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Thread: Have you noticed the quality of cafe coffees declining?

  1. #1
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    Have you noticed the quality of cafe coffees declining?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I’ve never owned a coffee machine (yet) and have bought coffee for many years.

    I’ve noticed in the last couple of years the ratio of good coffees to bad coffees is much higher for bad ones.
    I’d estimate that about 20% of the coffees I buy now are great ones that I can’t fault. The other 80% I either need to throw out or they are barely drinkable. I do sometimes take it back and get them to remake it but I don’t always have time. These coffees are from the same coffee shops (mostly but not always) made by the same barista on the same machine with the same beans. I don’t believe that the beans are stale as with such high turnover they wouldn’t get time to become stale. Also they’ve also produced delicious coffee on the odd occasion.

    So why do you think it is?
    With expensive machines, good beans and proper training you’d expect that even McCafť should be able to produce something decent!

    Its so frustrating.
    Last edited by Carmen00; 2 Weeks Ago at 06:52 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Good question. I think I have, but, to give people credit, I think that the quality at the top end has improved too.

    I think that the problem is this: over the last ten years, it has become much easier for the growing and the consuming sides of the world to communicate and trade has become a lot easier. 20 years ago, if you wanted to start a small coffee roasters, it was a pipe dream and it was hard. You had to go to roaster manufacturers overseas to get a roaster. Your options for buying green were limited. All coffee was roasted much darker than it is now and that was really the only style on the Australian market. Now, if you want to start a small coffee roastery, it's a proven business model and there are any number of wholesale suppliers of green beans, roasting equipment, etc. You don't even need to buy your own roaster; there are plenty of places around where you can rent time on someone else's roaster and buy relatively small amounts of green. So the barriers to entry have fallen, pretty much to the point where cafe owners can start roasting for themselves at small volumes to save money, whereas 20 years ago the fixed costs would have meant that they need to be at very high volumes. This means that there are a lot of people starting up who are looking around, copying all of the branding and words that everyone else has, but, to put it bluntly, they don't have much experience and they do a bad job. But they still market in the same way that everyone else does, so it's hard for the consumer to appreciate the difference. The food media is even more clueless - none of them will ever write about any place being bad; it's not good business and they have even less experience than people in the industry, so they probably don't know. However, they will get clicks for reporting what is hot and new and, since they basically don't meaningfully explain quality differences, the public will rightly be confused and expect the new places all have an equally good chance of being good. You don't have to have any sort of qualification that you reach a minimum standard to call yourself a professional coffee roaster. So the proliferation of roasters is one reason why it's a bit more hit and miss.

    Another reason is because there are lots of different styles of coffee on offer. 20 years ago, basically to be good, coffee had to be full bodied, nutty and chocolatey. Now, people appreciate coffee that is fruity, acidic and has low body. Both are legitimate styles. However, despite the industry's focus on pointing our varieties, processing methods and origins, I don't think that consumers really understand the difference. I think that most people wouldn't know their catuai from their catimors or their brazils from their bolivias. So I think that consumers are faced with a lot more choice, but are ill equipped to choose it. Part of it is a sort of timidness on the part of cafes. They want to market their coffees with their descriptors, not to turn people away from it. So they might say that an Ethiopian coffee is fruity and aromatic, but they're unlikely to fully describe it and say that it has low body and high acidity, since a lot of people don't like low body and high acidity. So those people will be disappointed if they order it.

    I think that when it comes to talking about coffee quality, we really need to be talking about it in a few different ways. First, what is the style? Second, is it good within that style? It's not fair to say that a high body, low acidity, low aroma, nutty, chocolatey coffee is bad. It is a particular style. It is not fair to say that a fruity, aromatic, sweet, acidic, low bodied coffee is bad. It is also a particular style. Second, how good is it within that style? I think that there are a whole bunch of things that we should all agree are defects: excessive bitterness, ashiness, grassiness are obvious ones. The more tricky things are things that are more at the level of 'taints' rather than 'faults'. For example, I think that a lot of people that like big bodied low acid styles don't seem to be too fussed by earthy mould taint, smoke taint, a bit of roast char and a little bit of baked character. If you are a consumer, regardless of what your taste preferences are, there's a good chance that many roasters are executing the particular style that they have chosen poorly.

