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Thread: Where and what blends for an Italian.

  1. #1
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    Where and what blends for an Italian.

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hey guys,

    I think my recent problems with my setup were mostly related to bean choice.

    I tried many expensive blends and hated them all, completely undrinkable and a giant water of money that, as a tight was I'm still upset about, but I digress.

    I landed on Mocopan Pasquale which is $30/kilo so very reasonable and tastes great. I'm sure there are similar and probably better blends out there (perhaps not) for my tastes and I'm wondering, asking if you would be so kind as to me a few.

    I like Italian coffee, sweet, full bodied, lots of crema and I'm going to say that's usually a darker roast. I don't like burnt flavours though, I can stand heaps of bitterness but don't love too much. I hate sour, acidic coffee that I'm going to associate with boutique coffee shops, if that's incorrect or offensive I apologise.

    I'm 40 and I've been drinking coffee since the 80's mainly espresso, some stove top mocha, always the Italian brands and I can't stand anything from the 'best' places in Melbourne anymore, I won't mention names.

    I must be an old man stuck in old times, buy I am what I am and I need to work harder to find the coffee I like. Any help will be much appreciated!

  2. #2
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Why not try Andy's Espresso WOW, has a great reputation, I'm sure you wont be disappointed.

    https://beanbay.coffeesnobs.com.au/V...resso-wow-rtfn

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    Another suggestion is the Benito blend from site sponsor Dibartoli. This is an Italian style that you’ll probably find to your liking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Why not try Andy's Espresso WOW, has a great reputation, I'm sure you wont be disappointed.

    https://beanbay.coffeesnobs.com.au/V...resso-wow-rtfn
    I'm hesitant to use boutique brewers because of my experience with them as explained above, have you used this blend and if so is it a roast with a more traditional profile?

    I'd like to support the local forum sponsors, but I feel, perhaps incorrectly that they're all targeting a less old man style of consumer? ��

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    Quote Originally Posted by herzog View Post
    Another suggestion is the Benito blend from site sponsor Dibartoli. This is an Italian style that you’ll probably find to your liking.
    Sounds good man! Might try that next.

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    We like what we like.

    If you're looking for your coffee style in a city CBD from a boutique roaster then you're looking in the wrong place.
    Plenty of regional and some urban roasters would do a roast to suit you, as they have to cater to your palate type..... I can list half a dozen straight up.

    Andy is NOT a site sponsor.... he owns the site!

    I second Yelta's suggestion of Espresso WOW from Beanbay. If you want to know more suggestions DM me.
    Last edited by chokkidog; 24th March 2019 at 11:30 AM. Reason: TMI

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    Has anyone here had Mocopan Pasquale?
    That's my baseline/control now. I'd like to support CS and improve the coffee from there, but choosing without any kind of specs is difficult.

    A scale of how sweet or chocolatey etc. would be good.

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobSac View Post
    Has anyone here had Mocopan Pasquale?
    That's my baseline/control now. I'd like to support CS and improve the coffee from there, but choosing without any kind of specs is difficult.

    A scale of how sweet or chocolatey etc. would be good.
    Bob, I've tried to advise you once, will give it another go.

    Andy the owner of this site Coffee Snobs is not a boutique roaster, he offers an enormous range of high quality Arabica beans to suit every taste, if you cant find what your looking for among his offerings you are pretty hard to please.

    Here's a link to the page, each coffee has exactly the information your looking for "sweet or chocolatey etc" https://beanbay.coffeesnobs.com.au/V.../RoastedCoffee

    I suspect your preference, like mine is for darker roasted Italian type beans, this is a description of Espresso Wow "Great as a double espresso with a creamy viscous body, a complete palate that oozes flavour throughout your mouth and an after-taste that lingers nicely for a good length of time. This flavour profile works just as well in milk based drinks and the strong crema should make a great canvas for latte art. "

    Give them a try.


