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Thread: Old ACF cappuccino cup

  1. #1
    Junior Member MichelleM's Avatar
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    Old ACF cappuccino cup

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    Recently I was able to buy some old ACF cappuccino cups. Those have no markings on the bottom of the cups but a marking on the saucers which I guess is referring to the ACF model number.

    Looking for some more information about this kind of old ACF cups.

    Thank you,
    Michelle Marie




  2. #2
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    What information are you after?

  3. #3
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Site Sponsor - Coffee a Roma had them for sale (now sold out)
    https://www.coffee-a-roma.com.au/store/p302/ACF_Brown_Cups_68M_%28160ml%29.html


    That era of the ACF cups were some of the best commercial cups ever made. I still use ACF Black Tulip cups at work for the perfect long black.

    acf-black-tulip.jpg
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  4. #4
    Junior Member MichelleM's Avatar
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    Acf

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    Site Sponsor - Coffee a Roma had them for sale (now sold out)
    https://www.coffee-a-roma.com.au/store/p302/ACF_Brown_Cups_68M_%28160ml%29.html


    That era of the ACF cups were some of the best commercial cups ever made. I still use ACF Black Tulip cups at work for the perfect long black.

    acf-black-tulip.jpg
    Thanks Andy for your hint!

    I agree, as well for me those are best cups ever made.

    Hence I try to understand a bit more the history of the ACF cups as even in Italy is difficult to get some information regarding F.A.C. these days.

  5. #5
    Junior Member MichelleM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    What information are you after?
    Most interested I am to date those. As mentioned before, I believe that the '63' is the ACF model number and not the year. Below another saucer with the a '510'. Personaly I believe those were made in the 60's or 70's.

    Interesting is as well that the bottom is white regardless the top is marrone.


  6. #6
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    I have a set of 6 250 ML Black ACF cups and saucers, Bought them about 15 years ago, use them daily.

    Both cup and saucer have ACF made in Italy on the base, pressed into the clay prior to firing, beautiful! both to look at and use.
    DSC_9033.jpg
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  7. #7
    Junior Member MichelleM's Avatar
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    Thank you for sharing.

    Currently my personal favourite is the ACF Modello 66 marrone scuro with 160ml.

    But when a red version once will cross my way most likely then I will fall in love...


  8. #8
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    Itís interesting that there is no marking on the bottom of the cup.

    Mine have ACF embossed on the cup quite clearly, and a really poor recessed ACF on the saucer - so bad itís hard to make out.





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  9. #9
    Junior Member MichelleM's Avatar
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    Wow... so many red ACF cups It seams that you like them too! Maybe I should add a thread 'WTB'...

    Well, your version is the last one F.A.C. made. Interesting is that you have saucers with and without the white rim.

    I believe in 2009 they started with the red cups, here the add.


  10. #10
    Junior Member MichelleM's Avatar
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    And this is a set I believe F.A.C. / ACF made in the early years once they started, most made probably in the 50's.

    Those cups have not the egg shape inside and again another marking on the saucers.




  11. #11
    Senior Member fatboy_1999's Avatar
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    I think I have cups from the same era as the good Sir Knight.
    Mine have a clear ACF emboss on the cup but barely readable on the saucer.
    They have served us well even though there was a tragedy a couple of years back when a visitor managed to knock over our cup stand with their backpack and kill about 4 of our stock
    20190410_104154.jpg

  12. #12
    Junior Member MichelleM's Avatar
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    Personalty I believe that somewhere in the 80s ACF switched to this emboss marking on the cups and saucers and kept this until 2012. That the 'ACF' and 'Made in Italy' marking is hard to read on the saucers is somehow a unique attribute of ACF.

    Below a comparison of some saucers of the last version ACF produced. Small ones are modello 511 (65cl), the large one is modello 66 (160cl). The picture shows also the comparison of the two brown they made (marrone and marrone scuro).


  13. #13
    Junior Member MichelleM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatboy_1999 View Post
    I think I have cups from the same era as the good Sir Knight.
    Mine have a clear ACF emboss on the cup but barely readable on the saucer.
    They have served us well even though there was a tragedy a couple of years back when a visitor managed to knock over our cup stand with their backpack and kill about 4 of our stock
    20190410_104154.jpg
    Interesting for me from Europe to see how much black, red, pastel green, pastel blue etc. F.A.C. / ACF finally sold to Australia.