    Unfortunately, I think people's familiarity with different coffee styles is really limited. It's like people going to a store and asking to buy 'music' without specifying any particular style of music or band. To use the music example I think a lot of people probably get disappointed because they are asking for 'music', what they really want is 'rap' and what they are being given is 'classical'.

    Personally, I do really struggle with a lot of commercial roasts, to the point where I'm now actually looking at home roasting again to see if I can do better on quality rather than price. It's not easy.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    I've found the exact opposite Carmen, over the past 10 years I've found the standard of espresso in Australia has improved out of sight.

    Not saying its not possible to get a dud, however its its much easier now, even in regional area's to get something very acceptable.
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    I agree Yelta I reckon there is more quality and diversity.

    Not so long ago if you ordered a coffee at a restaurant after your meal you were just as likely to be served an instant coffee!

    Cheers

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    I normally order a strong latte and I often get a coffee that tastes burned. Like something has gone wrong and I accidentally got old water from the drip tray!
    The foam looks separate from the rest of the coffee and is white and airy.
    I think even a type of bean that’s not my favourite could taste nice if the latte is that caramel colour with beautiful creamy dense foam.

    Often the whole thing looks grey.

    I get very excited these days when I get a good one!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen00 View Post
    Iíve never owned a coffee machine (yet) and have bought coffee for many years.

    Iíve noticed in the last couple of years the ratio of good coffees to bad coffees is much higher for bad ones.
    Id estimate that about 20% of the coffees I buy now are great ones that I canít fault. The other 80% I either need to throw out or they are barely drinkable. I do sometimes take it back and get them to remake it but I donít always have time. These coffees are from the same coffee shops (mostly but not always) made by the same barista on the same machine with the same beans. I donít believe that the beans are stale as with such high turnover they wouldnít get time to become stale. Also theyíve also produced delicious coffee on the odd occasion.

    So why do you think it is?
    With expensive machines, good beans and proper training youíd expect that even McCafť should be able to produce something decent!

    Its so frustrating.
    I really think Luca has nailed a lot of the "trend" with these snippets.

    Quote Originally Posted by luca View Post
    Good question. I think I have, but, to give people credit, I think that the quality at the top end has improved too.

    Another reason is because there are lots of different styles of coffee on offer. 20 years ago, basically to be good, coffee had to be full bodied, nutty and chocolatey. Now, people appreciate coffee that is fruity, acidic and has low body. Both are legitimate styles. However, despite the industry's focus on pointing our varieties, processing methods and origins, I don't think that consumers really understand the difference. I think that most people wouldn't know their catuai from their catimors or their brazils from their bolivias. So I think that consumers are faced with a lot more choice, but are ill equipped to choose it. Part of it is a sort of timidness on the part of cafes. They want to market their coffees with their descriptors, not to turn people away from it. So they might say that an Ethiopian coffee is fruity and aromatic, but they're unlikely to fully describe it and say that it has low body and high acidity, since a lot of people don't like low body and high acidity. So those people will be disappointed if they order it.

    Unfortunately, I think people's familiarity with different coffee styles is really limited. It's like people going to a store and asking to buy 'music' without specifying any particular style of music or band. To use the music example I think a lot of people probably get disappointed because they are asking for 'music', what they really want is 'rap' and what they are being given is 'classical'.

    Personally, I do really struggle with a lot of commercial roasts, to the point where I'm now actually looking at home roasting again to see if I can do better on quality rather than price. It's not easy.
    I also think the quality at the top has improved - way, way out of sight generally.

    Starting with beans, over here in West Oz in the mid '70's Lindsay did a deal with a lot of farmers all around the planet - stop putting toxic crap on your harvest and I will pay you a lot more for your crop. He also started moving away from the roasted "chocolate bomb" coffee that was ubiquitous everywhere else in Oz, mainly due to his (insanely expensive) air bed roaster and his huge (also insanely expensive) Mahlkoenig "EK43's great grandfather" grinder. This got to the point my IT clients demanded that every interstate trip I did involved taking them some of his roasts. Back then I had to allow 10Kg of my 45Kg airline baggage limit to his coffee - or else the clients (willingly) paid for the excess freight. Meanwhile Melbourne was doing Italian dark roast "business as usual" - and some cafes were really good in that style, which is probably your preference (and I still like it "a lot" as a change). Unless I missed it, Sydney (my original home state, and where most of my "interstate coffee" ended up) was still on Nescafe or totally bitter undrinkable espresso. Even as late as 2007, I have yet to have better than barely drinkable cuppa there.