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    Quote Originally Posted by herzog View Post
    Another suggestion is the Benito blend from site sponsor Dibartoli. This is an Italian style that you’ll probably find to your liking.
    Are you Herzog from bna?
    That site has died since Christopher cut tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Bob, I've tried to advise you once, will give it another go.

    Andy the owner of this site Coffee Snobs is not a boutique roaster, he offers an enormous range of high quality Arabica beans to suit every taste, if you cant find what your looking for among his offerings you are pretty hard to please.

    Here's a link to the page, each coffee has exactly the information your looking for "sweet or chocolatey etc" https://beanbay.coffeesnobs.com.au/V.../RoastedCoffee

    I suspect your preference, like mine is for darker roasted Italian type beans, this is a description of Espresso Wow "Great as a double espresso with a creamy viscous body, a complete palate that oozes flavour throughout your mouth and an after-taste that lingers nicely for a good length of time. This flavour profile works just as well in milk based drinks and the strong crema should make a great canvas for latte art. "

    Give them a try.


    I apologise, I'm possibly not understanding what the mainstream definition of a boutique roaster is anymore.

    It's been a while, but I did own a cafe (in Melbourne, in Brunswick), my father owned a few very successful cafes (in Melbourne, around the Brunswick, Carlton areas) and his father ran a cafe (in Italy), so whilst I know a lot about coffee and the industry, it's all either not relevant or very different to 2019 in Melbourne.

    I assumed you linked to a boutique supplier given the look of the website etc. I do apologise if I've pissed you off with my noobishness.

    I will give the beans a go, but just for your info, the blurb gave me no useful info about the product, I have no idea what to expect.

    Mocopan were very helpful, I was told they've be woeful, but they spent 15 minutes explaining in plain English all the blends and then asked what I wanted and I said ' Italian and I don't like this new hipster light roast stuff' so they explained exactly why they think I'd like Pasquale, dark roast, sweet, caramelised flavours should be produced with my grinder and machine combo etc.

    Perhaps a graph outlining the acidity, sweetness characteristics and/or an explanation of the likely flavours would help boobs like me who aren't up with the latest lingo?

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    BobSac it sounds like those coffees you have not liked recently are what I describe as a "hipster roast'. This is a light roast that's quite faddish at the moment, yet many of us here are not fans. It can taste sour, grassy and like unripened fruit. Some inner city cafes have gone all-in on the stuff.

    As Yelta says, it sounds like your preference is for a darker, italian style roast which brings out those warmer flavours in the coffee such as nut, chocolate etc. I generally prefer that style myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by herzog View Post
    BobSac it sounds like those coffees you have not liked recently are what I describe as a "hipster roast'. This is a light roast that's quite faddish at the moment, yet many of us here are not fans. It can taste sour, grassy and like unripened fruit. Some inner city cafes have gone all-in on the stuff.

    As Yelta says, it sounds like your preference is for a darker, italian style roast which brings out those warmer flavours in the coffee such as nut, chocolate etc. I generally prefer that style myself.
    That's what I'm after, I've found it more and more difficult to come by recently!

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobSac View Post
    That's what I'm after, I've found it more and more difficult to come by recently!
    Ok good we've nailed that down.

    You've been provided with a couple of solid options in this thread. Let us know how it works out.

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    G'Day Bobsac, not pissed off, sorry if I came across that way.

    As others have now commented it's probably darker roasted beans your after, perhaps with a small percentage of Robusta added (Italian style) stay away from supermarket stuff i.e. Vittoria, Lavatzza etc.

    As a matter of interest, some here have mentioned Aldi as being a source of reasonable quality commercially roasted beans at very low cost, particularly their darker roasted beans, could be worth a try, from memory only about $15 a kg.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    G'Day Bobsac, not pissed off, sorry if I came across that way.

    As others have now commented it's probably darker roasted beans your after, perhaps with a small percentage of Robusta added (Italian style) stay away from supermarket stuff i.e. Vittoria, Lavatzza etc.

