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Thread: What if you just want a great tasting coffee without too much hassle?

  1. #101
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    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    Using a consistent dose weight of beans is an easily repeatable way of fine tuning a recipe. Weighing is arguably the best way to ensure a consistent dose weight, but it's not the only one. Dosing by volume can be very consistent but the volume of a given weight changes with the grind setting. It could be said that if you understand intuitively that to fix under our over extraction when the shot looked good visually and timewise by moving grind setting and volume in opposite directions then you'll be able to get by just fine without weighing.

    I think where weighing really helps is in two areas: 1. Starting out when you find it hardest to be consistent in a few areas (e.g. distribution and tamping etc) so ruling out weight as a variable can be quite helpful. 2. When you're chasing the perfect extraction. For the 80% in between these it's less critical

    Some people weigh every shot before they pull it, others set it up with scales then use something else day to day (a timer, volume, etc) for speed and ease.
    That's why I like the Scottie Callaghan dosing tools. Quick and easy to vary dosing with consistency. Checked my dosing with the 3 week old "rubbish" Aldi Peru beans this morning and found I was just touching the screen. Went to the next size (deeper) dosing tool to lower the dose slightly, pulled a shot which ran through a little quick. Adjusted the grind a touch finer and the next shot was fine. Discovered some caramel that wasn't there in the previous dose/grind combination.

    Like many people, I find it easy to get complacent and use previous settings rather than dialing in properly when I use a new bag of beans. Adjusting the grind slightly as they age is easy but experimenting a little is a weekend job when there is more time.
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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    I recalibrated the gears finer on a friend's 870 and got good results. Didn't realise I had reinvented the wheel so to speak when I posted instructions a month or two ago. Pretty much identical method to the CS one linked at the top of that HB thread.
    Linking your grinder recalibration post in case someone else is interested in it - https://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-e...sure-drop.html

  3. #103
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    Using a consistent dose weight of beans is an easily repeatable way of fine tuning a recipe. Weighing is arguably the best way to ensure a consistent dose weight, but it's not the only one. Dosing by volume can be very consistent but the volume of a given weight changes with the grind setting. It could be said that if you understand intuitively that to fix under our over extraction when the shot looked good visually and timewise by moving grind setting and volume in opposite directions then you'll be able to get by just fine without weighing.

    I think where weighing really helps is in two areas: 1. Starting out when you find it hardest to be consistent in a few areas (e.g. distribution and tamping etc) so ruling out weight as a variable can be quite helpful. 2. When you're chasing the perfect extraction. For the 80% in between these it's less critical

    Some people weigh every shot before they pull it, others set it up with scales then use something else day to day (a timer, volume, etc) for speed and ease.
    I'm in the weigh every dose before grinding camp (I single dose) its easy, quick and gives very consistent results, simply becomes part of the process.

    Been using an electronic scale I bought online for less than $10 about 8 years ago, 200g x 0.01g more than accurate enough for the purpose, plenty available online for under $20.
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  4. #104
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    There is certainly a minimum level of fuss required to enjoy a good cup of Coffee. The degree is up to you.
    My beverage is either a double espresso or a long black, therefore a minimal level of fuss required.
    I'm doing my thing with a 6910 and a 480 grinder. I weigh out my grind into a dossing cup, dose portafilter, tamp, extract, Enjoy.
    Happy days!

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    I’ve started measuring the shot after I’ve ground the coffee. Whether this is wrong or right, I’ll continue doing it this way until I know what I’m I’m doing and don’t need to anymore.

    If i I like a strong (NOT bitter/burnt) is it best to get a dark roast?

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    The Bes870 is easy to setup for volumetric dosing by trial and error, after all it is a semiautomatic appliance. However you can do everything manually, your choice to weigh and time shoots. The razor is a bit of a gimmick, but can help in the early days. Have fun.

  7. #107
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen00 View Post
    Iíve started measuring the shot after Iíve ground the coffee. Whether this is wrong or right, Iíll continue doing it this way until I know what Iím Iím doing and donít need to anymore.

    If i I like a strong (NOT bitter/burnt) is it best to get a dark roast?
    Will be fine Carmen, weigh before or after grinding, as long as your getting a consistent dose.

    If you prefer Italian style coffee (my preference) the darker roast is certainly the way to go, experiment, sounds like you've got the idea.
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Will be fine Carmen, weigh before or after grinding, as long as your getting a consistent dose.

    If you prefer Italian style coffee (my preference) the darker roast is certainly the way to go, experiment, sounds like you've got the idea.
    it must be Italian style that I prefer.
    When I was in Italy, even the coffee that was made by a barista at a petrol station tasted delicious!