    Today, better roasters are available at far lower prices. Really, really good roasters in the 70's started at well over 100K, my Behmor 1600+ was under $500 a few years back and only airbed roasters do a better job - ask Andy's (CS owner) kids for the MICE gold medal list they have won with their Behmors. Impressive performer for little cost.

    Far better grinders at better prices (at all levels / markets) are out there now, and are improving rapidly. The Smartgrinder I mentioned to you in another post is similar quality "in the cuppa" at a fraction the cost of most commercial grinders a few years back (admittedly without the longevity) - and a number of $700 to $2K grinders today would outperform the "sanely priced oldies" by a wide margin.

    Espresso machines and associated techniques (e.g. preinfusion) have also improved and are a lot cheaper nowadays.

    Far better grinders at better prices (at all levels / markets) and better espresso machines all work in the favour of committed, caring baristas. So the top end improved radically here in the West from 1975 to (say) 1977 and then kept improving at a slower rate.

    A good barista used to be highly paid and valued. I wonder how much most cafes (McCafes et al) pay their "barista"? I doubt that wages have even remained steady. I know some of the "genuine baristas" I have trained got out of the industry because they were offered minimal increments over the basic wage and literally felt underpaid and underappreciated. A couple of them even have a few state and international "coffee trophies" on their wall.

    So, putting all that together, the fly in the ointment is that any idiot with a few thou spare can buy equipment today that could literally blow the best stuff of (say) twenty years ago away - if they know how to use it.

    I admit to quite a few few pet peeves.
    1) Multi hole steaming wands and more steaming power means 90% of milk drinks are scalded "right in front of my eyes". Instant sink shot that no coffee can ever recover from.
    2) Wannabee 3rd wave baristas have not worked out the lighter roasts take longer to stop being too green to use - if the beans smell green, do not use them dudes! Instant sink shot due to the dreaded (by me and a few others) "wheatgrass". Occasionally also served with optional extreme sour notes.
    3) Roasters who look at Starcharcoal and roast that dark. Instant sink shot due to the overpowering burnt smell / taste that no amount of sugar can disguise.
    4) "Baristas" who think they are so hot that they do not need to keep either the steam wand or any part of the espresso shot system clean. Instant sink shot, sometimes accompanied by a "Technicolour Ralph" to get rid of the rancid taste. Optional mouldy cheese aftertaste.

    I could go on, however you get my drift.

    These days I can train anyone interested to make a really superior cuppa on pretty basic gear (have done quite a few over the years). Baristas can even train themselves fairly quickly if they develop a taste for taint issues.

    Nothing can prevent egotistical idiots from making crap coffee from even top level gear. FWIW, one of the worst coffees I ever had was from gear worth the far side of $40K using brilliant beans from the same batch I had at home - and I made a stunner on about $1K of gear at the time. The "barista" managed 1, 2 and 4 above of my peeves in one cuppa - a true achievement worth noting.


    Enjoy your cuppa - however you like it.


    TampIt

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    Hahaha ... I realised that my earlier post did not answer the question. My earlier post answers the question "why am I possibly more likely to be disappointed if I order something from a random cafe now than if I did that years ago". That is not the question Carmen asked. The question Carmen asked is "why am I more likely to be disappointed if I order the same thing from the same cafe that I would have been years ago." In other words, Carmen's question is about variation with a given cafe, not variation across the market.

    In terms of what is more likely to cause variation in a cafe now than many years ago, two things spring to mind. First, it feels around here like the most popular grinder now is probably the Mythos. It probably used to be the Robur E. Maybe it's that the mythos sucks. I can't really remember having any coffee that was especially good from the Mythos. I got to use a mythos at MICE for three days earlier this year with the DE machine, which can graph pressure and flow rate. The graphs showed pretty clearly that my shots were very inconsistent with the Mythos unless I paid extreme attention to doing everything exactly the same and distributing the coffee. I have that same machine at home now and the graphs show that everything is pretty consistent. So maybe the mythos does suck. Lots of people like it, but I wonder how much of that is because it's easy to use, not because it lifts the quality ceiling. The other thing might be that the baristas might be lulled into a false sense of security with those grinders - you still need to keep on adjusting your grind setting, but if it's an auto dose, maybe in practice they aren't adjusting as often. Who knows.