    As a matter of interest, some here have mentioned Aldi as being a source of reasonable quality commercially roasted beans at very low cost, particularly their darker roasted beans, could be worth a try, from memory only about $15 a kg.
    I did try a Vittoria 'mountain grown' bean from Woolies, on special for $15, because I was told it was good. It was not ��

    Lavazza isn't great either imo, perhaps in Italy?
    Maybe it's too old by the time it's shipped here? Or not as good as it used to be (it was good when I was drinking it regularly in the 90's).

    It will try at least one of the recommendations in this thread and I will post my thoughts.

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    Here's an interesting article relevant to the discussion in this thread (about a new roaster in Adelaide, with some commentary on dark/light roasting trends): https://www.broadsheet.com.au/adelai...ern/cafes/hark
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    Thanks, sounds good, too bad it's a state away from me.
    Totally agree with the comments about people liking what they like, nobody should be learning to like what a barista tells them is 'right'.
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  18. #18
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    I guess it goes to show that this is but one 'boutique' roaster who appreciates the difference between light/dark roasts. I hope you can soon settle on a convenient, suitable option!

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    G’day BobSac, I’m an ex-Carlton ite myself, my dad had a licensed grocery business in Carlton and my uncle used to import green beans and roast them himself for wholesale to restaurants around melb. That’s where I bought my coffee from and was quite happy although occasionally he’d burn them.

    Since he stopped roasting I could not get any joy from any of the coffee suppliers in oz. We visited France and Italy some years ago and there you could get an excellent shot anywhere, even the petrol outlets had decent espresso.

    I bit the bullet, bought a roaster from Andy and now roast and blend my own. And m extremely happy with the results. Maybe you should go that way yourself.
    my second crack.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    As a matter of interest, some here have mentioned Aldi as being a source of reasonable quality commercially roasted beans at very low cost, particularly their darker roasted beans, could be worth a try, from memory only about $15 a kg.
    Yelta! Does this make you an influencer? Maybe one for the niche older persons market sector?
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    After trying and being quite upset with myself for wasting money on more low vole roaster coffee, I've gone back to Mocopan Pasquale as my benchmark.

    You really can't take anyone's advice when it comes to beans as taste is so subjective.

    I still think a rating system would be a good idea.
    How dark the roast is on a standardised scale, perhaps the timing past first and/or second crack?

    I know it's no one's fault, including my own, but I was so frustrated when I wasted a couple months and a bunch of cash trying blends some of which were clearly not described correctly or anywhere close to fresh, or another issue.

    I will try roasting my own soon, I've got the machine and grinder just right now.
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    It’s funny how I typed two cents as 2 and c and was converted to my second crack ��

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobSac View Post
    After trying
    You really can't take anyone's advice when it comes to beans as taste is so subjective.

    a couple months and a bunch of cash trying blends some of which were clearly not described correctly or anywhere close to fresh, or another
    It would be great if you could make a post to the thread about which of the recommended beans you tried and your thoughts, tasting notes on them.

    What did you like, what did you dislike etc?
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    Quote Originally Posted by herzog View Post
    It would be great if you could make a post to the thread about which of the recommended beans you tried and your thoughts, tasting notes on them.

    What did you like, what did you dislike etc?
    Sure, well my benchmark is the Mocopan Pasquale because it's traditional Italian and by that I mean this is what I remember coffee tasting like as a young wog boy in the 80's in Melbourne and what coffee still tastes like all over Italy.

    Sweet (without any sugar) and caramel tones, virtually no acidity, great on its own as a single or double and just as good with milk as a triple. I like smooth easy drinking coffee that doesn't have any tart flavours or bite to it, a little burnt flavour, just a little is OK, I don't want it, but a very amount is acceptable. I prefer that to under roasted acidity. Any citrus hints ruin an espresso for me.

    My next best roast so far is a cheap blend ($25/kg) that I got from a local cafe after being impressed with the espresso they made, it's called DiVenzio and it's not as good as Pasquale in any way but I don't have to travel to get it and it's almost $10 P/kilo cheaper -a very fair price for good beans.