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen00 View Post
    it must be Italian style that I prefer.
    When I was in Italy, even the coffee that was made by a barista at a petrol station tasted delicious!
    We experienced similar, most of our coffee experiences in Italy were good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen00 View Post
    I’ve started measuring the shot after I’ve ground the coffee. Whether this is wrong or right, I’ll continue doing it this way until I know what I’m I’m doing and don’t need to anymore.

    If i I like a strong (NOT bitter/burnt) is it best to get a dark roast?
    Measuring what you can will only help. Good on you.

    The idea that "dark roasts" are "strong" is a really common source of confusion. To put it really simply: no. What you need is probably a properly developed roast of a high body and low acid coffee, like a brazillian pulped natural.

    Unfortunately for all of us, the industry doesn't have a good way of describing roast levels, so you're sort of a bit out of luck. To add further confusion, the brew temperature that your machine produces and the characteristics of your grinder will also affect the roast that will work best for you. It's entirely possible that a coffee that tastes great to you on one machine and grinder will not taste good on yours. So what this boils down to is that there's going to be some trial and error in finding what works and your best bet is still to buy the beans that the cafe that you like the most is using and start from there. Can you adjust the brew temperature on your machine? If you can, we might be able to help you there.

    It's worth spending a minute clarifying a few concepts here. When people talk about "strong", there are a few different things bundled together that they usually mean: low acid and high body are usually a given; some people also like bitter, so it's useful to see that you've specified you don't want bitter/burnt. People usually also mean that they want flavours in the nutty/roasty spectrum and not fruit and floral flavours. Generally, body increases as roasts are taken darker up to a certain point, then it starts to drop off. People who buy dark roasts for big body are often surprised when they try a few roasts of the same coffee next to each other and find out that the darkest one is not the one with the highest body. Acidity also decreases the longer the roast takes; generally darker roasts take longer than lighter roasts (not always), so darker roasts are sometimes lower in acidity. Coffee develops roast bitterness at low roast levels that would surprise many people. Brazil and El Salvadorean coffees are probably your best bet for big body, sweet, low acid and nutty. Try to avoid coffees from Africa; they are likely to have higher acidity, fruit and floral flavours (lots of people love them). Central and South America will be OK depending on roast level. If you don't want much acidity, try to steer clear of colombia and bolivia.

    Whatever coffee you are using, you will probably need to fit as much coffee as you can in the basket and make sure it isn't extracting at too fast a flow rate. The lighter the roast level, the less it will punish you with increased bitterness if your flow rate is too slow.
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    Quote Originally Posted by luca View Post
    Measuring what you can will only help. Good on you.

    Try to avoid coffees from Africa; they are likely to have higher acidity, fruit and floral flavours (lots of people love them). Central and South America will be OK depending on roast level. If you don't want much acidity, try to steer clear of colombia and bolivia.

    Whatever coffee you are using, you will probably need to fit as much coffee as you can in the basket and make sure it isn't extracting at too fast a flow rate. The lighter the roast level, the less it will punish you with increased bitterness if your flow rate is too slow.
    I just ordered some Colombian coffee!!��
    oh well, I’ll save it for the guests if it’s too acidic for my liking.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by luca View Post
    Measuring what you can will only help. Good on you.

    The idea that "dark roasts" are "strong" is a really common source of confusion. To put it really simply: no. What you need is probably a properly developed roast of a high body and low acid coffee, like a brazillian pulped natural.

    Unfortunately for all of us, the industry doesn't have a good way of describing roast levels, so you're sort of a bit out of luck. To add further confusion, the brew temperature that your machine produces and the characteristics of your grinder will also affect the roast that will work best for you. It's entirely possible that a coffee that tastes great to you on one machine and grinder will not taste good on yours. So what this boils down to is that there's going to be some trial and error in finding what works and your best bet is still to buy the beans that the cafe that you like the most is using and start from there. Can you adjust the brew temperature on your machine? If you can, we might be able to help you there.

    It's worth spending a minute clarifying a few concepts here. When people talk about "strong", there are a few different things bundled together that they usually mean: low acid and high body are usually a given; some people also like bitter, so it's useful to see that you've specified you don't want bitter/burnt. People usually also mean that they want flavours in the nutty/roasty spectrum and not fruit and floral flavours. Generally, body increases as roasts are taken darker up to a certain point, then it starts to drop off. People who buy dark roasts for big body are often surprised when they try a few roasts of the same coffee next to each other and find out that the darkest one is not the one with the highest body. Acidity also decreases the longer the roast takes; generally darker roasts take longer than lighter roasts (not always), so darker roasts are sometimes lower in acidity. Coffee develops roast bitterness at low roast levels that would surprise many people. Brazil and El Salvadorean coffees are probably your best bet for big body, sweet, low acid and nutty. Try to avoid coffees from Africa; they are likely to have higher acidity, fruit and floral flavours (lots of people love them). Central and South America will be OK depending on roast level. If you don't want much acidity, try to steer clear of colombia and bolivia.