    The other thing is that a lot of cafes are now using VST filter baskets. VSTs are generally said to require a finer grind. Finer grind settings generally result in more clumping when the grounds exit the grinder. Clumping can result in decreased quality in a few ways. First, I'm pretty sure it can result in decreased precision, since if a grinder grinds for a certain time, whether or not the last big clump falls into the basket or sticks in the throat of the grinder could make quite a big difference in the dose. Second, there's a lot of writing around to suggest that stirring away the clumps can result in better, or at least more repeatable, shots.

    But I don't think that it's likely to be any of that. I think that tasting is a skill that gets better over time. Carmen, I suspect that your palate has probably just become more sensitive over time and it might well be that you didn't notice the differences before. Or maybe it's just that the baristas genuinely are bad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen00 View Post
    I normally order a strong latte and I often get a coffee that tastes burned. Like something has gone wrong and I accidentally got old water from the drip tray!
    The foam looks separate from the rest of the coffee and is white and airy.
    I think even a type of bean that’s not my favourite could taste nice if the latte is that caramel colour with beautiful creamy dense foam.

    Often the whole thing looks grey.

    I get very excited these days when I get a good one!
    Actually there are a few possible things that it could be here, had I paid enough attention.

    The colour is probably due to the roast level. If it's grey and burnt, then it might actually be a roast problem.

    Separated foam could be due to a few things, but maybe the coffee sat for a bit before it was run out to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luca View Post
    Actually there are a few possible things that it could be here, had I paid enough attention.

    The colour is probably due to the roast level. If it's grey and burnt, then it might actually be a roast problem.

    Separated foam could be due to a few things, but maybe the coffee sat for a bit before it was run out to you.
    I know it hasn’t sat there for long as it’s take away and I can see them making it and they hand it over straight away.

    I don’t think its the beans. I think it’s either bad luck on the baristas side or bad sloppy technique. Often when I return it and ask if they can remake it, I get one that is perfect!! Only 2 minutes before I was served dishwater! So I don’t know what’s happened but it’s happening more often than I’d like.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by luca View Post
    Hahaha ... I realised that my earlier post did not answer the question. My earlier post answers the question "why am I possibly more likely to be disappointed if I order something from a random cafe now than if I did that years ago". That is not the question Carmen asked. The question Carmen asked is "why am I more likely to be disappointed if I order the same thing from the same cafe that I would have been years ago." In other words, Carmen's question is about variation with a given cafe, not variation across the market.

    In terms of what is more likely to cause variation in a cafe now than many years ago, two things spring to mind. First, it feels around here like the most popular grinder now is probably the Mythos. It probably used to be the Robur E. Maybe it's that the mythos sucks. I can't really remember having any coffee that was especially good from the Mythos. I got to use a mythos at MICE for three days earlier this year with the DE machine, which can graph pressure and flow rate. The graphs showed pretty clearly that my shots were very inconsistent with the Mythos unless I paid extreme attention to doing everything exactly the same and distributing the coffee. I have that same machine at home now and the graphs show that everything is pretty consistent. So maybe the mythos does suck. Lots of people like it, but I wonder how much of that is because it's easy to use, not because it lifts the quality ceiling. The other thing might be that the baristas might be lulled into a false sense of security with those grinders - you still need to keep on adjusting your grind setting, but if it's an auto dose, maybe in practice they aren't adjusting as often. Who knows.

    The other thing is that a lot of cafes are now using VST filter baskets. VSTs are generally said to require a finer grind. Finer grind settings generally result in more clumping when the grounds exit the grinder. Clumping can result in decreased quality in a few ways. First, I'm pretty sure it can result in decreased precision, since if a grinder grinds for a certain time, whether or not the last big clump falls into the basket or sticks in the throat of the grinder could make quite a big difference in the dose. Second, there's a lot of writing around to suggest that stirring away the clumps can result in better, or at least more repeatable, shots.