    Both this blends are always no older than a week whenever I get them.

    I used to like blends from Coffex, I used them in my cafe, also Grinders most expensive blend (before it was owned by Coke), I did like coffee froma group (Coburg) but not any more, it's all boutique stuff now and not really my style, very acidic and under-roasted (for me).

    I'm 100% sure the best baristas will think I'm a joke and that my coffee tastes horrid, but I think the 'best' places in Melbourne make undrinkable rubbish.

    So I think none of my thoughts are of any use as taste is so subjective. I haven't had a single client that hasn't loved my espresso though made with my cheap $25 beans, cheap Sunbeam grinder and cheap old Silvia.

    Keep in mind I'm an espresso drinker, I rarely drink milk based and it's my opinion that pour over is best described as dirty water.
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  25. #25
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobSac View Post
    Sure, well my benchmark is the Mocopan Pasquale because it's traditional Italian and by that I mean this is what I remember coffee tasting like as a young wog boy in the 80's in Melbourne and what coffee still tastes like all over Italy.

    Sweet (without any sugar) and caramel tones, virtually no acidity, great on its own as a single or double and just as good with milk as a triple. I like smooth easy drinking coffee that doesn't have any tart flavours or bite to it, a little burnt flavour, just a little is OK, I don't want it, but a very amount is acceptable. I prefer that to under roasted acidity. Any citrus hints ruin an espresso for me.

    My next best roast so far is a cheap blend ($25/kg) that I got from a local cafe after being impressed with the espresso they made, it's called DiVenzio and it's not as good as Pasquale in any way but I don't have to travel to get it and it's almost $10 P/kilo cheaper -a very fair price for good beans.

    Both this blends are always no older than a week whenever I get them.

    I used to like blends from Coffex, I used them in my cafe, also Grinders most expensive blend (before it was owned by Coke), I did like coffee froma group (Coburg) but not any more, it's all boutique stuff now and not really my style, very acidic and under-roasted (for me).

    I'm 100% sure the best baristas will think I'm a joke and that my coffee tastes horrid, but I think the 'best' places in Melbourne make undrinkable rubbish.

    So I think none of my thoughts are of any use as taste is so subjective. I haven't had a single client that hasn't loved my espresso though made with my cheap $25 beans, cheap Sunbeam grinder and cheap old Silvia.

    Keep in mind I'm an espresso drinker, I rarely drink milk based and it's my opinion that pour over is best described as dirty water.
    Fair enough Bob, the only person you need to satisfy is yourself, taste is strongly related to your early experiences.

    Like you I started drinking espresso in the 70's/80's, in Adelaide this meant Italian type coffee all the way, I enjoyed it then and still do.

    Yep! I found most coffee in Italy very much to my taste, obviously doesn't please the average Aussie tutti frutti palate, but suits me down to the ground, and as far as I'm concerned, that's all that matters.

    Coffee tastes in Oz tend to ebb and flow like the tide, it seems to be a fashion/peer pressure type thing, I've discovered exactly what floats my boat and stick to it.

    For some reason Aussies adopt a my way or the highway type attitude, perhaps its isolation from whats going on in the rest of the world, vive la difference.
    Peer pressure.jpg

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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    I really like what Australia, esp Melbourne is doing with the coffee scene, so don't want to s*** on it, because I'm Aussie, I make products for export in Melbourne and so I'm 100% for pioneering an industry locally and supporting local talent.

    I think technically we can be much, much better than the Italians, which I think are a tad complacent, but most places are beyond pioneering techniques and upto what I call hipster nonsense. I really can't stand the coffee from the places recognised for being the best, my local $1 coffee is better -no exaggeration.

    When my family is over (from Rome) we often will end up at those hipster joints and they can't drink the coffee. It could be we're a bunch of negative Nancy's or too cool for enjoying progress though, maybe we don't like change, that may not be a good thing.

    I also don't like pizza other than VPN, shifting anything but a manual box and valve amps and DAT are my thing ��

    People huh?
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