known for seling on price and both with as much experience as Ikea as a roaster. How about buying from local roaster at a fair price (rather than trying to screw everyone in the chain) who uses good beans and puts their heart and sweat into the roast?
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caffeinator View Post
    Agreed.... Sucks comprehensively.

    The poverty stricken grower probably received mere cents per pound for this stuff. You pay bargain basement, you get the cheapest, nastiest beans (and you can be talking floor sweepings aka grinders/bean bits) that the roaster can find.

    When you have long established growers leaving coffee and moving to crops where they can at least make a bare living rather than a loss, first world greed has gone too far- but then the roast is sold by a company which specialises in that.
    I suspect that consumers' greed has a bit to do with it as well. But we don't like to hold ourselves accountable.

    FWIW I don't think the OP meant any offence, nor do I think he/she's in the employ of the Scandinavians. It's not quite at the same level as the magic Profitec ads.
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    Delete the thread if you want. I'm not offended, and I can see how it could interpreted as an ad. IKEA and Aldi both have tremendous power due to economy of scale, so I think there is a lot of potential for good quality products to be produced at good value prices. I'm aware that this is probably not a commonly held opinion on here....

    I see a lot of people talk about the importance of dialing in the extraction well to get the most out of the coffee. I'm looking for a cheaper alternative to the boutique options to practice on so I don't feel so obligated to drink a bad shot. So far my favourite has been Aldi, which I was definitely surprised by.

    Hence, when I saw IKEA was selling coffee too, I was genuinely excited for this reason - to see where along the scale IKEA fell with their product, from "cheap and nasty" to "premium". The roast date was months old, and the beans are just Arabica (which I don't really like that much), so I was pleasantly surprised to get a reasonably good cup.

    That being said, the beans I tried last were Vittoria, which were absolutely putrid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    I'm inclined to agree with Chokkidog Pinchies, looks and reads like spam to me.

    You would have had a lot more credibility had the post not been a simple boost for Ikea coffee, the distinctive Scandinavian Å's were lifted from the Ikea site.
    A fair point, I agree. I searched for both on the forum, and found nothing. This way I thought if someone in the future does google it, they might be able to find our (apparently short lived) discussion, regardless of how they type it. Adding the circles above the letters is easy on a mac - you just hold down the letter, and it lets you choose which thing you want to add to that character.


    To add more context to my post, I like listening to music, and I'm a member on the head-fi forum. On there, they have reviews of every type of headphone, not just the good ones. Why bother with the reviews of the bad ones? Because that way people who know nothing, can learn about what the experts can see that they are missing out on. It also is the way that truely good "value" options (good quality, low cost) can be identified from the "cheap" (low quality, low cost) options.

    Do you think I'm still far off the mark? Have I misinterpreted the purpose of the CS forum?


    Quote Originally Posted by Caffeinator View Post
    The poverty stricken grower probably received mere cents per pound for this stuff.
    I'm not aware of any direct association between the product price and the amount that the manufacturer gets paid. There are examples where this is true (milk, chocolate) and there are counter examples where it isn't (chocolate, clothing, apparel).
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  10. #10
    338
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    Pinchies, the 'economies of scale' is screwing the grower. You can buy beans at a modest price here on CS, the other parts are freight, roasters (how big can you make one?), gas or electricity and labour. The one which it is easiest to get down and have least power is beans from the grower - traditionally this has been so. Chokki put up a link showing some growers were selling at US $1 per kilo. Less than the cost of production. We are talking some farms which don't hit five figures annual income. I don't know if you would be so comfortable discussing a cheap headphones if you knew the manufacturer was living well below the povert line. It would be hard to feel smug about the low price for an Australian.

    Get used to Arabica beans, most are. Or try robusta.

    PS my apologies for not thanking you for your review, I can now see it is genuine.

    Most small roasters highlight their bean source and how they pay a living rate. I guessed from your join date you knew about faircrack https://coffeesnobs.com.au/faircrack-projects/ worth reading if you haven't, there have been some amazing projects given back to communities. This is financed by a small levy on green bean sales (and i assume roasted sales). Google and you will find plenty of stories about the amount large companies pay. You said you aren't aware, did you research?

    I think many find it hard to get excited about cheap beans as we know who supplied the discount. In my case they need the funds more than me, appreciate that is not the case for all.
    Last edited by 338; 9th March 2019 at 07:00 PM. Reason: add ps
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    Ok, maybe now I'm getting the picture of why you guys thought this was spam.

    Ensuring the producer is paid a fair price is really important to me - the UTZ certification was the only thing giving me confidence that the producer hadn't been ripped off, that's why I was making a big deal about that.

    I was thinking that the IKEA coffee with UTZ certification would be a "fairer" coffee to buy than the Aldi Lazzio beans, which are not UTZ certified, while still being available at a very affordable retail price. So if the taste was good, then it could become my new staple.

    Isn't this the purpose of organisations like UTZ - to ensure big corps cannot tighten the thumbscrews on producers? Are you saying that mark isn't really worth trusting?

    My impression was that most of the base production costs are the same for all coffees - growing, freight, roasting, etc. I thought the main reason for differences in the costs were things like economy of scale, difficulty of growing in certain regions, costs to access high altitudes, and of course supply and demand, etc.

    Can you please share the link? I'd be interested to learn more about the economics.