    But I don't think that it's likely to be any of that. I think that tasting is a skill that gets better over time. Carmen, I suspect that your palate has probably just become more sensitive over time and it might well be that you didn't notice the differences before. Or maybe it's just that the baristas genuinely are bad.
    Inconsistency - my take only
    - 80% cleanliness issues. Even items like cafe's Lineas need the occasional clean and produce undrinkable swill if not kept up to scratch. So the same machine at 11am may produce a far worse cuppa than at 7am if the barista is careless.
    - 15% poor technique. VSTs and quality grinders really deliver a lot more, better, clearer and cleaner flavour in the cuppa if handled well. They also punish idiots HARD (to quote a certain quiz). In my case, after nearly 40 years I had to go right back to basics and remove a lot of encrusted bad habits (VSTs) and I started with naked p/fs and good grinders at the time. Newbies can start with new everything and have no need to unlearn - much simpler for them.
    - 5% crap gear. I do not include a Mythos in my first hand experience, however a few of my mates reckon the Robur (I concur) and the Mythos destroy more coffee in cafes than anything else. I would add a particularly gutless "overpriced milk steamer" (the only portion with any grunt - and it is not helpful power) starting with "W" as an espresso machine I would bin on first sight if a cafe owner asked me to sort their setup out. Only for the desperate, and only for really dark roasts and even then they struggle. Note: I only setup cafes for friends these days - and they would not dare to buy a "W" in the first place as they know I would just say "They must be dreamin" and walk out immediately.

    So now Carmen has two slightly different takes as to why there is so much crap coffee floating around in cafes these days.

    Hope this helps.


    TampIt
    PS This was posted while I wrote the above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen00 View Post
    I know it hasnít sat there for long as itís take away and I can see them making it and they hand it over straight away.

    I donít think its the beans. I think itís either bad luck on the baristas side or bad sloppy technique. Often when I return it and ask if they can remake it, I get one that is perfect!! Only 2 minutes before I was served dishwater! So I donít know whatís happened but itís happening more often than Iíd like.
    Bad technique, or the "cost saving measure" I saw yesterday. They pulled two consecutive shots out of the same puck! The second one would be dishwater (almost literally). Luckily I was only there for a meal, as I would never drink their coffee simply based on the smell near the machine - stale beans (no wonder), far too much grind retention (my least favourite grinder as a number of CS'r's know - starting with "R") plus a wonderful filthy oily "aroma" coming from the machine, add scalded milk... I could go on. Mind you, their first shot of the day could be OK, they really do not have to scald the milk and flushing a group out every day or so would help.
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    Now working as a barista again I have noticed a particular phenomena occurring at work. The shots in early morning are just delicious, and pour exceptionally well. As the morning goes, and tasting as I go hehe, the shots don't pour as well and start tasting not as great. Definitely blonde alot earlier.

    Was puzzled at this, and I am pretty meticulous with coffee! As shots naturally run faster as the day progresses I up the dose bit by bit until it reaches a certain volume limit then fine up the grind a bit and drop the dose to keep it pouring consistently. Always weigh doses and time the shots too when it appears something is out.

    Was scratching my head, but I've come to some possibilities. We use a doser grinder (absolutely not ideal, and we're getting an electronic doserless soon), in which I've noticed all the different locations and 'sticking points' are within the dosing chamber. Grounds get stuck all over the shop, so chances are that the more shots are being pulled, more grounds are building up in places, going a little stale from sitting there, and mixing in with the fresh ground lots as we go.

    So I think this may be it, along with cleanliness of the machine and portafilter as I go. I was already on top of cleaning, but now making an extra concerted effort to clean the shower screen and run blank shots of hot water through the portafilter to get residual oils out of there.

    So unsure as to the issue with the OP's cafe of choice, but it's possible these are a factor. Either that or not paying enough attention to consistent doses, or lazy distribution and tamping.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luca View Post
    I can't really remember having any coffee that was especially good from the Mythos. I got to use a mythos at MICE for three days earlier this year with the DE machine, which can graph pressure and flow rate. The graphs showed pretty clearly that my shots were very inconsistent with the Mythos unless I paid extreme attention to doing everything exactly the same and distributing the coffee. I have that same machine at home now and the graphs show that everything is pretty consistent. So maybe the mythos does suck. Lots of people like it, but I wonder how much of that is because it's easy to use, not because it lifts the quality ceiling. The other thing might be that the baristas might be lulled into a false sense of security with those grinders - you still need to keep on adjusting your grind setting, but if it's an auto dose, maybe in practice they aren't adjusting as often. Who knows.