    Sadly, but I just learned that as newbie here it takes a while until I'm allowed to open a thread in the selling/buying corner. Hence hopefully Andy will not delete this post now...

    Indeed great would in case someone would like to sell some, or even one, of those nice red or pastel cups could send me a PM.

    Thank you!

  14. #14
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Pretty sure I remember reading story of worker strife at the factory in the last 10 years and it was severe enough to shut it down then they reopened then shut it down again shortly after, the last gasp. Maybe I drempt that but yes, they made a lot of good quality cups and gained wider exposure through sponsoring barista competitions around the world.

    I'm a bit surprised that you have so many ACF branded cups in Europe, seemed each time I was there they were FAC branded for Europe and the rest of the world had ACF. Again, it might be a blurry memory but I'm pretty sure at the World Latte Art comp in Cologne they had a stand selling only FAC.

    That event was also the first place I had seen d'Ancap cups for sale (as sold by site sponsor Casa Espresso). Seems d'Ancap has taken over in the hole left when FAC stopped production which is lucky for us, they also make great cup-ware.

    I've also seen a lot of China ACF copies over the years, some good, some nasty. Quality control on d'Ancup and FAC have always been very high compared to even other Italian makes.

  15. #15
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    ACF has been relaunched and its products are apparently available in Australia. The address provided on the website was an upmarket Italian restaurant in the Rocks, Sydney so not sure if there are retail sales available or they are merely the local distributor handling orders made online.
    Last edited by Javaphile; 10th April 2019 at 04:15 PM. Reason: Commercial link removed

  16. #16
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    I saw that but I'm not convinced that is the same factory.
    Shopify website with no real contact details smells too.
    If it looks like a duck and smells like a duck...

  17. #17
    Junior Member MichelleM's Avatar
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    I agree, it smells like a duck. In October I will try to locate them at the Host exhibition in Milan. Let's see...

    Here the 'new' webside of ACF:

    Commercial link removed as per Site Posting Policy
    Last edited by Javaphile; 10th April 2019 at 05:13 PM. Reason: Commercial link removed

  18. #18
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    This may be of interest Michelle, photo's of markings on my cups and saucers.

    Markings on the cup are raised and easily discernible, the saucer is very lightly marked and almost impossible to read or photograph.

    Not sure when they were made but obviously some time prior to early 2000's.
    DSC_2470_resized.jpg
    DSC_2469 - Copy_resized.jpg
    Last edited by Yelta; 10th April 2019 at 05:21 PM.

  19. #19
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    I saw that but I'm not convinced that is the same factory.
    It didn't seem quite genuine to me either . You would think they would have at least retained the original logo if not the actual cup designs.
    Did a domain lookup and the registrant is based in Hong Kong. Quack, quack!
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  20. #20
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Interesting, there used to be quite a bit of information on line regarding the old ACF company (I did some research many years ago) at the time there was talk of a family bust up, I believe it had to do with the death of one of the founders.

    It almost seems there has been an attempt to erase all information regarding the original company.

    I recall hearing the new mob knocked off the ACF name and have been attempting to present themselves as the original company.

    All I've been able to find online is this pic of ACF employees, supposed to have been taken about the time they closed down.

    I'm sure Chris from Talk Coffee could add a lot more to the story.
    acf-see-ya.jpg
    Last edited by Yelta; 10th April 2019 at 06:18 PM. Reason: Context

  21. #21
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    Is that Chris, third from the left in the yellow?

  22. #22
    Junior Member MichelleM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    Pretty sure I remember reading story of worker strife at the factory in the last 10 years and it was severe enough to shut it down then they reopened then shut it down again shortly after, the last gasp. Maybe I drempt that but yes, they made a lot of good quality cups and gained wider exposure through sponsoring barista competitions around the world.

    I'm a bit surprised that you have so many ACF branded cups in Europe, seemed each time I was there they were FAC branded for Europe and the rest of the world had ACF. Again, it might be a blurry memory but I'm pretty sure at the World Latte Art comp in Cologne they had a stand selling only FAC.

    That event was also the first place I had seen d'Ancap cups for sale (as sold by site sponsor Casa Espresso). Seems d'Ancap has taken over in the hole left when FAC stopped production which is lucky for us, they also make great cup-ware.