    Whatever coffee you are using, you will probably need to fit as much coffee as you can in the basket and make sure it isn't extracting at too fast a flow rate. The lighter the roast level, the less it will punish you with increased bitterness if your flow rate is too slow.
    Hmmm, cant say I'm entirely on board with what you say here Luca, perhaps I'm a bit of an exception.

    I like coffee originating from Africa and South America, over more years than I choose to disclose I've determined I much prefer the chocolaty flavour, big mouth feel and characteristics of darker roasted beans, not talking about roasting to the point of oily or black beans, however certainly darker than average, not a fan at all of lighter roasted beans (fruit and floral flavours) they simply don't do it for me.

    Made a point of checking roast levels used for espresso in Italy, very little lightly roasted beans in evidence over there.

    Coffee from SE Asia is on my avoid list, simply doesn't do it for me either, I dislike the earthy characteristics.
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    Yelta am I allowed to ask what coffee you buy or sometimes buy?

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    Yelta, I don’t think that anything that you wrote is inconsistent with anything I wrote.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Hmmm, cant say I'm entirely on board with what you say here Luca, perhaps I'm a bit of an exception.

    I like coffee originating from Africa and South America, over more years than I choose to disclose I've determined I much prefer the chocolaty flavour, big mouth feel and characteristics of darker roasted beans, not talking about roasting to the point of oily or black beans, however certainly darker than average, not a fan at all of lighter roasted beans (fruit and floral flavours) they simply don't do it for me.

    Made a point of checking roast levels used for espresso in Italy, very little lightly roasted beans in evidence over there.

    Coffee from SE Asia is on my avoid list, simply doesn't do it for me either, I dislike the earthy characteristics.
    I think Yelta that you are talking about personal prospective, where Luca is talking technically correct and disregarding personal preference.

    What you refer to as a darker roast can be achieved with a roast that has better develop but also without the dark roast nasties. It will have more solubility also and therefore be easier to use and have higher extraction yields eg more flavour.
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  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen00 View Post
    Yelta am I allowed to ask what coffee you buy or sometimes buy?
    Sure thing, this is a copy of my latest green bean order from Coffee Snobs, delivered about a week ago.

    Name Quantity Total Item Price
    Colombian Volcan Galeras Supremo 5.00kg $57.50
    Ethiopian Gambella Sundried 5.00kg $55.00
    Ethiopia Limmu 5.00kg $62.50
    Brazil Yellow Bourbon Especial 5.00kg $62.50
    India Monsoon Malabar Gold 4.00kg $44.00
    India Elephant Hills Peaberry 5.00kg $55.00
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  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by luca View Post
    Yelta, I donít think that anything that you wrote is inconsistent with anything I wrote.
    Fair enough, perhaps its a misreading on my part, must admit I'm not big on the science of coffee, my knowledge of coffee has been gained by experience rather than theory.

    I roast and make coffee to suit myself and those around me, I have no need to make adjustments to my technique.

    I realise my methods may not appeal to others, though must admit when served to visitors the comments are usually favorable, of course there's always the possibility they are simply being polite.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Sure thing, this is a copy of my latest green bean order from Coffee Snobs, delivered about a week ago.

    Name Quantity Total Item Price
    Colombian Volcan Galeras Supremo 5.00kg $57.50
    Ethiopian Gambella Sundried 5.00kg $55.00
    Ethiopia Limmu 5.00kg $62.50
    Brazil Yellow Bourbon Especial 5.00kg $62.50
    India Monsoon Malabar Gold 4.00kg $44.00
    India Elephant Hills Peaberry 5.00kg $55.00
    Yelta, how long does it take to use that 29 kg ? I use 1 kg in three weeks, hence my curiosity.

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarrenK View Post
    Yelta, how long does it take to use that 29 kg ? I use 1 kg in three weeks, hence my curiosity.
    Morning Warren, I should have explained in my post the order will be shared with my son in law, my 15 kg (approx) should last me about 7 or 8 months.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    The Silvia was a good little machine in its day, much better machines available now.
    I've got a Silvia I'm looking at replacing, what are examples of 'much better machines' for the price of a used Silvia?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobSac View Post
    I've got a Silvia I'm looking at replacing, what are examples of 'much better machines' for the price of a used Silvia?
    BobSac

    That's going to be a VERY short list ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobSac View Post
    I've got a Silvia I'm looking at replacing, what are examples of 'much better machines' for the price of a used Silvia?
    I was obviously referring to people contemplating buying a new machine (didn't think I needed to spell it out) a new Silvia will cost you a little over $900, quite a few better options to choose from in that price bracket.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    I was obviously referring to people contemplating buying a new machine (didn't think I needed to spell it out) a new Silvia will cost you a little over $900, quite a few better options to choose from in that price bracket.
    What would that be?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobSac View Post
    What would that be?
    Lelit PL41TEMD

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    Or the Breville Dual Boiler if you want something cheaper...