    Clumping can result in decreased quality in a few ways. First, I'm pretty sure it can result in decreased precision, since if a grinder grinds for a certain time, whether or not the last big clump falls into the basket or sticks in the throat of the grinder could make quite a big difference in the dose.
    The Mythos in particular (or more specifically the Mythos One, as it a common grinder in lots of cafes now - the original Mythos is not seen much anymore outside McCafes) has a 'clump crusher' in the outlet chute which has 3 plastic fingers that control static buildup/break up clumps and regulates the output of grounds so that in theory the exact same volume comes out each time. They do wear out (or get mangled by baristas sticking objects up the outlet chute to clean it) and need to be regularly replaced, but are fiddly to install correctly. Often they are replaced too infrequently, or the baristas request a stock of spares so they can replace them themselves between scheduled services, but fit them incorrectly so they don't properly control the flow of grounds to ensure consistent doses.

    Robur Electronics tend to suffer from erratic dose volumes due to static buildup inside the doser funnel, or as a result of baristas damaging/removing/modifying the wire grid in the outlet chute as a response to something getting stuck in there.

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    in my area of queensland, the weather is all over the place and i notice the machines at a lot of places are really exposed. i don't know how the baristas manage to stay on top of it tbh. I'm using a similar grinder to them at home (robur e, looking to downsize soon) and i'm getting loads of static/clumping and i'm pretty sure uneven grind. i've tried many different dosing and distro methods and nothing totally mitigates it, at the very least it takes a bit of time. i'm guessing the cafes are dosing a fair bit more coffee than i am and can go a bit courser.

    Having said all that i think the standard is good and better than the past. i don't go looking for bad, the worst i've experienced recently is scalded milk.

    Quote Originally Posted by MorganGT View Post
    Robur Electronics tend to suffer from erratic dose volumes due to static buildup inside the doser funnel, or as a result of baristas damaging/removing/modifying the wire grid in the outlet chute as a response to something getting stuck in there.
    do you find the manual dose mazzers to be better on static and clumping?

  14. #14
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    It's bad baristas and stale coffee beans mostly. I wouldn't hide behind humidity as an excuse, as most of these places have air conditioning.
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    I feel its more my expectrations increase with time.
    Until you try better, you accept what you have a good, once you try better the other is no longer good.
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    Like restaurants, I find there are usually only ever a few really good places in town and over time, their fortunes wax and wane with new owners, new staff, new gear and sometimes a change in bean supplier.
    One place was top-of-the-tree and the new owners (who thought they knew cafe because they had owned a pet-food shop - go figure) ruined it overnight by applying pet-shop mentality to a Cafe.
    Another place has a 'Slayer' and a talented Barista and gets results from their bean that I couldn't replicate at home when I had a go.
    There are a lot of places I simply won't even walk in to because I know they use cheap and nasty commercial beans. People who know me always let me choose the cafe.
    You got to pick your battles. There will always be the bulk of average/crap places because a lot of patrons are totally undiscriminating.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen00 View Post
    I know it hasn’t sat there for long as it’s take away and I can see them making it and they hand it over straight away.

    I don’t think its the beans. I think it’s either bad luck on the baristas side or bad sloppy technique. Often when I return it and ask if they can remake it, I get one that is perfect!! Only 2 minutes before I was served dishwater! So I don’t know what’s happened but it’s happening more often than I’d like.
    Consistency is key and in my opinion it is where so many cafes go wrong! If you bake a cake you don't just guess the ingredients ratio and the same goes for coffee. Current coffee training practise is two implement a recipe and a process eg. 20g dose, 40g yield in 27 to 30 seconds. The process refers to the steps taken eg. knock out puck, flush group head, wipe portafilter, weigh handle and coffee, tamp, lock in and immediately start shot and so on. If everyone is trained in the same steps and management ensures that all baristas implement them then you have coffee being made consistently. It is all in the training and the implementation.

    Consistency is also often missing from roasting. Consistent selection and purchasing of green beans, roasting to roast profiles that are graphed and measured, cupping every coffee etc.
    kelvin8r and Dalby like this.



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