    I've also seen a lot of China ACF copies over the years, some good, some nasty. Quality control on d'Ancup and FAC have always been very high compared to even other Italian makes.
    Well, I would say the brand of the cups is ACF but the company is called F.A.C. Just in Italy itself they speak about F.A.C. cups.

    I don't want to shift to much off-topic. But if there is a general interest I could open a new thread with the hope that one day I have my 5 or 6 done to be allowed to open a dedicated WBT thread for red ACF cups...

    Just in nut shell: F.A.C. Fabbrica Albisolese Ceramiche SpA, or they used internally just 'FAC – Porcellane ACF', have had two trademarks (shown below) valid until 20-Dec-2017. This is most likely the reason why the Chinese using now 'ACF' to produce cups.



    I agree, the d'Ancap cups coming very close to the ACF. So, if someone is looking for the iconic small ACF modello 511, the model Palermo of d'Ancap is a good choice. If I would open a coffee shop I would choose d'Ancap.
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  23. #23
    Junior Member MichelleM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Interesting, there used to be quite a bit of information on line regarding the old ACF company (I did some research many years ago) at the time there was talk of a family bust up, I believe it had to do with the death of one of the founders.

    It almost seems there has been an attempt to erase all information regarding the original company.

    I recall hearing the new mob knocked off the ACF name and have been attempting to present themselves as the original company.

    All I've been able to find online is this pic of ACF employees, supposed to have been taken about the time they closed down.

    I'm sure Chris from Talk Coffee could add a lot more to the story.
    acf-see-ya.jpg
    As with most Italian companies it is not so easy to get information. Reason for this I believe is due to the Italian culture and how they run family business. Some years ago I did some spirit, to be precise Amaro, research and I was as well surprised how difficult it is to get company and product information. Even about a world famous brand like Campari. But back to F.A.C. Again, in a nut shell.

    F.A.C. Fabbrica Albisolese Ceramiche was founded in 1950 by Giuseppe Venturi. Then 1954 Giacinto Canepa joint as a partner. In 2009 Silvia Canepa became president of F.A.C. while her brother, Alberto Canepa, was acting as Managing Director. In the picture above Silvia is 3rd from left, Alberto 2nd from left (first row).

    And then finally, on 28-Nov-2012 at 11am, the insolvency process of F.A.C. has been started. A said story, sorry
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  24. #24
    Junior Member MichelleM's Avatar
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    When we talk about FAC and ACF it is maybe worth to mentioned how they used the terms on their own card boxes. Below two examples they used the last years when F.A.C. was still up and running.


  25. #25
    Junior Member MichelleM's Avatar
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    Really no site sponsor or long time member here which has maybe an old ACF catalogue available issued somewhere before 2000?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MichelleM View Post
    Really no site sponsor or long time member here which has maybe an old ACF catalogue available issued somewhere before 2000?
    Hi Michelle, maybe I can answer some questions for you. We recently started carrying ACF Cups (genuine, imported from Italy) at grshop and modernplanet.com. The original company is in fact back in production.

  27. #27
    Senior Member fatboy_1999's Avatar
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    I doubt that the original company is back in production.
    As has been stated here previously, the name seems to have been purchased and a different company is making the cups now.
    The pictures for these cups in the link that will no doubt soon be removed shows the logo on the base is quite different to the originals.
    I'm also highly dubious of the 'imported from Italy' when the website for the cups themselves is registered to an address in China (with an Australian contact phone number - Isn't Whois fantastic?)

    As an owner of some originals, I'd love to see the real thing back again. What you're talking about, ain't them.

    Brett.
    Last edited by fatboy_1999; 16th November 2019 at 10:34 AM. Reason: more info
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  28. #28
    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Chinese once again trying to cash in on an established company's good name. It is not the same product even though they are trying to trade on the reputation of the original Italian manufacturer. Easy to spot by the handle attachment to the cup for starters. Should be forced to make it clear it is now Chinese manufactured rather than the attempted deception.

    Chinese ACF.jpg

    https://www.cafcaf.de/kaffeekultur/d...fekten-tassen/

    Company went into liquidation - http://www.portalecreditori.it/procedura?id=JwMmJxEKm6
    (You may have to right click and "Translate to English".)

    https://coffeesnobs.com.au/off-topic...you-use-3.html

    Not sure if this is the smoking gun but the listing on Alibaba seems to indicate the manufacturer to now be - "Shanghai Fine-V Ceramic Gift Intl Trade Co., Ltd."?