    Buying ethically produced products is really difficult, without any kind of traceability or independent inspection, because retail price is typically so disconnected from the price paid to the supplier.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by 338 View Post
    Most small roasters highlight their bean source and how they pay a living rate. I guessed from your join date you knew about faircrack https://coffeesnobs.com.au/faircrack-projects/ worth reading if you haven't, there have been some amazing projects given back to communities. This is financed by a small levy on green bean sales (and i assume roasted sales). Google and you will find plenty of stories about the amount large companies pay. You said you aren't aware, did you research?

    I think many find it hard to get excited about cheap beans as we know who supplied the discount. In my case they need the funds more than me, appreciate that is not the case for all.
    Thanks @338. I am aware that large companies have typically been the worst players when it comes to ethical payment of suppliers, in all industries. I think there is change happening, but it's definitely happening more slowly than we would all like.

    I had heard about faircrack, it looks like a great program.

    At some stage I do plan to try and purchase beans through the CS system, and it gives me real confidence that my purchase is having a positive effect on the communities of the growers. Please don't see me as speaking negatively of it, because I don't know all the details - but I guess I don't understand why the program is needed - why can't you simply pay more for the beans in the first place, so that they have more profit to do whatever they want? Wouldn't that have the same outcome? With charitable giving, there are sites now that examine the effectiveness of various agencies (e.g. givewell dot org) - and programs that simply give cash directly to those in need seem to do very well.

  13. #13
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    Hi Pinchies, there is post by "Andy" (owner of Coffee Snobs) saying that some of the fair trade and organic certifications cost more than the whole years output for some growers, so they will never get it. Others have to incorporate this large impost in their costs. I think Andy's words were 'to fly a fat westerner over to observe what they were doing'. So a certification is meant to provide the grower with a better price, but after certification may recieve less profit.

    Read Faircrack for further reading, it was Chokki above who linked to the $1 article and use google. Unfortunately there are so many poor stories about the economics for growers I don't bookmark them.



    Ps I know it is early days in your coffee journey, so no ones comment were meant as criticism (except maybe my first comment!). Your I don't like arabica gave it away - most coffee sold in Aus is Arabica with a tiny bit of robusta. I am only half a step further along so take my comments with a grain of salt.


    Ps your post above appeared when i posted this. If you read say the Faircrack Tanzania project, you can see how a whole village and surrounds benefited from clean, healthy solar lighting rather than kerosene lighting with associated smoke and health issues. It is unlikely a single grower would feel magnanimous enough to provide solar lighting for everyone in his village and surrounding areas. Other projects might processing plants which benefit a number of growers. The 50 cents a kilo levy is on us at this end, after a fair price has already been negotiated.
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  14. #14
    338
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    To sum it up - 'Just read the Faircrack section, it will make you feel warmer than a roaring open fire on a hot summers night'

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    I'm going to have to give these a try now and see how they compare them to Aldi beans which have had numerous good press on here. Judging by their coffee that comes out of those automatic coffee machines I imagine it will be ok for milky coffee when you're stuck for fresh beans, or just having an economical week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 338 View Post
    Hi Pinchies, there is post by "Andy" (owner of Coffee Snobs) saying that some of the fair trade and organic certifications cost more than the whole years output for some growers, so they will never get it. Others have to incorporate this large impost in their costs. I think Andy's words were 'to fly a fat westerner over to observe what they were doing'. So a certification is meant to provide the grower with a better price, but after certification may recieve less profit.
    I believe this is the thread referred to here. That was one time I learned a lot in a really short time...
    https://coffeesnobs.com.au/general-c...tml#post624504
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    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinchies View Post
    .....I see a lot of people talk about the importance of dialing in the extraction well to get the most out of the coffee. I'm looking for a cheaper alternative to the boutique options to practice on ...
    Learning about dialing in and extraction using stale beans is a waste of time IMO. The stale beans just dont behave anything like freshly roasted coffee.

    Cheers
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    Having some more time to properly play with the beans today, I tried them with milk and found them to more clearly give quite a poor result. I think my initial assessment was premature - I won't be recommending anyone else bother to try them...
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  19. #19
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    Sorry to hear the beans weren't what you were hoping. I suppose the more surprising result would have been if they were fantastic, making them one of a few good cheap beans. You have saved others from trying them.
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    Thanks for sharing Pinchies and don't feel too bad about it. That's the kind of discussion and the reason why we are on forums - to share and to read others' experiences, whether they are good or bad, sponsored or not.

    I was in Ikea yesterday. Did check the roasted beans out, but all the roast dates were at least 4 months away and so I did not get any...My personal experience has been even if they were once the top shelf stuff, anything above a month and the chance of being drinkable/enjoyable will be slim. For the record, I roast my own beans mostly and don't have a fetish for supermarket coffees. But am just open to try different/new things.

    I suspect they could've been a decent coffee when fresh. Similar to the Italian big brands (like Lavazza or Illy etc), they can taste reasonable on the first day when the bag is opened (the packaging method halts the aging process to some extent). But once opened, the quality drops off the cliff over the next few days (rapid aging).
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  21. #21
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinchies View Post
    Having some more time to properly play with the beans today, I tried them with milk and found them to more clearly give quite a poor result. I think my initial assessment was premature - I won't be recommending anyone else bother to try them...
    Fair enough Pinchies, even though your original post looked like a plug for Ikea to me it obviously was not, just goes to show things are not always what they seem.

    I was wrong.



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