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobSac View Post
    What would that be?
    Attention! possible WUM alert.

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    I bought the Breville dual boiler recently.
    Nice machine, but not really comparable to the Silvia imo.

    It's a dual boiler and it's going to last a few years at best.

    My Silvia is 10 years old and still works fine, no servicing.

    I'm not being facetious, I genuinely believe it's useful to have a list of single boiler machines similar to the Silvia in a similar price bracket so we can analyse specifications and anyone looking at purchasing can make a more informed decision.

    I'm looking at buying something to replace the Silvia only because I have gear upgrade itis

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    Bobsac there a few comparisons of the lelit and sylvia on here, I think the ECM single boiler E61 is near the top of the single boiler pile but double the price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 338 View Post
    Bobsac there a few comparisons of the lelit and sylvia on here, I think the ECM single boiler E61 is near the top of the single boiler pile but double the price.
    Yeah, so not really comparable.
    Hencey question, because I'm really genuinely interested, what's about the price of a Silvia (say within $200) and significantly better, enough to justtify am extra $200.

    Or, what does what the Silvia does, including taking into account build quality and costs less than a Silvia.

    Would be interesting, my Silvia is getting on and I wouldn't mind a new toy, I looked around and found nothing, but perhaps I've missed an option or two.

    I'd argue the Lelit PL41TEMD mentioned above comes closest, but it's still $100 more and has what seems to be a pressure gauge and PID, both of which can be fit to the Silvia equalising the cost, in which case I'd argue the Silvia is the better option as the tried and true product.

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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobSac View Post
    Yeah, so not really comparable.
    Hencey question, because I'm really genuinely interested, what's about the price of a Silvia (say within $200) and significantly better, enough to justtify am extra $200.

    Or, what does what the Silvia does, including taking into account build quality and costs less than a Silvia.

    Would be interesting, my Silvia is getting on and I wouldn't mind a new toy, I looked around and found nothing, but perhaps I've missed an option or two.

    I'd argue the Lelit PL41TEMD mentioned above comes closest, but it's still $100 more and has what seems to be a pressure gauge and PID, both of which can be fit to the Silvia equalising the cost, in which case I'd argue the Silvia is the better option as the tried and true product.
    Add the new Brugnetti Simona Top to that list.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    Add the new Brugnetti Simona Top to that list.
    Will check it out!

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    Bobsac fair to value things how you see fit. You are handier than me, for the $80 difference really wouldn't allow any value on my time to install a gauge and pid, it would take me an hour just to drill the stainless cover of the Sylvia to accept the gauge. Then the pid wouldn't be warranted, the sylvia importer want $249 for pid with warranty. So in the end I would have spent hours doing the work, to end up with a machine with no pid or gauge warranty and still has a slower warmup, a smaller drip tray and mild steel rather than stainless frame. Seems a no brainer to me on a new purchase. Can understand if you have an existing Sylvia you may choose to keep it rather than change, but for a new purchase the value difference exceeds the price difference.
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    You've cherry picked some pros, but the pros of the Silvia are it's tried and tested scorecard, it's 58mm group handle that I use on a bunch of other machines including my Expobar and the spare parts.

    I'm not bagging the Lelit, I just think it has less brand cache and a few important specs aren't on par with the Rancilio.

    It certainly is a worthy competitor, but Rancilio have obviously priced their machine to still be successful.

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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Fresh on demand is always best Carmen00, coffee is so personal and really what one person likes is not necessarily what another does. Like wine, you probably don't want to drink the same brand and variety every time and so you experiment. Coffee is the same in my opinion. If you drink a latte then you will want something that cuts through milk and a dose that allows you to have a balance between milk and coffee. We have a lot of customers with automatic machines who want a better tasting coffee than capsules and a lot with high end cafe like home machines. Again a personal decision as to how much money you have to spend, how much time and effort you want to put into your morning cuppa and how much space you have in your kitchen. What ever you do please don't buy capsules as they are really just a step up from instant, they are not environmentally friendly and they are not supporting a local family business.
    Last edited by Leaf_Bean_Machine; 5 Days Ago at 08:33 PM. Reason: Added more information
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