    Fake ACF.png

    https://www.alibaba.com/countrysearch/CN/acf-cups.html
    https://fine-v.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html#top-nav-bar


    Currently I'm trying to wade through the vast number of fake Chinese manufactured cordless tool batteries which are illegally branded as Makita. Anyone caught selling them should be dealt with harshly. Big fines, Stock confiscated, deported (if applicable). If only we could turn back time....

    And in return our politicians allow this to happen....

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-...roved/11707190

    Last edited by CafeLotta; 16th November 2019 at 02:33 PM. Reason: More links added. Pictures added.
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  29. #29
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    The handles attach differently in the two sets of photos. The first group attach separately to and button of the handle. The AB one the handle is a complete loop and the whole side of the handle attached to the cup.

  30. #30
    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    The handles attach differently in the two sets of photos. The first group attach separately to and button of the handle. The AB one the handle is a complete loop and the whole side of the handle attached to the cup.
    Yeah, I did notice that. When I went to that particular Chinese manufacturer's website and looked under coffee sets, they had both types of handle designs including the type on the 2019 "ACF" cups. They also had quite a number of other cup designs listed with a few that looked suspiciously like a number of other manufacturer's designs, including award winning German manufacturer Villeroy & Boch's New Wave cup and plate design. https://www.villeroy-boch.com.au/pro...ave-caffe.html

    Fake V&B New Wave.jpg

    https://fine-v.en.alibaba.com/produc...555745ddNJOfMm
    Last edited by CafeLotta; 16th November 2019 at 02:42 PM.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatboy_1999 View Post
    I doubt that the original company is back in production.
    As has been stated here previously, the name seems to have been purchased and a different company is making the cups now.
    The pictures for these cups in the link that will no doubt soon be removed shows the logo on the base is quite different to the originals.
    I'm also highly dubious of the 'imported from Italy' when the website for the cups themselves is registered to an address in China (with an Australian contact phone number - Isn't Whois fantastic?)

    As an owner of some originals, I'd love to see the real thing back again. What you're talking about, ain't them.

    Brett.
    To my knowledge the design and production continues to be lead by the original team, but the parent company is now Fraser-Group, strategically headquartered in Hong Kong. They have factories, offices, and warehouses in Hong Kong, Delaware, Los Angeles, Pennsylvania, Brisbane, Shenzhen, Amsterdam, and Milan, etc. Specifically, ACF Porcellane is based out of Milan Italy. The Australian contact you mentioned is Mark Fraser. I encourage you to ask questions on their contact form to get first hand knowledge for yourself. If the following link gets removed, so be it.

    Contact — Fraser Group

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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post
    Chinese once again trying to cash in on an established company's good name. It is not the same product even though they are trying to trade on the reputation of the original Italian manufacturer. Easy to spot by the handle attachment to the cup for starters. Should be forced to make it clear it is now Chinese manufactured rather than the attempted deception.

    Chinese ACF.jpg

    https://www.cafcaf.de/kaffeekultur/d...fekten-tassen/

    Company went into liquidation - 28/2012 F.A.C. Fabbrica Albisolese Ceramiche s.p.a. in liquidazione - Fallimento - Portale dei creditori - Fallco
    (You may have to right click and "Translate to English".)

    https://coffeesnobs.com.au/off-topic...you-use-3.html

    Not sure if this is the smoking gun but the listing on Alibaba seems to indicate the manufacturer to now be - "Shanghai Fine-V Ceramic Gift Intl Trade Co., Ltd."?

    Fake ACF.png

    https://www.alibaba.com/countrysearch/CN/acf-cups.html
    https://fine-v.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html#top-nav-bar


    Currently I'm trying to wade through the vast number of fake Chinese manufactured cordless tool batteries which are illegally branded as Makita. Anyone caught selling them should be dealt with harshly. Big fines, Stock confiscated, deported (if applicable). If only we could turn back time....

    And in return our politicians allow this to happen....

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-...roved/11707190

    The design has gone through changes. They've changed the handle for ergonomic purposes and they've rounded the base notably.

    The company was liquidated in 2012. I'm not sure the exact date of the brand acquisition by Fraser-Group.

    The Alibaba link is not an authorized dealer.

    Along with having the ability to send them an e-mail, you can also physically mail their head office at the following:

    ACF MILANO Via Libero, Temolo 4
    20126 Milano, Italia



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